whats the point of believing in god

[notorius1]

You theists seem to blame everything on the inherent imperfection of humans but you quickly praise god for whatever blessing you think you may have received. Are there any theists who maintain some consistency by attributing some evil to god or does that type of intelligence not exist?

[Birdy69]

Location: California

Why don't you turn that argument on yourself OP?

The world is not warm and fuzzy, there are criminals and evil people. There are would-be tyrants and dictators. If you had any intellect, you would recognize that.

So is it not reasonable to assume that we should take note of this fact and therefore carry and be proficient in the use firearms for defensive purposes? As law-abiding citizens we should seek to protect ourselves, our possessions, our loved ones, and those around us.

Not many gun owners expect to be in an incident that would require defensive use of a firearm; they simply recognize that there is at least a small chance that someday they will be able to protect something dear to them or save innocent lives.

TL;DR: If you're not a hypocrite intellectually, you would carry a firearm for defensive purposes and join a gun lobby of your choosing

[Tamorlane]

"Whether the view is held that the world is eternal or not, Malunkyaputta, there is still birth, old age, death, grief, suffering, sorrow and despair � and these can be destroyed in this life! I have not explained these other things because they are not useful, they are not conducive to tranquility and Nirvana. What I have explained is suffering, the cause of suffering, the destruction of suffering and the path that leads to the destruction of suffering. This is useful, leading to non-attachment, the absence of passion, perfect knowledge.�

[stealth_swimmer]

What's the point? It's different for everyone, sometimes there's more than one reason. Usually one of the main reasons is the belief that one will go to heaven.

[Birdy69]

What's the point? It's different for everyone, sometimes there's more than one reason. Usually one of the main reasons is the belief that one will go to heaven.

OP's major point seemed to be the inflexibility and darker aspects of religions such as the Abrahamic ones.

I'm sure OP would be more peaceful with religious people who didn't simply take a popular religion at face value and instead followed an interpretation or even a new belief system that was more peaceful in itself and didn't disregard the inevitable truths of reasoning in favor of ancient mythology.

[badreligion]

It's human nature to have to believe in something , some people turn to Religion others turn to Science to try to get answers on how the world works .

[notorius1]

The world is not warm and fuzzy, there are criminals and evil people. There are would-be tyrants and dictators. If you had any intellect, you would recognize that.

And who created this world full of would-be tyrants and evil people? Humans certainly did not create the evil that exists in this world today.

TL;DR: If you're not a hypocrite intellectually, you would carry a firearm for defensive purposes and join a gun lobby of your choosing

Ive got a secret. Just dont tell the ATF or LASD.

[Birdy69]

And who created this world full of would-be tyrants and evil people? Humans certainly did not create the evil that exists in this world today.

Well as an atheist, I believe that that which belongs to humanity is a human condition; we shouldn't be playing the blame game on something else.

[notorius1]

It's human nature to have to believe in something , some people turn to Religion others turn to Science to try to get answers on how the world works .

Maybe in more primitive times but as society progresses and seeing as how information is spreading much more quickly, the number of people who turn to religion for answers will surely dwindle into non existence.

Religion is a useless vestige of archaic and barbaric times and has no place in any modern civilization except to make the practitioner simply "feel" better.

[PeteratCastle]

Location: California

Why don't you turn that argument on yourself OP?

The world is not warm and fuzzy, there are criminals and evil people. There are would-be tyrants and dictators. If you had any intellect, you would recognize that.

So is it not reasonable to assume that we should take note of this fact and therefore carry and be proficient in the use firearms for defensive purposes? As law-abiding citizens we should seek to protect ourselves, our possessions, our loved ones, and those around us.

Not many gun owners expect to be in an incident that would require defensive use of a firearm; they simply recognize that there is at least a small chance that someday they will be able to protect something dear to them or save innocent lives.

TL;DR: If you're not a hypocrite intellectually, you would carry a firearm for defensive purposes and join a gun lobby of your choosing

Not everything is an argument about guncontrol, birdy

[Birdy69]

Not everything is an argument about guncontrol, birdy

:-P

These proposed gun control bills in the U.S. have me up in arms. Until these bills bite the dust, it'll be that way for a lot of Americans.

[Sargamatha]

You theists seem to blame everything on the inherent imperfection of humans but you quickly praise god for whatever blessing you think you may have received. Are there any theists who maintain some consistency by attributing some evil to god or does that type of intelligence not exist?

Title: "What's the reason to believe in God" lol'd OP, strong logic, let's think....

eternal life
perfect life afterlife
can actually know where everything came from
brb brb

whats the reason to NOT believe in God? none

[notorius1]

Title: "What's the reason to believe in God" lol'd OP, strong logic, let's think....

eternal life
perfect life afterlife
can actually know where everything came from
brb brb

whats the reason to NOT believe in God? none

not if he deems your earthly actions unworthy of eternal life. youre basically wishin' and wantin' and hopin' that god finds you worthy of afterlife. Nice.

[Sargamatha]

not if he deems your earthly actions unworthy of eternal life. youre basically wishin' and wantin' and hopin' that god finds you worthy of afterlife. Nice.

?

We are saved by faith in Jesus, not deeds.
strong understanding of Christianity.


That doesn't mean we should go around behaving like animals, Faith alone, without works, is useless, for if you love God, you'll do as he commands/teaches



1 John 2
We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

7 Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard. 8 Yet I am writing you a new command; its truth is seen in him and in you, because the darkness is passing and the true light is already shining.

9 Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates a brother or sister is still in the darkness. 10 Anyone who loves their brother and sister lives in the light, and there is nothing in them to make them stumble. 11 But anyone who hates a brother or sister is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness. They do not know where they are going, because the darkness has blinded them.

[GregariousWolf]

whats the reason to NOT believe in God?

Lack of physical, reproducible, and measurable evidence?

[Sargamatha]

Lack of physical, reproducible, and measurable evidence?

Same can be said about not believing in God, as there's no evidence to prove he doesn't exist, that being said, there is evidence for God, It's all over the world, and in us, the ffact our DNA when stretched out like a rope could wrap earth 5 million times proves we were not made by natural means.

If you want evidence, get of your smart ass and perhaps become a scientist, rather than taking what others say for granted


Also science keeps changing, and what may be known as evidence for us now, may be a myth or false theory in 100 years, to consider science as the only form of truth is a fallacy, and foolish. Faith however, never changes, yet always keeps up to date

[GregariousWolf]

Faith however, never changes, yet always keeps up to date

I LOLed.

[frontofthepack]

Title: "What's the reason to believe in God" lol'd OP, strong logic, let's think....

eternal life
perfect life afterlife
can actually know where everything came from
brb brb

whats the reason to NOT believe in God? none

so your top reasons for believing in god are;

immortality
paradise
secrets of the universe

[Cablebob]

Most of the time we as people start believing in something at a young age. Sometimes it happens later in life. Many times you find that the belief is false (i.e. Santa, easter bunny, your dad is the strongest man on the planet). But when we believe in something and it continues to work, and we learn more and it make sense, then you will start having "faith" because it works. Like internal combustion engines, we have faith that you car will start, and propel itself down the road because it has so many times in the past. However, there are a few who will never even sit in the car and refuse to believe that it works. Even though they see it working in others lives, they feel a car would not work for them. They will still get down the road, just in a different way.

When you accept Jesus Christ (i.e. Christianity) your heart changes. Many people who claim to be Christians are not. They are church goers and do some good, but when the chips are down they look inside themselves and to their own works for solutions. True Christians still sin, but our hearts are different. We don't believe in God because we want to, we believe in God because we know He's real. He has worked in our lives in ways most people can't explain. There will always be people who don't believe, who hate Christians and God. But that doesn't make him any less real.

So, the answer to your question is. Because God works better than any other thing I've prayed to.

In response to bad people being created...We all have the ability to do horrible things. God doesn't control us. Look up "free will" sometime. But that is a whole different subject.

[notorius1]

In response to bad people being created...We all have the ability to do horrible things. God doesn't control us. Look up "free will" sometime. But that is a whole different subject.

Thats what op is about. No wonder why christianity exists-you fukkers cant read or stay on topic.

[GregariousWolf]

so your top reasons for believing in god are;

immortality
paradise
secrets of the universe

IB4 72 virgins

[Cablebob]

Thats what op is about. No wonder why christianity exists-you fukkers cant read or stay on topic.

Read the thread title again...That is the question I answered.

[GregariousWolf]

There will always be people who believe, who love Christians and God. But that doesn't make him any more real.

[badreligion]

Maybe in more primitive times but as society progresses and seeing as how information is spreading much more quickly, the number of people who turn to religion for answers will surely dwindle into non existence.

Religion is a useless vestige of archaic and barbaric times and has no place in any modern civilization except to make the practitioner simply "feel" better.

I don't disagree but there are still people to this day who turn to religion for answers . Honestly this song explains religion perfectly

[TheSaltyAngus]

Faith however, never changes, yet always keeps up to date

[Indivdude]

And who created this world full of would-be tyrants and evil people? Humans certainly did not create the evil that exists in this world today.

Bit of an odd statement when combined with the fact that you seem to be atheist or at least agnostic.

You saying humans didn't starve millions in china or slaughter millions on and off the battlefield in the last century or commit genocides and so on? That seems to be human created evil to me.

Title: "What's the reason to believe in God" lol'd OP, strong logic, let's think....

1) eternal life
2) perfect life afterlife
3) can actually know where everything came from
brb brb

whats the reason to NOT believe in God? none

1) You don't know this for certain and cannot prove its true.

2) You don't know this for certain either and assuming it is true, its not exactly perfect for everyone.

3) Absolutely not true. Even assuming your god does exist and did make everything, it doesn't explain where he comes from or how he created everything or why he created them the way he did. (I assume you'll go with the he simply existed argument to respond to that and that doesn't work either since even if that is true, you cannot prove that nor can you disprove the opposite hypothesis in which the universe existed forever as a counterpoint.)

[Bahai.Lifter]

Loving God itself is heaven. We shouldn't love Him out of hope for reward or fear of punishment, but love Him for His own sake. When we are spiritually close to God, we are in Heaven. Hell is being far from Him. So Heaven and Hell are really spiritual states. In fact after our physical death and the ascension of our souls to the next life, the soul keeps progressing from the state where it "left off" in this life (of course we are always hopeful of the mercy of God).

This gives you a much different perspective than the one of God "putting" you in Heaven or Hell. Because Heaven itself is closeness to God (http://www.bahai.us/heaven-and-hell/). Clearly, therefore, we make the decision, here on this earth, if we want God (Heaven) or to be far from Him (Hell). It is entirely our choice and desire.

The Hidden Words of the Bah�'� Scriptures say:


"O SON OF BEING! Thy Paradise is My love; thy heavenly home, reunion with Me. Enter therein and tarry not. This is that which hath been destined for thee in Our kingdom above and Our exalted dominion."


Also:

When they [men] are delivered through the light of faith from the darkness of these vices, and become illuminated with the radiance of the sun of reality, and ennobled with all the virtues, they esteem this the greatest reward, and they know it to be the true paradise. In the same way they consider that the spiritual punishment … is to be subjected to the world of nature, to be veiled from God, to be brutal and ignorant, to fall into carnal lusts, to be absorbed in animal frailties, to be characterized with dark qualities … these are the greatest punishments and tortures. …

… The rewards of the other world are the perfections and the peace obtained in the spiritual worlds after leaving this world … the spiritual graces, the various spiritual gifts in the Kingdom of God, the gaining of the desires of the heart and the soul, and the meeting of God in the world of eternity. In the same way the punishments of the other world … consist in being deprived of the special divine blessings and the absolute bounties, and falling into the lowest degrees of existence. He who is deprived of these divine favours, although he continues after death, is considered as dead by the people of truth.

The wealth of the other world is nearness to God. Consequently it is certain that those who are near the Divine Court are allowed to intercede, and this intercession is approved by God. …

It is even possible that the condition of those who have died in sin and unbelief may become changed; that is to say, they may become the object of pardon through the bounty of God, not through His justice; for bounty if giving without desert, and justice is giving what is deserved. As we have the power to pray for these souls here, so likewise we shall possess the same power in the other world, which is the Kingdom of God. … Therefore in that world also they can make progress. As here they can receive light by their supplications, there also they can plead for forgiveness, and receive light through entreaties and supplications.

Both before and after putting off this material form, there is progress in perfection, but not in state. … There is no other being higher than a perfect man. But man when he has reached this state can still make progress in perfections but not in state, because there is no state higher than that of a perfect man to which he can transfer himself. He only progresses in the state of humanity, for the human perfections are infinite. Thus however learned a man may be, we can imagine one more learned.

Hence, as the perfections of humanity are endless, man can also make progress in perfections after leaving this world.


Source: http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/o/BNE/bne-154.html

[pkahnman]

Loving God itself is heaven. We shouldn't love Him out of hope for reward or fear of punishment, but love Him for His own sake. When we are spiritually close to God, we are in Heaven. Hell is being far from Him. So Heaven and Hell are really spiritual states. In fact after our physical death and the ascension of our souls to the next life, the soul keeps progressing from the state where it "left off" in this life (of course we are always hopeful of the mercy of God).

This gives you a much different perspective than the one of God "putting" you in Heaven or Hell. Because Heaven itself is closeness to God (http://www.bahai.us/heaven-and-hell/). Clearly, therefore, we make the decision, here on this earth, if we want God (Heaven) or to be far from Him (Hell). It is entirely our choice and desire.

The Hidden Words of the Bah�'� Scriptures say:


"O SON OF BEING! Thy Paradise is My love; thy heavenly home, reunion with Me. Enter therein and tarry not. This is that which hath been destined for thee in Our kingdom above and Our exalted dominion."


Also:

So you would say i'm in hell? You are saying when i die i will be closer to hell?

[Bahai.Lifter]

So you would say i'm in hell? You are saying when I die i will be closer to hell?

I can't tell you that, since I'm not God. Only God knows what's in the hearts. In fact, perhaps someone says that he believes in God, but God considers that person in reality to be the furthest away from Him. So there's no way any human can judge you, only God is the best of Judges. Plus as you read in the passage, there's always the possibility of God being merciful (i.e., withholding His justice) with a soul.

Remember, also, the Bah�'� Scriptures say that there is no physical Hell, i.e., a place with burning fire, boiling water to drink, etc. That is all symbolic or spiritual.

[Sargamatha]

Bit of an odd statement when combined with the fact that you seem to be atheist or at least agnostic.

You saying humans didn't starve millions in china or slaughter millions on and off the battlefield in the last century or commit genocides and so on? That seems to be human created evil to me.



1) You don't know this for certain and cannot prove its true.

2) You don't know this for certain either and assuming it is true, its not exactly perfect for everyone.

3) Absolutely not true. Even assuming your god does exist and did make everything, it doesn't explain where he comes from or how he created everything or why he created them the way he did. (I assume you'll go with the he simply existed argument to respond to that and that doesn't work either since even if that is true, you cannot prove that nor can you disprove the opposite hypothesis in which the universe existed forever as a counterpoint.)

God did not come from anywhere, he always existed, how is that possible? because outside our world, time does not exist, there's no progress, Time started to exist at the big bang.

Also We all die sooner or later, yes I can't be sure that we don't live after death, but 1: the question in OP was "whats the point of believing" I gave him reason, and the fact that there's 50/50% chance that afterlife exists, I have no clue whats the point of saying there is no afterlife. Besides there are those, including the Surgeon? or something like that, that had a near to death eperience and claimed God exists after that event, whereashe was an atheist before, people that had near death experiences claimed they seen Jesus, including kids. Read on about it, sure you can ignore their confessions of what they saw, and you'll still be left with 50/50 chance, and something that is inevitable: Death


"You don't know this for certain either and assuming it is true, its not exactly perfect for everyone."

I take it you mean not everyone would like to live for eternity? fully agreed, if our lives were to be same in Heaven as on earth, life would become a bargain eventually, and people would rather die than live. But life in Heaven, will be very much different from our lives here

1 Corinthians 2
However, as it is written:

“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”
the things God has prepared for those who love him