You Build Muscle with Blood NOT Protein!

[highiso]

This should be a good discussion...

"Keep the blood healthy and you'll build the most quality muscle. Dr. Young has discovered that many bodybuilders are the most unhealthy athletes in the world due to excess lactic acid buildup and over-consumption of protein."

http://articlesofhealth.blogspot.com...t-protein.html

[ironwill2008]

brb; making myself a tinfoil hat.

[Getsum]

brb; making myself a tinfoil hat.

Good idea!

[Jibbo]

Not much to say on that, looks like an article from the Broscience Dept. , not much fact or proof of anything in the article.

[m314]

I thought this was going to be about that spray-dried plasma protein powder. I still haven't tried that one.

[HoustonTXMuscle]

Am curious if this guy's one of the contributors in the Is it just maths???? thread.

[ironwill2008]

Am curious if this guy's one of the contributors in the Is it just maths???? thread.

lol

[highiso]

Am curious if this guy's one of the contributors in the Is it just maths???? thread.

I clicked that thread and clicked right back out.

[ArchAngel'73]

If that Dr. did things our way for a it...
he might not look like a skinny emaciated twink and he might also learn that lactic acid lasts for a few minutes at best.

[azeeb]

If that Dr. did things our way for a it...
he might not look like a skinny emaciated twink and he might also learn that lactic acid lasts for a few minutes at best.

That "Dr." got his degree from Clayton College of Natural Health, an online "university" with no accreditation from anywhere.

[KLMARB]

What about eating lot's of bull's testicles? Same type of thing. Also, typical alkaline mumbo-jumbo. Lack of understanding of the body's self-buffering process. He also might be a "Body Ecology" nutjob as well....

[ljimd]

What about eating lot's of bull's testicles?

Did that in the early 80's. It was called Testanome. When you started to sweat in the gym the guys would back away from you and say "you smell like cowshyt", and they were right.

[KLMARB]

Did that in the early 80's. It was called Testanome. When you started to sweat in the gym the guys would back away from you and say "you smell like cowshyt", and they were right.

You were supposed to follow it up with "Waxy Maize".....

[Flounderbout]

"All foods are electron-based, thus the frequencial congruence of living, raw foods are synonymous to that of human biology, as has been proven by Dr. Robert Young. We do not run on calories, but rather electrons if we delve further down into the quantum realm. This as well as been shown by Dr. Young via ultra dark and light field microscopy."

Oh lord please stop. It is making my sides hurt.

[acrawlingchaos]

That "Dr." got his degree from Clayton College of Natural Health, an online "university" with no accreditation from anywhere.

And it appears that he is using JasonDBs channel "Ice Cream Fitness" as a primary source.

[JOHN GARGANI]

well, if we can get back to the serious side, and maybe turn this thread into something positive, it should be noted that the Blood, obviously , is important, but in an INDIRECT WAY, in the sense that it's function, of course, is to CARRY the important constituents of what we need to build muscle.

in addition to that, how well it ESTABLISHS PATHWAYS into the muscle, is equally important....

this is why, cardio, and leg work helps , not hinders, development of the rest of the body, because it boosts the circulatory system, which , as I said, must reach and infuse new muscle tissue in order for it to grow.

[drudixon]

Erm... Um...

OK, I give up. Must post.

The human body is not the HADRON collider. I can't change the rate of ionization of, say calcium. What I can do is make sure that calcium is present so that it can do it's job. I can make sure phosphates are present. I can make sure iron, vitamins, fats, minerals, etc are present and available. That's all I can influence.

The amazing thing is that I can ensure my body has the necessary parts to do it's job by.....


Wait for it.....


Eating a balanced diet.

Now, back to the article. The condition to which our erudite PROFEZZOR is referring to is called "Acidosis". Taken from NIH:

Metabolic acidosis develops when too much acid is produced or the kidneys cannot remove enough acid from the body. There are several types of metabolic acidosis:

Diabetic acidosis (also called diabetic ketoacidosis and DKA) develops when substances called ketone bodies (which are acidic) build up during uncontrolled diabetes.

Hyperchloremic acidosis is caused by the loss of too much sodium bicarbonate from the body, which can happen with severe diarrhea.

Lactic acidosis is a buildup of lactic acid. This can be caused by:

Alcohol

Cancer

Exercising vigorously for a very long time

Liver failure

Low blood sugar (hypoglycemia)

Medications such as salicylates

MELAS (a rare genetic disorder that affects energy production)

Prolonged lack of oxygen from shock, heart failure, or severe anemia

Seizures

Other causes of metabolic acidosis include:

Kidney disease (distal renal tubular acidosis and proximal renal tubular acidosis)

Poisoning by aspirin, ethylene glycol (found in antifreeze), or methanol

Severe dehydration

Looking in different studies, low level acidosis does increase directly with protein consumption.

Interestingly, here's a study claiming that high levels of protein do NOT benefit muscoprotein anabolism.

An increase of daily protein intake from 1.35 to 2.62 g · kg−1 for 1 mon in the habitual diet (170 kJ · kg−1 · d−1) while performing daily weight training did not affect either strength or muscle mass (Lemon et al. 1992). Also the response of protein turnover to exercise (4 h at 40% VO2 max.) was independent of dietary protein intake (0.9 or 2.5 g · kg−1 · d−1) from isoenergetic diets (Carraro et al. 1990). High-protein meals did not enhance the stimulation of myofibrillar synthesis induced by resistance exercise in muscle of elderly men and women (Welle and Thornton 1998). Daily physical exercise of increasing intensity at neutral energy balance (constant protein intake 0.57 g · kg−1 · d−1) maintained body protein by an improvement of N utilization (Butterfield and Calloway 1984). This suggests that physical activity has a positive effect on N retention even at a low level of protein intake, provided energy balance is achieved. Millward et al. (1994) stated that, “training and energy intake depress protein needs and habitual protein intake elevates protein needs.” In conclusion, the literature provides no evidence that protein nutriture and physical performance are improved by high-protein diets, the more so as Garlick et al. (1999) considered that there are currently no methods sensitive enough to detect whether high-protein intake results in a long-term increase in functional lean tissue.

Summary of above. Calorie neutral. .6gm / kg or, .28gm / lb.

Other studies (more recent) support this in a recommended 25-30g protein / meal 3x daily for maximal protein uptake. Studies appear to encompass elderly, infants, trained, untrained, and are relatively consistent.

So, if high protein diets lead to acidosis, what's the consequence?

The metabolism and performance of a perfused rat hindquarter preparation was examined during heavy exercise in three conditions: control (C), metabolic acidosis (MA, decreased bicarbonate concentration), and respiratory acidosis (RA, increased CO2 tension). A one-pass system was used to perfuse the hindquarters for 30 min at rest and 20 min during tetanic stimulation via the sciatic nerve. The isometric tension generated by the gastrocnemius-plantaris-soleus muscle group was recorded, and biopsies were taken pre- and postperfusion. Initial isometric tensions were similar in all conditions, but the rate of tension decay was largest in acidosis; the 5-min tensions for C, MA, and RA were 1,835 +/- 63, 1,534 +/- 63, and 1,434 +/- 73 g, respectively. O2 uptake in C was greater than in MA and RA (23.4 +/- 1.3 vs. 17.0 +/- 1.4 and 16.5 +/- 2.3 mumol X min-1), paralleling the tension findings. Hindquarter lactate release was greatest in C, least in MA, and intermediate in RA. Acidosis resulted in less muscle glycogen utilization and lactate accumulation than during control. Muscle creatine phosphate utilization and ATP levels were unaffected by acidosis. Acidosis decreased the muscle's ability to generate isometric tension and depressed both aerobic and anaerobic metabolism. During stimulation in this model lactate left the muscle mainly as a function of the production rate, although a low plasma bicarbonate concentration at pH 7.15 depressed muscle lactate release.

Now, interestingly, one study notes low mitochondiral count / efficiency to acidosis, meaning, not enough metabolic throughput to convert ATP relative to work demands. The higher the metabolic efficiency of mitochondria, the greater the ATP turnover, and the less likely acidosis is to occur. So, the means that at equal LBM, a trained invidual is less likely to incur acidosis than an untrained individual. Furthermore it stands to reason, that the grams of protein / lb of LBM can be higher before contributing to acidosis. Can it be 1g / lb of LBM, possibly, but it doesn't seem necessary, and that potentially, high protein diets are more detrimental to hypertrophy than strength.

cliffs: 1g protein / lb of body may not be necessary.

[HoustonTXMuscle]

Erm... Um...

OK, I give up. Must post.......

cliffs: 1g protein / lb of body may not be necessary.

While everything is relative, your "cliffs" don't coincide with current recommendations of USDA and WHO guidelines, nor with recommendations of several medical associations and foundations. Without citing an extensive list recent publications and specific guidelines, those interested can peruse the following site:

http://www.fao.org/docrep/MEETING/00...E/M3011E00.HTM

While decades old, information from that meeting, served as an initial basis for many of the current guidelines.

Also, I feel that we're neglecting the importance of nitrogen balance and free radicals in the process of aging. With regard to the latter:

J Am Coll Nutr. 2004 Dec;23(6 Suppl):627S-630S.
Protein and older adults. Chernoff R. Geriatric Research Education and Clinical Center, Central Arkansas Veterans Healthcare System, Little Rock, USA. chernoffronni@uams.edu
Abstract: Body composition changes as people get older. One of the noteworthy alterations is the reduction in total body protein. A decrease in skeletal muscle is the most noticeable manifestation of this change but there is also a reduction in other physiologic proteins such as organ tissue, blood components, and immune bodies as well as declines in total body potassium and water. This contributes to impaired wound healing, loss of skin elasticity, and an inability to fight infection. The recommended dietary allowance (RDA) for adults for protein is 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight. Protein tissue accounts for 30% of whole-body protein turnover but that rate declines to 20% or less by age 70. The result of this phenomenon is that older adults require more protein/kilogram body weight than do younger adults. Recently, it has become clear that the requirement for exogenous protein is at least 1.0 gram/kilogram body weight. Adequate dietary intake of protein may be more difficult for older adults to obtain. Dietary animal protein is the primary source of high biological value protein, iron, vitamin B(12), folic acid, biotin and other essential nutrients. In fact, egg protein is the standard against which all other proteins are compared. Compared to other high-quality protein sources like meat, poultry and seafood, eggs are the least expensive. The importance of dietary protein cannot be underestimated in the diets of older adults; inadequate protein intake contributes to a decrease in reserve capacity, increased skin fragility, decreased immune function, poorer healing, and longer recuperation from illness.

[AAOBob]

Oh god that blog is painfully stupid.

[ironwill2008]

Oh god that blog is painfully stupid.

At the bottom of the page, I was expecting a pic of Beavis and Butthead.

[HoustonTXMuscle]

In lieu of a B & B pic, how about IceCream Fitness' vid from yesterday on Deer Antler extract (not sure if we can discuss that supplement here) and Lewis (since the SB is this weekend):

[EjnarKolinkar]

http://www.fao.org/docrep/MEETING/00...E/M3011E00.HTM

From table, end of study.
Age. Cal. Pro. %
Coal miners 36 4030 121 12.0 1.84

Anecdotal but FWIW these guys knew how to eat. I'd more closely mirror a coal miner than an elderly Scottish housewife. JMO. Interesting that most of the Scott's fell into the prescribed protein minimum guideline of 12-14% of total energy consumption across age groups as well as in target age groups.

The Scottish diet for muscle mastery. Hmmm I sense YouTube channel potential. Sorry, back to green blood.

[DesertDude11]

In lieu of a B & B pic, how about IceCream Fitness' vid from yesterday on Deer Antler extract (not sure if we can discuss that supplement here) and Lewis (since the SB is this weekend):

Is it just me or did you want to punch that retard in the face the entire time he was talking?? Uh, yea. Nice studio to shoot your highly informative video in... IceCreamFitness=BroScience -1,000

"Turn off that damn camera and clean up your stuffed animals Jimmy!"

"Awe MOM! Not now, I'm in the middle of something!!"

[clapp22]

Layne Norton's last podcast on iTunes, (search muscle college) is absolutely brilliant and talks about muscle protein synthesis. Its about 45 mins long, but worth the time.

[drudixon]

While everything is relative, your "cliffs" don't coincide with current recommendations of USDA and WHO guidelines, nor with recommendations of several medical associations and foundations. Without citing an extensive list recent publications and specific guidelines, those interested can peruse the following site:

http://www.fao.org/docrep/MEETING/00...E/M3011E00.HTM

While decades old, information from that meeting, served as an initial basis for many of the current guidelines.

Also, I feel that we're neglecting the importance of nitrogen balance and free radicals in the process of aging. With regard to the latter:

J Am Coll Nutr. 2004 Dec;23(6 Suppl):627S-630S.
Protein and older adults. Chernoff R. Geriatric Research Education and Clinical Center, Central Arkansas Veterans Healthcare System, Little Rock, USA. chernoffronni@uams.edu
Abstract: Body composition changes as people get older. One of the noteworthy alterations is the reduction in total body protein. A decrease in skeletal muscle is the most noticeable manifestation of this change but there is also a reduction in other physiologic proteins such as organ tissue, blood components, and immune bodies as well as declines in total body potassium and water. This contributes to impaired wound healing, loss of skin elasticity, and an inability to fight infection. The recommended dietary allowance (RDA) for adults for protein is 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight. Protein tissue accounts for 30% of whole-body protein turnover but that rate declines to 20% or less by age 70. The result of this phenomenon is that older adults require more protein/kilogram body weight than do younger adults. Recently, it has become clear that the requirement for exogenous protein is at least 1.0 gram/kilogram body weight. Adequate dietary intake of protein may be more difficult for older adults to obtain. Dietary animal protein is the primary source of high biological value protein, iron, vitamin B(12), folic acid, biotin and other essential nutrients. In fact, egg protein is the standard against which all other proteins are compared. Compared to other high-quality protein sources like meat, poultry and seafood, eggs are the least expensive. The importance of dietary protein cannot be underestimated in the diets of older adults; inadequate protein intake contributes to a decrease in reserve capacity, increased skin fragility, decreased immune function, poorer healing, and longer recuperation from illness.

There is a newer study that says the same as the abstract you posted. There certainly definitely is proof that more is better for older adults. One thing I had to watch for with the studies is sometimes it's relative to lbs, sometimes kilograms. The last study I saw recommended 50+ to get 30grams of protein / meal.

While the blog is poorly constructed, in a way, the premise is right. Shifting of electrons is why chemical structures change. That said, to think that a person can empirically pinpoint the exact ratio for maximal homeostasis so that all chemical conversions occur with no-excess and no imbalances is absurd. The acidosis he refers to really truly is only something a person with damaged kidneys should worry about.

The body's an amazing thing and from what I've seen will almost always rise up to the challenge. Too much protein, OK, it'll piss it out. Too little, well, your gains won't be as much as they might have been.

Truth is, as fascinating as biochem is to me, it's really irrelevant. From tracking my intake, for me, my stall point on protein is around 120grams. Less than that, nothing seems to happen strength / weight wise. When I'm over 200grams, I'm typically high calorically, so am I adding muscle, fat, or what combination thereof?

Taking a utilitarian view of the said article, it has nothing of value in it with which I can apply to eating healthier or to training better.

[azeeb]

There is a newer study that says the same as the abstract you posted. There certainly definitely is proof that more is better for older adults. One thing I had to watch for with the studies is sometimes it's relative to lbs, sometimes kilograms. The last study I saw recommended 50+ to get 30grams of protein / meal.

Unless I am misinterpreting, your original statement was that 1 gram/lb may not be necessary.

HoustonTXMuscle post said 1 gram/kg is the requirement.

There is a lot of room between 1 g/lb and 1g/kg for both to be correct.

I agree, it gets confusing when the units are never the same.

[clapp22]

Layne Norton's last podcast on iTunes, (search muscle college) is absolutely brilliant and talks about muscle protein synthesis. Its about 45 mins long, but worth the time.

Here is the link to Layne's podcast: http://rxmuscle.com/2013-01-11-01-57...l#.URExZL0qaSq