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  1. #31
    Registered User m314's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by eomrat View Post
    You have no idea where my anger comes from, and you have no idea what counts to me.
    You have no idea what counts to me either, but you went off on a rant about "people like me". Did you get that angry when Donald Rumsfeld admitted they were wrong about the WMDs? Were you even paying attention? I served in the Army too, so I don't want to see American soldiers dying over a series of lies and mistakes.

    I was just trying to make the point that people shouldn't believe everything they read or see in the media. People shut off their critical thinking abilities when they read stories about Koreans eating their children or evil dictators developing weapons that will kill us.
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  2. #32
    ╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮ acrawlingchaos's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by eomrat View Post
    You have no idea where my anger comes from, and you have no idea what counts to me.
    Than explain instead of resorting to posting gore. I've seen enough that sh*t myself without you having to post it to be a sensationalist drama queen. WTF is wrong with you?

    Originally Posted by so-tex View Post
    Nobody does with what you have gone through, and frankly, it is no damn business but your own. Peace to you friend.
    Sure, but instead of coming undone at the hinges, maybe "talking" would be a good alternative.

    Originally Posted by Trinity1216 View Post
    Unless someone has walked a mile in your shoes, and seen the things you have seen and done they can never comprehend the depth of your feelings and your point of view.
    I don't have to understand HIS views to understand what it's like to be passionate about something.

    It's easy for people who have not served to believe the propaganda and lies that are fed to us. I am not in any shape way or form defending their opinions, on the contrary.
    American soldiers are consistently feed propaganda. Those at the top feed it to those below. Civilians are not the only ones subject to lies and outright bullsh*ttery.

    Thank you for all you and our military men and women do everyday. If it wasn't for you guys people would not have the freedoms to express their opinions so freely.
    ...Thanks, but honestly I don't feel like I need to be thanked for the rest of my life just for serving, others may feel more entitled. YMMV
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  3. #33
    The One & Only OTL! Old-Time-Lifter's Avatar
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    I had a customer come in to have a rug she purchased in Iraq framed. She told me that she had personally seen and watched being destroyed terrible things and to never believe those that claim there were no WMDs in Iraq. She was active military and I can see no reason why she would lie about it.

    I also agree with Doug if you say there were no WMDs make sure you're not talking to a Kurd first. If he had them then... it's reasonable enough to believe he still had them.

    Location Weapon Used Date Casualties
    Haij Umran Mustard August 1983 fewer than 100 Iranian/Kurdish
    Panjwin Mustard October–November 1983 3,001 Iranian/Kurdish
    Majnoon Island Mustard February–March 1984 2,500 Iranians
    al-Basrah Tabun March 1984 50-100 Iranians
    Hawizah Marsh Mustard & Tabun March 1985 3,000 Iranians
    al-Faw Mustard & Tabun February 1986 8,000 to 10,000 Iranians
    Um ar-Rasas Mustard December 1986 1,000s Iranians
    al-Basrah Mustard & Tabun April 1987 5,000 Iranians
    Sumar/Mehran Mustard & nerve agent October 1987 3,000 Iranians
    Halabjah Mustard & nerve agent March 1988 7,000s Kurdish/Iranian
    al-Faw Mustard & nerve agent April 1988 1,000s Iranians
    Fish Lake Mustard & nerve agent May 1988 100s or 1,000s Iranians
    Majnoon Islands Mustard & nerve agent June 1988 100s or 1,000s Iranians
    South-central border Mustard & nerve agent July 1988 100s or 1,000s Iranians
    an-Najaf -Karbala area Nerve agent & CS March 1991 Unknown
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  4. #34
    Registered User m314's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Old-Time-Lifter View Post
    I also agree with Doug if you say there were no WMDs make sure you're not talking to a Kurd first. If he had them then... it's reasonable enough to believe he still had them.
    Do any of you guys watch the news? Are you paying attention to current events at all? You're just proving my point about people making up their minds about something and never changing it in spite of the evidence.

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/02/...iew/index.html
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  5. #35
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    From what I understand a level four bio lab can fit into a shipping crate, or onto the back of a semi. A friend of mine who was an inspector there never found anything, but expressed a lot of frustration with the rules. I'm truing to remember how much notice they had to give, but I think it was 36 hours. Many sites were just empty buildings. Bad in tell? Maybe. To an extent well never know the full scope.
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  6. #36
    Scared ****less eomrat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post

    ...Thanks, but honestly I don't feel like I need to be thanked for the rest of my life just for serving, others may feel more entitled. YMMV
    I havent said a word about it.
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  7. #37
    Registered User geer_matt's Avatar
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    The irony here is that eomrat defends the freedoms that allow you to contradict everything he says.
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  8. #38
    Master Roshi IronCharles's Avatar
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    I suppose anything can be sensationalized. There are Americans that eat kids (Jeffry Dahmer comes immediately to mind). Any story can be modified to fit your intended audience.
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  9. #39
    Momma Mod Trinity1216's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by geer_matt View Post
    The irony here is that eomrat defends the freedoms that allow you to contradict everything he says.
    ^^^^QFT

    Not going to bother multi quoting to damn early in the morning and I need my coffee.

    I just don't believe what the news channels and media reports spew, quite honestly they are in the business of drama, if it bleeds it leads is their motto and they love controversy. I will take the word of a man or women who has actually been on the front line and seen with their own eyes the truth and reality than the media any day.

    Just out of curiosity ACC how long did you serve? Did you see any actual combat? Just asking because most of the military people I know are appreciative of the respect they receive. I make it a point to thank every person I meet that is either serving this country or has served. It's because of them that I can sleep securely at night and wake up in the morning and have the freedom to do and say whatever I choose. But that's just me *shrug*

    Carry on, and I hope everyone has a wonderful day. It's absolutely freezing where I am at and dreading having to go out in it. Moar coffee is needed
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  10. #40
    ╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮ acrawlingchaos's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Trinity1216 View Post
    Just out of curiosity ACC how long did you serve? Did you see any actual combat? Just asking because most of the military people I know are appreciative of the respect they receive. I make it a point to thank every person I meet that is either serving this country or has served. It's because of them that I can sleep securely at night and wake up in the morning and have the freedom to do and say whatever I choose. But that's just me *shrug*
    I served a single tour 4 years active duty (4 years reserves), 91B (Combat Medic). I was deployed to Bosnia (IFOR, Operation Joint Endeavor), for a year in 96 after the signing of the Dayton Peace Accord. It was not a designated combat zone, only a hazard zone. I also worked at the V.A. for 18 months as a swing shift nurses aid after leaving the service.

    I am appreciative of the thanks, but IMO it seems that the "Support the Troops" movement that started in the 90's has become almost a cliche.... the politically correct thing to say. I personally don't care for what has almost become an idolization of what a solider is. I've seen many soldier that let it go to their head, putting themselves on a pedestal. We soldiers and vets are no better than anyone else, our opinions no more valid. No one FORCED us to join, we didn't do it for free, and we don't automatically deserve respect simply because we joined.

    Originally Posted by eomrat View Post
    I havent said a word about it.
    This wasn't directed at you. Though you seem intent on keeping that f*cking gore up.

    Take it down.
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  11. #41
    The One & Only OTL! Old-Time-Lifter's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by m314 View Post
    Do any of you guys watch the news? Are you paying attention to current events at all? You're just proving my point about people making up their minds about something and never changing it in spite of the evidence.

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/02/...iew/index.html
    Perhaps you just don't read history. Iraq had them in the late 80's and early 90's and they used them on the Kurds. Why would any rational person not think they could have ramped this all back up. What part of that is too freaking complicated for you?

    Honestly you're starting to really peeve me off so I'm done with this before I get myself banned.
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  12. #42
    The One & Only OTL! Old-Time-Lifter's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    I served a single tour 4 years active duty (4 years reserves), 91B (Combat Medic). I was deployed to Bosnia (IFOR, Operation Joint Endeavor), for a year in 96 after the signing of the Dayton Peace Accord. It was not a designated combat zone, only a hazard zone. I also worked at the V.A. for 18 months as a swing shift nurses aid after leaving the service.

    I am appreciative of the thanks, but IMO it seems that the "Support the Troops" movement that started in the 90's has become almost a cliche.... the politically correct thing to say. I personally don't care for what has almost become an idolization of what a solider is. I've seen many soldier that let it go to their head, putting themselves on a pedestal. We soldiers and vets are no better than anyone else, our opinions no more valid. No one FORCED us to join, we didn't do it for free, and we don't automatically deserve respect simply because we joined.

    This wasn't directed at you. Though you seem intent on keeping that f*cking gore up.

    Take it down.
    And I thank you for your service and I mean that sincerely.

    BUT, what you've done is a cake walk compared to what Doug has done and seen.

    God Bless you Doug and may he grant you peace in your soul.
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  13. #43
    ╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮ acrawlingchaos's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Old-Time-Lifter View Post
    And I thank you for your service and I mean that sincerely.

    BUT, what you've done is a cake walk compared to what Doug has done and seen.

    God Bless you Doug and may he grant you peace in your soul.
    I don't give a f*ck what Doug has done. It doesn't give him the right to post gore, be an ass hat because of others opinions..... and you... you have NO ****ING CLUE what I have done.... so with all due respect... f*ck off.
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  14. #44
    Day 20 NoShave Nov. tmonkey's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Old-Time-Lifter View Post
    And I thank you for your service and I mean that sincerely.

    BUT, what you've done is a cake walk compared to what Doug has done and seen.

    God Bless you Doug and may he grant you peace in your soul.
    OTL Doug would not rate someones service as less or more important so I am not sure why you would. Everyone that has served our county honorably deserves the same thanks.
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  15. #45
    Registered User Dave76's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    ...but IMO it seems that the "Support the Troops" movement that started in the 90's has become almost a cliche.... the politically correct thing to say.
    And I'm thankful for that and I hate political correctness. I never served but I saw what happened to many of my friends when they returned from Viet Nam. You can hate the war but you damn sure can't hate the soldiers/marines/airmen who served. Personally, I think the "Support the Troops" movement stems from the national shame at the way troops were treated in the 60s-70s.
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    ╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮ acrawlingchaos's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
    And I'm thankful for that and I hate political correctness. I never served but I saw what happened to many of my friends when they returned from Viet Nam. You can hate the war but you damn sure can't hate the soldiers/marines/airmen who served. Personally, I think the "Support the Troops" movement stems from the national shame at the way troops were treated in the 60s-70s.
    You are probably right about were the support the troops movement came from. My father was a Nam vet and had to deal with a lot of that BS so I get it. The problem is now the "respect" seems to be expected...
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    I served a single tour 4 years active duty (4 years reserves), 91B (Combat Medic). I was deployed to Bosnia (IFOR, Operation Joint Endeavor), for a year in 96 after the signing of the Dayton Peace Accord. It was not a designated combat zone, only a hazard zone. I also worked at the V.A. for 18 months as a swing shift nurses aid after leaving the service.

    I am appreciative of the thanks, but IMO it seems that the "Support the Troops" movement that started in the 90's has become almost a cliche.... the politically correct thing to say. I personally don't care for what has almost become an idolization of what a solider is. I've seen many soldier that let it go to their head, putting themselves on a pedestal. We soldiers and vets are no better than anyone else, our opinions no more valid. No one FORCED us to join, we didn't do it for free, and we don't automatically deserve respect simply because we joined.

    This wasn't directed at you. Though you seem intent on keeping that f*cking gore up.

    Take it down.


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  18. #48
    Scared ****less eomrat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    I served a single tour 4 years active duty (4 years reserves), 91B (Combat Medic). I was deployed to Bosnia (IFOR, Operation Joint Endeavor), for a year in 96 after the signing of the Dayton Peace Accord. It was not a designated combat zone, only a hazard zone. I also worked at the V.A. for 18 months as a swing shift nurses aid after leaving the service.

    I am appreciative of the thanks, but IMO it seems that the "Support the Troops" movement that started in the 90's has become almost a cliche.... the politically correct thing to say. I personally don't care for what has almost become an idolization of what a solider is. I've seen many soldier that let it go to their head, putting themselves on a pedestal. We soldiers and vets are no better than anyone else, our opinions no more valid. No one FORCED us to join, we didn't do it for free, and we don't automatically deserve respect simply because we joined.

    This wasn't directed at you. Though you seem intent on keeping that f*cking gore up.

    Take it down.
    As usual, I pretty much entirely agree with you. As far as the "gore" goes. I will leave it up. People like M314 (or whatever) should be forced to look at it every time they decide to spew their political propaganda. Maybe some tiny ray of humanity will help them to see that there are actual results of our policies beyond their irrelevant partisan bull****.

    I am very angry about the tone of our political debate in America. I don't think I am unhinged. I do not understand why everyone isn't angry.

    Also, Friends, ACC is absolutely correct. My profession has given me no special insight into anything. Perhaps I am more emotional than I would be otherwise, but I am certainly no smarter or my opinion somehow more qualified.
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    ╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮ acrawlingchaos's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by eomrat View Post
    As usual, I pretty much entirely agree with you. As far as the "gore" goes. I will leave it up. People like M314 (or whatever) should be forced to look at it every time they decide to spew their political propaganda. Maybe some tiny ray of humanity will help them to see that there are actual results of our policies beyond their irrelevant partisan bull****.
    Nobody should be "forced" to look at that.

    You're a sick man.


    I will ask a moderator to remove them.
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    Nobody should be "forced" to look at that.

    You're a sick man.


    I will ask a moderator to remove them.
    Fair enough.
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  21. #51
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    Originally Posted by Old-Time-Lifter View Post
    Perhaps you just don't read history. Iraq had them in the late 80's and early 90's and they used them on the Kurds. Why would any rational person not think they could have ramped this all back up. What part of that is too freaking complicated for you?

    Honestly you're starting to really peeve me off so I'm done with this before I get myself banned.
    I guess clicking on a link and watching a video is too complicated for you. When the Bush administration officials themselves admit they were wrong about the WMDs, it's time to accept the truth. When the intelligence sources in Iraq admit they lied about it all along, it's time to admit that the whole thing was a mistake. Are guys like Colin Powell and Donald Rumsfeld in on some liberal conspiracy now? Here's a direct quote from Rumsfeld's book:

    "Powell was not duped or misled by anybody, nor did he lie about Saddam's suspected WMD stockpiles. The President did not lie. The Vice President did not lie. Tenet did not lie. Rice did not lie. I did not lie. The Congress did not lie. The far less dramatic truth is that we were wrong."

    Originally Posted by geer_matt View Post
    The irony here is that eomrat defends the freedoms that allow you to contradict everything he says.
    Yes, eomrat is a special snowflake. His military service means he's always right, and a history of military service is an acceptable excuse for being a dick. Right?
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  22. #52
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    Originally Posted by eomrat View Post

    Also, Friends, ACC is absolutely correct. My profession has given me no special insight into anything. Perhaps I am more emotional than I would be otherwise, but I am certainly no smarter or my opinion somehow more qualified.
    He and you are both correct, but regardless if you feel you or any serviceman or woman think thanks and respect is deserved or not, it is given. Because ALL people who volunteer to serve this country deserves it. I know many families that have husbands/wives serving and I know they do not do it for the money.

    LOL I think you and I had this conversation recently, you know how fiercely loyal I am to our soldiers and our country Sowwy I can't help it.


    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    Nobody should be "forced" to look at that.

    You're a sick man.


    I will ask a moderator to remove them.
    Sorry ACC but the title of this topic and the story is also considered gore and vulgar. So the entire thread should then be deleted? Gore is not only visual but with descriptive words as well. You don't want Nazi style censorship now do you?
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    Registered User m314's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    Nobody should be "forced" to look at that.

    You're a sick man.

    I will ask a moderator to remove them.
    I know this is a privately owned forum where they can make whatever rules they want. I don't believe in censoring anyone, though. I don't think anyone's posts here should be deleted outside of a few rare exceptions.
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    Scared ****less eomrat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by m314 View Post
    I know this is a privately owned forum where they can make whatever rules they want. I don't believe in censoring anyone, though. I don't think anyone's posts here should be deleted outside of a few rare exceptions.
    The photos I posted may very well be one of those exceptions. The O35 mods are pretty good and I believe I violated the ROE for this board.

    But, I am not taking the photos down.
    Last edited by eomrat; 01-31-2013 at 07:41 AM.
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    ╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮ acrawlingchaos's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Trinity1216 View Post
    Sorry ACC but the title of this topic and the story is also considered gore and vulgar. So the entire thread should then be deleted? Gore is not only visual but with descriptive words as well. You don't want Nazi style censorship now do you?
    The op did not post gore, the op posted a question based on sensationalistic media. I found the topic amusing.

    As far as censorship... this is laughable as myself and a few others were specifically told not to post in a specific thread in the motivational section. Not only that, but some comments were deleted. I didn't see you write anything in defense of censor ship at that point.... though I get it, not my board. I had no issues complying.

    This... it is a privately owned board, as someone who used to be a mod, you should know that the first Amendment right does not apply here. There is a reason that we can't post porn here.



    Originally Posted by m314 View Post
    I know this is a privately owned forum where they can make whatever rules they want. I don't believe in censoring anyone, though. I don't think anyone's posts here should be deleted outside of a few rare exceptions.
    Personally, I don't care for censorship... I really don't. This is one of those exceptions I take issue with. I find it disturbing on a very personal level, and I would have thought EOM would have at least taken it down out of courtesy. I am not asking for him to be banned, just the pics removed.
    Last edited by acrawlingchaos; 01-31-2013 at 07:30 AM.
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    The op did not post gore, the op posted a question based on sensationalistic media. I found the topic amusing.

    As far as censorship... this is laughable as myself and a few others were specifically told not to post in a specific thread in the motivational section. Not only that, but some comments were deleted. I didn't see you write anything in defense of censor ship at that point.... though I get it, not my board. I had no issues complying.

    This... it is a privately owned board, as someone who used to be a mod, you should know that the first Amendment right does not apply here. There is a reason that we can't post porn here.



    You took a comment I made in jest and blew it out of proportion and then called in reinforcements Chill life is to short to walk around so wound up all the time. Trust me I know.


    Anyway carry on, I have stated my opinion and anything further will be redundant.


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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    The op did not post gore, the op posted a question based on sensationalistic media. I found the topic amusing.

    As far as censorship... this is laughable as myself and a few others were specifically told not to post in a specific thread in the motivational section. Not only that, but some comments were deleted. I didn't see you write anything in defense of censor ship at that point....
    I was LOLing @ the irony of that myself.
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    Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
    Personally, I think the "Support the Troops" movement stems from the national shame at the way troops were treated in the 60s-70s.
    IMO....along with some experience, the above is correct.

    Carry on....back to topic....mas cafe para mi.

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    Originally Posted by m314 View Post
    It seems plausible that people would resort to that in a time of famine. Who knows if it's true. Some of the stories of atrocities in Bosnia were exaggerations or outright lies crafted to get the US involved in the war. Every story about WMDs in Iraq turned out to be false, but people still believe them. North Korea is more of a closed society than Bosnia or Iraq, so it would be tough to verify stories like this one way or the other.

    There's one thing that's true. People will read this story and be 100% convinced for life. That's how public opinion works. Most people still think "bath salts" make you go crazy and chew someone's face off. They base that opinion off one statement from a cop that was later proven false.
    An entire division of Russian chemical warfare troops sanitized Iraq. Bernie Goldberg brings this up now and then. They finished shortly before the air war started. The Iraqi chem/bio weapons that were left were shipped to the Bekaa valley in Lebanon. This made the news cycle for only 24hrs. Thank you, Statist Religious press....
    I'll take arrogance and the inevitable hubris over self-doubt and lack of confidence, anyday.......
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