IF: Part Three

[ClassyEcdysiast]

and he is not 15% in his avi pic

Agreed. A comment above mentioned going from "20 to 14%" of which the pic obviously isn't and I didn't want to start a discussion about what the exact number is, simply that it's somewhere far above where I would consider the "time to start bulking" phase.

[cumminslifter]

Agreed. A comment above mentioned going from "20 to 14%" of which the pic obviously isn't and I didn't want to start a discussion about what the exact number is, simply that it's somewhere far above where I would consider the "time to start bulking" phase.

his current avi pic shows someone who could easily go on a bulk

[ClassyEcdysiast]

his current avi pic shows someone who could easily go on a bulk

Fine.

I'm still really curious about what's going to go wrong once in single digits, just for my own well-being.

[ccf03]

Serious question, are you guys saying my bf is above or below 14%?

[determined4000]

Serious question, are you guys saying my bf is above or below 14%?

IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT THE NUMBER IS
you look the same, have the same amount of muscle, and strength whether the number was 4%, 14% or 24%
forget about the number and start focusing on what matters--> progress

[Auxe]

this^ no one should get down to 6% unless doing it for something like a show or photo shoot. and he is not 15% in his avi pic

I'm game for seeing if I couldnt simply get down there from peaking during aug/sept from simply doing absurd amounts of cardio lol. inb4 muscle loss

Last eph/caff tab was at like 6pm. I aint sleeping for awhile fuuu


edit: AVI is not what I look like @ current stats

[cumminslifter]

IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT THE NUMBER IS
you look the same, have the same amount of muscle, and strength whether the number was 4%, 14% or 24%
forget about the number and start focusing on what matters--> progress

this^^^ idk why people get so caught up in numbers

[ccf03]

Sorry if that's out of line, I was just curious to have it as a reference or data point. Wouldn't change what is or what I hope to be.

[cumminslifter]

Sorry if that's out of line, I was just curious to have it as a reference or data point. Wouldn't change what is or what I hope to be.

just go by the mirror bro

[Kraxses]

IF doesn't work just ask Ian McCarthy, if you don't eat your protein gets confused and goes to the wrong muscles. thats why you have to eat every 2 hours, 6 meals a day.trust me i am a personal trainer

[Gabriel Anton]

Sorry if that's out of line, I was just curious to have it as a reference or data point. Wouldn't change what is or what I hope to be.

Don't apologize,

Numbers/data is how progress is actually measured other than just an eyeball test in the mirror. Silly to say otherwise

[determined4000]

Sorry if that's out of line, I was just curious to have it as a reference or data point. Wouldn't change what is or what I hope to be.

take a mental (or real) snapshot
use that as a reference point
also take your lift #s and use that as a reference point
also take how you physically feel as a note/reference point

that should dictate what you decide to do

[DuckManx]

I've got a question.

would fat burners break the fast in the morning? I'm doing a 2-8 window started last week and not sure if to take them of go completely cold until the initial feast.

And do you guys continue to count macros in the window?

thanks,
Duck

[Perfect1O]

I've got a question.

would fat burners break the fast in the morning? I'm doing a 2-8 window started last week and not sure if to take them of go completely cold until the initial feast.

And do you guys continue to count macros in the window?

thanks,
Duck

Fat burners, while not terribly useful, are going to have their effects maximized during the fasting window so if you're going to them at all, it's in the morning a ways before your first meal. Trace calories don't matter, so even a coffee and cream won't count as breaking the fast.

Lol definitely count macros. Not eating breakfast is not going to make you superhuman...

[Cnsn08]

I have questions and really important for me,if you answer i'm very glad for you..

I'm follow leanmassing,anyway my questions is I'm doing Fullbody program 3x a week and Monday/Wednesday/Friday but my Off day Sunday i'm playing amateur Football (soccer) 1hours and We're playing night,How should I fed Football Day (like workout days or rest day (less calorie) ? )

And my other question We're going to training Hungry and take only BCAA? can we heavy lifting hungry???

11.30-12 AM or 5-15 minutes pre-workout: 10 g BCAA
12-1 PM: Training
....
....

And How should sleep patterns ?? and Can we take BCAA on Restdays again?

Thank you

[Enlightening]

When we fast we up our adrenal gland production to release more catecholamines (noephedrine, ephedrine) which gives the mental clarity, energy and increase fat mobilisation which is all brilliant. But is there any chance of down-regulating our adrenal glands doing this? I assume no because its more of a spike during fasts then shut off when starting eating again and so if anything would improve their function (like how insulin sensitivity is improved), rather than the constantly elevated levels that a stressful life and caffeine produce, but a friend asked me about it so I was just wanting to make sure.

[Enlightening]

I have questions and really important for me,if you answer i'm very glad for you..

I'm follow leanmassing,anyway my questions is I'm doing Fullbody program 3x a week and Monday/Wednesday/Friday but my Off day Sunday i'm playing amateur Football (soccer) 1hours and We're playing night,How should I fed Football Day (like workout days or rest day (less calorie) ? )

And my other question We're going to training Hungry and take only BCAA? can we heavy lifting hungry???

11.30-12 AM or 5-15 minutes pre-workout: 10 g BCAA
12-1 PM: Training
....
....

And How should sleep patterns ?? and Can we take BCAA on Restdays again?

Thank you

I would count football days as workout days as you are probably going to burn a few hundred calories during that, so slightly higher calories and higher carb, lower fat. But as its in the evening I'd eat beforehand and afterwards e.g.
Fast until 2pm: eat a medium meal or a few small meals until you play football (around 7pm?) then have the rest of your food or a large meal afterwards and stop eating by 10pm (8 hour feeding window).

You don't have to train with BCAA's, but Martin does and I do and feel better for it. Some of my strongest lifts have been after a 16+ hour fast, with BCAA's.


Your sleep pattern is up to you, count sleeping hours as fasted hours and get as much as you need. BCAA's can be used throughout the day to stimulate protein synthesis but if you have a lot you're technically breaking the fast and once you start eating you'll get the protein synthesis stimulus from the food you eat, assuming you're getting adequate protein from good sources (eggs, meat, protein shakes). Plus BCAA's are expensive, I don't use them on rest days but you could if you want.

Hope that answers your questions

[Celtic8Laoch]

Hey guys been doing IF on a 8 hour window for over a year, without knowing I was doing IF ha, not until I actually looked up what it is.

Anyway im currently looking to lose 36lbs in 90 days. I am using IF to curb my appetite while eating a high protein/fat diet with low carb in a 5 hour window. I lift 3 times a week and do cardio 5 times @ 45mins.

My question is can I eat the same everyday for the 90 days or do I need to implement a carb refeed day during the weekend. Im happy sticking to my diet, just wondering is a carb refeed needed?

[east17]

I'm planning to start IF next week (doing 8 hr feed/16 hr fast) but looking for advice on how much calories to consume.

Info/stats - I'm 5ft 6, 45 yrd old. Currently about 23% bf and 163 lbs. Been dieting these past 5-6 weeks and lost about 12-13 lbs and about 3-4% bf. Currently eating around 1300-1400 cals. My BMR is around 1650 ignoring any exercise. Frightened to eat too many calories for fear that I'm not perhaps working out hard enough to counter the extra calories .. plus my head tells me if I'm eating 2000+ cals my weight loss with be very slow.
Exercise wise I'm currently working out 4 days split, taking a day off and then repeating the 4 day split. Normally do around 40-50 min resistance workout followed by 30 mins LISS cardio daily.

So question is do I keep the calories around what they currently are, or do I need to radically up them? For now, with 6 weeks to go before a beach holiday, ripping off as much body fat as possible is my main goal (and minimising muscle loss in the process).

[determined4000]

you should never be eating below BMR

[Auxe]

I've got a question.

would fat burners break the fast in the morning? I'm doing a 2-8 window started last week and not sure if to take them of go completely cold until the initial feast.

And do you guys continue to count macros in the window?

thanks,
Duck

As Perfect said below - you can slam coffee/creamer and fat burners (Most are bleh). I supress hunger with ECY now so its the same idea. Yes, not eating breakfast makes you superhuman

[Auxe]

Hey guys been doing IF on a 8 hour window for over a year, without knowing I was doing IF ha, not until I actually looked up what it is.

Anyway im currently looking to lose 36lbs in 90 days. I am using IF to curb my appetite while eating a high protein/fat diet with low carb in a 5 hour window. I lift 3 times a week and do cardio 5 times @ 45mins.

My question is can I eat the same everyday for the 90 days or do I need to implement a carb refeed day during the weekend. Im happy sticking to my diet, just wondering is a carb refeed needed?

You can carb up, for the most part just stay aware of Protein and not eating your own muscles if you harshly cut. I lost 16~lbs in about 7 Weeks so far cutting, its very possible you can lose that and maintain most of your muscle. Do you really need to do cardio? Sport? or can you just diet it out and lift more often?

Repped for your sig of tree fifty to 200lbs

[abdciii]

Hi, newbie here!...It has been a week since i started IF, i noticed i got weaker since im trying to cut. lost 5 pounds. I have a question though. is drinking a L-carnitine with green coffee extract help me (to lose more fat) in my pre-workout. It has 25 calories and i notice it contains 4g of sugars. will it break my fast since it has sugar in it?

also, i noticed the posts here are getting slower. Im actually beginning to like IF cause i see results. Thank you.

[jimsmith9999]

Hi, newbie here!...It has been a week since i started IF, i noticed i got weaker since im trying to cut. lost 5 pounds. I have a question though. is drinking a L-carnitine with green coffee extract help me (to lose more fat) in my pre-workout. It has 25 calories and i notice it contains 4g of sugars. will it break my fast since it has sugar in it?

No, your concoction won't help you lose fat, and 25 calories in your pre-workout won't matter (Martin set a guidline of 50 calories max in the fasting window, but has said you can have as much as a couple hundred. )

also, i noticed the posts here are getting slower. Im actually beginning to like IF cause i see results. Thank you.

Used to be a hot topic with a lot of posts when IF was the in vouge, flavor of the month. Many folks have moved on from it, or at least realized it for what it is. A useful tool for appetite control for some of us.

[darklight79]

Used to be a hot topic with a lot of posts when IF was the in vouge, flavor of the month. Many folks have moved on from it, or at least realized it for what it is. A useful tool for appetite control for some of us.

Well said. I still do it very regularly and still love it cos it allows me to eat huge, huge meals!

[sdunn96]

Still do it myself and Like it.

[sdunn96]

So Alan Aaragon released his monthly Review....
One of the write ups he did was on a Calorie Shifting Diet (CSD) vs. a Calorie Restriction (CR) diet

By the end of the study, the group in the CSD had greater improvement over those in the CR diet....

greater weight loss
greater fat loss
decrease in RMR was less than those in CR
greater decrease in glucose, total cholesterol and triacylglycerol
less feelings of hunger
Retention rate was better in CSD group vs. CR group.
36.8% dropped out of CR group vs. 15.6% dropped out of CSD group

This study was done over 6 weeks, with a 4 week follow up.

Longer would have been better, but still things to consider.
And would be neat to see a study where they did more an IF style along the lines of LeanGains or something.

[su27]

Ok gentlemen, just thought I'd comment a bit on my experience with IF so far..

As soon as I read about it, I thought it looked like a good idea. It seemed to have plenty of science behind it too. Was mostly worried about two things: (1) losing muscle due to the "eat every 2 to 3 hours" myth and (2) being really hungry during the fasts. Related to (2), I was also worried about being so hungry over a prolonged period of time that I'd end up gorging.

These are my findings, results, and opinions:

1. I've been on IF about 3 weeks now. After the first week, I lost pretty much no weight. I was very discouraged, but thought I'd stick with it. Now, after 3 weeks, I've lost a total of 8.5 pounds and have never felt better. I can't wait to see how much more weight I can lose.

Martin Berkhan was right when he wrote somewhere not to be discouraged even when you don't lose weight over an entire week. So sometimes your weight gain/loss under IF will look something like this:

week 1: 183 pounds
week 2: 183.5 pounds
week 3: 181 pounds

So you might even see a slight increase in weight before it drops down to even lower before. Not sure why the body reacts this way under IF, but it just does and my own experience confirms it. So don't let that first week or two discourage you, stick with IF and keep your food intake relatively healthy and you will see improvements.

2. Muscle development under IF has been slow but steady. And at least I haven't been losing muscle.

3. Surprisingly, I'm not that hungry during the fasts. Well, at the end of the fasts I do start to get pretty hungry, but I'm surprised that I'm not as hungry as I was under the "eat every 2 hours" regime and that my hunger is more suppressed the more I fast. In fact, I find myself trying to see how long I can carry my fast on for, kind of like that Seinfeld episode where Kramer and the car salesman try to drive as far as they can with their car on empty. I almost want to see how far I can push myself.

4. So basically, instead of the 16 hours of fasting, 8 hours of eating I find myself doing more like 18 or 20 hours of fasting, and 4 to 6 hours of eating. I fast more, and eat in a smaller feeding window.

5. My workouts (both weightlifting and cardo) are just as effective as before. Actually I'd say theyre even better now because I find that training on a stomach that isn't full of food from my last meal is even easier.

6. During the fasting period I only drink water and coffee with cream in it. I limit my cream to two small servings, and I make sure that my calorie intake during the fast is less than 50. I prefer cream to milk because it has less sugar (lower GI).

7. I do sometimes end up getting hungry and eating crap. The other day, I caved in and had a Double big mac at mcdonald's, but I don't go all out and gorge as much as I think I would on other diets, ie calorie restriction, low sugar, low carb, atkins etc. I think it's something about the fasting period that over time actually makes my stomach smaller, which results in me needing less food to feel full. It's just something about IF that prevents you from getting out of hand on cheat meals/gorging.

8. It's nice to have a diet where you can still periodically eat sugar, carbs, and junk food. However, you still have to keep it to a minimum. The more junk food, carbs, sugar, and sauces you eliminate from your diet, the more successful you will be on IF. However, even if you don't totally eliminate these things you can still consume some of these things and lose weight. I think having this choice, and still being able to lose weight (although not as rapidly or effectively) really helps in terms of being able to adhere long term to the diet.

9. It does sometimes suck to not be able to eat. Social events or random calls from friends to do stuff gets in the way, and it's these times that make it really difficult to stick to the fast. Another problem time is weekends, especially after a night of clubbing. And when I do cheat, I try to do things like keep food consumption as low as possible, or I at least try to limit intake of sugar or carbs when I do decide to break the fast. It is hard, and sometimes it's difficult to fight the hunger or desire to eat.

Just some of my thoughts so far, hope it helps out some of you guys considering IF!

[Bigd2x0]

Have not been on the forums for probably 2 years now but I got bored and decided I would drop in on a topic that changed the way I eat for the rest of my life.

I used to be one of those yoyo diet types and have tried about every unconventional method of dieting. Keto, low carb, low fat (dumbest of them all), 6 meals a day etc. Every year I would lose track of my nutrition and health and find myself ballooned back up to a sloppy 220.

Found the leangains approach and followed it pretty close to the guidelines while doing 20/4. I went from a fat 220 to a fairly lean 195 (maybe 14-15%) in a few months. Then I had a kid and began working 60-80 hours a week and stopped being meticulous about working out and the composition of my nutrition. The one thing I stuck with was the 20/4 which pretty much disallows me to overconsume calories (In fact I have to drink 2-3 quality beers a day to stay the same weight, damn haha). My body weight always hovers around 195 but my bodyfat fluctuates (13-17%) depending on how much attention is given to the quality of food I eat.

Over the course of 3 years of 20/4 I have found that your body becomes extremely sensitive to the foods you eat as you are essentially training your body to store everything you eat and use your fat stores as energy. Eat shtty calories = look/feel like sht and moreso than any other diet approach I have been on.

I realize at the end of the day that its about the number/quality of calories you consume. IF for me really just makes it easy to not turn into a fat slob again.

I lift 1-2x a week and play sports when I can and have recently begun to dunk a basketball again after going on an 8 year dunking drought. The only thing I hate about IF is having to still contantly explain to people how I can go 20 hours without eating every day. Sorry I did not take the time to break down everything I have done in 3 years and I won't likely be answering any questions so feel free to nitpick. I just felt like letting some person who may be like me know there is another option that can help you avoid obsessing over diet/nutrition/exercise like it's going to be the end of the world if you get sidetracked.

Every night I get to eat like a beast, get thanksgiving full, and drink a couple of beers all while staying in pretty decent shape. I'm not ripped up like a lot of the animals on here but I keep good muscle mass while staying athletic. When I fall off the wagon with my nutrition its pretty easy to get back to where I was since I don't have 40lbs of fat to lose to get back into shape. Done with babbling, happy IF'ing.

[sdunn96]

Ok gentlemen, just thought I'd comment a bit on my experience with IF so far..

As soon as I read about it, I thought it looked like a good idea. It seemed to have plenty of science behind it too. Was mostly worried about two things: (1) losing muscle due to the "eat every 2 to 3 hours" myth and (2) being really hungry during the fasts. Related to (2), I was also worried about being so hungry over a prolonged period of time that I'd end up gorging.

These are my findings, results, and opinions:

1. I've been on IF about 3 weeks now. After the first week, I lost pretty much no weight. I was very discouraged, but thought I'd stick with it. Now, after 3 weeks, I've lost a total of 8.5 pounds and have never felt better. I can't wait to see how much more weight I can lose.

Martin Berkhan was right when he wrote somewhere not to be discouraged even when you don't lose weight over an entire week. So sometimes your weight gain/loss under IF will look something like this:

week 1: 183 pounds
week 2: 183.5 pounds
week 3: 181 pounds

So you might even see a slight increase in weight before it drops down to even lower before. Not sure why the body reacts this way under IF, but it just does and my own experience confirms it. So don't let that first week or two discourage you, stick with IF and keep your food intake relatively healthy and you will see improvements.

2. Muscle development under IF has been slow but steady. And at least I haven't been losing muscle.

3. Surprisingly, I'm not that hungry during the fasts. Well, at the end of the fasts I do start to get pretty hungry, but I'm surprised that I'm not as hungry as I was under the "eat every 2 hours" regime and that my hunger is more suppressed the more I fast. In fact, I find myself trying to see how long I can carry my fast on for, kind of like that Seinfeld episode where Kramer and the car salesman try to drive as far as they can with their car on empty. I almost want to see how far I can push myself.

4. So basically, instead of the 16 hours of fasting, 8 hours of eating I find myself doing more like 18 or 20 hours of fasting, and 4 to 6 hours of eating. I fast more, and eat in a smaller feeding window.

5. My workouts (both weightlifting and cardo) are just as effective as before. Actually I'd say theyre even better now because I find that training on a stomach that isn't full of food from my last meal is even easier.

6. During the fasting period I only drink water and coffee with cream in it. I limit my cream to two small servings, and I make sure that my calorie intake during the fast is less than 50. I prefer cream to milk because it has less sugar (lower GI).

7. I do sometimes end up getting hungry and eating crap. The other day, I caved in and had a Double big mac at mcdonald's, but I don't go all out and gorge as much as I think I would on other diets, ie calorie restriction, low sugar, low carb, atkins etc. I think it's something about the fasting period that over time actually makes my stomach smaller, which results in me needing less food to feel full. It's just something about IF that prevents you from getting out of hand on cheat meals/gorging.

8. It's nice to have a diet where you can still periodically eat sugar, carbs, and junk food. However, you still have to keep it to a minimum. The more junk food, carbs, sugar, and sauces you eliminate from your diet, the more successful you will be on IF. However, even if you don't totally eliminate these things you can still consume some of these things and lose weight. I think having this choice, and still being able to lose weight (although not as rapidly or effectively) really helps in terms of being able to adhere long term to the diet.

9. It does sometimes suck to not be able to eat. Social events or random calls from friends to do stuff gets in the way, and it's these times that make it really difficult to stick to the fast. Another problem time is weekends, especially after a night of clubbing. And when I do cheat, I try to do things like keep food consumption as low as possible, or I at least try to limit intake of sugar or carbs when I do decide to break the fast. It is hard, and sometimes it's difficult to fight the hunger or desire to eat.

Just some of my thoughts so far, hope it helps out some of you guys considering IF!

I have been doing LeanGains since Aug. 6th 2013
A lot of what you listed, I found to be my case as well.

I have never been as lean as I am now....and I don't feel deprived.

And just like your point 4, I find I have the same thing, so it is almost I have to force myself to eat to get my calorie goals in for the day.

Starting Aug this year, I plan on upping calories on my workout days to see if I can put on some mass/weight.