RPN HAVOC..Feel like crap..NEED HELP PLEASE

[MPearlman]

Hey guys...I recently decided to try my first PH and picked HAVOC based on user reviews. I'm nearly 27 years old, have been working out hard for over 3 years now, and was definately excited to try this cycle. I though I'd read every log on here and knew what to expect for sides so I stacked up on liver support and taurine (for back pumps). The side effect not too many people talked about that's HITTING ME HARD....is LETHARGY. If you can call it that...it's more like feeling hung over 24 hours a day...and quality of life is not what it should be right now. (I don't have headaches from High BP..I have been checking)

So here's my question.....I've been using havoc 30mg a day from day one, and am currently on day 11)

1) Will my body start getting used to the product so I don't feel like crap all the time, or should I expect to feel like this for the remaining 3 weeks.

2) I've only had one day in the gym where I felt any strength gains....at what point should I expect HAVOC to "kick in"?

(I know everyone is different, I was just hoping some people would share their personal experience...thanks a lot guys..looking forward to hearing some responses

Obviously because I feel hung over all the time and barely have the energy to chew gum, and haven't felt any strenght increase I'm hoping for either the lethargy to get better or see some gains...or in the trash HAVOC will lie.

[Mr.Pooperton]

are you taking cycle assist or anything to help with sides while on cycle?

[2Burnt]

If i recall correctly, DHEA is used to combat lethargy.

[pigpen75]

If i recall correctly, DHEA is used to combat lethargy.

Same thing happened to me my 2nd week on epistane; i went through it for like 3 days, it was tuff to stay movtivated in the gym, you'll get through, just find a good preworkout. i believe its your body adjusting to the estrogen shutdown, i was only doing like 10/20/20/30.

[misco1549]

Havoc is a pretty strong PH for your first cycle. Be sure too keep an eye on your bp, high bp contributes to back pumps. Start checking it 3x daily, as it can change drastically throughout the day. Hopefully you already have all this; cycle support, taurine 3-5g/day, and hawthorne berry and/or celery seed. If your already doing all this and correctly then I would say your body is still adjusting to the test shutdown. If thats the case then the lethargy should be gone in a few days, you just have to fight through that stage. Also, make sure your constantly drinking water and getting good nights sleep. All this could contribute to your lethargy. As for gains, like you said everyone reacts differently. Some people will experience it within days of starting the cycle and some won't react to it until the 2nd week. Havoc will definitely give you strength gains, just give it time. Good luck with the rest of your cycle. Enjoy!!

[MPearlman]

Thanks for all the feedback guys! I'm taking Liv. 52 for liver support, drinking plenty of water, and keep a log of my blood pressure..I work at a detox where the nurse can hook me up! So far...no elevated BP, ..DOES anyone KNOW IF ONCE I START PCT I'll STOP FEELING LIKE CRAP??? OR DOES IT TAKE TIME FOR THIS EFFECT TO WEAR OFF???

[nickrut]

Thanks for all the feedback guys! I'm taking Liv. 52 for liver support, drinking plenty of water, and keep a log of my blood pressure..I work at a detox where the nurse can hook me up! So far...no elevated BP, ..DOES anyone KNOW IF ONCE I START PCT I'll STOP FEELING LIKE CRAP??? OR DOES IT TAKE TIME FOR THIS EFFECT TO WEAR OFF???

Takes some time as its based on the shutdown. Carbs usually help with the lethargy and DHEA supposedly does.

I'm always lethargic so hey.

[2Burnt]

Thanks for all the feedback guys! I'm taking Liv. 52 for liver support, drinking plenty of water, and keep a log of my blood pressure..I work at a detox where the nurse can hook me up! So far...no elevated BP, ..DOES anyone KNOW IF ONCE I START PCT I'll STOP FEELING LIKE CRAP??? OR DOES IT TAKE TIME FOR THIS EFFECT TO WEAR OFF???

Have you seen any difference's in bp.

[Xander]

DHEA & carbs man. Havoc is not that strong of a DS. But does have the ability to have some good lethargy and libido loss. I did not really experience any of these when I ran Havoc.

[K Rock 12]

Today was actually my first day of PCT after running my Epi cycle 20/20/30/30/30..Was feeling some what lethargic around week 3 but nothing crazy..During cycle was taking Multi, Fish Oil, Liv.52, Hawthorn Berry, and Body Octane for pre-workout..was def a great choice for pre and had some amazing workouts..PCT is Nolva 20/10/10 because im not feeling any shutdown but trying to be safe along with T-Bomb 2, Xtend, Speed Shot, Creatine Mono, and some Citrulline Malate..

[2Burnt]

i knew i was forgetting something, carbs had always been the other recommendation. i cant say from experience, just from what i've been told/read

[MPearlman]

Have you seen any difference's in bp.

No raise in BP...I've been checking and keeping a log...no differences which is weird because I just feel slightly dizzy and unmotivated ALL THE TIME...and this is causing bad moods. Just to be clear...I usually get frustrated when I get sick because I feel shut down, and now that I feel shut down all the time ...IT'S FRUSTRATING AS WELL.

I'm willing to stick it out to get to the "realy great gains" everyone keeps talking about, but right now I just feel shut down and haven't seen any results....just wondering if by day 12 I should already feel its effects.....

Is this the kind of product that when it "kicks in" I'll KNOW????

(Thanks again for eveyones response...glad we have forums like this to stay informed)

[2Burnt]

No raise in BP...I've been checking and keeping a log...no differences which is weird because I just feel slightly dizzy and unmotivated ALL THE TIME...and this is causing bad moods. Just to be clear...I usually get frustrated when I get sick because I feel shut down, and now that I feel shut down all the time ...IT'S FRUSTRATING AS WELL.

I'm willing to stick it out to get to the "realy great gains" everyone keeps talking about, but right now I just feel shut down and haven't seen any results....just wondering if by day 12 I should already feel its effects.....

Is this the kind of product that when it "kicks in" I'll KNOW????

(Thanks again for eveyones response...glad we have forums like this to stay informed)

The only thing I've taken is 11-oxo and it's probably a little different but it was one day im waiting and the next day i could tell, nothing extravagant though. So yeah, but not sure with havoc, i would assume its similiar.

[bf23000]

When taking epi, or any steroid for that matter, are headaches the primary way to detect high blood pressure issues?

If taking Cycle Assist, Flax Seed Oil, CoQ10 120mg/day, plus plenty of water, and no headaches occur, is my blood pressure most likely ok? Just curious because I do not have a blood pressure monitor.. I have some Celery Seed Extract 75mg, but not a full bottle, I wanted to save it for use during PCT since I'll be out of Cycle Assist

[jrbeard]

No raise in BP...I've been checking and keeping a log...no differences which is weird because I just feel slightly dizzy and unmotivated ALL THE TIME...and this is causing bad moods. Just to be clear...I usually get frustrated when I get sick because I feel shut down, and now that I feel shut down all the time ...IT'S FRUSTRATING AS WELL.

I'm willing to stick it out to get to the "realy great gains" everyone keeps talking about, but right now I just feel shut down and haven't seen any results....just wondering if by day 12 I should already feel its effects.....

Is this the kind of product that when it "kicks in" I'll KNOW????

(Thanks again for eveyones response...glad we have forums like this to stay informed)

Whats your diet like? How are you dosing the havoc?

[olazabal]

strength gains will usually come mid second week-early third week. For me it was earlier

[dirtyvegas]

its possible that you started at too high a dosage for your weight 30mg a day from day 1 @ 175lbs, but your body should be used to it by now.

What is your diet like? Is Liv52 your only support sup?

For me, I saw gains end of week 2 and all of week 3 - very noticeable. Regarding PCT, I felt lethargy, where I really did not on-cycle with the exception of the last few days.

Complete log is below, I have about a week to go for PCT.

E-Stane is a Havoc clone in case you were wondering...

[MPearlman]

Whats your diet like? How are you dosing the havoc?

I'm taking 30mg a day, 1omg @ breakfast, 10mg pre-workout, and 10mg @ dinner.....my diet has never been great, cheerios for breakfast, usually chicken or turkey sandwich for lunch w/ a yogurt, and whatevers around for dinner, whith 2 protein shakes for snacks throughout the day. Also...I'm a college student, so peanut butter on wheat is a common meal.

[_stacked_]

I'm taking 30mg a day, 1omg @ breakfast, 10mg pre-workout, and 10mg @ dinner.....my diet has never been great, cheerios for breakfast, usually chicken or turkey sandwich for lunch w/ a yogurt, and whatevers around for dinner, whith 2 protein shakes for snacks throughout the day. Also...I'm a college student, so peanut butter on wheat is a common meal.

With a diet that sparse you should just drop the havoc anyways because you aren't ever going to experience the "great gains" you are expecting on cheerios, a turkey sandwich, whatever for dinner and 2 protein shakes.

That is a cutting diet, not a strength/mass gaining diet. You need some more meat and qulaity protein throughout the day or you are wasting your time running a ph/ds/aas.

No hate, just the honest truth man... if you don't have the time or money to eat the necessary diet then you are wasting your time running a steriod because without increasing quality calories on cycles you will see no appreciable gains.

[jrbeard]

With a diet that sparse you should just drop the havoc anyways because you aren't ever going to experience the "great gains" you are expecting on cheerios, a turkey sandwich, whatever for dinner and 2 protein shakes.

That is a cutting diet, not a strength/mass gaining diet. You need some more meat and qulaity protein throughout the day or you are wasting your time running a ph/ds/aas.

No hate, just the honest truth man... if you don't have the time or money to eat the necessary diet then you are wasting your time running a steriod because without increasing quality calories on cycles you will see no appreciable gains.

I agree 100%. You need to be eating a **** load. Your not going to grow if your not eating enough to allow your body bo grow. Plain and simple. Anyway as for your lethargy UP YOUR CARBS!

[dirtyvegas]

With a diet that sparse you should just drop the havoc anyways because you aren't ever going to experience the "great gains" you are expecting on cheerios, a turkey sandwich, whatever for dinner and 2 protein shakes.

That is a cutting diet, not a strength/mass gaining diet. You need some more meat and qulaity protein throughout the day or you are wasting your time running a ph/ds/aas.

No hate, just the honest truth man... if you don't have the time or money to eat the necessary diet then you are wasting your time running a steriod because without increasing quality calories on cycles you will see no appreciable gains.

I agree 100%, reps to you man...

The week that I dropped my cals is the week progression slowed-up tremendously. Get strict with your diet and shoot for around 3500+ cals a day.

EDIT: also look into a complete support supp, like CEL Cycle Assist. Liv 52 doesn't cover all the potential sides you can get from Havoc.

[2Burnt]

I agree 100%, reps to you man...

The week that I dropped my cals is the week progression slowed-up tremendously. Get strict with your diet and shoot for around 3500+ cals a day.

EDIT: also look into a complete support supp, like CEL Cycle Assist. Liv 52 doesn't cover all the potential sides you can get from Havoc.

This right here. Your going to want to get the cals in or you'll feel like crap under any circumstances let lone one where there is a DS involved.

[MPearlman]

With a diet that sparse you should just drop the havoc anyways because you aren't ever going to experience the "great gains" you are expecting on cheerios, a turkey sandwich, whatever for dinner and 2 protein shakes.

That is a cutting diet, not a strength/mass gaining diet. You need some more meat and qulaity protein throughout the day or you are wasting your time running a ph/ds/aas.

No hate, just the honest truth man... if you don't have the time or money to eat the necessary diet then you are wasting your time running a steriod because without increasing quality calories on cycles you will see no appreciable gains.

Not sure if I gave an accurate description of my diet...Im currently taking a nutrition course where I have to log calories...I get 3200 a day which I think is enough...around 190g protein, and close to 400g carbs. Guess I didn't include all other snacks...just thought I should give an idea of what types of food I consume...it's 3pm and I've had a bowl of cheerios, fruit, and 2 peanut butter sandwiches. I will still have a chicken dinner, 2 protein shakes, a yogurt, cottage cheese, peanuts, and more fruit before the day is over....DEFINATELY LOVE THE FEEDBACK...please continue critiquing...I still have a lot to learn so I'm glad everyone's weighing in....so I could be wrong..but I think I consume enough cals & carbs....should I document ALL for a couple days and post so everyone can better critique?

[jrbeard]

Not sure if I gave an accurate description of my diet...Im currently taking a nutrition course where I have to log calories...I get 3200 a day which I think is enough...around 190g protein, and close to 400g carbs. Guess I didn't include all other snacks...just thought I should give an idea of what types of food I consume...it's 3pm and I've had a bowl of cheerios, fruit, and 2 peanut butter sandwiches. I will still have a chicken dinner, 2 protein shakes, a yogurt, cottage cheese, peanuts, and more fruit before the day is over....DEFINATELY LOVE THE FEEDBACK...please continue critiquing...I still have a lot to learn so I'm glad everyone's weighing in....so I could be wrong..but I think I consume enough cals & carbs....should I document ALL for a couple days and post so everyone can better critique?

I think that would be a good idea.

[dirtyvegas]

Not sure if I gave an accurate description of my diet...Im currently taking a nutrition course where I have to log calories...I get 3200 a day which I think is enough...around 190g protein, and close to 400g carbs. Guess I didn't include all other snacks...just thought I should give an idea of what types of food I consume...it's 3pm and I've had a bowl of cheerios, fruit, and 2 peanut butter sandwiches. I will still have a chicken dinner, 2 protein shakes, a yogurt, cottage cheese, peanuts, and more fruit before the day is over....DEFINATELY LOVE THE FEEDBACK...please continue critiquing...I still have a lot to learn so I'm glad everyone's weighing in....so I could be wrong..but I think I consume enough cals & carbs....should I document ALL for a couple days and post so everyone can better critique?

It's certainly a learning process, and yes log your diet.

IMO up the protein to about 250g a day. Ditch the cheerios and start your day with some eggs!

[NiNko]

Hawthorn berry helped a ton, as well as a good preworkout. Just think of why you are taking this PH and it should give you motivation, it does me.

[MPearlman]

Hawthorn berry helped a ton, as well as a good preworkout. Just think of why you are taking this PH and it should give you motivation, it does me.

Pre-work out I usually have 1 cup black coffee which ALWAYS gets me amped...but not as much now that I feel tired all the time...I used to take NO Xplode which I LOVED IN THE GYM...AND HATED FOR THE NEXT 6 HOURS ONCE I LEFT...made me WAAAAY too jittery...does anyone know a preworkout supp that won't keep me jittery...I've tried Jacked, NO Xplode, and Superpump 250 which were all a little too much...guess my body's sensitive to whatever they use. (Not sure if there's any others out there)

ALSO side note....today is day 12 on Havoc and I feel less "hung over" but still very tired.

PS...I will post my complete diet log for tomorrow...tomorrow night including items, and nutritional facts

[dirtyvegas]

You shouldn't use PreW supps on-cycle. The PH/DS should give you plenty of "juice" in the gym. It may mess your up your BP.

[2Burnt]

You shouldn't use PreW supps on-cycle. The PH/DS should give you plenty of "juice" in the gym. It may mess your up your BP.

^^^this^^^

[MPearlman]

^^^this^^^

Appreciate the advise...I'll stick with coffee.