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  1. #1
    Able to speak freely Segansational's Avatar
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    USP Labs VERSA-1: Aegeline/Anacylcus?

    So the new USP Labs product VERSA-1 recently released the compound ingredients below.

    1 capsule:
    Proprietary Blend 400 mg
    N-[2-hydroxy-2(4-methoxyphenyl)ethyl]-3-phenyl-2-propenamide, Cytidine 5’-diphoscholine

    As many people have already pointed out, the first compound listed is aegeline, which shows antihyperlipidemic, antihyperglycemic and antidyslipidemic properties in diabetic rat models. Also, it has been postulated to be a beta(3)-adrenergic receptor agonist as well. This is one of the ingredients in the new formulation of OEP, and certainly makes sense for inclusion in a weight loss formula and makes sense based on the results of leaning out that some users of VERSA-1 reported. However, it is the purported anabolic properties of OEP that I am more interested in. If you look at the third reference cited by USP Labs, they list Sharma et al., which is actually anacyclus pyrethrum. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22473789

    Following up on this, it seems more likely that this compound is responsible for the anabolic properties and lean mass gains reported by users in the test logs. Taken from the Sharma abstract:

    Extract administration at all the doses produced significant increase in body weight, sperm count, motility, and viability along with serum testosterone, luteinizing hormone, and follicle-stimulating hormone concentrations... Our results suggest that the ethanol solution extract of the roots of A. pyrethrum has androgenic potential...
    Additionally, an earlier publication from 2010 from the same group (full study is available on pubmed here, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20727332) demonstrated improved sexual behavior in male rats following an ethanol extract of anacyclus pyrethrum, but more interestingly, also demonstrated significant improvements in body weight and sexual organs (testes, prostate, seminal vesicles, and epididymides), similar to administration of testosterone. This led the authors to conclude that anacyclus had both anabolic and androgenic properties.

    Now, while I'm not keen on the idea of an enlarged prostate, this does make this compound seem very interesting. But the question is then, is N-[2-hydroxy-2(4-methoxyphenyl)ethyl]-3-phenyl-2-propenamide found in anacyclus pyrethrum?

    THEHUGE had experimented with anacyclus awhile back (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...4866411&page=1), and I know that this is the ingredient in PES' Anabeta, which also generated a lot of buzz in the beginning, although I haven't heard much about it lately.

    So I was curious to see what others thoughts were on this subject and whether anyone knows if aegeline is also found in extracts of anacyclus pyrethrum.
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  2. #2
    Banned HilaryClinton's Avatar
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    Many, many herbs exhibit pro-androgenic effects in rat models. The translation to human models is often absent.
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    Able to speak freely Segansational's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HilaryClinton View Post
    Many, many herbs exhibit pro-androgenic effects in rat models. The translation to human models is often absent.
    Agreed. Fadogia is the most similar recent extract with similar properties that I can recall. But I don't remember seeing overall increases in bodyweight, just testes with fadogia. Also, this study showed similar increases to testosterone administration, and I don't believe the fadogia studies used an active comparator.
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  4. #4
    Able to speak freely Segansational's Avatar
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    Maybe NO HYPE or THEHUGE can comment on their thoughts.
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  5. #5
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    Aegiline isn't in anacyclus pyrethrum. What made you even think that?
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    Originally Posted by HilaryClinton View Post
    Aegiline isn't in anacyclus pyrethrum. What made you even think that?
    The only reference in the USPLabs write-up mentioning a plant source was to a study on anacylus pyrethrum, they were trying to show a link between effects of a similar compound that is extracted from anacylys pyrethrum to demonstrate potential MOA of Aegeline in ths product
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    Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    The only reference in the USPLabs write-up mentioning a plant source was to a study on anacylus pyrethrum, they were trying to show a link between effects of a similar compound that is extracted from anacylys pyrethrum to demonstrate potential MOA of Aegeline in ths product
    Ah. What's the compound from anacyclus with similar effects?
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  8. #8
    interact with me PinchTheBear's Avatar
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    Aegeline looks like a great selective b3 agonist because with b3 you can replace a para H-bond donor with an acceptor (methoxy group in this case) and preserve agonist activity without targeting b1 and b2. However, because of its predominance in hibernating animals, brown adipose tissue and b3 receptors are a largely inconsequential target in humans. Physiologically there are a lot of inconsistencies regarding tachyphylaxis and agonist affinities between b3 and b1/2, and it makes sense if you think about the respective physiological differences viz. b3 predominance in hibernating animals.
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  9. #9
    Molecular Nutrition Rep SwolenONE's Avatar
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    Registered User Anabolicmode's Avatar
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    USP Labs VERSA-1: Aegeline/Anacylcus?

    This is my understanding of the reference USP cited: (3)Sharma V, Boonen J, Spiegeleer BD, et al.

    - Aegeline is not the same as anacylcus. However the extract from both contains N-Alkylamide.
    -The phytochemical studies carried out in A. pyrethrum suggested presence of alkylamide and polymeric carbohydrates. Both have been reported to possess potent androgenic activity; hence, the alkylamide content found in the investigated ethanol solution extract may be implicated for the observed effects for A.pyrethrum extract in treated rats.(Sharma V, Boonen J, Spiegeleer BD, et al).

    -Using that study(3) as a reference for aegeline is a questionable. I would like for USP to explain the specific relationship of their product and the alkylamides in question in that publication. N-alkylamides can also occur in plants such as Ecinacea.

    -Stacking: The ingredients label on OES listed it as aegeline and the chemical name N-[2-hydroxy-2(4-methoxyphenyl)ethyl]-3-phenyl-2-propenamide for versa-1. Since we don't know the specific amount in both of them, can they be stacked together?

    -Other scientist would argue that the anabolism that aegeline induces is likely restricted to adipocytes since humans are extremely insensitive to beta(3)-AR agonism.

    -In my opinion, I don't think there is enough evidence to discredit USP and also I don't think that the studies they presented strongly back their claim. Hence the beta testing was somewhat used as a non clinical human trial for this product.

    -I am a fan of USP labs for their innovation. I really really hope that they are researching the safety of their product enough. Some in the supplement industry recycles the same old products and switched the name to their chemical name or something else because they think we are all dumb. More and more people are beginning to actually research their claims and their products. We need to call out all the cabbage as soon as we see them.
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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by Anabolicmode View Post
    - Aegeline is not the same as anacylcus. However the extract from both contains N-Alkylamide.
    "N-alkylamide" does not refer to any specific compound. It is a simply nomenclature for a very broad class of compounds.
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    Registered User Magnetotropic's Avatar
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    Interestingly enough, I was perusing the chemical databases for other para-methoxy-octopamine amide derivatives and ran into "Tembamide."

    Apparently, PES Alphamine has used this compound for awhile without many people noticing. It's likely they derive their "pubmed research" from rodent studies which do not translate to humans, although they do not cite any sources. It's also likely that they did not realize that tembamide was a P-OMe-octopamine precursor.

    arkat-usa. org/get-file/19523/
    njeong-chem-korea .ac.kr/publication/image/pdf/47.Tetrahedron.pdf
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  13. #13
    Able to speak freely Segansational's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    The only reference in the USPLabs write-up mentioning a plant source was to a study on anacylus pyrethrum, they were trying to show a link between effects of a similar compound that is extracted from anacylys pyrethrum to demonstrate potential MOA of Aegeline in ths product
    Originally Posted by Anabolicmode View Post

    -Using that study(3) as a reference for aegeline is a questionable. I would like for USP to explain the specific relationship of their product and the alkylamides in question in that publication. N-alkylamides can also occur in plants such as Ecinacea.
    ^ This is what I was trying to get at.

    If they are just citing the anacylcus research to say there might be an anabolic/androgenic property with aegeline, just because another herb has displayed this, then that is a complete misuse and citation of the data.

    But if they are trying to say, or hint at, that some of the same actives in their product may be found in anacyclus - and hence the anabolic/androgenic properties as outlined in the research - I would like to know that. If this is the case though, it would have to be aegeline, since there is no other ingredient listed aside from citicholine. Unless they left off an ingredient.
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    Registered User Anabolicmode's Avatar
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    USP Labs VERSA-1: Aegeline/Anacylcus?

    Originally Posted by Magnetotropic View Post
    "N-alkylamide" does not refer to any specific compound. It is a simply nomenclature for a very broad class of compounds.
    I am sorry if I wasn't clear. I know N-alkylamide does not refer to any specific compound. I was able to get the full papers from pubmed. I was speculating on the reason USP lab cited that paper(3). The only relationship I can find between Aegeline and anacyclus is the fact that their extact contains some kind of alkylamide. That is the reason I also stated that Ecinacea extract also contain the same class of compounds.

    USP Lab Reference.

    (1)Antihyperglycemic and antidyslipidemic agent from Aegle marmelos.

    (3) Androgenic and Spermatogenic Activity of Alkylamide-Rich Ethanol Solution Extract of Anacyclus pyrethrum DC*. (Questionable)

    Segansational has a very good point about why that paper was cited as part of the research that back their claims. After reading both references (1) and (3) by USP labs, I can find no relationship between these two except that some kind of alkylamide was isolated. Even though I have my reservations, I was also careful not to jump into any conclusion or discredit any claim until USP lab can explain this.
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    Originally Posted by Magnetotropic View Post
    "N-alkylamide" does not refer to any specific compound. It is a simply nomenclature for a very broad class of compounds.
    [QUOTE=Magnetotropic;1010470363]Interestingly enough, I was perusing the chemical databases for other para-methoxy-octopamine amide derivatives and ran into "Tembamide."

    Apparently, PES Alphamine has used this compound for awhile without many people noticing. It's likely they derive their "pubmed research" from rodent studies which do not translate to humans, although they do not cite any sources. It's also likely that they did not realize that tembamide was a P-OMe-octopamine precursor.

    You are very correct PES has also used , N-(2-hydroxy-2-pmethoxyphenylethyl)benzamide for alphamine. I wonder why USP is trying to patent it when it has been used before for the same purpose. Or maybe they are trying to patent their propriety blend. I read PES alphamine product description, they did not elaborate on it either.
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    [QUOTE=Anabolicmode;1010604673]
    Originally Posted by Magnetotropic View Post
    Interestingly enough, I was perusing the chemical databases for other para-methoxy-octopamine amide derivatives and ran into "Tembamide."

    Apparently, PES Alphamine has used this compound for awhile without many people noticing. It's likely they derive their "pubmed research" from rodent studies which do not translate to humans, although they do not cite any sources. It's also likely that they did not realize that tembamide was a P-OMe-octopamine precursor.

    You are very correct PES has also used , N-(2-hydroxy-2-pmethoxyphenylethyl)benzamide for alphamine. I wonder why USP is trying to patent it when it has been used before for the same purpose. Or maybe they are trying to patent their propriety blend. I read PES alphamine product description, they did not elaborate on it either.
    It's not the same ingredient.

    Tembamide:


    Aegeline


    Although, interestingly enough, BOTH compounds can be found in both Aegle Marmelos, as well as another plant.

    Also, in studies on the antispermatogenic effects of Aegle Marmelos, the effect increased as the concentration of the extract increased, which would not bode well for USPLabs saying it gets more anabolic the more you take.


    Some reading:

    In vitro effect of Aegle marmelos on human sperm
    motility


    Medicinal Values of Bael
    (Aegle marmelos) (L.) Corr.: A Review


    An asymmetric dihydroxylation route to
    (R)-(–)-octopamine, (R)-(–)-tembamide and (R)-(–)-aegeline


    Shahidine, a novel and highly labile oxazoline from Aegle marmelos: the parent
    compound of aegeline and related amides
    Last edited by De__eB; 01-16-2013 at 10:01 AM.
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    Originally Posted by De__eB View Post

    It's not the same ingredient.
    I am aware it is not the same ingredient.

    However, after amide hydrolysis, both convert into para-Ome-octopamine, which is probably responsible for the hypoglycemic/antihyperdyslipidemic properties of aegeline in mammals via beta3 agonism.
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    Originally Posted by Anabolicmode View Post
    You are very correct PES has also used , N-(2-hydroxy-2-pmethoxyphenylethyl)benzamide for alphamine. I wonder why USP is trying to patent it when it has been used before for the same purpose. Or maybe they are trying to patent their propriety blend. I read PES alphamine product description, they did not elaborate on it either.
    It is a different amide, however en vivo, they both convert into the same compound.
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    Originally Posted by Magnetotropic View Post
    I am aware it is not the same ingredient.

    However, after amide hydrolysis, both convert into para-Ome-octopamine, which is probably responsible for the hypoglycemic/antihyperdyslipidemic properties of aegeline in mammals via beta3 agonism.
    sorry, was trying to quote anabolicmode but he had messed up his quote of you so it grabbed the wrong one
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    Smile

    @ De__eB: Thanks for the corrections.
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    Nice...was looking out this explanation ^^
    ~ GrowUpOrDieTryin'
    "For physical training is of some value,but godliness has value for all things,holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.
    This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance." 1 Timothy 4:8-10

    Reviews:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=142138131 - Friction
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    Smile

    You know, I won free products from USPLabs. I have always liked their OxyElite Pro, which is the greatest Thermo I have ever experienced. I also like Jack3d original.
    I won some Versa-1 from USPLabs, and I am half way through the bottle. I have to say, I am getting better workouts, exponentially better. Better focus, drive, energy, pump, vascularity, and stamina.
    The truth is, this product is working. If you haven’t tried it, then I don’t know why you are bashing it. Grab a bottle and do a log. Even if it works only as a placebo, then oh well. I like it and I am getting ripped and prepping for Ranger School.
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    Originally Posted by drewsicle3210 View Post
    If you haven’t tried it, then I don’t know why you are bashing it.
    This isn't the company ass-kissing section.

    It's the science section.... where USPlab products consistently lack established MOA's and generally have nothing to support their outlandish claims other than placebo-mediated anecdotal feedback.
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    USPlabs LLC Announces a Recall of OxyElite Pro Dietary Supplements Due to Possible Health Risk



    Contact:
    Consumer:
    USPlabs LLC
    1-800-890-3067


    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE —November 9, 2013 – USPlabs LLC, Dallas, TX is voluntarily conducting a national recall of all lots and sizes of the OxyElite Pro dietary supplement products listed below. These products contain Aegeline, a synthesized version of a natural extract from the Bael tree.

    Epidemiological evidence shows that use of these products has been associated with serious adverse health consequences, namely serious liver damage or acute liver failure, concentrated in Hawaii. Investigations are ongoing into a potential causal relationship. The Company agrees with FDA that a national recall is appropriate as a precautionary measure. Product was distributed nationwide through retail stores, mail orders and direct delivery.

    OxyElite Pro Super Thermo capsules

    2 count capsules UPC #094922417275
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    90 count capsules "Pink label" UPC #094922447906
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    OxyElite Pro Ultra-Intense Thermo capsules

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    OxyElite Pro Super Thermo Powder

    Fruit Punch 0.15 oz UPC #094922417237
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    Fruit Punch 4.6 oz UPC #094922426369
    Fruit Punch 5 oz. UPC #094922447487
    Blue Raspberry 4.6 oz UPC #094922426376
    Grape Bubblegum 4.6 oz UPC #094922447500
    Green Apple 4.6 oz. UPC #094922426499

    No other products produced by USPlabs are subject to recall. Consumers who have purchased the products should immediately discontinue use of the product and return it to where they purchased it for a refund. Contact your health care professional if you have experienced any adverse effects.
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