View Poll Results: Which is better for improving vertical jump?

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  • Heavy partials ( to parallel or higher)

    2 13.33%
  • Full range of motion

    13 86.67%
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  1. #1
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    Question Which is better for vertical jump - heavy partials or lighter weight deepest ROM?

    Which is better for improving vertical jump , heavier partial squats to parallel or above, or going DEEP full ROM ( range of motion) ass to grass with lighter weight?
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    Deep / full heavy ROMs.
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    Originally Posted by illriginalized View Post
    Deep / full heavy ROMs.
    Have you ever heard of heavy partials for improving vertical? How about front squat vs back squat?
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    Originally Posted by JBenuzzi View Post
    Have you ever heard of heavy partials for improving vertical? How about front squat vs back squat?
    Don't believe in partial reps. Don't think it makes a difference front vs back. But front squats are more challenging
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    Originally Posted by illriginalized View Post
    Don't believe in partial reps. Don't think it makes a difference front vs back. But front squats are more challenging
    that's why I choose to do front squats. I don't believe in partial reps for building muscle. However, I believe they are a great tool for building strength and power.
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    Originally Posted by JBenuzzi View Post
    Have you ever heard of heavy partials for improving vertical? How about front squat vs back squat?
    I've actually heard of this. Maybe do some box squats? I would do both front and back squats, but for an athlete, front squats are superior, imo.
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    Originally Posted by jbeastin View Post
    I've actually heard of this. Maybe do some box squats? I would do both front and back squats, but for an athlete, front squats are superior, imo.
    I have too. I've never seen anyone do FRONT box squats, imagine that LOL. Elliot hulse says front squats are better for athletes for a number of reasons, like better upper back development, and better hormonal affects because the weight is distributed forward.
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    Originally Posted by JBenuzzi View Post
    I have too. I've never seen anyone do FRONT box squats, imagine that LOL. Elliot hulse says front squats are better for athletes for a number of reasons, like better upper back development, and better hormonal affects because the weight is distributed forward.
    Not sure I understand that part. Wut?

    I'd figure back squats would be better because you could go significantly heavier, eliciting a greater CNS and hormonal response.

    Why not include some banded movements or powercleans? That'd give you some good opportunity to develop that hip snap you're looking for.
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    Originally Posted by swolepatrole View Post
    Not sure I understand that part. Wut?

    I'd figure back squats would be better because you could go significantly heavier, eliciting a greater CNS and hormonal response.

    Why not include some banded movements or powercleans? That'd give you some good opportunity to develop that hip snap you're looking for.
    When the weight is distributed in front of you, there is a better hormonal response than if it were to be distributed on your back.

    I do a lot of powercleans right now. But I had a 36 inch vertical before I even started developing them. Banded movement is a must try after I better develop my DEEP front squat.

    Today I did full cleans for the first time and I did 140x4 and 145x3. But I went ass to grass, literally my butt was about a half inch from touching the ground. To the point where it almost took some pressure off of my muscles because my arms were resting on my knees. I have great flexibility like not many other people have. I have never seen anyone front squat as low as I.

    As great as this sounds, it's no excuse to be lifting this light compared to my other lifts. I'm incorporating them into my routine immediately so I can be more balanced and develop the ability to clean more by being able to get under the bar. Right now I can clean 180lbs @ 150lbs bodyweight.
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    Originally Posted by JBenuzzi View Post
    When the weight is distributed in front of you, there is a better hormonal response than if it were to be distributed on your back..
    Yes, you've already implied that. Where'd you find the science that led to this conclusion?
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    Originally Posted by swolepatrole View Post
    Yes, you've already implied that. Where'd you find the science that led to this conclusion?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEwzyHeAlos
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    Originally Posted by JBenuzzi View Post
    Be careful taking any advice from this guy (and any other guys on youtube). He spends 12 minutes to answer a 30 second questions by throwing out medical terms that he finds on google. Hyperlordosis is not the result of back squatting, it is the result of sedentary lifestyle (tight hip flexors, weak abs, weak glutes). Ask yourself, "why does he spend all day making youtube videos for kids when the leaders in the S&C field are training athletes, writing books, and doing presentations?"

    With that being said front squats are great and every athlete should do them.
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    Originally Posted by jonmd123 View Post
    Be careful taking any advice from this guy (and any other guys on youtube). He spends 12 minutes to answer a 30 second questions by throwing out medical terms that he finds on google. Hyperlordosis is not the result of back squatting, it is the result of sedentary lifestyle (tight hip flexors, weak abs, weak glutes). Ask yourself, "why does he spend all day making youtube videos for kids when the leaders in the S&C field are training athletes, writing books, and doing presentations?"

    With that being said front squats are great and every athlete should do them.
    Inteersting, but he does train athletes, write books, and do presentations all over the USA? he does do all that my friend. He is very knowledgeable. I give him credit over any other so called fitness guru on youtube. He's never steered me wrong.

    I agree. I noticed I can front squat a lot deeper than most people
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    Originally Posted by JBenuzzi View Post
    Inteersting, but he does train athletes, write books, and do presentations all over the USA? he does do all that my friend. He is very knowledgeable. I give him credit over any other so called fitness guru on youtube. He's never steered me wrong.

    I agree. I noticed I can front squat a lot deeper than most people
    What athletes does he train? What does he write? Where does he do presentations? He may do a small amount of this but at the end of the day he is a youtube guy. Look up guys like Mike Boyle, Eric Cressey, Gray Cook. These are the type of guys I was referring to. Guys that train tons of pro athletes and do presentations every weekend.

    I'm not saying he doesn't know what he is talking about. I agree with what he says; front squats are better for athletes. They recruit more of the body than back squats, so this probably does result in a greater hormone responds (I have no research to back this up though).

    Just don't take his word as gospel because he has no track record.
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    Originally Posted by jonmd123 View Post
    What athletes does he train? What does he write? Where does he do presentations? He may do a small amount of this but at the end of the day he is a youtube guy. Look up guys like Mike Boyle, Eric Cressey, Gray Cook. These are the type of guys I was referring to. Guys that train tons of pro athletes and do presentations every weekend.

    I'm not saying he doesn't know what he is talking about. I agree with what he says; front squats are better for athletes. They recruit more of the body than back squats, so this probably does result in a greater hormone responds (I have no research to back this up though).

    Just don't take his word as gospel because he has no track record.
    I feel you on that. There are a few things that he says that I have disagreed with.

    So what does the front squat recruit that makes it better than the back squat? I've just noticed I can't do as much weight.

    I feel that when I do front squats the bar is centered more above my legs in a way that I feel would be more productive at increasing vertical jump.
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    Originally Posted by JBenuzzi View Post
    I feel you on that. There are a few things that he says that I have disagreed with.

    So what does the front squat recruit that makes it better than the back squat? I've just noticed I can't do as much weight.

    I feel that when I do front squats the bar is centered more above my legs in a way that I feel would be more productive at increasing vertical jump.

    Shoulder flexors and t-spine extensors are two, but the greatest benefit I see with the front squat vs the back squat is the 'core' activation. It prevents the athlete from anteriorly shifting their pelvis for stability and really cause all the muscles of the hip, lower back, and abs to work together for stability.
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    Both variations will transfer over to vertical jump. Stronger hip, knee, ankle extensors... Better vertical (in theory). If you plan on advancing to Olympic lifts, front squat is the first exercise you should master. As for difference between the two, you have to look at the bio mechanics of each version.

    "In the back squat, a more forward inclination of the trunk brings the weight horizontally closer to the knees, thus reducing the resistive tongue about the knees that the quadriceps must counteract. At the same time, the weight is horizontally farther from the hip, increasing the resistive torque about the hip that the gluteus and hamstrings must counteract" NSCA-CSCS Study materials.

    Front squat = more upright positioning of spine = more Knee extensors activation
    Back squat = Forward lean (usually) = More Hip extensors activation

    Depth of squat can come down to many different factors.. Hip strength, core strength, but usually depends on ankle flexibility. Greater range of Dorsiflexion usually helps to achieve a deeper squat.

    I personally prefer single leg variations of squats.
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    Originally Posted by CAC758 View Post
    Both variations will transfer over to vertical jump. Stronger hip, knee, ankle extensors... Better vertical (in theory). If you plan on advancing to Olympic lifts, front squat is the first exercise you should master. As for difference between the two, you have to look at the bio mechanics of each version.

    "In the back squat, a more forward inclination of the trunk brings the weight horizontally closer to the knees, thus reducing the resistive tongue about the knees that the quadriceps must counteract. At the same time, the weight is horizontally farther from the hip, increasing the resistive torque about the hip that the gluteus and hamstrings must counteract" NSCA-CSCS Study materials.

    Front squat = more upright positioning of spine = more Knee extensors activation
    Back squat = Forward lean (usually) = More Hip extensors activation

    Depth of squat can come down to many different factors.. Hip strength, core strength, but usually depends on ankle flexibility. Greater range of Dorsiflexion usually helps to achieve a deeper squat.

    I personally prefer single leg variations of squats.
    I can do about 20 single leg squats, all the way to the ground, and back up. i've been practicing them with weight recently actually.
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    Originally Posted by JBenuzzi View Post
    I can do about 20 single leg squats, all the way to the ground, and back up. i've been practicing them with weight recently actually.
    i found Pistol Squats & One Leg Box Squats great for Vertical Jump
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    Try doing DB Bulgarian squats exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/DBSingleLegSplitSquat. And make sure that when your doing your single leg squats, that your sitting back, knees aren't going over your toes, and press down and back through your heel to help activate your glutes. Any kind of weighted step ups, Box Blasts exrx.net/Plyometrics/BoxJumpMarch or weighted jumps should help out.
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    Read an article recently advocating jump squats.
    opinions??
    ----------start -------------- current

    squat---135x5----------------265x5
    bench---135x1---------------230x1, 195x5
    dead----155x5---------------325x1, 305x5
    military-70x5----------------130x5
    chins----BWx8--------------+70x2
    dips-----BWx14------------ +80x5
    BOR -----115x5--------------205x3
    db row---55x8---------------100x7
    inc DB press------45x5------80x3, 75x7
    seated DB press--35x5------60x4
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    Originally Posted by JBenuzzi View Post
    Which is better for improving vertical jump , heavier partial squats to parallel or above, or going DEEP full ROM ( range of motion) ass to grass with lighter weight?
    Partials are never going to help you develop your full strength potential. Given that vertical jump is merely a performance marker for a specific athletic activity, you should be more concerned about training for the activity than training for the performance marker.

    And in reality, while you should be training through a full ROM for all exercises, it's not necessarily the strength gains from deep squats that is going to improve your performance at a vertical jump. General strength training like this needs to be matched with some form of plyometric training program, otherwise you're only maximizing your strength gains. Power is derived from a combination of speed and strength, and your speed development is going to be based upon plyometric/olympic-lift training.
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    it must be obvious day on camp stupid

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