This should be a good discussion...
"Keep the blood healthy and you'll build the most quality muscle. Dr. Young has discovered that many bodybuilders are the most unhealthy athletes in the world due to excess lactic acid buildup and over-consumption of protein."
http://articlesofhealth.blogspot.com...t-protein.html
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01-31-2013, 07:00 AM #1
You Build Muscle with Blood NOT Protein!
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01-31-2013, 07:07 AM #2
brb; making myself a tinfoil hat.
No brain, no gain.
"The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon
Where the mind goes, the body follows.
Ironwill Gym:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=629719403&postcount=3388
Ironwill2008 Journal:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=157459343&p=1145168733
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01-31-2013, 07:14 AM #3
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01-31-2013, 10:49 AM #4
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01-31-2013, 11:08 AM #5
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01-31-2013, 11:23 AM #6
Am curious if this guy's one of the contributors in the Is it just maths???? thread.
Inactivity Kills!!!
My journal: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=140991491 Age is NOT an acceptable excuse.
Played with dinosaurs as a child. Back then everyone was thin; it was a matter of out-running the raptors or being one of their meals.
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01-31-2013, 12:28 PM #7No brain, no gain.
"The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon
Where the mind goes, the body follows.
Ironwill Gym:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=629719403&postcount=3388
Ironwill2008 Journal:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=157459343&p=1145168733
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01-31-2013, 12:30 PM #8
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01-31-2013, 12:34 PM #9
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01-31-2013, 12:41 PM #10
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01-31-2013, 01:40 PM #11
What about eating lot's of bull's testicles? Same type of thing. Also, typical alkaline mumbo-jumbo. Lack of understanding of the body's self-buffering process. He also might be a "Body Ecology" nutjob as well....
Last edited by KLMARB; 01-31-2013 at 01:45 PM.
I'll take arrogance and the inevitable hubris over self-doubt and lack of confidence, anyday.......
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01-31-2013, 01:46 PM #12
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01-31-2013, 02:19 PM #13
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02-01-2013, 03:28 AM #14
- Join Date: Jan 2013
- Location: Guildford, Surrey, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
- Age: 48
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"All foods are electron-based, thus the frequencial congruence of living, raw foods are synonymous to that of human biology, as has been proven by Dr. Robert Young. We do not run on calories, but rather electrons if we delve further down into the quantum realm. This as well as been shown by Dr. Young via ultra dark and light field microscopy."
Oh lord please stop. It is making my sides hurt.
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02-01-2013, 03:50 AM #15
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02-01-2013, 05:10 AM #16
- Join Date: Jan 2004
- Location: Connecticut, United States
- Age: 73
- Posts: 12,657
- Rep Power: 50533
well, if we can get back to the serious side, and maybe turn this thread into something positive, it should be noted that the Blood, obviously , is important, but in an INDIRECT WAY, in the sense that it's function, of course, is to CARRY the important constituents of what we need to build muscle.
in addition to that, how well it ESTABLISHS PATHWAYS into the muscle, is equally important....
this is why, cardio, and leg work helps , not hinders, development of the rest of the body, because it boosts the circulatory system, which , as I said, must reach and infuse new muscle tissue in order for it to grow.Lift as MUCH as you can, for as MANY reps as you can,
while in complete control of the exercise.
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02-01-2013, 07:04 AM #17
Erm... Um...
OK, I give up. Must post.
The human body is not the HADRON collider. I can't change the rate of ionization of, say calcium. What I can do is make sure that calcium is present so that it can do it's job. I can make sure phosphates are present. I can make sure iron, vitamins, fats, minerals, etc are present and available. That's all I can influence.
The amazing thing is that I can ensure my body has the necessary parts to do it's job by.....
Wait for it.....
Eating a balanced diet.
Now, back to the article. The condition to which our erudite PROFEZZOR is referring to is called "Acidosis". Taken from NIH:
Metabolic acidosis develops when too much acid is produced or the kidneys cannot remove enough acid from the body. There are several types of metabolic acidosis:
Diabetic acidosis (also called diabetic ketoacidosis and DKA) develops when substances called ketone bodies (which are acidic) build up during uncontrolled diabetes.
Hyperchloremic acidosis is caused by the loss of too much sodium bicarbonate from the body, which can happen with severe diarrhea.
Lactic acidosis is a buildup of lactic acid. This can be caused by:
Alcohol
Cancer
Exercising vigorously for a very long time
Liver failure
Low blood sugar (hypoglycemia)
Medications such as salicylates
MELAS (a rare genetic disorder that affects energy production)
Prolonged lack of oxygen from shock, heart failure, or severe anemia
Seizures
Other causes of metabolic acidosis include:
Kidney disease (distal renal tubular acidosis and proximal renal tubular acidosis)
Poisoning by aspirin, ethylene glycol (found in antifreeze), or methanol
Severe dehydration
Interestingly, here's a study claiming that high levels of protein do NOT benefit muscoprotein anabolism.
An increase of daily protein intake from 1.35 to 2.62 g · kg−1 for 1 mon in the habitual diet (170 kJ · kg−1 · d−1) while performing daily weight training did not affect either strength or muscle mass (Lemon et al. 1992). Also the response of protein turnover to exercise (4 h at 40% VO2 max.) was independent of dietary protein intake (0.9 or 2.5 g · kg−1 · d−1) from isoenergetic diets (Carraro et al. 1990). High-protein meals did not enhance the stimulation of myofibrillar synthesis induced by resistance exercise in muscle of elderly men and women (Welle and Thornton 1998). Daily physical exercise of increasing intensity at neutral energy balance (constant protein intake 0.57 g · kg−1 · d−1) maintained body protein by an improvement of N utilization (Butterfield and Calloway 1984). This suggests that physical activity has a positive effect on N retention even at a low level of protein intake, provided energy balance is achieved. Millward et al. (1994) stated that, “training and energy intake depress protein needs and habitual protein intake elevates protein needs.” In conclusion, the literature provides no evidence that protein nutriture and physical performance are improved by high-protein diets, the more so as Garlick et al. (1999) considered that there are currently no methods sensitive enough to detect whether high-protein intake results in a long-term increase in functional lean tissue.
Other studies (more recent) support this in a recommended 25-30g protein / meal 3x daily for maximal protein uptake. Studies appear to encompass elderly, infants, trained, untrained, and are relatively consistent.
So, if high protein diets lead to acidosis, what's the consequence?
The metabolism and performance of a perfused rat hindquarter preparation was examined during heavy exercise in three conditions: control (C), metabolic acidosis (MA, decreased bicarbonate concentration), and respiratory acidosis (RA, increased CO2 tension). A one-pass system was used to perfuse the hindquarters for 30 min at rest and 20 min during tetanic stimulation via the sciatic nerve. The isometric tension generated by the gastrocnemius-plantaris-soleus muscle group was recorded, and biopsies were taken pre- and postperfusion. Initial isometric tensions were similar in all conditions, but the rate of tension decay was largest in acidosis; the 5-min tensions for C, MA, and RA were 1,835 +/- 63, 1,534 +/- 63, and 1,434 +/- 73 g, respectively. O2 uptake in C was greater than in MA and RA (23.4 +/- 1.3 vs. 17.0 +/- 1.4 and 16.5 +/- 2.3 mumol X min-1), paralleling the tension findings. Hindquarter lactate release was greatest in C, least in MA, and intermediate in RA. Acidosis resulted in less muscle glycogen utilization and lactate accumulation than during control. Muscle creatine phosphate utilization and ATP levels were unaffected by acidosis. Acidosis decreased the muscle's ability to generate isometric tension and depressed both aerobic and anaerobic metabolism. During stimulation in this model lactate left the muscle mainly as a function of the production rate, although a low plasma bicarbonate concentration at pH 7.15 depressed muscle lactate release.
cliffs: 1g protein / lb of body may not be necessary.B: 285
S: 375
D: 555
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02-01-2013, 08:08 AM #18
While everything is relative, your "cliffs" don't coincide with current recommendations of USDA and WHO guidelines, nor with recommendations of several medical associations and foundations. Without citing an extensive list recent publications and specific guidelines, those interested can peruse the following site:
http://www.fao.org/docrep/MEETING/00...E/M3011E00.HTM
While decades old, information from that meeting, served as an initial basis for many of the current guidelines.
Also, I feel that we're neglecting the importance of nitrogen balance and free radicals in the process of aging. With regard to the latter:
J Am Coll Nutr. 2004 Dec;23(6 Suppl):627S-630S.
Protein and older adults. Chernoff R. Geriatric Research Education and Clinical Center, Central Arkansas Veterans Healthcare System, Little Rock, USA. chernoffronni@uams.edu
Abstract: Body composition changes as people get older. One of the noteworthy alterations is the reduction in total body protein. A decrease in skeletal muscle is the most noticeable manifestation of this change but there is also a reduction in other physiologic proteins such as organ tissue, blood components, and immune bodies as well as declines in total body potassium and water. This contributes to impaired wound healing, loss of skin elasticity, and an inability to fight infection. The recommended dietary allowance (RDA) for adults for protein is 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight. Protein tissue accounts for 30% of whole-body protein turnover but that rate declines to 20% or less by age 70. The result of this phenomenon is that older adults require more protein/kilogram body weight than do younger adults. Recently, it has become clear that the requirement for exogenous protein is at least 1.0 gram/kilogram body weight. Adequate dietary intake of protein may be more difficult for older adults to obtain. Dietary animal protein is the primary source of high biological value protein, iron, vitamin B(12), folic acid, biotin and other essential nutrients. In fact, egg protein is the standard against which all other proteins are compared. Compared to other high-quality protein sources like meat, poultry and seafood, eggs are the least expensive. The importance of dietary protein cannot be underestimated in the diets of older adults; inadequate protein intake contributes to a decrease in reserve capacity, increased skin fragility, decreased immune function, poorer healing, and longer recuperation from illness.Inactivity Kills!!!
My journal: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=140991491 Age is NOT an acceptable excuse.
Played with dinosaurs as a child. Back then everyone was thin; it was a matter of out-running the raptors or being one of their meals.
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02-01-2013, 09:34 AM #19
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02-01-2013, 09:45 AM #20No brain, no gain.
"The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon
Where the mind goes, the body follows.
Ironwill Gym:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=629719403&postcount=3388
Ironwill2008 Journal:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=157459343&p=1145168733
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02-01-2013, 10:14 AM #21
In lieu of a B & B pic, how about IceCream Fitness' vid from yesterday on Deer Antler extract (not sure if we can discuss that supplement here) and Lewis (since the SB is this weekend):
Inactivity Kills!!!
My journal: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=140991491 Age is NOT an acceptable excuse.
Played with dinosaurs as a child. Back then everyone was thin; it was a matter of out-running the raptors or being one of their meals.
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02-01-2013, 11:14 AM #22
From table, end of study.
Age. Cal. Pro. %
Coal miners 36 4030 121 12.0 1.84
Anecdotal but FWIW these guys knew how to eat. I'd more closely mirror a coal miner than an elderly Scottish housewife. JMO. Interesting that most of the Scott's fell into the prescribed protein minimum guideline of 12-14% of total energy consumption across age groups as well as in target age groups.
The Scottish diet for muscle mastery. Hmmm I sense YouTube channel potential. Sorry, back to green blood.The most important aspect of weight training; whether for the athlete, bodybuilder, or average person is to better ones health and ability without injury. - Bill Pearl
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02-04-2013, 07:51 AM #23
Is it just me or did you want to punch that retard in the face the entire time he was talking?? Uh, yea. Nice studio to shoot your highly informative video in... IceCreamFitness=BroScience -1,000
"Turn off that damn camera and clean up your stuffed animals Jimmy!"
"Awe MOM! Not now, I'm in the middle of something!!"Luceo non uro - "I shine not burn"
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02-05-2013, 05:18 AM #24
- Join Date: Aug 2011
- Location: Georgia, United States
- Age: 47
- Posts: 104
- Rep Power: 453
Layne Norton's last podcast on iTunes, (search muscle college) is absolutely brilliant and talks about muscle protein synthesis. Its about 45 mins long, but worth the time.
Coached by: Paul Revelia/ www.prophysique.com
Showing up is NOT half the battle, that is what losers tell themselves as an excuse not to go hard ~ Layne Norton
"Dost thou even hoist?"
Follow my PHAT Training log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=151444753&p=1016799283#post1016799283
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02-05-2013, 07:20 AM #25
There is a newer study that says the same as the abstract you posted. There certainly definitely is proof that more is better for older adults. One thing I had to watch for with the studies is sometimes it's relative to lbs, sometimes kilograms. The last study I saw recommended 50+ to get 30grams of protein / meal.
While the blog is poorly constructed, in a way, the premise is right. Shifting of electrons is why chemical structures change. That said, to think that a person can empirically pinpoint the exact ratio for maximal homeostasis so that all chemical conversions occur with no-excess and no imbalances is absurd. The acidosis he refers to really truly is only something a person with damaged kidneys should worry about.
The body's an amazing thing and from what I've seen will almost always rise up to the challenge. Too much protein, OK, it'll piss it out. Too little, well, your gains won't be as much as they might have been.
Truth is, as fascinating as biochem is to me, it's really irrelevant. From tracking my intake, for me, my stall point on protein is around 120grams. Less than that, nothing seems to happen strength / weight wise. When I'm over 200grams, I'm typically high calorically, so am I adding muscle, fat, or what combination thereof?
Taking a utilitarian view of the said article, it has nothing of value in it with which I can apply to eating healthier or to training better.B: 285
S: 375
D: 555
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02-05-2013, 07:34 AM #26
- Join Date: Mar 2012
- Location: Michigan, United States
- Age: 43
- Posts: 599
- Rep Power: 632
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02-05-2013, 03:30 PM #27
- Join Date: Aug 2011
- Location: Georgia, United States
- Age: 47
- Posts: 104
- Rep Power: 453
Here is the link to Layne's podcast: http://rxmuscle.com/2013-01-11-01-57...l#.URExZL0qaSq
Coached by: Paul Revelia/ www.prophysique.com
Showing up is NOT half the battle, that is what losers tell themselves as an excuse not to go hard ~ Layne Norton
"Dost thou even hoist?"
Follow my PHAT Training log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=151444753&p=1016799283#post1016799283
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