Carb Refeeding

[wrhalljr]

Great thread!

Can someone directly address this question?

With a "Cheat" meal, do you still stay within your macros? I don't get the idea... is the idea that you can eat a 6=800 cal meal, blow your daily intake and be fine or are you supposed to skip the next meal cuz you blew your daily load?

Yes..to answer the question you asked...for me personally my carb re-feed meal is whether I do 1 or 2 depending on where I am at in my training prep and where my BF% stands, stays within my macros for the day...I just significantly lower my fat grams (at 9 cal per gram) and significantly increase my carb grams (at 4 cal per gram)...and to reference another point you do not "need to eat carbs throughout the day" to see results...anyway hope that answered your question...

[DesertDude11]

Yes..to answer the question you asked...for me personally my carb re-feed meal is whether I do 1 or 2 depending on where I am at in my training prep and where my BF% stands, stays within my macros for the day...I just significantly lower my fat grams (at 9 cal per gram) and significantly increase my carb grams (at 4 cal per gram)...and to reference another point you do not "need to eat carbs throughout the day" to see results...anyway hope that answered your question...

So I am hearing: Carb re-feed is different than a "cheat meal". Is that correct?

[wrhalljr]

So I am hearing: Carb re-feed is different than a "cheat meal". Is that correct?

It seems like from reading a lot of posts that some people consider it the same thing, I do not...my carb re-feed 1x or 2x a week is a "clean" carb re-feed...my cheat meals which, again depending on the time of year and where I am at in my contest prep, are 1x or 2x a month if any at all, and for those I do not stay within my macros...I pretty much eat anything and everything! That is what works best for me...

[DesertDude11]

It seems like from reading a lot of posts that some people consider it the same thing, I do not...my carb re-feed 1x or 2x a week is a "clean" carb re-feed...my cheat meals which, again depending on the time of year and where I am at in my contest prep, are 1x or 2x a month if any at all, and for those I do not stay within my macros...I pretty much eat anything and everything! That is what works best for me...

K, got it. That's what I thought.

[azstrengthcoach]

Ok people, this guy is trying to confuse everyone with an open ended statement....



I will expand on it....
Yes, it is true that fat will be burned for an amount of time. To be in ketosis for extended periods of time is not wise.
When a person is truely in a ketosis state for extended periods of time, health problems may occur not to mention proper brain function. There is a reason why nobody does the Polumbo diet anymore.
For a person who wants to gain/maintain muscle mass/strength carb ups "refeeds" to restore glycogen levels are imparative.
Without doing so... A person will be spinning thier wheels.
I could have used technical terms and went into more depth but as I told this guy once already....


Google is ------------------>

If you're in a ketogenic state, fat is your only fuel source. Lots of people stay ketogenic for year without an ill health effects. Do you have any actual science to back up your claims? Unless you're in a severe state of starvation Amino Acids do not make up a significant source of fuel. So that leaves fat and carbohydrates as a fuel source. In a ketogenic state your body relies solely off of fat as a fuel source. Furthermore upregulating fat consumption increases the enyzmes needed for beta oxidation. So eating a ketogenic diet actually makes you a more efficient fat burner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_oxidation

[ntrllftr]

If you're in a ketogenic state, fat is your only fuel source. Lots of people stay ketogenic for year without an ill health effects. Do you have any actual science to back up your claims? Unless you're in a severe state of starvation Amino Acids do not make up a significant source of fuel. So that leaves fat and carbohydrates as a fuel source. In a ketogenic state your body relies solely off of fat as a fuel source. Furthermore upregulating fat consumption increases the enyzmes needed for beta oxidation. So eating a ketogenic diet actually makes you a more efficient fat burner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_oxidation

Lol never argued you wouldn't lose weight. It is NOT optimal for someone trying to gain muscle and or strength.

Good luck with your fitness goals in 2013!

[azstrengthcoach]

Lol never argued you wouldn't lose weight. It is NOT optimal for someone trying to gain muscle and or strength.

Good luck with your fitness goals in 2013!

It works great for me. I'm still waiting for why eventually you won't burn fat on a ketogenic diet

[KenJenkinsII]

It works great for me. I'm still waiting for why eventually you won't burn fat on a ketogenic diet

I don't believe he is saying you will not lose weight doing keto, just that it is not the best diet for trying to maintain strength and mass and lose weight

[azstrengthcoach]

I don't believe he is saying you will not lose weight doing keto, just that it is not the best diet for trying to maintain strength and mass and lose weight

He said you only burn fat for a while on a keto diet. So I'm asking what else you burn on a keto diet

[EjnarKolinkar]

Great thread!

Can someone directly address this question?

With a "Cheat" meal, do you still stay within your macros? I don't get the idea... is the idea that you can eat a 6=800 cal meal, blow your daily intake and be fine or are you supposed to skip the next meal cuz you blew your daily load?

We begin to play with definitions, and it gets confusing. Words mean different things to different people. There are a number of schools of thought. Primarily revolving around three goals. A visual change, and a hope to trigger chemical responses in the body, some pshycological effect from taking a break.

You can read about refeeds, cheat meals, high calorie days and there direct effect on leptin response for about 12 hours and not know much more than when you started. Lots of people think increasing calories for a day will have a transient effect of boosting leptin, and improving briefly the hormone systems of metabolism.

Regarding appearance, when low carb dieting for an extended period many people find themselves looking flat. At very low body fat this is more visible. Carb loading, or refeeding the muscles fills them with glycogen and water. This changes appearance. This is where some choose to reduce protein and fats for a day and increase carbs, while maintaining calorie levels most often.

Psychologically taking a day off and eating up is good for some people.

Playing with refeeding when not in a particularly depleted state is considered by many to be a waste of time. Others chose to do it for a hope to achieve some of the rewards anyway. It's hard to tell someone they are doing visual manipulation wrong, especially if they look like a monster. This is why there are so many opinions on the low carb, low body fat, carb loading refeeds.

[induced_drag]

Carl,

I disagree with the idea that you can not make good progress on KETO diets.

Some of the best progress in my life was 2 years I spent doing KETO in my 20's. It was what is now called a CKD diet. The "anabolic Diet" by Dr Mario Depasquale was ahead of its time.

It involved a strict keto diet (less then 20-30g / day) with 36 hr re-feeds once a week. I made AWESOME progress.... Leaned out while gaining strength and mass. Doing this diet was the first time I broke into the 500's on deads...etc. So what I am saying, is I was far from a newb at the time.

Only reason I dont do it now is that it is not very family friendly....and I am not looking to be that extreme. (if you can believe that!)

[ntrllftr]

Carl,

I disagree with the idea that you can not make good progress on KETO diets.

Some of the best progress in my life was 2 years I spent doing KETO in my 20's. It was what is now called a CKD diet. The "anabolic Diet" by Dr Mario Depasquale was ahead of its time.

It involved a strict keto diet (less then 20-30g / day) with 36 hr re-feeds once a week. I made AWESOME progress.... Leaned out while gaining strength and mass. Doing this diet was the first time I broke into the 500's on deads...etc. So what I am saying, is I was far from a newb at the time.

Only reason I dont do it now is that it is not very family friendly....and I am not looking to be that extreme. (if you can believe that!)

Don't get confused with getting leaner while thinking more mass was achieved. I am willing to bet everything that I have if you took measurements they wre not going up in size while losing bodyfat. I do not doubt that you made progress strength wise... Actually I believe it!. I will always beileve that your gains would have been even better if you weren't as depleted as much as you were.

On that note.....

I promised myself a couple years ago that I would not get into diet threads. Which I have not until this one for some gawd aweful reason.
Now I remember why I wanted to stay out of them.

He said you only burn fat for a while on a keto diet. So I'm asking what else you burn on a keto diet

Yer not worth my time!

[KenJenkinsII]

On that note.....

I promised myself a couple years ago that I would not get into diet threads. Which I have not until this one for some gawd aweful reason.
Now I remember why I wanted to stay out of them.

Sorry man, hahaha

[ntrllftr]

Sorry man, hahaha

Negged for making me do it!!!

[azstrengthcoach]

Don't get confused with getting leaner while thinking more mass was achieved. I am willing to bet everything that I have if you took measurements they wre not going up in size while losing bodyfat. I do not doubt that you made progress strength wise... Actually I believe it!. I will always beileve that your gains would have been even better if you weren't as depleted as much as you were.

On that note.....

I promised myself a couple years ago that I would not get into diet threads. Which I have not until this one for some gawd aweful reason.
Now I remember why I wanted to stay out of them.



Yer not worth my time!

So basically you're not willing to back up any of your claims with evidence?

[ntrllftr]

So basically you're not willing to back up any of your claims with evidence?

NO not at all. Yer just not worth my time and energy. What part of that don't you get?

[azstrengthcoach]

NO not at all. Yer just not worth my time and energy. What part of that don't you get?

That's what anyone who has nothing but bro science to back up their claims states. According to you on a keto diet you stop burning fat as a fuel source. So what do you end up burning then as a fuel source?

[ntrllftr]

That's what anyone who has nothing but bro science to back up their claims states. According to you on a keto diet you stop burning fat as a fuel source. So what do you end up burning then as a fuel source?

Have you ever heard the term catabolism?

[azstrengthcoach]

Have you ever heard the term catabolism?

Like I said earlier. Unless you're in a pronounced starvation state amino acids are not a major source of fuel. Btw fat loss is catabolic state too. Catabolism simply means breaking down tissues. If you're losing fat than by definition you're in a catabolic state.

[carbkilla]

Best whey I can explain it is....

Only a BB would misspell way like that lol.


CK

[jasowhit]

I am currrently at 175 lbs and 15% bf and am cutting at 1700 cals/day. My macros are pretty consistent at

150g p
60g f
140g c

I have a desk job and don't do cardio regularly. Maybe a couple of times a week I'll walk my dog for two miles. I guess my question would be: is a carb refeed day even necessary at this point? Or should I wait until my body fat is lower?

[ntrllftr]

I am currrently at 175 lbs and 15% bf and am cutting at 1700 cals/day. My macros are pretty consistent at

150g p
60g f
140g c

I have a desk job and don't do cardio regularly. Maybe a couple of times a week I'll walk my dog for two miles. I guess my question would be: is a carb refeed day even necessary at this point? Or should I wait until my body fat is lower?

My opinion is that you are not getting depleted enough to refeed.
However.... I would strongly recommend that you get the protein intake up another 50grams+ per day if you can.

[wrhalljr]

I am currrently at 175 lbs and 15% bf and am cutting at 1700 cals/day. My macros are pretty consistent at

150g p
60g f
140g c

I have a desk job and don't do cardio regularly. Maybe a couple of times a week I'll walk my dog for two miles. I guess my question would be: is a carb refeed day even necessary at this point? Or should I wait until my body fat is lower?

To simply answer your 1st question...in my opinion NO...you are not doing a very low carb diet so the need to re-feed with carbs is not there...

[jasowhit]

Thanks. I am finishing up my fourth week and luckily I haven't noticed much of a decline, if any in strength. Plush my energy levels throughout the day are pretty good.

[induced_drag]

To simply answer your 1st question...in my opinion NO...you are not doing a very low carb diet so the need to re-feed with carbs is not there...

I agree.....But your cals seem a little too low regardless.

Lyle McDonald will recommend a full diet break at a minimum of a full week after 12 weeks of continuous dieting. This is where you bring your cals back up to maint for a week. Do a search for full diet break and Lyle McDonald.

You might feel better and not need the refeeds so much if you bring your cals up to a more appropriate level. At your size....a 1 lbs per week loss would be MAX. Maybe even a little less at your size.

[jasowhit]

I agree.....But your cals seem a little too low regardless.

Lyle McDonald will recommend a full diet break at a minimum of a full week after 12 weeks of continuous dieting. This is where you bring your cals back up to maint for a week. Do a search for full diet break and Lyle McDonald.

You might feel better and not need the refeeds so much if you bring your cals up to a more appropriate level. At your size....a 1 lbs per week loss would be MAX. Maybe even a little less at your size.

I agree that cals are low. Through trial and error though that appears to be the number for now. Regardless I haven't lost more than a lb a week during the was four weeks. Tomorrow morning is weigh in so we'll see. Also, I am familiar with Lyle McDonald's work and I'll look into his full diet break at twelve weeks.

[azstrengthcoach]

I am currrently at 175 lbs and 15% bf and am cutting at 1700 cals/day. My macros are pretty consistent at

150g p
60g f
140g c

I have a desk job and don't do cardio regularly. Maybe a couple of times a week I'll walk my dog for two miles. I guess my question would be: is a carb refeed day even necessary at this point? Or should I wait until my body fat is lower?

Probably not