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  1. #31
    Registered User jamez123's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 62Wolf View Post
    Not unless he "packed on more muscle mass" since the end of October. I met him out in Vegas and he looked nowhere near Lesnar-fight size. If so, then that'd be a VERY impressive muscle gain in a little over 2 months.......
    you shoulda asked him to eat some carbs and get a pump up for you.. apparently that doubles his size
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  2. #32
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  3. #33
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    Originally Posted by cgc View Post
    Originally Posted by jamez123 View Post
    once you're a known cheater it's a witch hunt to pay extra attention to you? i think not..
    I think so. You have the right to your opinion though.
    I'm very surprised to hear you say this.

    In most non-athletic fields when an employee is disciplined for substance abuse they are more often than not subjected to subsequent tests to ensure their compliance with policy. And these are in fields where a competitive (i.e. employment) advantage generally does not exist. Do you feel that an athletic commission should not utilize the same procedures to ensure compliance that commonly exist for the general population?

    When a company is caught breaking tax laws or SEC regulations do you think it would be a witch hunt to pay closer attention to the actions of these companies for at least some period of time following the incidents? What about violation of environmental policy? What are your feelings about supervised probation?
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  4. #34
    Mod of Patience...lol cgc's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
    I'm very surprised to hear you say this.

    In most non-athletic fields when an employee is disciplined for substance abuse they are more often than not subjected to subsequent tests to ensure their compliance with policy. And these are in fields where a competitive (i.e. employment) advantage generally does not exist. Do you feel that an athletic commission should not utilize the same procedures to ensure compliance that commonly exist for the general population?

    When a company is caught breaking tax laws or SEC regulations do you think it would be a witch hunt to pay closer attention to the actions of these companies for at least some period of time following the incidents? What about violation of environmental policy? What are your feelings about supervised probation?
    If it was just the one drug test and he was popped, I wouldn't have as much of an issue of him being tested a couple of more times after (IF they had set the same precedence with other fighters). But in order for Overeem to get his license to fight Brock, he had to agree to the initial test then two (or was it three) other random drug tests after his license actually expired. Has there been any other fighter who has had to agree to something like that? Legitimate question there, but I don't think so....so they came across as if they were trying to catch him for ANYTHING.

    To me, they came across as if they were conducting a bit of a witch hunt before now (IMO)...if they would have requested additional hoops for him to jump through at this point, it just would have looked ridiculous to me.

    Not asking for anyone to agree with me, just my opinion.
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  5. #35
    Registered User jamez123's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cgc View Post
    But in order for Overeem to get his license to fight Brock, he had to agree to the initial test then two (or was it three) other random drug tests after his license actually expired. Has there been any other fighter who has had to agree to something like that? Legitimate question there, but I don't think so...
    Have any other fighters ran out of a building after being notified they needed to take a random drug test? Did any other fighters flee the country when notified they needed to take a required drug test? Legitimate question there, but I don't think so...
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  6. #36
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    Why does Reem even have to fight Silva? I thought before he was suspended he was in line for a title shot.
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  7. #37
    Mod of Patience...lol cgc's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jamez123 View Post
    Have any other fighters ran out of a building after being notified they needed to take a random drug test? Did any other fighters flee the country when notified they needed to take a required drug test? Legitimate question there, but I don't think so...
    Two sides to every story. I'm just basing my opinion on the facts. I'm not basing my thoughts on what the NSAC said, or what Overeem's side of the story was.
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  8. #38
    Registered User jamez123's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cgc View Post
    Two sides to every story. I'm just basing my opinion on the facts. I'm not basing my thoughts on what the NSAC said, or what Overeem's side of the story was.
    Those are facts. He fled twice when required to take random drug tests. Those are not opinions. An opinion would be that he fled twice because he knew he was going to be caught
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  9. #39
    Mod of Patience...lol cgc's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jamez123 View Post
    Those are facts. He fled twice when required to take random drug tests. Those are not opinions. An opinion would be that he fled twice because he knew he was going to be caught
    There are two accounts of the story. Not going to argue with you about it.
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  10. #40
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    Originally Posted by jamez123 View Post
    Have any other fighters ran out of a building after being notified they needed to take a random drug test? Did any other fighters flee the country when notified they needed to take a required drug test? Legitimate question there, but I don't think so...
    You mean when his mother was hospitalized back in Holland?

    What a cheat; going to see his ill, elderly mother.
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  11. #41
    Registered User jamez123's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cgc View Post
    There are two accounts of the story. Not going to argue with you about it.
    LOL chose to believe whatever floats your boat I suppose. This guy in prison claims he's innocent, we should probably believe him, ya know.. two sides to every story. Lets throw common sense out the window.

    Personally I like Overeem. I like watching him fight. Doesn't mean he's not a very obviously guilty cheat.

    Originally Posted by LAWLER89 View Post
    You mean when his mother was hospitalized back in Holland?

    What a cheat; going to see his ill, elderly mother.
    Yea.. not like there wasn't a pattern going on. Fleeing once, then twice, then finally taking a test and getting popped .. I'm sure the 2nd time he ran was just for his mommy and not guilt.
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  12. #42
    disregard everything PositronLaser's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by legbrah View Post
    think he has enough gas to take on cain?

    verdum said it felt like walking into a brick wall when he tried to take down Overeem
    cant wait for this fight
    Speaking of Werdum, what the hell is going on with him? He hasn't fought in quite a long time.
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  13. #43
    Bro-Lo El Cuñado tudge's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by PositronLaser View Post
    Speaking of Werdum, what the hell is going on with him? He hasn't fought in quite a long time.

    him vs. Big Nog for TUF: Brazil 2.
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  14. #44
    HADOUKEN FIREBALL !!!! Gomi's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jamez123 View Post
    Those are facts. He fled twice when required to take random drug tests. Those are not opinions. An opinion would be that he fled twice because he knew he was going to be caught
    He has passed 5 randoms during his suspension, so they didnt license him for nothing. He was actually bigger at the hearing now then when he got suspended.
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  15. #45
    Registered User jamez123's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Gomi View Post
    He has passed 5 randoms during his suspension, so they didnt license him for nothing. He was actually bigger at the hearing now then when he got suspended.
    Minor correction... 3 of the 5 were sent without any supervision.. from himself. And where's the picture of him at the hearing, looking so big?
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  16. #46
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    Originally Posted by cgc View Post
    To me, they came across as if they were conducting a bit of a witch hunt before now (IMO)

    What makes you say that? Listening to the hearings, the tone was very friendly and amicable toward him. Numerous MMA journalists even commented at being disgusted with the NSAC for it's buddy-buddy type routine. (and not because they thought the NSAC was being two-faced).
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  17. #47
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    Even if he has/is using AAS, so what?

    The whole steroids thing doesn't bother me a bit. It's no different than using supplements or weightlifting IMO. You're taking proactive steps to better yourself. Your opponent has his own choices to make in terms of tactics to employ and what to use to further his abilities. The stuff is available for anyone to use, so there's no financial, race, credence, nationality, or age precedent.

    Some guys don't like to lift heavy; but you don't accuse Ben Henderson of cheating for doing so when he beats Nate's non-lifting ass, do you? Do you accuse GSP of cheating for employing gymnastics to further his dexterity, flexibility, and strength when he beats on Condit? It's just another potential tool, and it doesn't guarantee you a win, or further your skillset. If anything, increased muscle mass has hindered the 'Reem's cardio.
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  18. #48
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    Originally Posted by jamez123 View Post
    Have any other fighters ran out of a building after being notified they needed to take a random drug test? Did any other fighters flee the country when notified they needed to take a required drug test? Legitimate question there, but I don't think so...
    Overeem had apparently bought that ticket two days before that, so maybe steroids give you the ability to time travel. Plus overeem submitted a sample anyway
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    Originally Posted by LAWLER89 View Post
    Even if he has/is using AAS, so what?

    The whole steroids thing doesn't bother me a bit. It's no different than using supplements or weightlifting IMO. You're taking proactive steps to better yourself. Your opponent has his own choices to make in terms of tactics to employ and what to use to further his abilities. The stuff is available for anyone to use, so there's no financial, race, credence, nationality, or age precedent.

    Some guys don't like to lift heavy; but you don't accuse Ben Henderson of cheating for doing so when he beats Nate's non-lifting ass, do you? Do you accuse GSP of cheating for employing gymnastics to further his dexterity, flexibility, and strength when he beats on Condit? It's just another potential tool, and it doesn't guarantee you a win, or further your skillset. If anything, increased muscle mass has hindered the 'Reem's cardio.
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    Originally Posted by LAWLER89 View Post
    Even if he has/is using AAS, so what?

    The whole steroids thing doesn't bother me a bit. It's no different than using supplements or weightlifting IMO. You're taking proactive steps to better yourself. Your opponent has his own choices to make in terms of tactics to employ and what to use to further his abilities. The stuff is available for anyone to use, so there's no financial, race, credence, nationality, or age precedent.

    Some guys don't like to lift heavy; but you don't accuse Ben Henderson of cheating for doing so when he beats Nate's non-lifting ass, do you? Do you accuse GSP of cheating for employing gymnastics to further his dexterity, flexibility, and strength when he beats on Condit? It's just another potential tool, and it doesn't guarantee you a win, or further your skillset. If anything, increased muscle mass has hindered the 'Reem's cardio.
    The most annoying thing to me is how naive some peoplev are about steroids in pro sports. A huge majority if pro fighters are on steroids. But people only care about overeem, no one else takes as much **** as him. Not even close. "reem is a cheater" well hes fighting a guy on roids too so its all fair.
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    The NSAC people are such pieces of s**t. They full talk to him in a condescending manner. Even that blonde ganga. Think they are above everyone else. Disgusts me.
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    Originally Posted by LAWLER89 View Post
    Even if he has/is using AAS, so what?

    The whole steroids thing doesn't bother me a bit. It's no different than using supplements or weightlifting IMO. You're taking proactive steps to better yourself. Your opponent has his own choices to make in terms of tactics to employ and what to use to further his abilities. The stuff is available for anyone to use, so there's no financial, race, credence, nationality, or age precedent.

    Some guys don't like to lift heavy; but you don't accuse Ben Henderson of cheating for doing so when he beats Nate's non-lifting ass, do you? Do you accuse GSP of cheating for employing gymnastics to further his dexterity, flexibility, and strength when he beats on Condit? It's just another potential tool, and it doesn't guarantee you a win, or further your skillset. If anything, increased muscle mass has hindered the 'Reem's cardio.
    agree 100%
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    Originally Posted by jamez123 View Post
    Minor correction... 3 of the 5 were sent without any supervision.. from himself. And where's the picture of him at the hearing, looking so big?
    I don't know about a pic but it was stated that he was up to 263 from 256 when he fought lesnar. Its just what I read from the bleacher report if I remember right.
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    Originally Posted by LAWLER89 View Post
    Even if he has/is using AAS, so what?

    The whole steroids thing doesn't bother me a bit. It's no different than using supplements or weightlifting IMO. You're taking proactive steps to better yourself. Your opponent has his own choices to make in terms of tactics to employ and what to use to further his abilities. The stuff is available for anyone to use, so there's no financial, race, credence, nationality, or age precedent.

    Some guys don't like to lift heavy; but you don't accuse Ben Henderson of cheating for doing so when he beats Nate's non-lifting ass, do you? Do you accuse GSP of cheating for employing gymnastics to further his dexterity, flexibility, and strength when he beats on Condit? It's just another potential tool, and it doesn't guarantee you a win, or further your skillset. If anything, increased muscle mass has hindered the 'Reem's cardio.
    that's something a weak argument, considering almost nothing guarantees a win.

    imo, the issue really boils down to whether or not aas usage gives someone an unfair advantage. I'm not sure there's a decisive argument on that point. you point out that access isn't a major hurdle for anybody, so it boils down to whether guys elect to use them or not, which does make it somewhat analogous to whether or not guys elect to weight-train, train certain techniques, or do gymnastics. on the other hand, that's all technique/actual training stuff (yes you have to actually train extremely harder, if not harder, to maximize the boost drugs give you), though not all supplements are created equal. it does seem like people want to draw the line at things that are athletes training/working to improve their skillset and abilities vs. using products that further enhance their ability to push beyond their natural/genetic limits so that certain things/attributes become more improvable through training. But I'm not sure if there's really a great argument to defend that distinction being so important--as the most intuitive one seems to prioritizing the value working hard or whatever over chemical enhancement--but, of course, someone's natural aptitudes is much more a matter of luck than merit.

    (as a sidebar: I'm not sure steroids have really hindered Overeem's cardio very much, since he never had that great a gas-tank at LHW either. There's almost certainly some trade-off, but once someone hits a high level that's bound to happen.
    Last edited by RoccoTanno123; 01-10-2013 at 01:07 AM.
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    God save our gracious Reem,
    Long live our noble Reem,
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    Originally Posted by LAWLER89 View Post
    You mean when his mother was hospitalized back in Holland?

    What a cheat; going to see his ill, elderly mother.
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    Originally Posted by cgc View Post
    If it was just the one drug test and he was popped, I wouldn't have as much of an issue of him being tested a couple of more times after (IF they had set the same precedence with other fighters). But in order for Overeem to get his license to fight Brock, he had to agree to the initial test then two (or was it three) other random drug tests after his license actually expired. Has there been any other fighter who has had to agree to something like that? Legitimate question there, but I don't think so....so they came across as if they were trying to catch him for ANYTHING.

    To me, they came across as if they were conducting a bit of a witch hunt before now (IMO)...if they would have requested additional hoops for him to jump through at this point, it just would have looked ridiculous to me.

    Not asking for anyone to agree with me, just my opinion.
    Correct me if I'm wrong but the reason for those stipulations was because he left the country when he was supposed to do his test (he said because his mother was ill which is fine with me) and then tried to submit a sample done by his own doctor in europe which could not be accepted. They were like "ok thats a bit fishy" so in order to let him fight they made his testing a little more strict.

    If I remember that correctly then I dont see anything wrong with the testing they put him through and he was lucky he got licensed to fight brock at all. Some other fighters may have been denied.
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    Originally Posted by LAWLER89 View Post
    Even if he has/is using AAS, so what?

    The whole steroids thing doesn't bother me a bit. It's no different than using supplements or weightlifting IMO. You're taking proactive steps to better yourself. Your opponent has his own choices to make in terms of tactics to employ and what to use to further his abilities. The stuff is available for anyone to use, so there's no financial, race, credence, nationality, or age precedent.

    Some guys don't like to lift heavy; but you don't accuse Ben Henderson of cheating for doing so when he beats Nate's non-lifting ass, do you? Do you accuse GSP of cheating for employing gymnastics to further his dexterity, flexibility, and strength when he beats on Condit? It's just another potential tool, and it doesn't guarantee you a win, or further your skillset. If anything, increased muscle mass has hindered the 'Reem's cardio.
    This is the dumbest argument I have ever heard. You might be retarded.
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  29. #59
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    Originally Posted by jamez123 View Post
    LOL chose to believe whatever floats your boat I suppose. This guy in prison claims he's innocent, we should probably believe him, ya know.. two sides to every story. Lets throw common sense out the window.

    Personally I like Overeem. I like watching him fight. Doesn't mean he's not a very obviously guilty cheat.
    You're trying to pull an argument out of me that just isn't there, man.

    I didn't say I believed Overeem 100% nor did I say I say I bought the AC's story 100%. Common sense would say that there is probably a story somewhere in between the two where the truth resides.

    Just like your guy in prison claiming he's innocent, how many gov officials are running around free who are bigger criminals?

    Again, two sides.

    Originally Posted by RoccoTanno123 View Post
    What makes you say that? Listening to the hearings, the tone was very friendly and amicable toward him. Numerous MMA journalists even commented at being disgusted with the NSAC for it's buddy-buddy type routine. (and not because they thought the NSAC was being two-faced).
    Some of the biggest knives I've had stuck in my back were from some of the nicest people I've met....call me jaded.

    Originally Posted by battousai216 View Post
    Overeem had apparently bought that ticket two days before that, so maybe steroids give you the ability to time travel. Plus overeem submitted a sample anyway
    Interesting.
    Last edited by cgc; 01-10-2013 at 06:04 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Casshern View Post
    Wait, do you believe Reem did not use roids?
    Originally Posted by LAWLER89 View Post
    I don't like to presume on things of that nature without empirical evidence.
    So Overeem pleading guilty to the charges at the hearing and then having his doctor explain exactly how he administered the illegal PED to AO is not enough evidence for you? lol.
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