Why aren't Christians killing gays?

[Sargamatha]

old testament laws don't apply in modern times.


ever seen Orthadox Jews stoning people?

NO,
because the bible also says to respect the Law of the land.

Amen.

Lol'd at OP's argument

[Sargamatha]

I thought that absolutely no mention of homosexuality was made in the New Testament. And yet Christians still want to legislate away the gay.

I think God made it clear why he made woman in the first place.

[No7]

I think God made it clear why he made woman in the first place.

u wot m8

[Singularity7]

Its all about context. The bible isn't some story novel. Its about context within the book, within the chapter, and the verse.

The old testament was a story and it provided background information and these said prophecies for the New Testament.
I can't possibly see any other context within a verse that is so painfully wrong and immoral.

[lasher]

Its all about context. The bible isn't some story novel. Its about context within the book, within the chapter, and the verse.

Christians aren't allowed to apply context to the things they read, are you new here?

[PrettyPinkDonut]

I'll compliment your well written and easily understood reply but your last paragraph made me double take.

Specifically this



Could you expand on this? What negative impacts to health and society does homosexuality cause?

100% of failed societies probably had some gay folk in it....stats speak for themselves yo

[negurabunget]

there's no contradiction... only ignorance of people who call themselves intellectuals, picking at things they don't actually understand.







go on the street and ask 10 random people about Evoloutionary Theory... 100% chance of a different answer every time.

Try going to biology class instead. Ask the question where it's relevant.

[lasher]

Try going to biology class instead. Ask the question where it's relevant.

The same can be said to those who think they've found oodles of biblical contradictions. Go point them out to NT, greek/hebrew language scholars, and ask the question where it's relevant.

[Fing3rs]

I thought that absolutely no mention of homosexuality was made in the New Testament. And yet Christians still want to legislate away the gay.

I think it's mentioned in the Epistle to the Romans

[lasher]

I think it's mentioned in the Epistle to the Romans

chapter 1.

[No7]

The same can be said to those who think they've found oodles of biblical contradictions. Go point them out to NT, greek/hebrew language scholars, and ask the question where it's relevant.

making sense never helps in an argument lasher tut tut

[lasher]

making sense never helps in an argument lasher tut tut

[negurabunget]

The same can be said to those who think they've found oodles of biblical contradictions. Go point them out to NT, greek/hebrew language scholars, and ask the question where it's relevant.

I made no claims of biblical contradictions. However, the comparison is rather strange seeing as my response to bluejay is contextually a response to his views of evolution and not really much else.

Edit: Of course you would get more consistently similar answers in a learned class with more backing behind the answers. That's the point.

[lasher]

I made no claims of biblical contradictions. However, the comparison is rather strange seeing as my response to bluejay is contextually a response to his views of evolution and not really much else.

No, you didn't, my bad implying that. But it's a running theme around here so I figured I'd use your post to make an apropos comparison.

[MURedHawk235]

there's no contradiction... only ignorance of people who call themselves intellectuals, picking at things they don't actually understand.







go on the street and ask 10 random people about Evoloutionary Theory... 100% chance of a different answer every time.

But they don't use evolutionary theory to live their lives like Christians use the Bible.

[Fiyero]

The majority of the arguments Christians (not all Lasher, calm down with your brush comments) have about gay marriage is something along of the lines "The Bible/God says so"....



So why don't these Christians man up and start really obeying the orders of the Bible?

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This thread is sponsored by pkahnman

Mainly because Christianity is dominate in the Western, secular world where people can't get away with it.

However, it happens in other parts of the world. Uganda is passing/passed the "Kill the gays" Bill, so they could imprison and exterminate any gay they can get a hold of. Uganda is 85% Christian.

[Fiyero]

chapter 1.

Which has nothing to do with gay people. Even the early church fathers pointed that out. Romans 1 has been so abused it's not even funny. If it's talking about gays, Romans 2 means every single human being is gay.

[Fiyero]

W

Lol how can you compare homosexuality to bestiality.

Because that's all he knows how to do. He's a rabid anti-gay bigot who equates being gay with child molestation and beastiality.

[Fiyero]

I thought it was pretty clear that Christians follow the New Testament.

OP are u aware that Leviticus is in the Old Testament?

Doesn't stop them from quoting Leviticus to condemn gays. Fundies only follow the laws they find convenient. Jesus himself said he didn't do away with the law.

[Fiyero]

You do realize Jesus changed all that don't you? You may remember him stopping the stoning of an adulterer.

Matthew 5:17“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

[Fiyero]

We follow both. Please explain your reasoning.

No Christian on earth follows the laws in the Torah unless it's by accident.

[Fiyero]

First link on the page when I searched for 'what does new testament say about homosexuality'
http://westarinstitute.org/Periodica...sexuality.html

It's been a while since I've read the NT so I can't remember. If I recalled a passage I wouldn't be able to say whether or not it was NT or OT.

There is a wiki page on the topic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosex..._New_Testament

The only 2 verses in the New Testament that mention same-sex behavior are Romans 1 and 1 Corinthians 6:9 (3 if you count a Timothy verse that is a duplicate to Corinthians). They are 2 of the most butchered verses in the entire Bible. 1 Corinthians 6:9 is a textual corruption. "Homosexual" was not added to that verse until 1948. It has never in the 1900 years prior referred to homosexuals. In fact, for the entire Protestant Reformation, it condemned masturbation. The issue with that verse is based on a very vague Greek word that Paul invented. According to 1st Century Jewish scholars, Paul was condemning temple prostitutes.

Romans 1 is referring to pagan worship rituals and the hedonistic practices of the Greco-Romans. Christians had reverted to their old ways, and began creating idols in the shape of animals they worshipped instead of God. As punishment, God gave them over to their hedonism, and men began presumably having anal sex with the women in the temples as part of their pagan worship. Paul's entire audience in Romans 1 was not gay. And in Romans 2, Paul says that anyone who condemns those people will not escape judgement, because everyone does the exact same thing. Which logically means, if Paul is condemning gays in Romans 1, he's calling everybody gay in Romans 2.

Conservative "Christians" have butchered those 2 verses beyond all recognition. Pulling them out of context, language, and original culture. All to justify their bigotry and hatred of gays.

[Fiyero]

No hate, but it is immoral by Gods standards. Sometimes it comes out as hate, forgive us. But understand this, we dont want to perish as Sodom and Gomorrah did.

Do you even know why Sodom was destroyed? The Bible tells you and it wasn't because of gays. The word Sodom, does not come from the same word as Sodomy. They are linguistically unrelated.

[lasher]

Which has nothing to do with gay people. Even the early church fathers pointed that out. Romans 1 has been so abused it's not even funny. If it's talking about gays, Romans 2 means every single human being is gay.

I'm not saying it necessarily does, but that is the chapter referred to typically when ascertaining paul's stance on homosexuality. That said, I've read the defences about it only referring to temple prostitution and or rape, and I don't find them particularly convincing.

Which early Church Father's are you referring to? And which specific writing? I'm familiar with many of them.

And you'll need to be more specific about chapter 2. I'm not understanding the inference you are making.

[Fiyero]

I'm not saying it necessarily does, but that is the chapter referred to typically when ascertaining paul's stance on homosexuality. That said, I've read the defences about it only referring to temple prostitution and or rape, and I don't find them particularly convincing.

Why not?

"But if one has relations even with one’s wife in a part of the body which was not made for begetting children, such relations are against nature and indecent. In fact, the same apostle earlier said the same thing about the women, For their women exchanged natural relations for those which are against nature (Rom 1:26).

Augustine, Marriage and Desire 20.35 (trans. Roland Teske; ed. John E Rotelle; Answer to the Pelagians, II; New York: New City Press, 1990), 75-76.

And this is an article on Romans 1 and it's complicated relation to the culture of the Greeks and Romans, and pagan worship/pederasty.
http://wordandworld.luthersem.edu/co...3_Hultgren.pdf

And of course, seeing as sexual orientation wasn't even discovered until the late 19th Century, assuming a letter written by Paul to Greeks and Romans 2000 years ago applies to all gay people is quite a logical leap.

And you'll need to be more specific about chapter 2. I'm not understanding the inference you are making.

This section immediately follows the infamous "anti-gay" passage in Romans 1.

Romans 2You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?


So why are anti-gays passing judgement on gays with Romans 1, when Paul says they do the same things and will not escape judgement?

[mainsqueeze530]

Doesn't stop them from quoting Leviticus to condemn gays. Fundies only follow the laws they find convenient. Jesus himself said he didn't do away with the law.

I would definitely agree that a great amount of Christians develop their beliefs on homosexuality based off what they're preached rather than doing their own studies. That's why homosexuality is a big controversy in Christianity. Homosexuality is stressed throughout the OT as a forbidden act. In the NT, there are no scriptures that directly forbid homosexuality -- but the Bible is known to address the word through apparent implications, hence the majority of the Christian community believe there's a few verses in the NT that imply homosexuality as a sin. Some think it carried on from the OT.

As a Christian, I'm unsure if homosexuality is a sin; I'm more inclined to say it's not. The scriptures don't seem very evident to be completely sure.

[NYbrah]

I would definitely agree that a great amount of Christians develop their beliefs on homosexuality based off what they're preached rather than doing their own studies. That's why homosexuality is a big controversy in Christianity. Homosexuality is stressed throughout the OT as a forbidden act. In the NT, there are no scriptures that directly forbid homosexuality -- but the Bible is known to address the word through apparent implications, hence the majority of the Christian community believe there's a few verses in the NT that imply homosexuality as a sin. Some think it carried on from the OT.

As a Christian, I'm unsure if homosexuality is a sin; I'm more inclined to say it's not. The scriptures don't seem very evident to be completely sure.

there is no big controversy over homosex in christianity. its just recently and few who are trying to misinterpret bible to justify their homosex. most agree bible is against homosex.

[mainsqueeze530]

there is no big controversy over homosex in christianity. its just recently and few who are trying to misinterpret bible to justify their homosex. most agree bible is against homosex.

Homosexually is preached to be a sin in Christianity, and most DO agree that it's a sin, but there's a substantial amount of Christians that do not believe in it.

[TH3SHR3DD3R]

there is no big controversy over homosex in christianity. its just recently and few who are trying to misinterpret bible to justify their homosex. most agree bible is against homosex.

Most people think the Bible was written in English. Most people have poor exegesis skills.

Ladies and gentlemen, NYBrah.

[Sargamatha]

I thought that absolutely no mention of homosexuality was made in the New Testament. And yet Christians still want to legislate away the gay.

Romans 1
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.