Compound lifts are NOT helping biceps in my case

[akmusclehamster]

...you can't really say they "don't respond to compound movements" when you've only been lifting for 5 months, wait till a couple years down the road to say that. for biceps all you need are: deadlifts, pullups/chinups and rows. train them heavy and if your biceps don't grow from that, then nothing will make them grow. no need wasting time on curls

[TheJediBrah]

Not reading thread, but no shit. Why would you expect to get huge bicep growth with compounds?

Rowing or lat pulldowns can help, but Curls are 100x better

[IDrinkBloodLOL]

This thread is horrible all around.

[orca23554]

Takes me about 6 mins to rep out 3X8 BB Curls - much lesser than the time I took to read through this thread

It's really simple - we don't want folks focusing on doing isolations at the expense of the basic compounds. Guess the reason why the "don't waste time on curls" thing started is due to the simple reason that if you pick a random bloke who has no knowledge of how muscle building works and put him into a gym, he'll intuitively reach over for those DB's and start curling every day rather than head over to the barbell/squat rack. In fact the SS book uses this phrase multiple times - "coaching by exaggeration", "don't curl" seems to follow from a similar philosophy

If the guy can do the basics right (progressive overload, diet, rest, sticking to a good base of compounds) and also do some direct bicep work, good for him

[DerekEt]

...you can't really say they "don't respond to compound movements" when you've only been lifting for 5 months, wait till a couple years down the road to say that. for biceps all you need are: deadlifts, pullups/chinups and rows. train them heavy and if your biceps don't grow from that, then nothing will make them grow. no need wasting time on curls

Enjoy the red you ignorant monster.

[akmusclehamster]

Rowing or lat pulldowns can help, but Curls are 100x better

You're joking right???

[FeelTheFear]

You're joking right???

no hes not

curls are a better bicep exercise than anything else

what you gonna do about it?

[wadboram]

I'm with the same opinion of members that suggest you can do some bi work like adding 3 sets of barbell or Ez bar curls (6-12 REPS) per week

[akmusclehamster]

curls are a better bicep exercise than anything else

only on the BB.com forums
smh

[-Lucifer]

only on the BB.com forums
smh

Lol. I sure hope you're trolling.

[bravo96]

Lol. I sure hope you're trolling.

this.

[TreFo]

This is wrong. The straight bar is a much better alternative as it forces your grip to be supinated putting the most tension on the bicep.

Anyways OP I had the same issue you have. My training routine either consisted of an upper lower split that didn't include direct arm work or a full body routine that didn't include bicep exercises. Like many others after coming onto the misc I bought into the myth that direct bicep work wasn't necessary, as a result everything on my body grew at the same pace while my biceps stayed stagnant. To me it looked horribly unaesthetic and I decided to do some direct bicep work. Since adding direct bicep work to my routine my bi's are quickly starting to catch up and are hardly lagging. I find I am much more pleased aesthetically with my overall physique now.

I do Biceps with Chest alternating between 1 bicep movement for 3 sets then 1 chest movement for 3 sets. Typically for chest one week I'll go heavy weight to improve strength then one week I'll focus on high reps for hypertrophy.

Flat Barbell Bench - 2 Warmup Sets, 3 Working Sets
Barbell Curl - 3x15
Decline Bench - 3 Working Sets
Alternating Dumbell Curl - 3x15
Cable Flies - 3x15
Preacher Curl Machine - 3x15

Also as another poster stated above, if you are feeling your bicep's becoming very tired or very sore during back workouts it's because you haven't developed the proper mind-muscle connection in your back. When I'm training my back my bicep's hardly get a pump, focusing on pulling through my elbows and feeling my back properly contract. I feel I work my back to a greater extent training this way.

The straight BB curl is slightly better bcuz of better bicep tension however strains the wrists and forearms for many users and so they find usingthe EZ bar manageble. It's all preference. I'd rather do EZ curls and not get forearm pain than straight bar.

/facepalm

I'm not going to waste my time searching for studies that back up frequent training for hypertrophic response; it's out there trust me

[zildjian_4]

1. As you already know but seem to have forgotten, I had already admitted to the other guy that he was right about calf isolation being necessary 100% of the time. SO scratch that off the list. Shoulders and arms lag 90% of the time? Have you not been in a gym lately? Pretty sure arms are a safe bet for most guys in there.

2. I also said(if you would read the whole thread) that at THIS PHASE, I dont believe it would be optimal to be doing extra isolation work when total body/compound moves are already going to be shocking an untrained body. Later on, after you adapt, sure, throw all the isolation you can handle, but, if a noob is doing deadlifts squats bench press pull ups dips plus their variations, I think isolating those muscles will be unnecessary until a plateau has been hit and the individuals body adapts to the current routine.

3. I was hoping to use the calorie idea as a figure of speech/ way to get the point across. LIke I've said I think that adding extra moves for someone who will already be in a phase of their routine (when do properly) would tax their body beyond what they can handle at first. The thing is, most people don't know that because they replace the compounds with isolations in hopes of "instantly"looking big.


So, will a 6'0 140 lber gain anything from all the compounds plus their variations and perhaps a couple isolations? Yes absolutely. I believe they'd be at the maximum amount of gains as far as training goes. Will they exceed more during the first few noob months of training if they add in lots of extra curls, pushdowns, crunches, forearms work, reverse curls? I don't believe so. If they add in isolations once their body adapts to real training(not curls and benching), then yes, at that point it would be beneficial.

In This Post: I can't refute your argument so I'll digress to an ad-hominem.

Read the thread before posting. You obviously missed my reply. Look above genius.

Probably because they don't listen to minimalist nazis on bb.com.


It was unsuccessful.


Benching and curls are real training, as are other lifts.


I think you've shot yourself in the foot a little here. Ad hominem arguments probably hurt your reputation more than the person you're criticizing.

1. Cute. Missed the point again. I didn't say do compounds for life and never even consider an isolaion exercise. How many times do I have to repeat that. I have plenty of isolation work in my routine but I've also been seriously training for 7 years. If I were to go back to the beginning (10 years or so ago), I would have restricted my focus on curls and benching and done more of the larger movements to start out. Nothing puts meat on the biceps like curls, I haven't disagreed with that yet. But, I AM saying that it may be more beneficial after the individuals body is used to the training and has a stronger base.
2. Oh no.
3. Can you please quote my exact post where I said that benching and curling aren't real training? Stop making stuff up.

Enjoy the red you ignorant monster.

lead by the spirit?

[Partyrocking]

So, I didn't mean to start a controversy. Despite what one of you mentioned, I actually don't look at big guys online and think "I need bigger arms"; I just look in the mirror with my shirt on and think "I look exactly the same as I did 5 months ago". (Shirt off is a different story.)

I mean, strength is of course nice to have but I'm just going for a "well-rounded" look. My arms definitely look thinner than the average person's, which is something I would like to correct, so I guess my question more explicitly stated is: do I need to do biceps-specific work for this?

It seems many of you have indicated the answer is yes. I added some curls yesterday and I really feel them today so I think this is going to help. Thanks!

Also of note: One of you mentioned that triceps are more important than biceps with regards to arm size. I actually have improved quite a bit on this. I started parallel dips with 25 pounds of assistance and now I am at 25 pounds added.

It's not surprising that you think you look the same. You see yourself everyday, so each change is incremental to you. If you compared a picture of yourself now to one 5 months ago, I'm sure you would see some improvements.

[Partyrocking]

Bret Contreras did a lot of emg (muscle activity) testing w/ bicep and back exercises. He went through 45 different exercises. http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...ceps_exercises

He found that the three best bicep exercises for mean activation were: Weighted Wide Parallel-Grip Pull-up, Weighted Chin-up, BB Curl and the three best for peak activation were: Weighted Chin-up, Weighted Wide Parallel-Grip Pull-up, EZ-Bar Curl.

Idk how popular emg data is in the bb world, but I have found it useful for my training.

[ThickAsABrick]

Do some curls.

Duh.

[Jasonk282]

Do some curls.

Duh.

This^. If you want to fcuking do curls, do curls. 3 sets 2x a week is plenty.

[mind4muscle7]

the secret to building big biceps: concentrate on barbell curls, dumbell curls and hammer curls. Trust me, you'll thank me one day.

[dest0]

Work them, directly, more than once per week.

You mentioned using Starting Strength; it's not necessarily the most appropriate program for someone whose goal is primarily size.

This IMO is your best bet.

You need to work them directly rather than just work them as a "secondary" or "assisting" muscle.

On arms day here's what I do for biceps.

3x10 Preacher curls
3x10 Alternative dumbells
3x10 Hammer curls

[InspecktaDeck]

Takes me about 6 mins to rep out 3X8 BB Curls - much lesser than the time I took to read through this thread

It's really simple - we don't want folks focusing on doing isolations at the expense of the basic compounds. Guess the reason why the "don't waste time on curls" thing started is due to the simple reason that if you pick a random bloke who has no knowledge of how muscle building works and put him into a gym, he'll intuitively reach over for those DB's and start curling every day rather than head over to the barbell/squat rack. In fact the SS book uses this phrase multiple times - "coaching by exaggeration", "don't curl" seems to follow from a similar philosophy

If the guy can do the basics right (progressive overload, diet, rest, sticking to a good base of compounds) and also do some direct bicep work, good for him

I agree with this. Bicep curls from "day 1" isnt bad per say, as long as thier not the focus of the training session.

[NZninja101]

1. Cute. Missed the point again.

You don't really have a single point, you're kind of all over the place. Petty remarks like cute won't earn you any bonus points, it only makes you look mad for finding something wrong with your post that you feel that a logical response alone cannot properly address.

I didn't say do compounds for life and never even consider an isolaion exercise. How many times do I have to repeat that. I have plenty of isolation work in my routine but I've also been seriously training for 7 years. If I were to go back to the beginning (10 years or so ago), I would have restricted my focus on curls and benching and done more of the larger movements to start out. Nothing puts meat on the biceps like curls, I haven't disagreed with that yet. But, I AM saying that it may be more beneficial after the individuals body is used to the training and has a stronger base.

Every thing you've said except for the bold I agree with, but I feel your approach is wrong. It's as if you're saying that compounds > isolation like you have to only do one. Nobody here that I'm aware of has denied the general importance of compound exercises.

2. Oh no.

Just try to be less nonsensical next time.

3. Can you please quote my exact post where I said that benching and curling aren't real training? Stop making stuff up.

. they add in isolations once their body adapts to real training(not curls and benching), then yes, at that point it would be beneficial.

Here is the quote where you said that bench and curls are not real training.




On your part:






0:27

[bravo96]

I agree with this. Bicep curls from "day 1" isnt bad per say, as long as thier not the focus of the training session.

no one said biceps should be a main focus of someone small, no one at all.

your the one that said dont worry about training arms untill your bigger. have you now changed your opinion on the topic?

[TheJediBrah]

The way this thread SHOULD have gone:

OP: My biceps aren't growing from compounds.
-----------------------------------------------
Post 1: Do curls
----------------------------------------------
OP: Ok thanks!

/thread

You're joking right???

only on the BB.com forums
smh

trolololol

no one said biceps should be a main focus of someone small, no one at all.

your the one that said dont worry about training arms untill your bigger. have you now changed your opinion on the topic?

IMO nothing wrong with beginners training arms

[bravo96]

The way this thread SHOULD have gone:

OP: My biceps aren't growing from compounds.
-----------------------------------------------
Post 1: Do curls
----------------------------------------------
OP: Ok thanks!

/thread







trolololol



IMO nothing wrong with beginners training arms

i agree.

[godsamurai]

[akmusclehamster]

IMO everything wrong with beginners training arms

this

[mind4muscle7]

brutal intensity

[CBRob]

Originally Posted by TheJediBrah
IMO everything wrong with beginners training arms

this

Be careful OP, arm training too early can go terribly wrong!

[TheJediBrah]

this

Qeynos you are a legit spastic

[zildjian_4]

I`m not going to continue arguing with a poster on a forum. This is getting ridiculous.

OP, you've heard various opinions, it's up to you to combine them with some of your own research and experience and choose the way you prefer. Peace.