Use both, starting with PVC.
More helpful hints to throw at you:
A good weightlifting technician has the ability to make each lift look identical. In other words, how you MOVE with an empty bar must be the same as how you move with 50% of your max or 100% of your max. You will understand this soon enough. But for now, focus on 3 things: Speed, Precision and Perfection of Movement.
Also, when you use the PVC pipe you will realize you will have some awkwardness racking it in the receive position. This is normal feeling. The PVC pipe is so light that the weight of it is not enough to allow you to rest it on your delts. So when you rack it and there is an air gap between pipe and shoulders, don’t sweat it. Focus on hips, hips, hips.
And when you use the empty bar, you will then realize it’s easier to rack it because the added weight will allow you to easily rest the bar on your delts.
And again, don’t think too much. Just do it.
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Thread: Christina's log
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02-08-2013, 07:46 AM #91This above all..
To thine ownself be true..
And it must follow, as the night the day..
Thou can'st not then be false to any man..
-----------------------------------------------
Bros, my Weightlifters and Powerlifters are my credentials.
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02-09-2013, 12:29 PM #92
Ok, so today was good- squats, pullups, bench, practiced hang power cleans, and deadlifts. I'm getting my starting strength weights dialed in; one more personal trainer session Monday, and I'll officially start on Wed.
Took my phone to film the cleans to check form as I'm very much still learning, and decided to film the other stuff as well, but didn't film the deads as the space was too public. And as for deads, my new gym has bumper plates so I am very, very happy.
Squats:
1. warm up with bar, x10
2. 65# x5
3. 95# x5
3. 115# x5 this didn't feel too hard, so I jumped to 125
4. 125# x4 (so, that was too big of a jump)
5. 115# x5
I filmed the 4th and 5th attempt- I think I'll start at 115# and focus on going as deep as possible. Here's the 125 where I faltered:
and here's the last set when I went back down to 115#
Then, I decided to try negatives on the pullups to wean myself off the assisted ones. I sort of surprised myself as I got a couple! I wasn't filming it as I wasn't expecting that, but I did get my second and third tries- I seem to be at 2.5 right now- but I'll take it
my third try, from behind:
Next week I will have at least 3 good ones!!!
Next came bench press. Last weekend I did 3x5 at 70# so I did 71 today with my little microplates. I think my form is ok, but I know people jack their elbows and shoulders on this lift so if anyone sees anything amiss I'd like to know. Did 3 sets of 5 and filmed the 2nd and 3rd set. This is such a hard lift for me- if it even goes up a half pound at time I'll be happy.
set 2
and set 3- I know one of my arms dropped a bit:
And, now, the hang power cleans. Thanks again to Joel for being so helpful with the tips and feedback! I know these are still rough, and what I'm struggling the most with is whipping my elbows up, and just being fast/explosive in general. I also think I tend to lean too far back. I have a hip flexor issue but these didn't exacerbate it in the least, despite the fact that I extended them pretty explosively. The weight felt ok.
And almost forgot about deads: Did a set of 5 at 95#, and another set of 5 at 115#. So, so happy to have bumper plates- I'm getting my form dialed in and I felt the work in my glutes more than I have previously. This is another lift that doesn't come as naturally to me. Planning to add another 5 or 10 pounds next time as these felt solid.
So, all in all this was a beast mode day, lol. I'm going to keep plugging away at the clean form and hopefully get to where I can do the actual power cleans in my SS program. Joel, you rock and thank you! And thanks to my patient cinematographer-boyfriend todayMy training journal: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=150928103
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02-09-2013, 01:45 PM #93
- Join Date: May 2011
- Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
- Age: 59
- Posts: 2,935
- Rep Power: 2965
Great workout! You are off to a terrific start. The bench I would recommend trying a powerlifting form instead of a bb as it puts a lot less stress on the shoulders but that is just personal opinion as I have injured both my shoulders benching bb style = elbows out.
"We all have great inner power. The power is self-faith. There's really an attitude to winning. You have to see yourself winning before you win. And you have to be hungry. You have to conquer."
- Arnold Schwarzenegger
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02-09-2013, 03:58 PM #94
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02-09-2013, 04:36 PM #95
Very nice! You're going to blossom on Starting Strength, I can tell (is that weird wording? Whatever).
I feel you with the bench press, my increases are painfully slow, especially compared to my lower body lifts.
Also, congrats on the pull ups! I'm quite jealous46kg snatch | 62kg c&j
205lb bsqt | 171lb fsqt
What is bench.
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02-09-2013, 05:33 PM #96
- Join Date: May 2011
- Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
- Age: 59
- Posts: 2,935
- Rep Power: 2965
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02-09-2013, 05:47 PM #97
Considering you're new to the classic lifts, I thought you did a great job! I was not expecting perfection, and I think you are off to a great start. In fact, your technique is way better than mine when I first started a couple of years ago. If you don't believe me, here is before and after vid of this dork:
Remember when I said the flow of information must be just right? Kinda like an army going into a "Theater of Operation." If an army brings too much supplies, they will overwhelm themselves; if they don't bring enough, the enemy will overwhelm them. The same is true in the private sector regarding levels of inventory and raw materials. The same principles apply to coaching.
It's time to spoon-feed you with more meaningful info.
THE PHYSICS BEHIND DA FIZEEK
A. Why you must go from hip-width to shoulder-width position.
You are 5'7" tall. Your "Center of Gravity" (CoG) is basically inside your belly button. Imagine a tiny silver ball the size of of a match head. That symbolic ball is your CoG, which is inside your stomach at belly button height. When your feet are hip-width, you are shorter than 5'7", and your CoG also drops. When your feet are shoulder-width, you are even shorter along with your CoG.
As a general rule of Physics, when you want to accelerate something upward (i.e. hip extension 2nd pull) you want your CoG to be relatively high. The higher you are, the higher the bar will go. On the other hand, you want your CoG to be lower in the catch phase (i.e. pull under 3rd pull) . The lower your CoG in the catch phase, the faster you will be able to rack the bar. So it's important to shuffle your feet properly from this standpoint.
Pulling = CoG high
Catching = CoG Low
Moreover, another reason for correct shuffling is physiological in nature. Try this experiment: jump three times without thinking much of it. The third time you jump and land, pause and look at your feet. Guess what? They are hip-width. I don't like the cue "jump", but your pull position is in fact very similar to a jump position. Also, why you want your feet shoulder-width is because when you receive the bar you are essentially in the squat position. Try squatting with hip-width
stance and it will be unnatural.
There are exceptions to the rule, like anything else. There are weightlifters out there who have the same shoulder-width stance for their pull and recieve positions. But as a general rule, pull position is hip, receive is shoulder.
B. Why you must use hook grip.
Remember when I said relax your arms as if they are rope? When you use a standard grip like you would on benchpress, your forearms are gonna be tense. When you use hook grip, your forearms will relax more. It has something to do with thumb position in relation to forearm. Also, using hook grip will ensure the bar will be secured when doing an explosive lift like the cleans. You don't want the bar to fly off your hands and whack the smelly dude on the treadmill in the head.
It will be uncomfortable at first. You will get used to it. You're a vet. You're tough. You work with vicious animals like crocodiles and king cobras.
C. Why you must rotate your elbows sideways.
If your elbows are pointed to the rear, there is a very good chance you will end up reverse curling the bar. If your elbows point sideways, it will be easier to keep bar close to you as you rack it.
D. Pull = Drive
Pull position, clean pulls, snatch pulls, panda pulls, high pulls, etc... There are lots of terminologies in the sport that use the term "pull." Not sure why. But in reality, You're not really pulling; you are violently driving your heels into the ground when you pop your hips. This physical action is what accelerates the bar upward. So when I say "pull", it's really "drive heels into ground." There are exceptions when you will be truly pulling, but I will explain when the time comes.
Correct flow of information, remember?
E. Defeat Gravity
Gravity is your enemy. Speed and power are your friends. In reality, the goal of Oly is NOT to accelerate the bar as high as possible. The goal is to accelerate the bar HIGH ENOUGH so that you have enough time to drop down to reposition yourself as you catch the bar.
When you pop your hips, the force generated will accelerate the bar upward. You already know this. From a physics standpoint, as the bar goes up it also decelerates. At the top of its maximum height, the volocity of the bar will be zero for a brief moment. Then gravity, YOUR NEMESIS, will start to pull the bar back to mother earth at a rate of 9.82 meters per seconds squared.
Here is the good news: You can actually move faster than gravity can pull an object (like a bar)! But your body right now does not realize it yet..
That is the reason why I gave the cue "pop and drop". As you pop your hips the bar will go up, up, up.. As this is happening your body must already be dropping down, down, down because before the bar reaches velocity zero, you want to be in the catch position ready to receive the bar on its way down. Bar goes up, as you come down.
Watch slow motion. You will notice after I pop my hips that the bar is still going up, while I 'm already on my way down.
(Note: The background music is Pavarotti. You can adjust volume to your preference.)
Digest these points and before I give feedback shortly.Last edited by NorwichGrad; 02-09-2013 at 05:57 PM.
This above all..
To thine ownself be true..
And it must follow, as the night the day..
Thou can'st not then be false to any man..
-----------------------------------------------
Bros, my Weightlifters and Powerlifters are my credentials.
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02-09-2013, 06:43 PM #98
Now for the feedback. You’re doing lots of great things. When coaching beginners, the first thing I look at is the hip pop. This is 80% of the lifts. Your hip pop is great. I can see that the force is going through your heels. You are driving heels into ground. Nice work.
Just some minor adjustments you have to do, and you are well on your way to awesomeness. Now for opportunities for improvement:
a) Hip retraction. Your hip pop is good, but make sure you rebend your knees when you catch the bar. There were a couple of reps where your knees were straight.
b) More hips comment. When you receive the bar, make sure you engage your hips more by sticking your glutes backward. There were some reps where your hips were forward, as if you were leaning back.
c) Feet. Make sure you go from hip to shoulder-width stance.
d) Elbows outward. There were a couple of reps where you reverse curled the bar due to the elbows pointing backward.
e) More elbows. When you rack bar, use the cue “elbows high and flip”. Watch the previous vid I uploaded on muscle cleans. After you pop your hips, you want to tug your elbows upward and then whip, all in one motion. This will allow you to keep bar close to you.
e) Bar from knees. When you bring bar to your knees, make sure your shins are vertical. At this position, bring your knees back a little more so that your shoulders are forward of the bar and NOT on top of it.. (I will explain in future why.)
f) Rep scheme. I understand why you did 10 or so reps. No problem. Moving forward, make sure you do no more than 5 reps per sets. Anything above 5 is not good.
g) Breathing aka “set core.” Before each lift I’d like you to get in the habit of setting your core. Take a gulp of air and push air into your stomach. Hold it there until after each lift. If you watch my vids, I open my mouth because I take air it. I keep my mouth open because I also want to tighten my neck muscles. YOU DO NOT NEED to open your mouth. Just make sure you set core.
I’d like you to do the following next time you practice. Do a mental checklist before each execution..
A) Checklist from the hang position, make sure:
Feet hip width
Shoulder down and back, big chest back flat
Arms and traps relax
Hook grip
Looking straight
Elbows sideways
Before bending your knees and brining bar to your knees, set your core, then slide bar down your knees.
B) When the bar is on your knees, more checklist:
Shoulders forward of the bar
Shins vertical
C) From this position, you are a PEARL. Patiently bring bar back to launch point and BAM! You’re a DRAGON. PAUSE after you catch each bar and do another mental checklist.
D) Checklist after catching bar. Make sure you pause and make necessary adjustment while you are in the receive position.
Elbows high.
Feet shoulder-width
Hips back
For your next practice, can you upload a couple of vids of 3-5 reps at 45-lbs, 47.5-lbs, and 50-lbs?
Don't let my feedback overwhelm you. They are pretty minor. One step at a time.
"Continuous improvement is better than delayed perfection." Mark TwainThis above all..
To thine ownself be true..
And it must follow, as the night the day..
Thou can'st not then be false to any man..
-----------------------------------------------
Bros, my Weightlifters and Powerlifters are my credentials.
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02-09-2013, 06:50 PM #99
HELPFUL HINTS
a) I noticed that there were mirrors in your gym. If you can avoid looking at a mirror, that would be great for you. You don't want to ever see yourself in front of a mirror when doing the Oly. The brain is goofy. When you see yourself, your brain will start to 'think.' Which is a no no. Feel yourself do the lift, and NOT see yourself.
b) Audible Cue
When you feet are slammed sideways to receive the bar, that is also the same time you should have the bar racked. In other words, after you hear your feet 'stomp' sideways, the bar should already be resting on your delts with your elbows high. This 'drumbeat' will help you with your elbow whip..
c) Hang Power Clean Tempo Mental Cue:
o Control first pull from knee to launch point (PEARL)
o Explosive second pull (DRAGON)
o Blindingly fast third pull (DRAGON)This above all..
To thine ownself be true..
And it must follow, as the night the day..
Thou can'st not then be false to any man..
-----------------------------------------------
Bros, my Weightlifters and Powerlifters are my credentials.
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02-09-2013, 08:05 PM #100
Thank you so much And I'm jealous of your deadlifts!
Thanks- I like that guy's videos. I'll try it his way next time and see how it goes.
Thank you! There is a lot to digest here- I'll read this several times before my next try I'm sure. Really appreciate the feedback and I will put it to good use, though it will probably take me several attempts to get it all integrated. The slow motion video with Pavarotti was very fun to watchMy training journal: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=150928103
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02-09-2013, 08:22 PM #101
I have quite a few bench videos in my journal that are specifically for power lifting. It is much easier on the shoulders and your triceps take up most of the work. It's quite a bit different than what you used to, but it will allow you to push more weight when you get used to it.
By the way, the videos are awesome!! You squat technique is freaking perfect!-!!!---!!!- No Excuses Homemade Equipment Crew #12 -!!!---!!!- Hardnheavy2011
Best competition lifts: RAW with wraps
Squat- 623@202 611@198
Bench- 374@203 429@222
Deadlift- 601@203 639@228 660@220 (gym)
Total- 1603@222 1554@202
My Journal: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=146556533
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02-09-2013, 08:45 PM #102
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02-09-2013, 08:47 PM #103
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02-10-2013, 01:46 AM #104
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02-10-2013, 04:29 AM #105
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02-10-2013, 09:47 AM #106
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02-10-2013, 09:51 AM #107
I wonder if I can get to 100# by the end of the year? Sounds very far away right now...
Thank you- will do front squats with my next hang clean attempt.
Thanks so much- I feel like a bit of an exhibitionist with the videos, but I like it when other people post them, plus it helps me to see what I'm doing and to get feedback from others. Hoping by the end of the year I can make some real progress on these lifts.My training journal: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=150928103
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02-10-2013, 10:05 AM #108
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02-10-2013, 03:05 PM #109
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02-10-2013, 06:16 PM #110
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02-10-2013, 06:25 PM #111
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02-11-2013, 03:55 AM #112
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02-11-2013, 08:00 AM #113
Sweet! I have my little microplates, and assuming I did SS for the year (I figure I'll have to switch programs before then, but still for the sake of argument)- if I add half a pound every 5 days when I bench that should get me in the neighborhood. We'll see if my body agrees with my plan. I'm going to check out the vids in your journal later today. I watched the video vanguard posted for me and I'm seeing more of a back arch and elbows closer to the body- is that the main difference?
Thank you! You know I'm always scoping out your journal for the inspiration Glad you are here.My training journal: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=150928103
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02-11-2013, 09:31 AM #114
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02-11-2013, 12:31 PM #115
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02-11-2013, 01:09 PM #116
Today was my last personal trainer session. Ive been working with him twice a week since August 1st, so it was sad saying goodbye even though I'm so ready for starting strength.
I have a sheet with my weights, measurements, and bf measurements during my time there. Of course I know calipers are imperfect, but it's what I have, and they should still be good for trends.
When I started Aug 1st- very out of shape, referred by my dr (along with physical therapy) for low back and hip flexor issues. Below I have recorded my starting stats, where I was at the end of November at my lightest, end of December when I'd started working my cals up (and when my bodyspace pics were taken), and now, a couple months into my bulk.
08/01................11/29........12/28........2/11
Wt 143.4#.........125.8........127.4.........132.0
BF 28.2%...........19.4..........19.0..........20.3
Chest 36"...........................34"............34. 25
Waist 31.75".......................27.25".......29"
Hips: 41"...........................35.5"..........36"
Arms: 9.75".......................10.75"........11"
Thighs: 22.5......................21".............23"
I think the rate of weight gain is about right. And if the calipers are to be relied upon, it seems like a reasonable amount of fat gain, ie some of it must be muscle? I'm not ecstatic about the 2 inches on my waist- no way I can make that muscle. I deposit fat around my midsection quite easily, but I'm hoping some of that can be attributed to general bloating? I'm not sure about the thigh measurements either- I put fat there easily, and I can see that there's more, but I've also been squatting so some of that is hopefully muscle.
I plan to continue at my 2500 cals/daily for the next month and see what that does, but it looks about right I think overall.
Will have workout info later today. Did my trainer session but it was mostly pressing and core work, so I'm going to do the legs/back part of the next SS session, along with hang power clean practice later todayLast edited by cmg1976; 02-11-2013 at 04:03 PM.
My training journal: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=150928103
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02-11-2013, 08:00 PM #117
Workout today. I had my last trainer session, and also went to the gym for my SS exercises, skipping the overhead press since shoulders were worked with my trainer.
Trainer session cycled through this 3 times:
1. Bench press, 25# db's, 10
2. Body saw (basically a plank position but you slide your feet slide back on these sliders)
3. Farmer's walk holding 50# kettelbells, I think it was timed for 45 seconds
ended with a bunch of ball slams
So, I figured I could do my SS day as long as I omitted shoulders.
1. Squats, 3x5, 117#
2.Bent over row (replacing power cleans for now), 3x5, 55#. I've never done this exercise (the closest I've come is one arm rows with a db) so it took a few tries to find a good starting weight. This was moderately hard and I could have done a few more reps, but I want to focus on getting my back contraction right.
I also did a bunch of hang clean practice before starting the squats, and I am seriously questioning if I am coordinated enough to ever get these right. If I break it down into just hips, or just feet, or just elbows I'm better but my brain just doesn't want to do all of these things at the same time.My training journal: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=150928103
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02-12-2013, 04:40 AM #118
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02-12-2013, 08:52 AM #119
You sure have made a lot of changes since August 2012! The cool part is that you lost size in areas that matter, but you also made muscle gains too. 5" off a person's hips is HUGE!! You also put over an inch on your arms!
It's hard to believe you take in 2500 calories since I maintain on 3000 calories!! You should have a successful bulk if you monitor your fat gains and adjust calories when you need to.-!!!---!!!- No Excuses Homemade Equipment Crew #12 -!!!---!!!- Hardnheavy2011
Best competition lifts: RAW with wraps
Squat- 623@202 611@198
Bench- 374@203 429@222
Deadlift- 601@203 639@228 660@220 (gym)
Total- 1603@222 1554@202
My Journal: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=146556533
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02-12-2013, 03:56 PM #120
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