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  1. #1
    Registered User Diblas's Avatar
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    Leangains IF for fat loss help

    Hey guys my stats are : 74 kilos 176 cm and im trying the leangains approach, my macros are :
    workout day
    174g protein
    240g carbs
    50g fat

    non workout:
    174g protein
    50g carbs
    140g fat
    Im asking for help caus ei seen many threads saying u should go higher calorie on train days and im confused. what would you change?
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  2. #2
    Registered User jimsmith9999's Avatar
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    I'd simply things and eat the same calories and macros every day.

    The macro and calorie cycling are Martins secret sauce for recomping lean people.
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  3. #3
    Registered User dmacdonal9's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Diblas View Post
    Hey guys my stats are : 74 kilos 176 cm and im trying the leangains approach, my macros are :
    workout day
    174g protein
    240g carbs
    50g fat

    non workout:
    174g protein
    50g carbs
    140g fat
    Im asking for help caus ei seen many threads saying u should go higher calorie on train days and im confused. what would you change?

    If there is any point at all to cycling fat vs carbs in leangains, it has to do with keeping fat reasonably low on training days if you're in a calorie surplus on those days. That does make some sense. High fat and an acute calorie surplus do not go well together.

    So the idea is to keep it low on training (surplus) days and jack it up on deficit days when total fat intake is irrelevant, just to help meet min fat goals.

    If your'e in a deficit every day it's not worth considering to my mind. At that point (if anything) you may want higher carbs on training days, if preworkout carbs help fuel workouts for you (jury is out on that one too though as far as I'm concerned).
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  4. #4
    Registered User azmal's Avatar
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    y r u having 3 times more amount of fat on non lifting dayz ?
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  5. #5
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    Keep it simple. eat in deficit in the same amounts everyday. people complicate their lives too much. in or out if the gym it dont matter. that's if you're losing weight.
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  6. #6
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    so should i just go with 40 / 40 / 20 all days ?
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  7. #7
    Banned Delgadido's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dmacdonal9 View Post
    If there is any point at all to cycling fat vs carbs in leangains, it has to do with keeping fat reasonably low on training days if you're in a calorie surplus on those days. That does make some sense. High fat and an acute calorie surplus do not go well together.

    So the idea is to keep it low on training (surplus) days and jack it up on deficit days when total fat intake is irrelevant, just to help meet min fat goals.

    If your'e in a deficit every day it's not worth considering to my mind. At that point (if anything) you may want higher carbs on training days, if preworkout carbs help fuel workouts for you (jury is out on that one too though as far as I'm concerned).

    Alan aragon had an interesting talk about the carb intake on training days will vary from person to person. but what he did say is.

    if you train in the morning, the previous day should be your carb day.
    if you train in the evening, have that as your carb day.

    just so it can be processed and your glycogen stores can be filled for lifting(of course it isnt fully replenished but good enough for what you need)
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  8. #8
    Worlds slowest cut-ter SilvaMan61's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Diblas View Post
    so should i just go with 40 / 40 / 20 all days ?
    Calculate minimum requirements. You body doesn't care about the ratio of macros.
    "The hardship of the exercises is intended less to strengthen the back than to toughen the mind. The Spartans say that any army may win while it still has it's legs under it; the real test comes when all strength has fled and the men must produce victory on will alone." (Pressfield,1998, p.78)
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  9. #9
    Registered User transformerchad's Avatar
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    IF = BS for fat loss

    Calorie Deficit = Legit Fat Loss

    simple .. meal timing means jack sh*t
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  10. #10
    Registered User Diblas's Avatar
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    alright, think im going to follow this protocol then with normal eating windows not IF:

    170g protein
    197 g carbs
    53,3 g fat

    everyday ill be in a caloric deficit then, do you think the fats should be higher?
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  11. #11
    Registered User transformerchad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Diblas View Post
    alright, think im going to follow this protocol then with normal eating windows not IF:

    170g protein
    197 g carbs
    53,3 g fat

    everyday ill be in a caloric deficit then, do you think the fats should be higher?
    see how the weight loss goes , if u lose too fast then up the fats by 10grams a day
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  12. #12
    Registered User jimsmith9999's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by transformerchad View Post
    IF = BS for fat loss

    Calorie Deficit = Legit Fat Loss

    simple .. meal timing means jack sh*t
    Caloric deficit for sure is required, but to say that IF and meal timing means nothing for fat loss is untrue. IF and meal timing play no physiological role in fat loss. That is definitely true.

    However, IF and/or Meal timing can play a massive role in dietary compliance (either way) and therefore can have a massive effect on fat loss.
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  13. #13
    Registered User Askie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by transformerchad View Post
    IF = BS for fat loss

    Calorie Deficit = Legit Fat Loss

    simple .. meal timing means jack sh*t
    Is this from personal experience. People that knock IF aint tried it.

    Also people get this IF thing all mixed up. Calorie deficit and IF needs to happen. Not just IF.
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  14. #14
    Registered User Diblas's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Askie View Post
    Is this from personal experience. People that knock IF aint tried it.

    Also people get this IF thing all mixed up. Calorie deficit and IF needs to happen. Not just IF.
    but do you mean caloric deficit all days , should u do IF with same calories all days not moving the macros?
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  15. #15
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    Originally Posted by transformerchad View Post
    IF = BS for fat loss

    Calorie Deficit = Legit Fat Loss

    simple .. meal timing means jack sh*t
    if is bs for fat loss in what aspect?

    This is the situation where people are confusing other people.
    Meal timing, IF, frequency, keto, etc. is irrelevant for fat loss.

    It is all about deficit.

    but for dieting people will always go a route they prefer. Some people do like the small meals, some people like big meals, some people like to follow the rules of certain programs or structures because it is easier for them to diet according to those specifications.
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  16. #16
    Registered User jimsmith9999's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Diblas View Post
    but do you mean caloric deficit all days , should u do IF with same calories all days not moving the macros?
    As I already mentioned, moving calories around is not needed, and based on trying to copy Martin Berkhans recomping plan.

    Here is the deal with IF. IF is simply alternating patterns of eating and not eating. No more, no less. It can be 16/8, it can be every other day fasting, it and be fasting once or twice per week or any combination or variation you can dream up. That's it.

    Leangains is an IF system popularized by Martin Berkhan that uses the 16/8 pattern with calorie and macro cycling. The whole point of this approach is/was to recomp very lean people or add mass while minimizing fat gains (by lean - think 10-12% BF). Th macro and calorie cycling was part of his approach.

    A bunch of people jumped on the bandwagon and created an IF cult-like approach around this system and use if for everything, regardless of the current body composition levels and/or goals.

    So you can cycle your macros and calories if you want. But understand why you are doing it, and realize that there is no benefit beyond personal preference. Don't do it (or IF for that matter) because you think that any intrinsic physiological advantage or it "must be done".
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  17. #17
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    You have to try what best suits you.

    If you over complicate things in the start by playing about with macros and calories then this is when things mess up.

    Eat same macros and calories for one week and see what happens. Then adjust one variable at a time in a week.

    If eating 6 times a day works then do that. Main goal is losing weight, so why not be in a deficit every day. Lose the weight then maintain.

    Life is about choice and what suits your body.

    For me IF works, eating like a rabbit 6 times a day
    doesn't.

    IF by itself won't work. If you eat crap, be it for 8 or 16 hours you will put on weight.
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  18. #18
    Registered User markthomas1969's Avatar
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    I am just trying to get a grasp on the IF schedule. I read the Leangains page and from what I read in this and other posts, I should only fast 2~3 times per week. What I think I have overlooked was; do I fast on workout days or on off days.
    Currently I lift on Monday, Wednesday, & Friday with burst training directly after the workout. Can someone chime in and clearify this for me?
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  19. #19
    Registered User jimsmith9999's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by markthomas1969 View Post
    I am just trying to get a grasp on the IF schedule. I read the Leangains page and from what I read in this and other posts, I should only fast 2~3 times per week. What I think I have overlooked was; do I fast on workout days or on off days.
    Currently I lift on Monday, Wednesday, & Friday with burst training directly after the workout. Can someone chime in and clearify this for me?
    Read my post 2 up.
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  20. #20
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    Originally Posted by jimsmith9999 View Post
    As I already mentioned, moving calories around is not needed, and based on trying to copy Martin Berkhans recomping plan.

    Here is the deal with IF. IF is simply alternating patterns of eating and not eating. No more, no less. It can be 16/8, it can be every other day fasting, it and be fasting once or twice per week or any combination or variation you can dream up. That's it.

    Leangains is an IF system popularized by Martin Berkhan that uses the 16/8 pattern with calorie and macro cycling. The whole point of this approach is/was to recomp very lean people or add mass while minimizing fat gains (by lean - think 10-12% BF). Th macro and calorie cycling was part of his approach.

    A bunch of people jumped on the bandwagon and created an IF cult-like approach around this system and use if for everything, regardless of the current body composition levels and/or goals.

    So you can cycle your macros and calories if you want. But understand why you are doing it, and realize that there is no benefit beyond personal preference. Don't do it (or IF for that matter) because you think that any intrinsic physiological advantage or it "must be done".
    I personally think macro cycling is only worth it on high deficit diets. thats jsut my personal belief. there is no substantial evidence on using macro cycling on high deficits so i have to go off of experience until further notice
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  21. #21
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    Originally Posted by Delgadido View Post
    I personally think macro cycling is only worth it on high deficit diets. thats jsut my personal belief. there is no substantial evidence on using macro cycling on high deficits so i have to go off of experience until further notice
    There are some compelling theories about cycling fats and carbs and calories while adding mass. The idea being that when in a surplus, storage of carbs as fat is less likely to happen, where as storage of fat is more likely to happen. So keep calories above maintenance on some days, with carbs high and fats low on those days. Then drop calories below maintenance so you can up fats quite high in order get adequate dietary fats in over a span of time (while scaling back on carbs to scale back calories enough to allow for the extra fat and still be below maintenance).

    Whether or not this works, or how well it works if it does - I have no idea. This is theory behind the leangains calorie and carb cycling though. What I can say is that Martin stopped doing that with his clients and started doing low fat all the time, and cycles carbs and protein now - with protein being extremely high on some days. IMHO - if he backed away from the carb/fat cycling stuff, I'm guessing it's not all it's cracked up to be
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    Originally Posted by dmacdonal9 View Post
    If there is any point at all to cycling fat vs carbs in leangains, it has to do with keeping fat reasonably low on training days if you're in a calorie surplus on those days. That does make some sense. High fat and an acute calorie surplus do not go well together.

    So the idea is to keep it low on training (surplus) days and jack it up on deficit days when total fat intake is irrelevant, just to help meet min fat goals.

    If your'e in a deficit every day it's not worth considering to my mind. At that point (if anything) you may want higher carbs on training days, if preworkout carbs help fuel workouts for you (jury is out on that one too though as far as I'm concerned).
    Does it matter what kind of fats or any kind of fat is a detriment, even the good kind (avocados, fish oil, nuts, etc)?
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