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Thread: Carb Refeeding

  1. #1
    Registered User KenJenkinsII's Avatar
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    Carb Refeeding

    I have been reading about guys who do this when they are bulking without the excessive carbs and I have read where some guys have cheat days when cutting but stay within their macros. I am cutting and considering having a meal with a lot of carbs, something like pizza because I have been below 200 g of carbs for several months now and I think it might be helpful. So what are your guy's thoughts on this? Is it worth possibly shocking my system, or is that just bro science? Or should I just have a cheat meal and keep it within my macros?
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    I carb up once a week while leaning our for a show.
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    CARLMAN ntrllftr's Avatar
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    Best whey I can explain it is....

    If you stay at low carbs for an excessive amount of time the body looks to store fat for energy. So, it is best to "refeed" often.
    I am a huge fan of carb cycling! Now heres the thing with cycling carbs... Everyone is different. I have a friend who let's say for example does this...

    75 grms carbs
    150 grams
    250 grams
    150 grams
    75 grams then repeat.

    I on the other hand will go 5 days with about 150grams per day then take a day with 400-450 and repeat.

    It's trial and error to find out what works best for each individual.

    Then again see my sig about science. So, take it for what it's worth.
    Every day counts.

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    Pizza

    Good shock. After weeks of eating clean low glycemic carbs, that pizza is a nice shock. Yea the bread is high on the charts but the cheese slows down the digestion part. I've noticed that after the cheat meal, your body goes ape$hit. You get hot, veiny and hungrier. Key is to know when to stop cuz I can end up eating the whole pie.
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  5. #5
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    I have tried it and have seen no real benefits from it. What I have learned is as long as you keep your daily calories the same you will just see some weight fluctuation but if I went crazzy with the calories like I have read some people do it can ruin my defecit for the week.
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    Originally Posted by tazmanpa View Post
    I have tried it and have seen no real benefits from it. What I have learned is as long as you keep your daily calories the same you will just see some weight fluctuation but if I went crazzy with the calories like I have read some people do it can ruin my defecit for the week.
    That's due to the fact that you weren't truely depleted enough. Also benefits are more visible the leaner a person Is.
    Every day counts.

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    Originally Posted by ntrllftr View Post
    That's due to the fact that you weren't truely depleted enough. Also benefits are more visible the leaner a person Is.

    What he said!
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    Originally Posted by ntrllftr View Post
    Also benefits are more visible the leaner a person Is.
    As well as the more muscle an individual carries.
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

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    So when you do this you maintain your deficit but blow out your macros?
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    Layne Norton recommends weekly refeeds once you go under 10% BF. Above 12=15% it is not necessarily as critical. (I dont know where you are at)

    As you lean out, the effects of carbs and carb depletion are MUCH more visible. I can shift 8lbs on a good refeed...1g of stored glycogen takes almost 3 g of water to store it in the muscle.
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    Originally Posted by jdrub View Post
    Good shock. After weeks of eating clean low glycemic carbs, that pizza is a nice shock. Yea the bread is high on the charts but the cheese slows down the digestion part. I've noticed that after the cheat meal, your body goes ape$hit. You get hot, veiny and hungrier. Key is to know when to stop cuz I can end up eating the whole pie.
    Great idea, this sounds like a legitimate experiment to try on this fine Friday evening...Gourmet Chicken Garlic from Papa Murphys ordered!
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    Originally Posted by ntrllftr View Post
    Best whey I can explain it is....

    If you stay at low carbs for an excessive amount of time the body looks to store fat for energy. So, it is best to "refeed" often.
    I am a huge fan of carb cycling! Now heres the thing with cycling carbs... Everyone is different. I have a friend who let's say for example does this...

    75 grms carbs
    150 grams
    250 grams
    150 grams
    75 grams then repeat.

    I on the other hand will go 5 days with about 150grams per day then take a day with 400-450 and repeat.

    It's trial and error to find out what works best for each individual.

    Then again see my sig about science. So, take it for what it's worth.
    I don't see why it would make you store fat if fat is your only fuel source
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    Originally Posted by azstrengthcoach View Post
    I don't see why it would make you store fat if fat is your only fuel source
    That's because fat is NOT the only fuel source.
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    Layne Norton recommends weekly refeeds once you go under 10% BF. Above 12=15% it is not necessarily as critical. (I dont know where you are at)

    As you lean out, the effects of carbs and carb depletion are MUCH more visible. I can shift 8lbs on a good refeed...1g of stored glycogen takes almost 3 g of water to store it in the muscle.
    I wish I would have seen this before I ate that pizza! Oh well I am about to use my new calipers but I am guessing I am between 15 and 20% still so I might hold off on doing this for now.
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    Originally Posted by KenJenkinsII View Post
    I wish I would have seen this before I ate that pizza! Oh well I am about to use my new calipers but I am guessing I am between 15 and 20% still so I might hold off on doing this for now.
    I'm not exactly low carb but I do increase them on Monday's and Friday's. On 'normal days' I'll eat 170 - 175 gr carbohydrate. On 'high days' (Mon & Fri) I'll lower the fat and I'll eat 300 - 305 gr carbohydrate. Seems to work good for me while on a deficit.
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    At 12ish% I can tell a difference in vascularity when I up the carbs. I stay around 150 or less for the most part, but a day of 250 and I get really veins everywhere when pumped up. I have just started to add a day here and there with extra carbs since I have kinda stalled out on the weight loss. Hope it will help get me going in the right direction again.
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    I'm cutting at the moment and get about 250-300g carbs a day, but the day before legs I bump it up to 400g.

    I eat normal and add extra Orange Juice and cereal with a banana. It's pretty easy to get extra carbs without adding much fat (or protein for that matter).

    Muscles look full the day after and I'm full of energy. It's all good.
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    Originally Posted by k9pit View Post
    I'm cutting at the moment and get about 250-300g carbs a day, but the day before legs I bump it up to 400g.

    I eat normal and add extra Orange Juice and cereal with a banana. It's pretty easy to get extra carbs without adding much fat (or protein for that matter).

    Muscles look full the day after and I'm full of energy. It's all good.
    That would nice. 1600 cals a day in carbs. That would (literally) kill me.
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    So I used up all my calories basically eating carbs today. Measured my bf and it came back at 16% which seems low looking at me. Didn't lift today but my veins are showing like crazy in my arms. May be worth continuing to do, guess a little experimenting wont hurt.
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    Originally Posted by ntrllftr View Post
    That's due to the fact that you weren't truely depleted enough. Also benefits are more visible the leaner a person Is.
    And how would you know? I was on a keto diet and I did two weeks with minimal carbs and never saw any benefits from the carbups. Eating more carbs I don't feel an energy boost, I don't know things definately are not the same for everyone or maybe I have just never been lean enough to see the benfits?
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    Originally Posted by tazmanpa View Post
    And how would you know?
    Been doing this shyt for 25+ years.


    Originally Posted by tazmanpa View Post
    I was on a keto diet and I did two weeks with minimal carbs and never saw any benefits from the carbups. Eating more carbs I don't feel an energy boost, I don't know things definately are not the same for everyone or maybe I have just never been lean enough to see the benfits?
    Ok I'll bite....

    How many carbs were you taking in each day for two weeks and what food source for carbs.
    On your carb load day how many carbs, what food and did you do any cardio or train intensely on the carb load day?
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    Originally Posted by ntrllftr View Post
    Ok I'll bite....

    How many carbs were you taking in each day for two weeks and what food source for carbs.
    On your carb load day how many carbs, what food and did you do any cardio or train intensely on the carb load day?
    That was a while ago but off the top of my head I was keeping carbs around 25 grams with mostly vegies and I was lifting at least 4 days a week and would do a full body depletion workout fasted the day of the carb load. I got the information from the keto forum on how many carbs for refeed I think it was at least 2X your body weight. I tried different food for the refeeds and I even did the pizza buffet once and stayed away from the meat toppings to help reduce the fat intake. I have been unable to get below 160 lbs because of my apetite but with keto I managed to get to 153 and that was about as low as I could get it.
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    Originally Posted by tazmanpa View Post
    That was a while ago but off the top of my head I was keeping carbs around 25 grams with mostly vegies and I was lifting at least 4 days a week and would do a full body depletion workout fasted the day of the carb load. I got the information from the keto forum on how many carbs for refeed I think it was at least 2X your body weight. I tried different food for the refeeds and I even did the pizza buffet once and stayed away from the meat toppings to help reduce the fat intake. I have been unable to get below 160 lbs because of my apetite but with keto I managed to get to 153 and that was about as low as I could get it.
    Based on this I have to say that the "depleted workout fasted" was unnecessary. If you were taking in only 25 grams of carbs and training... You were already depleted before doing this. Actually, it would be counter productive of building muscle IMO. 2x bodyweight is a good baseline to start with. I recommend using potatoes or rice rather than pizza for the carbs. A good thing to try is going with a two day with something like 200 grams then 350 then low. My guess it that you were already depleted after a couple to three days with only 25 grams a day and should cycle them closer together if you go that low. Again I highly recommend never to go that low while building or maintaining muscle.

    So, I do stand by my original words... Paying attention to detail is what makes or breaks the refeed. There is not thinking or guessing after a person figures out what is best for them.
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    Originally Posted by ntrllftr View Post
    Based on this I have to say that the "depleted workout fasted" was unnecessary. If you were taking in only 25 grams of carbs and training... You were already depleted before doing this. Actually, it would be counter productive of building muscle IMO. 2x bodyweight is a good baseline to start with. I recommend using potatoes or rice rather than pizza for the carbs. A good thing to try is going with a two day with something like 200 grams then 350 then low. My guess it that you were already depleted after a couple to three days with only 25 grams a day and should cycle them closer together if you go that low. Again I highly recommend never to go that low while building or maintaining muscle.

    So, I do stand by my original words... Paying attention to detail is what makes or breaks the refeed. There is not thinking or guessing after a person figures out what is best for them.
    That was some of the extremes I tried, I did try many different things. The main thing is on keto I never felt an energy drop but I am a low energy person to begin with. I am trying a very slow gain right now on a high volume routine so I am keeping my carbs up around 300 so I don't have to worry about any of this right now but I will keep it in mind when my next cut comes around.
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    Originally Posted by ntrllftr View Post
    That's because fat is NOT the only fuel source.
    Google is -------------------->
    If you're on a ketogenic diet fat is your fuel source
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    Ok people, this guy is trying to confuse everyone with an open ended statement....

    Originally Posted by azstrengthcoach View Post
    If you're on a ketogenic diet fat is your fuel source
    I will expand on it....
    Yes, it is true that fat will be burned for an amount of time. To be in ketosis for extended periods of time is not wise.
    When a person is truely in a ketosis state for extended periods of time, health problems may occur not to mention proper brain function. There is a reason why nobody does the Polumbo diet anymore.
    For a person who wants to gain/maintain muscle mass/strength carb ups "refeeds" to restore glycogen levels are imparative.
    Without doing so... A person will be spinning thier wheels.
    I could have used technical terms and went into more depth but as I told this guy once already....


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    Originally Posted by KenJenkinsII View Post
    So when you do this you maintain your deficit but blow out your macros?
    Great thread!

    Can someone directly address this question?

    With a "Cheat" meal, do you still stay within your macros? I don't get the idea... is the idea that you can eat a 6=800 cal meal, blow your daily intake and be fine or are you supposed to skip the next meal cuz you blew your daily load?
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    Originally Posted by DesertDude11 View Post
    Great thread!

    Can someone directly address this question?

    With a "Cheat" meal, do you still stay within your macros? I don't get the idea... is the idea that you can eat a 6=800 cal meal, blow your daily intake and be fine or are you supposed to skip the next meal cuz you blew your daily load?
    This counting calories has gotten blown whey out of proportion over the past year or so if you ask me.
    I have and always will keep it simple...
    Every meal is protein rich.
    Carbs are adjusted to the scale.
    Healthy fats by eating nuts throughout the day.

    So IMO if a person is on a keto diet one cheat meal isn't going to do it. You need to eat carbs through a day. This is where a lot of people get frustrated and or confused when they spend all the time going very low on carbs then only eat one meal with "higher" carbs. They most likely won't see any result from just one meal.

    So, in short... Calorie smalorie!
    Last edited by ntrllftr; 01-19-2013 at 08:29 AM.
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    Originally Posted by ntrllftr View Post
    This counting calories has gotten blown whey out of proportion over the past year or so if you ask me.
    I have and alway will keep it simple...
    Every meal is protein rich.
    Carbs are adjusted to the scale.
    Healthy fats by eating nuts throughout the day.

    So IMO if a person is on a keto diet one cheat meal isn't going to do it. You need to eat carbs through a day. This is where a lot of people get frustrated and or confused when they spend all the time going very low on carbs then only eat one meal with "higher" carbs. They most likely won't see any result from just one meal.

    So, in short... Macro smackro!
    That may be all well and good for someone like you who has "Been doing this shyt for 25+ years." But, for some dumb slob like me who put on 40 extra pounds by eating like an idiot after quitting smoking for 25+ years, smackro's have been pretty damn useful in dropping that fuggin extra fat. Counting calories has been extremely useful as well. Prior to doing so, I would have never known how much I was consuming... which, in fact, was a LOT.

    I understand where you are coming from because it's all you hear about on these boards and that is because it is the most critical piece of weight gain and loss.
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    Originally Posted by DesertDude11 View Post
    That may be all well and good for someone like you who has "Been doing this shyt for 25+ years." But, for some dumb slob like me who put on 40 extra pounds by eating like an idiot after quitting smoking for 25+ years, smackro's have been pretty damn useful in dropping that fuggin extra fat. Counting calories has been extremely useful as well. Prior to doing so, I would have never known how much I was consuming... which, in fact, was a LOT.

    I understand where you are coming from because it's all you hear about on these boards and that is because it is the most critical piece of weight gain and loss.
    Not really. What you did was cut the garbage out and whatched what you ate.(most likely) and great job man for doing it. That stuff is hard to keep up! Knowing the amount of protein and or carbs per meal is exactly the same as someone who counts the calories in that meal. I think it is easier. that's all.
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