*** New Official Rugby Thread ***

[JonnoAUS]

The NRL season about to kick off here too.

[krakkerz]

For newguy

Our off-season program looks a bit like this:

Monday: Full Body Weight Training
Tuesday: Tempo or conditioning (depends on what you're developing - for you, probably tempo)
Wednesday:Full Body weights
Thursday: Tempo or conditioning (Optional)
Friday: Full body weights
Saturday: Tempo or conditioning (Optional)

They have to do one of the two sessions listed as optional.

If you're new to this, you might get away with 2 full body sessions per week.

Most of the time, I tell people to use Starting Strength, but I have a different program I've used with younger guys before. Create two workouts with a pressing movement and a pulling movement and alternate them every training day. You can do a bit of extra work here if you want to impress the girls. If you know you can handle the weights, go for a 5x5 or similar approach.

For lower body, On monday, do squats and glute-ham raises. On friday, do deadlifts and glute-ham raises. On the wednesday, unload a little and do single leg work (Split squats, one leg deadlifts, step-up squats, etc).

Do your core work however you like. I prefer to do it on lower body days, but I'm moving away from crunches and leg raises the more I read about back injuries. I use a moving planks with your age group.

Example workout:

Upper body A:
Incline Bench - 4-6 x 4-6
Pullup or DB Row - 4-6 x 8-10
Pushdowns - 2-3 x 8-12

Upper Body B:
DB Shoulder Press - 4-6 x 4-6 (If your shoulders can tolerate it - otherwise use something like a W press, or axe it and do dips)
Pullup - 2 sets AMRAP - Get at least 12. If you need assistance, go ahead.
Curls - for the girls - whatever sets and reps you like

Monday Lower:
Squat 3-5 sets. Alternate week to week low reps (4-6) with high reps (15+). This is because I don't think younger guys need to load the squat up every week.
Glute Ham Raises 4 x 5-8

Wednesday Lower:
Rear leg up split squat - 3-4 x 8-12
Romanian Deadlift - 2-4 x 8-12

Friday Lower:
Deadlift - Work up to a good set of 3-5. Not quite max - maybe 90%
Glute Ham Raise - Glute Ham Raises 4 x 5-8

Before training (and after warmup) do some start work and short sprints. Mostly, I like to either do 2 sets of 5 reps of 20m with plenty of rest or 10 reps of 10m in 10 minutes. Short, sweet, simple. Do this or sets of broad jumps and verticals twice per week.

For tempo work, run a bunch of 60s and hundreds. Run relatively easy (They say 75%) but with good sprint form. If it starts getting to be hard, stop and go home.

There you go. I think that's about the most comprehensive training you could manage without direct supervision. It's important to note, though, that you should be in sport to have fun. Keep that in mind. You want to always view a Rugby game as a place to have fun. Not to test what you've done in the gym.

Edit: Geez, that's a big post. I'm not proofing it, so if I've ballsed something up, don't crucify me, people.

[krakkerz]

The NRL season about to kick off here too.

I grew up on league, but it doesn't excite me the way Rugby does. With that said, looking forward to the Knights gaining some consistency this year.

[JonnoAUS]

I'm a Storm fan....so I've been pretty happy after last year!

[thenewguy23]

Krakkers my program atm is like this:

WORKOUT 1

Power Clean/Hang Clean: 3x3
Back Squat: 3x5
BB Flat Bench: 3x5
Front Raises 2x10
Chinups: 3 max sets
Shrugs SS Facepulls: 3 sets 8-12 reps


WORKOUT 2

Front Squat: 3x5
DB Flat/Incline Bench: 4x8
BB Row: 3x8
SLDL: 3x8
Vertical Pulldown Variation: 3x10
DB Curls 3x10

WORKOUT 3

Power Clean/Hang clean: 3x3
Back Squat: 3x5
BB Flat Bench: 3x5
Chinups: 3 Max Sets
DB Row 3x8
Shrugs SS Tricep Pushdowns 3 sets 8 reps


All core lifts will progress linearly weekly by 2.5kg-5kg. 3 full body workouts on Tue, Thu, Sat and basketball on Wed, Sprint training Monday and plyos whenever I can fit them in. I'll try and introduce some of the exercises you suggested, especially legs since all I do is squat and clean. I also want to ask why theres no oly lifts in your program?

[krakkerz]

Krakkers my program atm is like this:

WORKOUT 1

Power Clean/Hang Clean: 3x3
Back Squat: 3x5
BB Flat Bench: 3x5
Front Raises 2x10
Chinups: 3 max sets
Shrugs SS Facepulls: 3 sets 8-12 reps


WORKOUT 2

Front Squat: 3x5
DB Flat/Incline Bench: 4x8
BB Row: 3x8
SLDL: 3x8
Vertical Pulldown Variation: 3x10
DB Curls 3x10

WORKOUT 3

Power Clean/Hang clean: 3x3
Back Squat: 3x5
BB Flat Bench: 3x5
Chinups: 3 Max Sets
DB Row 3x8
Shrugs SS Tricep Pushdowns 3 sets 8 reps


All core lifts will progress linearly weekly by 2.5kg-5kg. 3 full body workouts on Tue, Thu, Sat and basketball on Wed, Sprint training Monday and plyos whenever I can fit them in. I'll try and introduce some of the exercises you suggested, especially legs since all I do is squat and clean. I also want to ask why theres no oly lifts in your program?

You know what? That's a perfectly good program. And with the basketball and sprint work, you've got a the speed and agility work well covered. I wouldn't change anything that's working!

[Rustlemyleaves]

i need a bit of help in developing my intra season workout, i still want to progress and make gains as much as possible but i think im gonna find it hard to balance adequate gym time around playing and training. Games are on Sunday and training is on tuesday and friday. What would be the best way to work in gym into the week with allowing enough recovery between each so i can make good gains still.

p.s i dont know any olympic lifts and im doing starting strength atm.
and also what are a few plyometric and sports specific exercises i can do that will help my game, ill probably be playing front row or a forward of some type.

[BreezerD]

Since it's preseason for most people now, and people are making posts asking what they should be doing, this is what I recommend if you train Tues/Thurs. Gym work should be mostly compound work in sets of 5-8, no more than 4 compound exercises per session. This also assumes you do reasonably intense fitness on Tuesdays and Thursdays. This program also makes a fine base for an in-season program.

Mon: Lifting
Tue: Training
Wed: Lifting
Thur: Training
Fri: Rest
Sat: Lighter Lifting (good day for olympic lift variations) + speed work/alactic conditioning ie 100-400m intervals, prowler pushes, sled pulls, circuits, etc.
Sun: Rest or low intensity slow speed running for recovery and light aerobic work

The lifting I do is:

Mon:
Squat 3sets
Bench 3sets
Row 4sets
Death March (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o_lal2jpQc)

Wed:
DL 1set
OHP 3sets
Pullups 3sets (no reliable way of adding weight atm so getting pretty ridiculous volume, not ideal, may drop to 2 sets soon)
Death March

Sat:
Power Clean 3x3
Dips 3xF
Curl 3xF


Personally my alactic conditioning is pretty bad from years of powerlifting and resting 10mins between sets of squats, so what I'm doing is (while keeping rest periods down) increasing the reps on each exercise by 1 every week. Once they get to 10 I'll back down to around 5 and do 4 sets and work the weight back up. I started at:

Squat: 6 (been doing 5s and below my entire 4 year lifting career)
Bench: 4
DL: 5
OHP: 6
Row: 6

[scott_donald]

Since it's preseason for most people now, and people are making posts asking what they should be doing, this is what I recommend if you train Tues/Thurs. Gym work should be mostly compound work in sets of 5-8, no more than 4 compound exercises per session. This also assumes you do reasonably intense fitness on Tuesdays and Thursdays. This program also makes a fine base for an in-season program.

Mon: Lifting
Tue: Training
Wed: Lifting
Thur: Training
Fri: Rest
Sat: Lighter Lifting (good day for olympic lift variations) + speed work/alactic conditioning ie 100-400m intervals, prowler pushes, sled pulls, circuits, etc.
Sun: Rest or low intensity slow speed running for recovery and light aerobic work

The lifting I do is:

Mon:
Squat 3sets
Bench 3sets
Row 4sets
Death March (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o_lal2jpQc)

Wed:
DL 1set
OHP 3sets
Pullups 3sets (no reliable way of adding weight atm so getting pretty ridiculous volume, not ideal, may drop to 2 sets soon)
Death March

Sat:
Power Clean 3x3
Dips 3xF
Curl 3xF


Personally my alactic conditioning is pretty bad from years of powerlifting and resting 10mins between sets of squats, so what I'm doing is (while keeping rest periods down) increasing the reps on each exercise by 1 every week. Once they get to 10 I'll back down to around 5 and do 4 sets and work the weight back up. I started at:

Squat: 6 (been doing 5s and below my entire 4 year lifting career)
Bench: 4
DL: 5
OHP: 6
Row: 6

thats pretty interesting... but very specific to you and what your weaknesses are...

i am not a fan of generic programs... everything needs to be specific... taking into account aims - strengths and weaknesses - the time of the training year...

[ruckin]

i need a bit of help in developing my intra season workout, i still want to progress and make gains as much as possible but i think im gonna find it hard to balance adequate gym time around playing and training. Games are on Sunday and training is on tuesday and friday. What would be the best way to work in gym into the week with allowing enough recovery between each so i can make good gains still.

p.s i dont know any olympic lifts and im doing starting strength atm.
and also what are a few plyometric and sports specific exercises i can do that will help my game, ill probably be playing front row or a forward of some type.

i practice/train with my team every monday & wednesday (walkthroughs on friday), and games on saturday. in the fall i did this gym split and i found it to be pretty effective for me:

sun: chest
mon OR tues: back (rest on whatever day i didn't do back)
wed: shoulders
thur: legs
fri: rest
sat: rugby

during the offseason/preseason though, i hit every muscle group twice a week.

[krakkerz]

Since it's preseason for most people now, and people are making posts asking what they should be doing, this is what I recommend if you train Tues/Thurs. Gym work should be mostly compound work in sets of 5-8, no more than 4 compound exercises per session. This also assumes you do reasonably intense fitness on Tuesdays and Thursdays. This program also makes a fine base for an in-season program.

Mon: Lifting
Tue: Training
Wed: Lifting
Thur: Training
Fri: Rest
Sat: Lighter Lifting (good day for olympic lift variations) + speed work/alactic conditioning ie 100-400m intervals, prowler pushes, sled pulls, circuits, etc.
Sun: Rest or low intensity slow speed running for recovery and light aerobic work

The lifting I do is:

Mon:
Squat 3sets
Bench 3sets
Row 4sets
Death March (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o_lal2jpQc)

Wed:
DL 1set
OHP 3sets
Pullups 3sets (no reliable way of adding weight atm so getting pretty ridiculous volume, not ideal, may drop to 2 sets soon)
Death March

Sat:
Power Clean 3x3
Dips 3xF
Curl 3xF


Personally my alactic conditioning is pretty bad from years of powerlifting and resting 10mins between sets of squats, so what I'm doing is (while keeping rest periods down) increasing the reps on each exercise by 1 every week. Once they get to 10 I'll back down to around 5 and do 4 sets and work the weight back up. I started at:

Squat: 6 (been doing 5s and below my entire 4 year lifting career)
Bench: 4
DL: 5
OHP: 6
Row: 6

I like this layout. I like the exercise selection, too.

[swolepatrole]

thats pretty interesting... but very specific to you and what your weaknesses are...

i am not a fan of generic programs... everything needs to be specific... taking into account aims - strengths and weaknesses - the time of the training year...

Nice words from the master of Tao over here. It seems like your responses say less and less recently.

I understand that building a program 100% tailored to the athlete is going to be the best solution, but until everyone can afford a good chunk of hours from their own S&C Pro, the generic stuff will have to do.

At least it gets them started while they use the money not spent on a coach to (let's hope, for their sake) grow their own knowledge on things like nutrition, mobility/flexibility, good lifting form, and methods to assess deficiencies.

tl;dr - I understand where you're coming from, but "get a coach" isn't the only answer, especially here.

[krakkerz]

I agree wholeheartedly. Especially when it comes to groups of club level athletes.

With that said, I believe scott_donald was referring to the fact that the poster made the recommendation that this is suitable for everyone and then mentioned it being designed to address his specific weaknesses. In that context, it reads differently to me.

[StrongmanSteve]

Sup brahs. Former football player/power lifter here. I'm a bit late as season started a couple weeks ago, but my first rugby practice is on Thursday!

[swolepatrole]

I agree wholeheartedly. Especially when it comes to groups of club level athletes.

With that said, I believe scott_donald was referring to the fact that the poster made the recommendation that this is suitable for everyone and then mentioned it being designed to address his specific weaknesses. In that context, it reads differently to me.

I gotcha. Good point.

In other news, what are your thoughts on tossing some plyo/agility in between sets of heavy squats or deadlifts?

Quick schedule:

Sat - Rugby Match/Tourney (if no match, i usually put together a long WOD for fitness)
Sun - heavy squat/standing press & short WOD/metcon
Mon - heavy pulling (either DL or oly lift, i usually alternate weeks) & short metcon - then if time permits, speed & agility work in a second workout
Tues - no weights, just rugby practice in the evening (may toss in some yoga/mobility in the morning)
Wed - metcon/wod (nothing heavy) - then if time permits i'l do a longer jog (3-5miles) in a second workout
Thurs - squat & bench, then practice in the evening
Fri - Rest

The schedule has worked pretty well for me: I don't remember being sore since the first week (on week 6 now of this schedule) and my feet never feel heavy on game days (in fact teammates have noted my improved conditioning and speed).

I wanted to add a some real simple plyo and agility work in between sets on the days I go heavy. Nothing crazy, maybe just low rep box/broad jump variations and short shuttles or cone drills. Good idea, or risking overtraining?

[ruckin]

Sup brahs. Former football player/power lifter here. I'm a bit late as season started a couple weeks ago, but my first rugby practice is on Thursday!

awesome dude, do you play for a school?

[krakkerz]

In other news, what are your thoughts on tossing some plyo/agility in between sets of heavy squats or deadlifts?

Quick schedule:

Sat - Rugby Match/Tourney (if no match, i usually put together a long WOD for fitness)
Sun - heavy squat/standing press & short WOD/metcon
Mon - heavy pulling (either DL or oly lift, i usually alternate weeks) & short metcon - then if time permits, speed & agility work in a second workout
Tues - no weights, just rugby practice in the evening (may toss in some yoga/mobility in the morning)
Wed - metcon/wod (nothing heavy) - then if time permits i'l do a longer jog (3-5miles) in a second workout
Thurs - squat & bench, then practice in the evening
Fri - Rest

The schedule has worked pretty well for me: I don't remember being sore since the first week (on week 6 now of this schedule) and my feet never feel heavy on game days (in fact teammates have noted my improved conditioning and speed).

I wanted to add a some real simple plyo and agility work in between sets on the days I go heavy. Nothing crazy, maybe just low rep box/broad jump variations and short shuttles or cone drills. Good idea, or risking overtraining?

I don't like the word overtraining. Nonetheless, I don't think so if you do it judiciously. contrast training has been used for a long time. Programming it right is the trick. It's only really for advanced people. But, if you program it correctly, no problem.

Here's a DeFranco article that has some hints on programming https://www.defrancostraining.com/as...-training.html
And a Tumminello one with good exercise selections. http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...size_and_power


There is also French Contrast training that works on 4 motor qualities.

I've only used it with a couple of people in the last 12 months because:
1. I work mostly with juniors and clubbies who train frequently without supervision.
2. I, myself am old and have different training goals.
3. People are lazy and I don't want to see injuries.

I have guys who have used it this off-season. One loves it, the other not so much. He doesn't like it because he needs it, though.

[StrongmanSteve]

awesome dude, do you play for a school?

Yes. I play for a Cal State University.

[swolepatrole]

I don't like the word overtraining. Nonetheless, I don't think so if you do it judiciously. contrast training has been used for a long time. Programming it right is the trick. It's only really for advanced people. But, if you program it correctly, no problem.

Here's a DeFranco article that has some hints on programming https://www.defrancostraining.com/as...-training.html
And a Tumminello one with good exercise selections. http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...size_and_power


There is also French Contrast training that works on 4 motor qualities.

I've only used it with a couple of people in the last 12 months because:
1. I work mostly with juniors and clubbies who train frequently without supervision.
2. I, myself am old and have different training goals.
3. People are lazy and I don't want to see injuries.

I have guys who have used it this off-season. One loves it, the other not so much. He doesn't like it because he needs it, though.

Awesome mate thanks for the info. I'd rep if it'd allow me.

[scott_donald]

I agree wholeheartedly. Especially when it comes to groups of club level athletes.

With that said, I believe scott_donald was referring to the fact that the poster made the recommendation that this is suitable for everyone and then mentioned it being designed to address his specific weaknesses. In that context, it reads differently to me.

yes the general template is fine...

but the rep schemes etc...all tailored to him and where he needs to work on!!!

its smily done... take a generic program and tweak if for you...

Nice words from the master of Tao over here. It seems like your responses say less and less recently.

I understand that building a program 100% tailored to the athlete is going to be the best solution, but until everyone can afford a good chunk of hours from their own S&C Pro, the generic stuff will have to do.

At least it gets them started while they use the money not spent on a coach to (let's hope, for their sake) grow their own knowledge on things like nutrition, mobility/flexibility, good lifting form, and methods to assess deficiencies.

tl;dr - I understand where you're coming from, but "get a coach" isn't the only answer, especially here.

i agree...

the lifts there could all be changed... as far as o lifting being less strain on the body... they are in nature fast lifts and speed has to be maintained at high percentages in order for the lift to succeed... so to me they stress the CNS highly... much more than a bench press would... but thats specific to his exercise choices... and his goals from the lifting...

the lifting i am doing right now -

lower
lower/upper
upper

simple 4 sessions a week with a tabata thrown in between the 4 sessions... not looking forward to lunch time for the tababa...

if the player has a speed weakness and isn't directly addressing that then whats the point...

my stand off from my team cant kick and is very talented except that... i have him coming in with the stand off from the school first 15 and we do an hour or specific work on his handling and kicking as a ten every tuesday after school...

he also has a weakness in his shoulder - he is addressing that through a physio...

i would say doing double sessions should be fine pre season as long as you peak for the first game... running morning, weights lunch or later...

since i am no longer playing rugby due to work commitments and having a year group to look after every saturday - i am in continual off season right now and training dam hard and bar my lacking speed right now i am in awesome shape.... and doing the as mentioned above...

I gotcha. Good point.

In other news, what are your thoughts on tossing some plyo/agility in between sets of heavy squats or deadlifts?

Quick schedule:

Sat - Rugby Match/Tourney (if no match, i usually put together a long WOD for fitness)
Sun - heavy squat/standing press & short WOD/metcon
Mon - heavy pulling (either DL or oly lift, i usually alternate weeks) & short metcon - then if time permits, speed & agility work in a second workout
Tues - no weights, just rugby practice in the evening (may toss in some yoga/mobility in the morning)
Wed - metcon/wod (nothing heavy) - then if time permits i'l do a longer jog (3-5miles) in a second workout
Thurs - squat & bench, then practice in the evening
Fri - Rest

The schedule has worked pretty well for me: I don't remember being sore since the first week (on week 6 now of this schedule) and my feet never feel heavy on game days (in fact teammates have noted my improved conditioning and speed).

I wanted to add a some real simple plyo and agility work in between sets on the days I go heavy. Nothing crazy, maybe just low rep box/broad jump variations and short shuttles or cone drills. Good idea, or risking overtraining?

impressed you can lift heavy after a game... we used to just do a pool session the next day to recover and that did me fine!!!

as far as plyos between sets... try it and see... jsut watch it does effect your individual lifts... it should be fine... but again it all depends on what you choose between...

simple to do heavy squat then box jumps straight after... but then how does that directly affect each of those lifts done correctly...

as far as agility work i am a fan of doing that fresh to learn the motions and teach the body what is needed... then doing it under fatigue to mirror a game more clearly once you have learned the patterns etc...

I don't like the word overtraining. Nonetheless, I don't think so if you do it judiciously. contrast training has been used for a long time. Programming it right is the trick. It's only really for advanced people. But, if you program it correctly, no problem.

Here's a DeFranco article that has some hints on programming https://www.defrancostraining.com/as...-training.html
And a Tumminello one with good exercise selections. http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...size_and_power


There is also French Contrast training that works on 4 motor qualities.

I've only used it with a couple of people in the last 12 months because:
1. I work mostly with juniors and clubbies who train frequently without supervision.
2. I, myself am old and have different training goals.
3. People are lazy and I don't want to see injuries.

I have guys who have used it this off-season. One loves it, the other not so much. He doesn't like it because he needs it, though.

over reaching... then letting the body catch up!!!

[BreezerD]

scott: The idea of my post was that it gave people who don't know what they are doing an idea on how to structure a preseason/inseason program. I believe that exercise selection is pretty much ideal for anyone who doesn't have some super unique training demands, and the only thing that needs to be customised for the athlete is what is done in the team training sessions and the Saturday sprint/conditioning/etc session. The only aspect of the program which has been customised for me is the increase in reps every week, but I think any athlete could do that in the preseason and see a benefit from it given the increased conditioning focus of the training sessions as reps increase.

In short, the program I wrote is basically written for people who don't have the knowledge necessary to effectively design their own program/tweak a program.

[scott_donald]

scott: The idea of my post was that it gave people who don't know what they are doing an idea on how to structure a preseason/inseason program. I believe that exercise selection is pretty much ideal for anyone who doesn't have some super unique training demands, and the only thing that needs to be customised for the athlete is what is done in the team training sessions and the Saturday sprint/conditioning/etc session. The only aspect of the program which has been customised for me is the increase in reps every week, but I think any athlete could do that in the preseason and see a benefit from it given the increased conditioning focus of the training sessions as reps increase.

In short, the program I wrote is basically written for people who don't have the knowledge necessary to effectively design their own program/tweak a program.

as a basic layout yes i liked it...

[swolepatrole]

Scott and Krakkerz. I owe you both a couple rounds of reps. Thanks for the info. VERY useful!

And yeah Scott, the sunday lift takes about 45mins to warmup for a 20min workout. Usually plenty of soreness to work/roll/stretch out. I rarely set a PR on Sundays, haha.

[scott_donald]

Scott and Krakkerz. I owe you both a couple rounds of reps. Thanks for the info. VERY useful!

And yeah Scott, the sunday lift takes about 45mins to warmup for a 20min workout. Usually plenty of soreness to work/roll/stretch out. I rarely set a PR on Sundays, haha.

get a journal going!!!

[StrongmanSteve]

First practice was last night. Man am I sore. My thoughts on Rugby so far: Tiring, Confusing, and Fun. They had me practicing with the Forwards at Flanker.
They also said I could play on the B team this Saturday if I wanted, but I don't even know what the hell I'm doing so I think it's better if I get more than one practice before a game.

[krakkerz]

First practice was last night. Man am I sore. My thoughts on Rugby so far: Tiring, Confusing, and Fun. They had me practicing with the Forwards at Flanker.
They also said I could play on the B team this Saturday if I wanted, but I don't even know what the hell I'm doing so I think it's better if I get more than one practice before a game.

I say go and have a go. I'm not sure any flanker knows what their doing, anyway.

On a serious note, it's really a game to learn by doing. Flanker is a great spot to play because there are few specific responsibilities. You go out and get the ball. That's it. Just make sure you understand the rules at the breakdown and you'll be fine.

[quinita17]

I guess I'm bringing estrogen in here. I'm a female playing at eastern Washington university. I'm a lock! Thus is about my fourth year playing rugby....

Anyways I have a game tomorrow afternoon and I wanna know what the best pregame food is?

Normal days I get about 170g carbs and 131g protein. I've already began increasing my carbs.

[Chalky13]

Thanks for the suggestion. You've played a long time and still standing. Stay healthy, and good luck this season,cthulupun.

[Chalky13]

Why take the chance of destroying your legs with 2x body weight, anyway? You have a gift with that kinda speed and strength.

[krakkerz]

REDS RULE! Enough said for those in the southern hemisphere.