Powerblock Straight Bar released (and EZCurl bar)

[PaulRivers]

I saw a vaguely related thread last week or something, other than that I hadn't seen a thread on them here.

Powerblock released a straight bar and ez curl bar for use with their powerblocks.

Straight Bar -
http://www.powerblock.com/prod_homeu...ight%20Bar.php



EZCurl Bar -
http://www.powerblock.com/prod_homeu...20EZ%20Bar.php



Like the Ironmaster equivalent, they seem to be a "halfway" solution that's interesting, but doesn't quite replace a regular barbell set (unfortunately).

Possible Issues -
1. Their max weight is 195lb's. This is the max listed on their website, and I emailed powerblock directly and they confirmed that this is the max weight.
2. It works with the U50, U70, and U90 sets, but not the XXXL Heavy Weight 175 Set, or the 125 version of the same set (again, website plus they confirmed over email).
3. The bar does not rotate like an Olympic bar does. Don't know personally how much a difference this really makes with 195lb's. (Again, website plus they confirmed over email).
4. Don't know if the rectangle shape of the weight vs the round shape of barbell plates would make any sort of real-world difference.
5. The bar without the weights is 40 inches (55 inches including the area for the weights). That's 3.3 feet and 5.5 feet. Don't know if that would fit on a power rack. I didn't list this as a major issue because of the weight limit, and for someone looking for minimize workout area size they might not have room for a power rack anyways.
6. Usually power blocks are more expensive than buying the equivalent used weights off craigslist - if you have the room for them.

I would be more interested in them if the could be used with the 175lb block set, as they could be used to squat 370lb's then, in a relatively compact home package. As it is, it's interesting, and maybe useful for someone who can only work out at home where space is very limited, or for someone who can't go to the gym all the times they want to and wants to do more lightweight exercises at home when they can't go (and has the money for it).

[morebarbell]

I saw a vaguely related thread last week or something, other than that I hadn't seen a thread on them here....

You not only saw the thread... you posted in it... more than once

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...83&pagenumber=

Here's a cut and paste of my comments:

....
I'm more than happy to write about the actual specific drawbacks, but the idea that it's absurd to have weights that are compact and function as both dumbells and a barbell is...absurd...

Standard weight plates can be used with standard dumbbells or standard barbells. Olympic weight plates can be used with olympic dumbbells or olympic barbells. Weights that are used for both dumbbells or barbells are not a new idea. Welding Powerblock dumbbell handles perpendicular to the ends of a barbell does have drawbacks. I think the "actual specific drawbacks" are useful to discuss before making an informed decision about whether or not to buy them.

....
I mentioned some of those in my post, and mentioned that the weight change time is a non-issue. Only the non-rotating sleeves possibly make it worse than plates, and a powerblock is much more compact - and more versatile as one can use them as dumbells as well.

The weight change time may be a "non issue" for YOU but it is not for me. For me, the ease of changing weights with Powerblocks is by far the biggest advantage of the dumbbells. The reason why I think the U-33 and the U-50 are Powerblock's best designs, is the ability to make normal 5 pound jumps with a pin change and ability to only use the chrome weights to micro load. On the U-90, 5 pound weight changes are slowed down a bit because you need to use the chrome weights. It's not that bad but it's really not going to be that much faster than a 5 pound change on the competing Ironmaster product. Weight changes are slowed down even further with the Powerblock barbell… it appears to be slowed down so much that it would take longer to change the weight 5 pounds with the Powerblock barbell than to make a 5 pound change with an olympic barbell.

....
The non-rotating sleeves are a concern, but as I mentioned my biggest concern is the low max weight. 195lbs is not enough. I'm not sure whether the non-round shape would be a long term concern or not.

Both the non-rotating sleeves and the non-round shape are a concern to me. As I said in my prior post, the weight is distributed abnormally. Since all the weight is distributed perpendicular to the bar on a single axis, the torque will be even worse than a standard bar with symmetrical round plates (and much worse than an olympic bar which has rotating sleeves and uses symmetrical round plates).

....
That's what I mean about a kneejerk reaction. There's no strength gain to doing the math, and it's annoying. I *could* jog to work each morning, but instead I choose to take a much more convenient car (and partially because it would probably take 4 hours of jogging each day). It would be more convenient not to have to do plate math, and that's all there is to it. No one said that doing the math is a monumental task, it's just annoying.

I'm not sure that's the best example of a "knee-jerk reaction". Maybe I'm particularly good at math and don't know it, but I find it very simple to do addition and subtraction in my head. If I add two 2.5 pound weights to 225 pounds, the total weight will be 230. I can do the calculation without much thought. It's a skill that is useful in daily life outside the weight room and I do hope (for their benefit) that most folks will also find it just as simple.

....
Wow, everyone who buys a powerrack already has an olympic bar? Well why are we even debating then! There you go - no one will even consider this, no reason to even have a discussion.

Your sarcasm seems very misplaced, especially considering the politeness of my replies.

Are we talking about the same thing? Are we talking about an actual power rack… not a squat stand…. and not a Weider bench press… or the rickety bench press that came with a cement weight set. I don't know anyone who has an actual power rack and doesn't have olympic weights. Someone might have a standard bar instead…. though not all standard bars will be rack able. My points were that if you have a power rack, you probably already have weights. And that if one of the benefits of the PowerBlock barbell is that it is "much more compact", that benefit is mostly negated by a power rack. I don't think that much space will be saved by buying the Powerblock barbell and a power rack instead of an Olympic barbell and power rack. The rack will be taking up most of the space.

....A long bar makes no difference in doing a squat whatsoever. I've never seen someone for whom their elbow to elbow distance was anywhere near 5 feet, and squatting usually puts the hand in closer than that.

The actual bar portion of the Powerblock curl bar is 31.5", that's less than 3 feet. The actual bar portion of the Powerblock straight barbell is 40", that's 3 feet and 4 inches.

I don't find short bars comfortable for squats. Maybe I have a bigger frame. I have used short workout bars for squats in my friend's group power class and I found them very uncomfortable.

....
....The powerblock bar comes in both ez curl and straight bars, so I don't see the point there.

My point is that you could do those exercises with just the dumbbells. You don't need the bar for those exercises.

....
That's pretty amazing considering the actual price on amazon right now is $429 for that set. I don't think I've ever seen a 300lb weight set with olympic bar on craigslist for less then $160, unless it had something horribly wrong with it. And as they're not bumper plates, you don't want to drop those either.

For a year it was at $159.99 but they've raised the price $10 since I last looked. Be prepared to be amazed: http://www.dunhamssports.com/product...ic-weight-set/

I don't think you chose a good example of realistic prices. You could get a Cap weight set for FAR less than $429 at just about ANY local sporting goods store.

As I've said previously, I'm a big fan of PowerBlock dumbbells. I do think the PowerBlock barbell is very limited in its use. If it appeals to you, buy it. If I had unlimited funds, I'd buy the U-33, the U-50 and U-90 and XL club sets. But I probably wouldn't buy the barbells even if I had deep pockets. I suppose that if I were rich, I could buy them and not use them. But unfortunately I don't have unlimited funds and there are lots of options that are far less expensive and far more useful to me.

[owasM]

don't think another thread on this was needed imo.

it's just a replacement for a fixed barbell set, rather than something to squat with.

how many people really need a fixed barbell set in there home gym or a replacement for one? another oly bar would be a much better purchase.

[PaulRivers]

A lot of people could use a super compact barbell and dumbbell weight system that's compact enough to store under a couch. I move about every year, and don't live in a big enough space to handle to just throw in another olympic bar, a power rack, a weight tree, etc. During the summer, about every week it seemed like someone was asking about doing basically the same thing.

If this didn't have a 195lb weight limit, it might be perfect. It's definitely the most compact setup I can think of.

[morebarbell]

Ironmaster has a shortie bar and an EZ bar also. They're a bit less expensive at $75 each (versus $129 for the ones from Powerblock) but you could just use ANY standard bar instead. Standard bars are cheap at Play it Again Sports. On more than one occasion, I was given several standard bars and standard plates for free with big purchases on Craigslist.

In my opinion, most of the barbell exercises could be substituted with similar dumbbell exercises. But if you know that an adjustable barbell set (like owasM described) is something you'll use, then the Ironmaster Dumbbells are a better choice in my opinion since (1) They do not require a proprietary barbell although one is available. They can be used with ANY inexpensive standard barbell... including tricep bars and specialty bars that currently aren't available from Ironmaster or Powerblock (2) The weight limit is higher... pretty much whatever you can fit on a standard bar... using either the 160 lbs available for the dumbbells or a mix of the plates from the dumbbells and readily available standard weights.

Of course, olympic barbells would be better for higher weight capacities.

Ironmaster EZ Curl Bar


Ironmaster straight bar


Standard bars

[Detrus]

don't think another thread on this was needed imo.

it's just a replacement for a fixed barbell set, rather than something to squat with.

how many people really need a fixed barbell set in there home gym or a replacement for one? another oly bar would be a much better purchase.

What people in a cramped apartment need is a compact weight set with dumbbells. That means a short bar, plates, dumbbells. Spinlock weight sets answer this need. Ironmaster added a bar to their dumbbell system, although in their case most of their customers have oly weight sets. Now powerblock wants to make more off their current customer base, adding a barbell. And yea it makes sense, would you rather get a second set of spinlocks/olys just to have a bar or use the same powerblocks?

It's just the design is flawed. As you go heavy, changing the weight quickly becomes less important. So when you buy into powerblocks you're excluded from the world of oly/standard weights that are more useful for a wider variety of fitness goals.

A lot of these compact home weight set problems really stem from there not being olympic weight sets with short bars and dumbbell handles. When most people see 20" oly dumbbells, they freak. 7' bars aren't convenient in cramped spaces. And 5' oly bars don't have weight capacity for deadlifts, nor the sleeve space. A lot of 5, 10 lb oly plates are thick which limits how many you can fit on a dumbbell. With standard sets there's only Ivanko left with 27mm bars that will take heavy loads and a 28mm 7' bar.

So yea, powerblocks will have a market because the competition has a lot of imperfections, especially at first glance. But I'd rather have those imperfections than powerblock's. And the problems with oly sets can be fixed relatively easily, it's just marketing the same old thing that's the problem.

[jackbravo]

You not only saw the thread... you posted in it... more than once

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...83&pagenumber=

Here's a cut and paste of my comments:

reps on recharge. this is hilarious!

[PaulRivers]

Ironmaster has a shortie bar and an EZ bar also. They're a bit less expensive at $75 each (versus $129 for the ones from Powerblock) but you could just use ANY standard bar instead. Standard bars are cheap at Play it Again Sports. On more than one occasion, I was given several standard bars and standard plates for free with big purchases on Craigslist.

I'm not sure you can use ANY standard bar instead - the plates will fit, but when I contacted Ironmaster about it they expressed concern about being able to keep the square plates from rotating around on the bar. Though I'm not sure if that concern was "it won't work" or "I'm a sales guy and I'm not sure if it will work or not".

Their bar is also limited to 250lbs.

If you could really use their weights with any bar, someone mentioned that Ivanko makes a "standard" (1") bar that is rated for a 1,000lbs with standard plates -
http://www.ivankobarbell.com/products/b86/

Hmm...I'd have to ask them again if you could actually use any bar with the plates, like I said they expressed concern about not the plates rotating around. And the 7"2 bar is to long to fit under a couch - might go in a closet though, that would probably be good enough. You'd certainly get a lot of ROM on your deadlift and power clean, lol...

I didn't really like the size of the stand that comes with it, but maybe I could throw out the stand and store the dumbells with all the weights attached, under the couch.

Sizewise, I wonder how much weight the Ivanko bar could fit on it with ironmaster plates...

In my opinion, most of the barbell exercises could be substituted with similar dumbbell exercises.

I don't think that would quite work...let's take starting strength - the bench press can definitely be done with dumbells. Ditto on the overhead press. But having done barbell squat doing a dumbell squat seems fairly impossible. It *really* depends on the bar resting somewhere on your shoulders, not to mention squat weights being to large to have a dumbell small enough to hold on your shoulders. Holding the weights are your side just isn't the same exercise and it doesn't work the same muscles...I'm not an expert though, maybe it would be "close enough" for someone just wanting to get in shape.

I'm not sure whether the deadlift could be converted to a dumbell version. The power clean definitely cannot be.

I guess maybe one could do AllPro's? Bent over rows seem to be possible with dumbells (not sure though). Still not sure about the deadlift...the squat is still the problem.

But if you know that an adjustable barbell set (like owasM described) is something you'll use, then the Ironmaster Dumbbells are a better choice in my opinion since (1) They do not require a proprietary barbell although one is available. They can be used with ANY inexpensive standard barbell... including tricep bars and specialty bars that currently aren't available from Ironmaster or Powerblock (2) The weight limit is higher... pretty much whatever you can fit on a standard bar... using either the 160 lbs available for the dumbbells or a mix of the plates from the dumbbells and readily available standard weights.

Of course, olympic barbells would be better for higher weight capacities.

Ironmaster EZ Curl Bar


Ironmaster straight bar


Standard bars

Notice how the Ironmaster bar has a silver metal thing on it to specifically fit ironmaster plates...

[Detrus]

The silver metal thing just acts as an inner collar. You can load standard round plates right to it. I think it's a bad idea if you're trying to save space though. An oly or standard bar can be easily shoved behind furniture, even if it's 7' long. With big things like that it's not so easy. But I guess it eases loading.

[PaulRivers]

What people in a cramped apartment need is a compact weight set with dumbbells.

I don't think you can really do squats with dumbells. Can't do power cleans, but you could probably just choose a different program. Not sure about the deadlift either. But the squat is the fundamental of exercise of almost every commonly liked program.

Believe me - if you know of something that would prove me wrong, I would *love* to hear it. I started off wanting to get just adjustable dumbells, but it's the squat that was killing. After doing the squat for a while, I really don't think you can do the same exercise with dumbells.

That means a short bar, plates, dumbbells. Spinlock weight sets answer this need. Ironmaster added a bar to their dumbbell system, although in their case most of their customers have oly weight sets. Now powerblock wants to make more off their current customer base, adding a barbell. And yea it makes sense, would you rather get a second set of spinlocks/olys just to have a bar or use the same powerblocks?

Yeah, though...well see my previous reply. :-)

It's just the design is flawed. As you go heavy, changing the weight quickly becomes less important. So when you buy into powerblocks you're excluded from the world of oly/standard weights that are more useful for a wider variety of fitness goals.

A lot of these compact home weight set problems really stem from there not being olympic weight sets with short bars and dumbbell handles. When most people see 20" oly dumbbells, they freak. 7' bars aren't convenient in cramped spaces. And 5' oly bars don't have weight capacity for deadlifts, nor the sleeve space. A lot of 5, 10 lb oly plates are thick which limits how many you can fit on a dumbbell. With standard sets there's only Ivanko left with 27mm bars that will take heavy loads and a 28mm 7' bar.

So yea, powerblocks will have a market because the competition has a lot of imperfections, especially at first glance. But I'd rather have those imperfections than powerblock's. And the problems with oly sets can be fixed relatively easily, it's just marketing the same old thing that's the problem.

Yeah, if they can make an (around) $300 "standard" bar that holds 1,000lbs, I can't imagine that it's not technically possible to make an olympic bar that's shorter but also does 1,000lbs.

But none of the olympic-related systems right now are anywhere near the compactness of powerblock or even ironmaster.

[PaulRivers]

The silver metal thing just acts as an inner collar. You can load standard round plates right to it. I think it's a bad idea if you're trying to save space though. An oly or standard bar can be easily shoved behind furniture, even if it's 7' long. With big things like that it's not so easy. But I guess it eases loading.

What I was saying is the *other* way - you can likely use standard plates with the ironmaster bar, but you can't use the ironmaster plates with a standard bar because that "inner collar" is shaped to let the square ironmaster plate lock into in a certain way. That's why the square plates don't rotate around on the Ironmaster bar - because they lock into that inner collar.

At least that was the impression I was given by the Ironmaster sales guy.

Not sure if the spinlocks might be required to apply enough pressure to keep the plates together either...I mean I'm just guessing here based on what the Ironmaster guy told me.

[owasM]

conclusion -
it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

[PaulRivers]

conclusion -
it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Conclusion - you either have a ton of free space at home to set up a power cage, etc, or you don't mind the drive time, recurring cost, business (including waiting for a rack), and poor music select () of a commercial gym.

It's not the best solution, but the problem is trying to work out at home without taking up a bunch of permanent space is a problem that exists and is annoyingly difficult to solve.

[morebarbell]

I'm not sure you can use ANY standard bar instead - the plates will fit, but when I contacted Ironmaster about it they expressed concern about being able to keep the square plates from rotating around on the bar. Though I'm not sure if that concern was "it won't work" or "I'm a sales guy and I'm not sure if it will work or not"....

I have the Ironmaster 120lb bells and have used the plates on standard bars. I got a standard tricep bomber and EZ curl and a bunch of other stuff thrown in with the Ironmaster bells that I bought on Craigslist. I flipped the extras but I did try the bars with the plates just for fun. If you clamp everything down, it's pretty stable. With a very dynamic movement like a clean, it might come loose... I guess it depends on the collar. They'd probably rotate if you don't set the weight down flat. But I don't see why this would be more of a concern than the construction of the PowerBlock. The PowerBlock barbell only has one side that faces up. The Ironmaster plates on a generic standard bar has 4 sides that can face up.

I don't think that would quite work...let's take starting strength

Starting Strength specifies that you use Olympic weights, not standard weights or Ironmaster barbells or Powerblock barbells.

"All real weight rooms are equipped with standard barbell plates with a 2-inch center hole. The little plates with a 1-inch hole are referred to as "exercise plates," and are not useful since no good bar is commercially produced for them." --Starting Strength

If you want to race in Le Tour de France then you should buy the appropriate bicycle, not a unicycle. But if all you have is a unicycle, you can use it to get from point A to point B.

There are many dumbbell variants of exercises. If you do a youtube or google search for "dumbbell squat", for example, you'll find many examples. We don't always have everything that we want, but it's best to do what we can with what we have.

[Detrus]

I don't think you can really do squats with dumbells. Can't do power cleans, but you could probably just choose a different program. Not sure about the deadlift either. But the squat is the fundamental of exercise of almost every commonly liked program

I meant a weight set with bar and dumbbells. A weight set means bar and plates. You can do cleans with dumbbells actually, sucks though.

And if we're talking about compact home gyms, you need some fancy rack/stand setup to do back squats safely. Or get a trap bar. Or you're limited to the weight you can clean. Or you can clean a bit more doing front squats. Or you can do jefferson squats and lunges. Nothing beats the back squat, especially for a beginner. But you can make do.

I don't think people expect to get the same quality workout with a home weight set as they would in a decent gym. You have to compromise, your progress will be slower, you'll have to put in more time. But the biggest problem for many will be the weight they can load after working out consistently.

But you don't need 1000 lb bar, just 500 for beginners. Most people will stop there, most crossfit athletes don't have 600 lb deadlifts, don't need them for functional strength/looks goals.

Oly sets can be compact. A 6' bar with 15" sleeves will fit a bunch of 45s, 25s, 10s. Probably fit 360 lbs of varying plates. If you have a bunch more 45s then you can fit more. And even if you have a stack on floor of 45s, 25s, take up 2 square feet, then a stack of 10 lb plates taking up .5 square foot, it's pretty compact. Powerblocks are what, 1.5 square feet?

[commonguy001]

Conclusion - you either have a ton of free space at home to set up a power cage, etc, or you don't mind the drive time, recurring cost, business (including waiting for a rack), and poor music select () of a commercial gym.

It's not the best solution, but the problem is trying to work out at home without taking up a bunch of permanent space is a problem that exists and is annoyingly difficult to solve.

I think you could split the difference on this and say
Most people who have home gyms don't have the room or $$$ to invest in a full set of commercial style dumbbells so Powerblock or Ironmaster are an ideal solution for a high percentage of those that workout at home.

A significantly smaller percentage with home gyms need a slick solution for a curl or straight bar set-up like this as an Olympic set of weights seems to be the standard. So while it's probably a fine product it's not a breakthrough product like a high quality easy to use set of adjustable dumbbells.

[PaulRivers]

I have the Ironmaster 120lb bells and have used the plates on standard bars. I got a standard tricep bomber and EZ curl and a bunch of other stuff thrown in with the Ironmaster bells that I bought on Craigslist. I flipped the extras but I did try the bars with the plates just for fun. If you clamp everything down, it's pretty stable. With a very dynamic movement like a clean, it might come loose... I guess it depends on the collar. They'd probably rotate if you don't set the weight down flat. But I don't see why this would be more of a concern than the construction of the PowerBlock. The PowerBlock barbell only has one side that faces up. The Ironmaster plates on a generic standard bar has 4 sides that can face up.

That's interesting, the concern isn't about which side is facing up, it's about whether the plates will remain stable on the bar while lifting it.

Starting Strength specifies that you use Olympic weights, not standard weights or Ironmaster barbells or Powerblock barbells.

I have absolutely no doubt that even Mark Rippetoe would say that if you had the Ivanko "standard" bar with rotating sleeves and a 1,000lb weight limit, along with say 600lb's in standard plates, that there's absolutely no reason to bother selling it and buying an olympic set. All your body cares about is if you can lift the weight (in reasonable increments) with proper form.

If you want to race in Le Tour de France then you should buy the appropriate bicycle, not a unicycle. But if all you have is a unicycle, you can use it to get from point A to point B.

And as a regular road biker, there's always guys thinking they can buy a $5,000 bike, full kit, show up to a serious group ride and keep up - and they can't. In fact, they can't even keep up on the semi-serious group rides. Lance Armstrong (especially if he was doping, lol) could take a $600 bike and beat everyone on the ride.

If you can do the same lifts at home with the Ironmaster stuff, with proper form, your body doesn't in the slightest that you're not using differently shaped weights.

There are many dumbbell variants of exercises. If you do a youtube or google search for "dumbbell squat", for example, you'll find many examples. We don't always have everything that we want, but it's best to do what we can with what we have.

As I mentioned, I'm just not sure the variants are really the same exercise, or how close they are. The squat is a pretty complex movement that uses your entire body - some of them only use half your body, or it's difficult to keep the weights in the right place, etc.

[brucedelaney]

OP, Do you work for PowerBlock?

Because this seems more like you're defending the product like you stand to lose commissions if anyone buys in to any of the common sense arguments against using them with a fixed straight or curl bar configuration.

If you don't work for PowerBlock and you honestly believe this is the best product for you to purchase and achieve your personal fitness goals, then I think you should buy the set and enjoy it.

Not post multiple threads and argue everyone's advice that you had asked for in the first place just to raise your post count.

Just my 2 Cents...

[PaulRivers]

I meant a weight set with bar and dumbbells. A weight set means bar and plates. You can do cleans with dumbbells actually, sucks though.

And if we're talking about compact home gyms, you need some fancy rack/stand setup to do back squats safely. Or get a trap bar. Or you're limited to the weight you can clean. Or you can clean a bit more doing front squats. Or you can do jefferson squats and lunges. Nothing beats the back squat, especially for a beginner. But you can make do.

Yeah, I heard some talk about being able to use a trap bar to do squats. Rippetoe's opinion (from the web) was that the trap bar was actually closer to a squat exercise than it was a deadlift.

You do need some sort of setup to do squats safely by yourself, but there are options. Ironmind makes the most compact and easily setup/teardown/compact setup, but it's expensive. The New York Barbell Titan squat rack would work as well. It's true that equipment to be able to squat safely is definitely the largest and most expensive part.

I don't think people expect to get the same quality workout with a home weight set as they would in a decent gym. You have to compromise, your progress will be slower, you'll have to put in more time. But the biggest problem for many will be the weight they can load after working out consistently.

I hope I'm not just being overly technical on your wording here, but without space limitations you can definitely get the exact same workout in less time than you do by going to the gym.

My apologies if you're only talking about limited space situations. Right now you can get the same workout as at a gym for beginner and intermediate works with the more compact or collapsible ironmind or tds stuff I mentioned earlier, plus a barbell, bench, and weight tree. Don't have the experience to say with the advanced stuff. That's a "semi limited" space situation - like if you don't mind the barbell sitting up against the wall in your bedroom.

But you don't need 1000 lb bar, just 500 for beginners. Most people will stop there, most crossfit athletes don't have 600 lb deadlifts, don't need them for functional strength/looks goals.

Agree 100%. 400lbs would probably be acceptable for people just looking to get in shape. 350lbs seems to be a fairly standard olympic plate set.

Oly sets can be compact. A 6' bar with 15" sleeves will fit a bunch of 45s, 25s, 10s. Probably fit 360 lbs of varying plates. If you have a bunch more 45s then you can fit more. And even if you have a stack on floor of 45s, 25s, take up 2 square feet, then a stack of 10 lb plates taking up .5 square foot, it's pretty compact. Powerblocks are what, 1.5 square feet?

Yeah...I'm not disagreeing, they're "fairly" compact. But you'll end up with a weight set in the corner of a room somewhere. I mean, not the end of the world, but would be nice to have something that goes out of sight completely. :-)

[PaulRivers]

I think you could split the difference on this and say
Most people who have home gyms don't have the room or $$$ to invest in a full set of commercial style dumbbells so Powerblock or Ironmaster are an ideal solution for a high percentage of those that workout at home.

A significantly smaller percentage with home gyms need a slick solution for a curl or straight bar set-up like this as an Olympic set of weights seems to be the standard. So while it's probably a fine product it's not a breakthrough product like a high quality easy to use set of adjustable dumbbells.

Yeah, I agree for the most part - like I said earlier I put a bunch of research into the topic, and it was the squat that keeps a home dumbell workout set from being pretty much as good as a gym. And maybe the deadlift...not sure about that one.

But I agree - the powerblock bar is a "promising in the right direction, but not quite there" kind of product. :-(

[PaulRivers]

OP, Do you work for PowerBlock?

Because this seems more like you're defending the product like you stand to lose commissions if anyone buys in to any of the common sense arguments against using them with a fixed straight or curl bar configuration.

If you don't work for PowerBlock and you honestly believe this is the best product for you to purchase and achieve your personal fitness goals, then I think you should buy the set and enjoy it.

Not post multiple threads and argue everyone's advice that you had asked for in the first place just to raise your post count.

Just my 2 Cents...

An entire thread where I listed out the numerous disadvantages, and if anything thought that Ironmaster was probably the closest to doing the job, and you're conclusion is that I work for Powerblock?? And past 50, I couldn't care less about my post count.

I have a bit of an obsession with trying to get a compact, home workout system that I can hide away when not using. If you don't want to hear about...it's a forum...don't read the thread. It was interesting to me to hear other people's opinions (and experiences) with the Ironmaster stuff on a barbell.

[sherman]

Think outside the botox.

How about a little specialty bar for deadlifts, and whatever else you can think of. You don't need much grip length for deadlifting, a little more than shoulder width. But if you are a strong lifter you do need lots of plate space. Something like this.



(It can be made in the dufus factory.)

[brucedelaney]

An entire thread where I listed out the numerous disadvantages, and if anything thought that Ironmaster was probably the closest to doing the job, and you're conclusion is that I work for Powerblock?? And past 50, I couldn't care less about my post count.

I have a bit of an obsession with trying to get a compact, home workout system that I can hide away when not using. If you don't want to hear about...it's a forum...don't read the thread. It was interesting to me to hear other people's opinions (and experiences) with the Ironmaster stuff on a barbell.

So why start a 2nd thread about it? Instead of posting in this one http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...83&pagenumber=

Which as pointed out by the 2nd poster of this thread and linked to that you posted in multiple times?

[Stasher1]

Starting Strength specifies that you use Olympic weights, not standard weights or Ironmaster barbells or Powerblock barbells.

I have absolutely no doubt that even Mark Rippetoe would say that if you had the Ivanko "standard" bar with rotating sleeves and a 1,000lb weight limit, along with say 600lb's in standard plates, that there's absolutely no reason to bother selling it and buying an olympic set. All your body cares about is if you can lift the weight (in reasonable increments) with proper form.

Your point is moot as there is no commercially available standard bar with rotating sleeves and a 1000lb capacity, Ivanko or otherwise.

Also, here is Mark Rippetoe's statment on bars and plates, taken directly from Starting Strength, Basic Barbell Training, 3rd Edition:

All real weight rooms are equipped with standard barbell plates with a 2-inch center hole. The little plates with a 1-inch hole are referred to as "exercise plates," and are not useful since no good bar is commercially produced for them.

[Muscle Mania Matt]

I just want to point out that most of these bar weight limits are tested under static conditions. For example, you can easily bend a bar rated (statically) for 750 with under 400 lbs, provided you accelerate fast enough. This is why most good oly bars are tested dynamically, "punching" the center of the bar with over 2000 lbs of accelerated force.

Carry on.

[PaulRivers]

Think outside the botox.

How about a little specialty bar for deadlifts, and whatever else you can think of. You don't need much grip length for deadlifting, a little more than shoulder width. But if you are a strong lifter you do need lots of plate space. Something like this.



(It can be made in the dufus factory.)

Squatting would be the other big one - but imo, you don't need a huge bar for squatting either...does a shorter bar inherently have lower weight limit though?

If there was something like that that took ironmaster plates, it might be ideal - rotating collar, and small enough to hide under the couch in an apartment.

[PaulRivers]

Your point is moot as there is no commercially available standard bar with rotating sleeves and a 1000lb capacity, Ivanko or otherwise.

I thought the Ivanko bar had rotating sleeves, but looking at their site it's possible I'm wrong. I emailed them, I'll post if I hear back from them. It is definitely rated for 1,000 pounds.

Also, here is Mark Rippetoe's statment on bars and plates, taken directly from Starting Strength, Basic Barbell Training, 3rd Edition:

His hyperbole relies on the idea that there are no standard bars. The Ivanko looks like the exception to that...though admittedly, if it doesn't have rotating sleeves like I thought it did, then I'm not nearly as sure about whether it would be considered an acceptable bar or not.

[PaulRivers]

I just want to point out that most of these bar weight limits are tested under static conditions. For example, you can easily bend a bar rated (statically) for 750 with under 400 lbs, provided you accelerate fast enough. This is why most good oly bars are tested dynamically, "punching" the center of the bar with over 2000 lbs of accelerated force.

Carry on.

I would think with an Ivanko bar, a company that makes some high end equipment, they would test it decently. However, even a 500lb weight limit would be fine for most people who aren't professional competitors.

[morebarbell]

That's interesting, the concern isn't about which side is facing up, it's about whether the plates will remain stable on the bar while lifting it.

I'm not sure what you mean by stable. The weights can be clamped tightly with good collars just like regular standard plates. I like to use spinlock collars since failure would only occur if the collars became loose AND completely unwound from the bar. If the plates rotate, it doesn't prevent them from being lifted unless the collars aren't secure. The plates won't rotate if you buy the Ironmaster bars for $75. Because of the uneven distribution of the weight on the Powerblock barbells, the bar will want to rotate in your hands. Watch the video demo and you'll see the bar rotate in some of the exercises.

I have absolutely no doubt that even Mark Rippetoe would say that if you had the Ivanko "standard" bar with rotating sleeves and a 1,000lb weight limit, along with say 600lb's in standard plates, that there's absolutely no reason to bother selling it and buying an olympic set. All your body cares about is if you can lift the weight (in reasonable increments) with proper form.

There are no commercially produced standard bars with rotating sleeves and there will never be any standard bars with rotating sleeves and a 1000 lb weight limit. You can't have both rotating sleeves and a 1000 lb weight limit with a 1" diameter bar. Olympic bars win.

If you follow a program and change some of the rules, you are no longer really following the program. Read the book. Read other books. Learn from others at the gym and on the net. Use everything you have the best way that you can. Train hard.

[Detrus]

Your point is moot as there is no commercially available standard bar with rotating sleeves and a 1000lb capacity, Ivanko or otherwise.

You can live without the rotating sleeves. The plates will spin on a smooth sleeve non-spinlock bar. Of course how they spin depends on the quality of the hole, slop between hole and bar. If you buy some cheap olympic bar, those sleeves spin terribly or not at all. And with the slop on the plates, the sleeve spin may not even be activated, instead the plates themselves spin just like on standard non-spinlocks.



Standard plates spin well enough on dumbbells when they're set up for the purpose.

That said, you can easily find quality olympic bars with proper sleeves and plates with proper fit. Most bumper plates, the plates you really need to spin, will have a consistent size hole. You can't easily find well machined standard plates with proper holes. The large 50 lb plates you can get new, made by CAP have utterly horrible holes. Weider is another seller, also has a bad rep for quality.

I'm not sure Ivanko's B-86 was available when SS was released and even today very few people are aware of it since Ivanko does not care to market it. But it is a quality commercial bar.