Compound lifts are NOT helping biceps in my case

[Runner4]

I've been lifting weights for 5 months. In that time, my bench press has gained 60 pounds, my chest has gotten much bigger, and I've added tons of weight to dips, chin-ups, etc.

My biceps on the other hand have not improved. They're still at 12.5 to 13 inches and weight has gone up maybe 5 pounds (25 to 30 for standing curls). It's got to be hilarious watching someone bench 185 with such thin arms.

I've been following the recommended workouts on here; everyone says that you don't really need to add a ton of bicep work -- that they'll grow naturally with compound movements. Well, they certainly have not. I mean, I know you've got to wait a while before noticing improvement, but nothing in 5 months? C'mon.

Been eating properly, plenty of calories, plenty of protein.

As someone whose biceps do not seem to be responding to only compound movements, what can I do to really stimulate mass improvements?

Thanks

[SwagMorris]

If you get to 185lbs, and they are still small, then you have a problem. I'd be more patient. Sounds like you are still doing isolation work. Don't stop.

What's your current bicep routine?

[Partyrocking]

How much size have you gained overall? Biceps are like the hour hand and the rest of your body is like the minute hand. They don't seem to change, but once a hour has gone by, you see the change all at once. If your weight hasn't gone up by a considerable amount, then I wouldn't expect to see much of a bicep change.

More bicep work will help with the right diet, but if you aren't putting on enough mass, your arms will stay the same.

[TBU720]

Your smallest muscle groups will show the smallest improvements. Have you noticed that your hands havent gotten any bigger?? Well thats because the hands are made up of tons of tiny muscles.

The biceps are just going to progress much slower.

Anyway if you want to hit them a little bit extra, it certainly is not going to hurt. People say that bicep isolation isn't NECESSARY to build a strong foundation. But can you still do it? Sure. Take 3 minutes and do some isolation curls....not gonna hurt anything.

Is it going to make a world of a difference? Probably not...But even if it makes a slight difference it would be worth the couple minutes of extra exercise.

[Runner4]

If you get to 185lbs, and they are still small, then you have a problem. I'd be more patient. Sounds like you are still doing isolation work. Don't stop.

What's your current bicep routine?

Starting-strength recommends no bicep work. I kind of ignored that and added 3x8 standing curls for 3 days a week. I also added 3 sets of chin-ups, but I feel like those work my back more than my biceps.

[Runner4]

How much size have you gained overall? Biceps are like the hour hand and the rest of your body is like the minute hand. They don't seem to change, but once a hour has gone by, you see the change all at once. If your weight hasn't gone up by a considerable amount, then I wouldn't expect to see much of a bicep change.

More bicep work will help with the right diet, but if you aren't putting on enough mass, your arms will stay the same.

Weighed 140 5 months ago. Currently weigh 162.

[InspecktaDeck]

If you get to 185lbs, and they are still small, then you have a problem. I'd be more patient. Sounds like you are still doing isolation work. Don't stop.

This. Your 5'10 under 200lbs worried about biceps. You've got bigger fish to fry OP(mmm fish...)

[SwagMorris]

Starting-strength recommends no bicep work. I kind of ignored that and added 3x8 standing curls for 3 days a week. I also added 3 sets of chin-ups, but I feel like those work my back more than my biceps.

Chin-ups should work your back more.

For most people higher reps (10-15) are preferable for arm work. Do you do any isolation work for triceps? Also more variety is always good for arm work. Say bb curls/tricep pressdowns 1 day... Hammer curls/overhead tricep extensions the next...

[TBU720]

Starting-strength recommends no bicep work. I kind of ignored that and added 3x8 standing curls for 3 days a week. I also added 3 sets of chin-ups, but I feel like those work my back more than my biceps.

Rippetoe actually doesn't recommend that. Bicep curls are listed as an assistance exercise

[ZoranM]

Have you noticed that your hands havent gotten any bigger?? Well thats because the hands are made up of tons of tiny muscles.

wut?

This. Your 5'10 under 200lbs worried about biceps. You've got bigger fish to fry OP(mmm fish...)

So, you can't worry about aesthetics? Until you're over 200? Something not growing is no problem, just add the bodyweight? yeah, thumbs up

[k9pit]

Just add some curl movements in there.

My biceps always lagged until I started hitting them directly and 2x a week.

I don't believe in the just do compounds and "hope for the best" carryover theory.

[MichaelCJ]

Try a totally different program, is my advice.

It sounds like the goals typically - and logically - associated with Starting Strength do not align with your own. So yeah, have a look around - there are a lot of options, even among the stickied threads in the Workout Programs forum, for example. Go for a "beginner's" or "novice" program, sure, but one more suited to where you want to be.

And remember that for size and aesthetics, not only does diet matter hugely, but technique as well. Maybe see what bodybuilders have to say on issues of form and stuff: people like Kai Greene, say, on Youtube. Just an idea; you can do however much or little research you like, in any areas, or none.

Good luck, mate.

[NZninja101]

Your smallest muscle groups will show the smallest improvements. Have you noticed that your hands havent gotten any bigger?? Well thats because the hands are made up of tons of tiny muscles.

There are no muscles in the hands. The muscles in the forearm are what makes the fingers and wrist move.

Starting-strength recommends no bicep work. I kind of ignored that and added 3x8 standing curls for 3 days a week. I also added 3 sets of chin-ups, but I feel like those work my back more than my biceps.

I think there is something in the book about curls. But the general internet atmosphere seems to frown upon adding lifts to 'Starting Strength'

This. Your 5'10 under 200lbs worried about biceps. You've got bigger fish to fry OP(mmm fish...)

So someone can't worry about lagging body parts until they're almost at their natural limit? At say 10% bodyfat a 5 foot 10 200 lb natural physique is elite and very impressive.

Just add some curl movements in there.

My biceps always lagged until I started hitting them directly and 2x a week.

I don't believe in the just do compounds and "hope for the best" carryover theory.

This

[stealth_swimmer]

Just add some curl movements in there.

My biceps always lagged until I started hitting them directly and 2x a week.

I don't believe in the just do compounds and "hope for the best" carryover theory.

Agreed. If a muscle is lagging and you're not training it, it makes sense to start training it.

[alexb650]

Agreed. If a muscle is lagging and you're not training it, it makes sense to start training it.

I agree too. OP, you need to realize, though, that it's going to take you years to get big arms. If your goal is to add an inch to your arms in a year, it would be optimistic, in my opinion. The other thing that I'm surprised wasn't mentioned is that for overall arm size, you need to realize that triceps are more important because they are 2/3 of your arm mass. Triceps are the main focus of my arm routine and bis are secondary.

[ironwill2008]

As someone whose biceps do not seem to be responding to only compound movements, what can I do to really stimulate mass improvements?

Work them, directly, more than once per week.

You mentioned using Starting Strength; it's not necessarily the most appropriate program for someone whose goal is primarily size.

[matjusm]

I've been lifting weights for 5 months. In that time, my bench press has gained 60 pounds, my chest has gotten much bigger, and I've added tons of weight to dips, chin-ups, etc.

My biceps on the other hand have not improved. They're still at 12.5 to 13 inches and weight has gone up maybe 5 pounds (25 to 30 for standing curls). It's got to be hilarious watching someone bench 185 with such thin arms.

I've been following the recommended workouts on here; everyone says that you don't really need to add a ton of bicep work -- that they'll grow naturally with compound movements. Well, they certainly have not. I mean, I know you've got to wait a while before noticing improvement, but nothing in 5 months? C'mon.

Been eating properly, plenty of calories, plenty of protein.

As someone whose biceps do not seem to be responding to only compound movements, what can I do to really stimulate mass improvements?

Thanks

A much larger part of your arm is made up of the triceps, not the biceps. Hence if you want to gain arm circumference then know that 2/3rds of it is tris. Secondly you have to keep gaining mass to get bigger arms. 162lb at 5´10" isn´t all that big so don´t expect to get big muscles without weighing the part.

[JOHN GARGANI]

Starting-strength recommends no bicep work. I kind of ignored that and added 3x8 standing curls for 3 days a week. I also added 3 sets of chin-ups, but I feel like those work my back more than my biceps.

well if you do starting STRENGTH, then what just do you expect to go up?????? strength, RIGHT!

it is not called "Starting to get giant biceps", now is it......

first: make up your mind what you want to do, and how you want to look, and then, pick and tailor the workouts that address that.

if you want bigger Biceps, you must CERTAINLY work them directly....

[IDrinkBloodLOL]

Dude, you're not supposed to do NOTHING but compounds, you're supposed to do a mix of both compounds and isolations. Why would your biceps just magically grow without stimulation?

[BankWalker]

Weighed 140 5 months ago. Currently weigh 162.

That's a pretty good bit of weight gain in only 5 months. How much body fat have you packed on during the weight gain? You've got to make up your mind what it is you want to accomplish. If it's strength...then you're starting with the right plan. But if you're specifically concerned with arm size...you must hit them directly. Spend more effort on triceps than biceps if you want bigger arms.

[zildjian_4]

It seems to be a bb.com cool thing to do to tell people to avoid isolation work and just do compounds. In general, compounds are very effective at building overall size as they can overload the muscle more. However, since this is BODYBUILDING, doing isolation exercises as a secondary phase of your routine can give the extra edge. For body building, each on their own are not optimal, however, if you were to only use one of the 2(compounds or isolations), compounds would be the way to go.

[SwagMorris]

It seems to be a bb.com cool thing to do to tell people to avoid isolation work and just do compounds..

You should have been here in 06-07. At that time all you needed was squat, dead, CGBP, military press, bb rows, and chins.

[InspecktaDeck]

Here we go again. "bro it doesnt matter if your 137lbs @ 6'2, you need to focus on abs & biceps thats all thats important, dont listen to that fat guy telling you to build a base of strength/muscle mass first! Abs & bicepls aaaahhh!"

[zildjian_4]

You should have been here in 06-07. At that time all you needed was squat, dead, CGBP, military press, bb rows, and chins.

Haha, I remember that, and thought it was still sort of the cool thing around here in 2012 haha.

^ Way to blow what everybody said way out of proportion.

I'm sorry, is there a magical weight where the body suddenly says : Oh this guy did enough Squats and Deadlifts, now we will allow him to grow some biceps!!

No. Take a course in Human Physiology at the college level.

Apply stress to the muscle, give it demands that it needs to meet, let it rest, have a caloric surplus, provide it with the appropriate nutrients, and it will grow.


OP, don't listen to people that say you should not train muscle groups in your body just because you don't have a big base yet. They're ignorant,blind,and have no idea what they are talking about. There's nothing wrong with doing Bench,Squat,Row,Press,Pullups,Deadlifts AND Lateral Raises, Barbell Curls, Tricep Extensions, Calf Raises, Core work .

That is all

This is quite true, however, the starting strength programs are often sufficient for beginners and extra isolation moves just burn up the precious calories for them. Going from nothing to deadlifting, squats, rows, pullups, presses etc is already stressful enough, let alone adding in some fancy isolation work. Don't get me wrong, isolation work has its place, maybe even a few lat raises or tricep extensions in the beginning, but compounds SHOULD be the focus when starting out. Once they been to adapt, then it may be better to add in some isolations. Think of it as hitting the NOS switch in a car, right off the start it doesn't do much, but with some speed it can do great.

[ZoranM]

but compounds SHOULD be the focus when starting out.

Noone, EVER said that they shouldn't be.

What you call fancy, I call basic.

[InspecktaDeck]

^ Way to blow what everybody said way out of proportion.

I'm sorry, is there a magical weight where the body suddenly says : Oh this guy did enough Squats and Deadlifts, now we will allow him to grow some biceps!!

No. Take a course in Human Physiology at the college level.

Apply stress to the muscle, give it demands that it needs to meet, let it rest, have a caloric surplus, provide it with the appropriate nutrients, and it will grow.


OP, don't listen to people that say you should not train muscle groups in your body just because you don't have a big base yet. They're ignorant,blind,and have no idea what they are talking about. There's nothing wrong with doing Bench,Squat,Row,Press,Pullups,Deadlifts AND Lateral Raises, Barbell Curls, Tricep Extensions, Calf Raises, Core work .

That is all

Im in college right now. Isolation movements are used to bring up lagging body parts(bb'ing) or to strengthen weak muscles in the chain(IE your bench lock out sucks). Tell me why somebody that is 5 months into lifting with little muscle mass at all needs to worry about weakness/lagging muscles? You know why he thinks his biceps are too small? Because he looks at muscle mags/pics online and see's these guys with huge arms and thinks "wow I need bigger arms". Its a waste of time/effort to worry about delts 1 week into lifting.

I know several people in-person that are pure powerlifters; they can easily Row 300-400+ for reps, and have 600+ deadlifts. Their biceps are non-existent.

I know these same guys, they told me they stopped flexing when you came around to throw you off from finding out thier secret bicep routines.

[tidnab]

The only "compound" movements that are going to do anything at all for your biceps are rows and pullups. So if you're not doing those, forget about acquiring biceps from a compounds-only program.

[InspecktaDeck]

Isolation movements are not used to bring up "lagging body parts".

Yes they are, all the powerlifters you hang out with that row 500lbs for reps told me so. Its thier secret. Didnt they tell you?

Can you show me how you will build up respectable calves with a compound?

The 500lbs rowing powerlifters told me you cant. They said you have to do iso movements, but not to worry about calves if you've only been lifting a few months.

[JmanTheJuiceman]

Yes they are, all the powerlifters you hang out with that row 500lbs for reps told me so. Its thier secret. Didnt they tell you?

So, I'm honestly wondering, what is your suggestion for the OP?

When will he be "big enough" and/or trained long enough to start building his biceps?

Again, honest question here.

[ZoranM]

Im in college right now. 1.Isolation movements are used to bring up lagging body parts(bb'ing) or to strengthen weak muscles in the chain(IE your bench lock out sucks). Tell me why somebody that is 5 months into lifting with little muscle mass at all needs to worry about weakness/lagging muscles?


2.You know why he thinks his biceps are too small? Because he looks at muscle mags/pics online and see's these guys with huge arms and thinks "wow I need bigger arms". Its a waste of time/effort to worry about delts 1 week into lifting.

Good for you. 1. Because they are not used just to bring up or strenghten bla bla.. Why shouldn't he worry? Not everyone wants to grow to 250. Not everyone has the same goal. Not everyone wants to be a real bodybuilder, they wanna look good in their own eyes. EVERYONE has the right to try to improve something, NOW.

2. He said Cmon, nothing in 5 months. That's why he thinks his biceps are to small.

fawking rippeto borgs