Vegan Body Building! Nutrition, supplements, PROTEIN? First Timer

[BleuSam]

( I stuck this in nutrition by mistake before I realized there is a female body building section, sorry )

Hello!
So after struggling with myself last year to really get into shape, I decided at the start of this year, I would go vegan, and also do body building. (Not competitively). I am officially one week and a day into being Vegan, and haven't missed a single workout.
Why and I doing it? -Just to clarify, I'm not looking for anyone to talk me out of being vegan, I know it is probably not widely accepted on the BB forums, but I'm doing it even though it's misunderstood to be a pansy thing. And I LOVE meat, I like my steaks thick, marbled, rare and swimming in blood, and have eaten an entire turkey on my own before, there is no shortage of love for meat on my part, but I really needed a change and I wanted to challenge myself to the max-
HOWEVER
I am having a hard time understanding dietary rules to this way of life. So many websites that support vegan have all these scrawny people endorsing it, which is neither here or there, but want to be muscly and fit, like a freaking VIKING . I have been given evidence that it is completely possible to do this. I just need a little help.

Here is what I am currently eating
I'll have homemade granola ( or steel cut oats) in almond milk with banana, and I mix in 3 spoonfulls of brown rice protein with all my vitamins for breakfast.
On the go I have almonds, prunes, water with whole lemons juiced, a banana and my vitamins. Breakfast
I snack regularly on fruit, nuts, granola, carrots ect throughout the day
Lunch is usually a sweet potato, with asparagus, sometimes brown rice and black beans. Sometimes a side of pasta salad.
I usually workout around mid day, so I have a sweet potato half before my workout, drink plenty of water during, then after I have 2 homemade vegan protein muffins made with oatflour or 2 bananas.
Dinner is hard since I work nights, but I go there and since I work in the deli (Ironic right?) I make myself pita with veggies and a teaspoon of veganaise, maybe a side of fruit. I'll snack on almonds sometimes until 7 hit, then no more food after that, just water.

I have some issues with variety since our fridge is full of stuff the rest of my family likes, so my stuff is kind of pushed to the side. I'm wanting to meal plan, like prep weekly meals in advance like I see some bodybuilders I follow on instagram do, and buy a little fridge and pay some electric bill so I can have my meals.

PROTEIN
So right now I'm only doing brown rice protein. I have heard of whey, and am okay with using that ( even though it's not vegan, I was originally planning on having 1 day a week for cheat meals with eggs or fish,but decided to go full on). I have muscle milk already ( my stepdads) but I heard that is high in fat, and not good for ladies. What do you suggest? What brands? I've heard of Casin too, but not too sure what that is all about. I;m sort of understanding, I just need some help setting up and understanding protein supplements.

I'd like to be able to gain muscle while still cutting fat out of the picture. I've heard you can do both at the same time, but I've also heard you cant.

I have a background in weightlifting, crossfit, health and fitness, training and all that, so I'm not totally clueless, this is just new ground for me

If needed I can include my workout schedule, and what I do for lower, upper and cardio day if that helps.

Thanks for all the advice!

-Sam

[BEEvon]

( I stuck this in nutrition by mistake before I realized there is a female body building section, sorry )

Hello!
So after struggling with myself last year to really get into shape, I decided at the start of this year, I would go vegan, and also do body building. (Not competitively). I am officially one week and a day into being Vegan, and haven't missed a single workout.
Why and I doing it? -Just to clarify, I'm not looking for anyone to talk me out of being vegan, I know it is probably not widely accepted on the BB forums, but I'm doing it even though it's misunderstood to be a pansy thing. And I LOVE meat, I like my steaks thick, marbled, rare and swimming in blood, and have eaten an entire turkey on my own before, there is no shortage of love for meat on my part, but I really needed a change and I wanted to challenge myself to the max-
HOWEVER
I am having a hard time understanding dietary rules to this way of life. So many websites that support vegan have all these scrawny people endorsing it, which is neither here or there, but want to be muscly and fit, like a freaking VIKING . I have been given evidence that it is completely possible to do this. I just need a little help.

Here is what I am currently eating
I'll have homemade granola ( or steel cut oats) in almond milk with banana, and I mix in 3 spoonfulls of brown rice protein with all my vitamins for breakfast.
On the go I have almonds, prunes, water with whole lemons juiced, a banana and my vitamins. Breakfast
I snack regularly on fruit, nuts, granola, carrots ect throughout the day
Lunch is usually a sweet potato, with asparagus, sometimes brown rice and black beans. Sometimes a side of pasta salad.
I usually workout around mid day, so I have a sweet potato half before my workout, drink plenty of water during, then after I have 2 homemade vegan protein muffins made with oatflour or 2 bananas.
Dinner is hard since I work nights, but I go there and since I work in the deli (Ironic right?) I make myself pita with veggies and a teaspoon of veganaise, maybe a side of fruit. I'll snack on almonds sometimes until 7 hit, then no more food after that, just water.

I have some issues with variety since our fridge is full of stuff the rest of my family likes, so my stuff is kind of pushed to the side. I'm wanting to meal plan, like prep weekly meals in advance like I see some bodybuilders I follow on instagram do, and buy a little fridge and pay some electric bill so I can have my meals.

PROTEIN
So right now I'm only doing brown rice protein. I have heard of whey, and am okay with using that ( even though it's not vegan, I was originally planning on having 1 day a week for cheat meals with eggs or fish,but decided to go full on). I have muscle milk already ( my stepdads) but I heard that is high in fat, and not good for ladies. What do you suggest? What brands? I've heard of Casin too, but not too sure what that is all about. I;m sort of understanding, I just need some help setting up and understanding protein supplements.

I'd like to be able to gain muscle while still cutting fat out of the picture. I've heard you can do both at the same time, but I've also heard you cant.

I have a background in weightlifting, crossfit, health and fitness, training and all that, so I'm not totally clueless, this is just new ground for me

If needed I can include my workout schedule, and what I do for lower, upper and cardio day if that helps.

Thanks for all the advice!

-Sam

Do you have any idea where your calories/ macros are at? Their are many resources on here to help you figure out what your daily intake should be. Start with the stickies in the nutrition section. You need to eat above your maintenance level in order to put on muscle and will put on a certain amount of fat at the same time. Which is why many on here bulk then cut. You will achieve the results you desire this way and this way only. It takes time. Years even.
All of the protein powders you mentioned have milk in them so they are not vegan.

Incidentally, Vikings ate meat. A lot of it.

Good luck!

[illiniStrive]

So why exactly do you want to go vegan then? It doesn't seem to be a moral issue (since most vegans sound like they want to puke upon seeing a steak, you considered cheat meals, are fine with whey, etc.) Veganism isn't at all healthier than a regular omnivore diet, so I'm assuming it isn't for health reasons.

I'm the furthest thing from vegan, so honestly I have no clue how to approach finding complete sources of protein. But you know... I figure there's a reason vegans are scrawny...

[discdoggie]

Vikings ate meat and fish.

[BleuSam]

Vikings ate meat and fish.

And BEEvon.

I know, I'm Norwegian, I was just messing around

[illiniStrive]

Vikings ate meat and fish.

New avatar?

Niiice

[grace_ou]

You can buy vegan protein powders at any health food store easily. B vitamin deficiency is also common with vegans.

[BEEvon]

You can buy vegan protein powders at any health food store easily. B vitamin deficiency is also common with vegans.

Plantfusion makes a good one with 22 grams of protein per serving.

[jabeth45]

Sunwarrior has a good protein but if you will take whey then that would be my first choice. I am a vegetarian and I have no trouble gaining muscle but I eat tons of eggs. Lentils are high protein but high carb too. I would focus on one at a time or just don't expect fast results.

[discdoggie]

And BEEvon.

I know, I'm Norwegian, I was just messing around

im Norweigan as well! On father's side.

New avatar?

Niiice

I changed it again since you posted!

[BleuSam]

BEEvon, that sounds great! I'm going to take a look at that.
Jabeth- I'm Thinking I am going to focus on the science of bodybuilding first ( since I'm new to it), then when I have that down and have worked at it for a while, I can start to impliment some more vegitarian/vegan ways of eating. I have to walk before I can run
discdoggie- You definitely look norwegian, a very tan norwegian

Thanks for the help!

[MrB1g]

If you absolutely love meat and want to pursue bodybuilding, why the hell are you adopting a vegan diet?

[illiniStrive]

If you absolutely love meat and want to pursue bodybuilding, why the hell are you adopting a vegan diet?

She seems to think a vegan diet is better for health and the environment despite the fact that both of these claims have been proven false again and again.

[BleuSam]

Listen illini this isnt going to start again. You guys already trashed one thread, lets keep this one clean, even though I have the information I need now.

[happyplace]

It's difficult to sympathise and help you unless you actually explain why you purposefully ditched a typical bodybuilder type diet in favour of one which, as you rightly say, does not easily support the biochemical processes required to be an athlete (let alone bodybuilder). It sounds like you picked a fad diet for new year and are having trouble with the fact that it will not give you the appearance you want. There is a good reason that bodybuilders and athletes tend to eat a diet which has a good amount of meat, fish, dairy etc. Not only to support performance but also for general health.

PS ex vegetarian here, for 9 years, so I'm not talking outta my arse.

[Botika]

Do you have any idea where your calories/ macros are at? Their are many resources on here to help you figure out what your daily intake should be. Start with the stickies in the nutrition section. You need to eat above your maintenance level in order to put on muscle and will put on a certain amount of fat at the same time. Which is why many on here bulk then cut. You will achieve the results you desire this way and this way only. It takes time. Years even.
All of the protein powders you mentioned have milk in them so they are not vegan.

What BEEvon said. Calculate your calories based on your goal using the guidelines in this post: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post436716221

Then you need to research vegan foods to meet these requirements. You will need to track what you eat using MyFitnessPal or similar.

Also, do a search on the forum for "vegan". There are lots of threads and I'm sure they will turn up useful info like this....

Protein content of vegan food in 100 grams:

- Soy Protein Isolate natural = 90 grams
- Soy Protein Isolate Flavored = 85 grams
- Pea Protein = 85 grams
- Rice Protein = 76 grams
- Soy-granules = 51 grams
- Brewer's yeast = 48 grams
- Veggie sausages = 27.5 grams
- Peanuts natural = 26 grams
- Sunflower seeds = 24 grams
- almonds = 21 grams
- Pistachios = 21 grams
- Tofu "Sesame / almond" = 19 grams
- Tempeh = 19 grams
- Hazelnut = 15 grams
- Walnut = 15 grams
- Brazil Nuts = 14 grams
- Natural Tofu = 13.5 grams
- Oatmeal = 12.5 grams
- Noodles = 12 grams
- Bread = 10 grams
- Kidney beans cooked = 8 grams
- Rice = 8 grams
- Peas cooked = 5 grams
- Apricots, dried = 5 grams
- Brussels sprouts = 3.5 grams
- Soymilk = 3.3 grams
- Broccoli = 2.8 grams
- Mushrooms = 2.5 grams
- Cauliflower = 2.4 grams
- Baked potato = 2 grams protein

[discdoggie]

discdoggie- You definitely look norwegian, a very tan norwegian

That pic was taken over Labor Day weekend, after a summer of surfing. I am actually pretty fair-skinned. I have never "tanned" in a booth and I am not one to "lay out" and tan myself either.



FWIW, I was strict vegan from 1984 to 1995. What basically turned the tide for me was the internet. The instant availability of info at my fingertips vs. having to haul my ass to the library an do research. All I had were books that had an agenda. Once I could study both sides equally, I found that the best thing for me was animla protein, but locally and humanely raised, fed, and slaughtered.

I was certainly skinny in those days! But animal protein is far superior for building muscle. As far as helping the planet, it is far more imperative to shop and eat locally. That is THE SINGLE most important thing. The fossil fuels it takes to transport all these exotic foods we feel we MUST have 12 months out of the year...that is the biggest and most wasteful carbon footprint.

I always have plenty of wild game and locally raised free range beef and poultry in my freezer.. My dog is raw fed exclusively

[MrB1g]

Listen illini this isnt going to start again. You guys already trashed one thread, lets keep this one clean, even though I have the information I need now.

If someone came on to a running forum saying they wanted to compete in a running race, but they wanted to do it with 1 leg tied up so as to make it a 'challenge' - what's the best advice anyone could give them?

That's right! To stop being an idiot and embrace the most efficient and effective methodology.


Reading a 20 page essay on maximising your results as a vegan bodybuilder wouldn't be as effective as simply eating meat (which we are obviously meant to) and consuming a balanced diet...So why would anyone write anymore than one line saying 'eat meat'?

[BleuSam]

I read alot about being Vegan and it sounded really great, and I felt really great while I was on it, but for my goals, from what I've been reading about bodybuilding (mind you I'm new to this so I don't know all the in's and out's of it, the reason why I asked in the first place) I am thinking I may have to change my diet.

My goal is to do less harm, but seeing what discdoggie said, I think I'm going to try eating locally instead of supporting those big companies that ship/have awful conditions. That way I can still acheive my goals, and not support that kind of farming. I already buy from the farmers market every saturday from local producers.

Also, MrB1g1, the reason I asked is because I DONT KNOW. I'm still learning about this stuff. I saw that it could be done so I thought I would ask about it. A teacher doesn't call his student an Idiot for simply not knowing or being misinformed.

[BleuSam]

It's difficult to sympathise and help you unless you actually explain why you purposefully ditched a typical bodybuilder type diet in favour of one which, as you rightly say, does not easily support the biochemical processes required to be an athlete (let alone bodybuilder). It sounds like you picked a fad diet for new year and are having trouble with the fact that it will not give you the appearance you want. There is a good reason that bodybuilders and athletes tend to eat a diet which has a good amount of meat, fish, dairy etc. Not only to support performance but also for general health.

PS ex vegetarian here, for 9 years, so I'm not talking outta my arse.

I wanted to stop supporting the companies that housed their animals so poorly, and I could not find any producers in my area that treated their animals humanely. Plus I enjoy a challenge and removing my favorite thing from my diet sounded fair enough. I wouldnt do it if there wasnt a healthy alternative, but I'm realizing that it may not be conducive to my goals.
Also, I know what a fad diet is, and I dont think vegan is anything of the sort. People can actually get all their nutrition from a vegan diet as opposed to eating nothing but peanuts for a week straight and losing 60 lbs( what typically qualifies as a fad diet) But you know that already . I saw a few people who were bodybuilders and also vegan, so I wanted to combine my two goals.

[BleuSam]

That pic was taken over Labor Day weekend, after a summer of surfing. I am actually pretty fair-skinned. I have never "tanned" in a booth and I am not one to "lay out" and tan myself either.



FWIW, I was strict vegan from 1984 to 1995. What basically turned the tide for me was the internet. The instant availability of info at my fingertips vs. having to haul my ass to the library an do research. All I had were books that had an agenda. Once I could study both sides equally, I found that the best thing for me was animla protein, but locally and humanely raised, fed, and slaughtered.

I was certainly skinny in those days! But animal protein is far superior for building muscle. As far as helping the planet, it is far more imperative to shop and eat locally. That is THE SINGLE most important thing. The fossil fuels it takes to transport all these exotic foods we feel we MUST have 12 months out of the year...that is the biggest and most wasteful carbon footprint.

I always have plenty of wild game and locally raised free range beef and poultry in my freezer.. My dog is raw fed exclusively

All of this is super helpful! I shop at the local farmers market every Saturday so all my veggies are locally grown, I even got to know a few of the growers and they let me have extra carrots and stuff for juicing I have a hard time finding places that sell grass fed, happy cows and animal meat though. We had a butcher, but he got his stuff from other places shipped in. I'm going to do some more digging because I'm in the heart of Florida, there HAS to be some somewhere. I got some eggs from a guy who has a farm not too far from here so I've been eating those in the meantime I think you just helped me find a happy medium!

See alot of stuff that I read, doesnt really have much info on having a happy balance, it's either all or nothing, so you can understand my mentality coming into this as someone who is learning.

Also, I'm not a deliberate tanner either, as you can see haha, though when I was in football I got scary dark. I actually wear Neutrogena sunscreen before I put on makeup to help with exposure since I'm so fair. I'm thinking about trying out self tanner so when I start getting more definition, it's more visible

Thanks so much for that info. If I could rep, I would.

[discdoggie]

All of this is super helpful! I shop at the local farmers market every Saturday so all my veggies are locally grown, I even got to know a few of the growers and they let me have extra carrots and stuff for juicing I have a hard time finding places that sell grass fed, happy cows and animal meat though. We had a butcher, but he got his stuff from other places shipped in. I'm going to do some more digging because I'm in the heart of Florida, there HAS to be some somewhere. I got some eggs from a guy who has a farm not too far from here so I've been eating those in the meantime I think you just helped me find a happy medium!

See alot of stuff that I read, doesnt really have much info on having a happy balance, it's either all or nothing, so you can understand my mentality coming into this as someone who is learning.

Also, I'm not a deliberate tanner either, as you can see haha, though when I was in football I got scary dark. I actually wear Neutrogena sunscreen before I put on makeup to help with exposure since I'm so fair. I'm thinking about trying out self tanner so when I start getting more definition, it's more visible

Thanks so much for that info. If I could rep, I would.

Where are you in FL? I lived in the gulf (treasure island, pinellas county) for several years.


I had a diary farmer that sold me raw milk, butter, and yogurt. Her eggs were from free range chickens that were only supplemented with (organic) feed---their main diet were insects they scavaged themselves.


I became acquainted with Turkish butcher---we were eating a lot of goat during that time!

[BleuSam]

Where are you in FL? I lived in the gulf (treasure island, pinellas county) for several years.


I had a diary farmer that sold me raw milk, butter, and yogurt. Her eggs were from free range chickens that were only supplemented with (organic) feed---their main diet were insects they scavaged themselves.


I became acquainted with Turkish butcher---we were eating a lot of goat during that time!

That sounds ideal I'm in Orlando Florida, in the outskirts though, about 15 minutes from Disney.

[sgtpeppers]

"She seems to think a vegan diet is better for health and the environment despite the fact that both of these claims have been proven false again and again."

please explain (in PM, don't want derail her thread). I followed the link you posted, but just found claims. I thought it was pretty well known that cattle rearing is terrible for the environment.
fao.org/newsroom/en/news/2006/1000448/index.html (2006)


"I wanted to stop supporting the companies that housed their animals so poorly, and I could not find any producers in my area that treated their animals humanely."
"My goal is to do less harm"

very admirable. I think if is great that you are putting in the effort to be a responsible consumer. None of what you have said has been the holier than thou veganism, which usually turns people off. Nevertheless, people seem to be quite cranky about your dietary aspirations. Interesting.


As for the advice you asked for...

I am not a vegan, but I try to be responsible with my purchases. For protein I like almonds, cashews, beans, chickpeas, brown rice, tempeh, and spinach.

"while still cutting fat out of the picture"- I would not advise this. Fat does not make you fat. I noticed a big difference when I stopped buying 2%, skim, low, whatever ****.

If you want to include dairy, cottage cheese and plain greek yogurt are good for protein.

I'm a beginner too, so I am figuring it out along with you.

[BleuSam]

"She seems to think a vegan diet is better for health and the environment despite the fact that both of these claims have been proven false again and again."

please explain (in PM, don't want derail her thread). I followed the link you posted, but just found claims. I thought it was pretty well known that cattle rearing is terrible for the environment.
fao.org/newsroom/en/news/2006/1000448/index.html (2006)


"I wanted to stop supporting the companies that housed their animals so poorly, and I could not find any producers in my area that treated their animals humanely."
"My goal is to do less harm"

very admirable. I think if is great that you are putting in the effort to be a responsible consumer. None of what you have said has been the holier than thou veganism, which usually turns people off. Nevertheless, people seem to be quite cranky about your dietary aspirations. Interesting.


As for the advice you asked for...

I am not a vegan, but I try to be responsible with my purchases. For protein I like almonds, cashews, beans, chickpeas, brown rice, tempeh, and spinach.

"while still cutting fat out of the picture"- I would not advise this. Fat does not make you fat. I noticed a big difference when I stopped buying 2%, skim, low, whatever ****.

If you want to include dairy, cottage cheese and plain greek yogurt are good for protein.

I'm a beginner too, so I am figuring it out along with you.

Thanks for being considerate I had this same post in another forum, and got threats and was called some nasty names, strange haha. Yeah, I have nothing against meat, and I'm super far from being holier than thou, but I do want my food to be happy and live to it's best potential, it just makes me feel better about eating and spending money on it.
I've had people come up to me at whole foods before and bash me for getting cruelty free dog soap while I was wearing a silk shirt. And my aunt drops by and complains that we are hurting bees by using honey ( we were using sugar before, but she complained about that. We are currently using agave nectar..at least when shes around..lol) Some of it is just really unnecessary and extreme and I don't want to identify with those sorts as much as possible lol. As for cutting out fat, I kind of meant like lowering my body fat percentage so my muscle is more defined. I love me some fats don't you worry Glad you're new to it too I'm making my grocery list as I go through this thread haha. Thanks and good luck!

[happyplace]

I wanted to stop supporting the companies that housed their animals so poorly, and I could not find any producers in my area that treated their animals humanely. Plus I enjoy a challenge and removing my favorite thing from my diet sounded fair enough. I wouldnt do it if there wasnt a healthy alternative, but I'm realizing that it may not be conducive to my goals.
Also, I know what a fad diet is, and I dont think vegan is anything of the sort. People can actually get all their nutrition from a vegan diet as opposed to eating nothing but peanuts for a week straight and losing 60 lbs( what typically qualifies as a fad diet) But you know that already . I saw a few people who were bodybuilders and also vegan, so I wanted to combine my two goals.

That doesn't equate to veganism. If decent meat and fish sources are not available then good for you, I think it's great you give a damn enough to not buy them. However everyone has access to organic dairy produce and free range eggs so your veganism choice is a fad, or at best a poor and unnecessary choice.

[CajunSpecial]

I am not a vegan, but I try to be responsible with my purchases. For protein I like almonds, cashews, beans, chickpeas, brown rice, tempeh, and spinach.


I'm a beginner too, so I am figuring it out along with you.

If you consider brown rice and spinach protein sources, you might want to do some more reading and not offer anymore advice at this time.

[illiniStrive]

"She seems to think a vegan diet is better for health and the environment despite the fact that both of these claims have been proven false again and again."

please explain (in PM, don't want derail her thread). I followed the link you posted, but just found claims. I thought it was pretty well known that cattle rearing is terrible for the environment.
fao.org/newsroom/en/news/2006/1000448/index.html (2006)

You probably didn't follow any of the links I had in that post or you would've found more than "just claims" (those claims, as I said have been proven over and over and over again for people who are willing to looking into non-partisan research--aka Skinny Bitch doesn't count).

And I thought it was pretty well known that aggressive farming spurned by popular vegan foods was also terrible for the environment.

This is not to say that there are not many ethical and environmental problems with the meat industry, but vegans like to pretend that their diet is also exempt from these same problems. Which is far from the truth. Imo, it's just a change of whom and what one exploits.

So it makes no sense to me why a person with a professed love for meat, who claims they want to enter a hobby in which consuming some sort of animal protein is damn near essential to meet their goals, would choose to go vegan considering the benefits of doing so are vastly overblown (and to a large degree fictitious).

Discdoggie I think recommended a great approach (for those who have the resources and can afford it) to eat in a manner that's easier on the environment than most vegan diets (and more diets in general).

[discdoggie]

You probably didn't follow any of the links I had in that post or you would've found more than "just claims" (those claims, as I said have been proven over and over and over again for people who are willing to looking into non-partisan research--aka Skinny Bitch doesn't count).

And I thought it was pretty well known that aggressive farming spurned by popular vegan foods was also terrible for the environment.

This is not to say that there are not many ethical and environmental problems with the meat industry, but vegans like to pretend that their diet is also exempt from these same problems. Which is far from the truth. Imo, it's just a change of whom and what one exploits.

So it makes no sense to me why a person with a professed love for meat, who claims they want to enter a hobby in which consuming some sort of animal protein is damn near essential to meet their goals, would choose to go vegan considering the benefits of doing so are vastly overblown (and to a large degree fictitious).

Discdoggie I think recommended a great approach (for those who have the resources and can afford it) to eat in a manner that's easier on the environment than most vegan diets (and more diets in general).

Exactly.. OP you'll never (ever ever) reach your muscular genetic potential on plant-based protiens.

[discdoggie]

Unless you take steroids. That will trump steak.