need help with swimming training

[timmzzy1]

not sure how many swimmers are on this forum (help from anybody is appreciated) but i really need help with weight training for swimming. so, last week i swam in a small meet and ended up breaking the 100m freestyle national record for a 17yo and was only a few seconds off Thorpe's 400m time at the same age, and after the meet i was approached by a guy (speedo rep) that said i had to lose a ****load of weight (im 6'4 and weigh 230lbs) and increase my endurance and core power, and that i should get on a specific program for swimming. a bit of background information, im 17 and have been swimming since i was 4 (competing since 7), i started Olympic lifting at 12 and kept with swimming, i finished with oly lifting at 16 and began powerlifting, so i have quite a bit of power but it doesn't seem to translate to swimming strength as well as i thought, which is why i need a good program for swimming. any help is greatly appreciated. thanks in advance

[gatovolador]

If you are in Australia or the US (especially WA or CA), it should be easy as hell to find a top level swim coach who can point you in the right direction.

In terms of losing weight... I wouldn't worry very much as you aren't fully grown yet (ie past early 20s). If you are swimming 10-20 hours a week, you'll lose some weight and get to a natural swimming weight for your body. Alain Bernard is one of the buffest swimmers and he's 6'5", 200lbs. However, I swam with a few guys who were 6'5" 220lbs and they were about as muscular (not very) as I am at 5'10 150lbs, so it totally depends on your build.

[NickFroman]

There aren't that many swimmers on this forum I can guarantee you that. But with that said, it doesn't mean there aren't some out there. Well first off, you already know that the recovery phase of any stroke is the "pushing" or return movement, where after any stroke breast, butterfly, back, or free; then we can assess that the most power part of our stroke needs to come from the "pulling" phase where we pull our weight and some as fast as possible through the water. Now with this is mind, whenever you go to the gym to lift, make sure you keep a good ratio to help prevent "bulking up." To start, have a 2:1 ratio, where for every 2 pulling exercises, do 1 pushing one. Try to keep the number of repetitions consistent with the ratio, and use functional training to assess opposite exercises for pushing and pulling.

As an example, you would do 20 pull ups and then quickly move over to do 10 push ups. Same with shoulder presses and then reverse flys. Keep in mind, you back works hand in hand with your core, so work on your lats and lower back. Core is very important, being a water polo player, I can guarantee that without it, swimming can be difficult. Flip turns are all core based, the stronger the abs, the faster you can whip your legs and kick off the wall. One of the most important parts of the 100m Free, mess up the turn, and you can gain 1-2 seconds on your time. Now if you increase the speed of your turn, you can cut seconds off. DO lots of ab work, planks, sit ups, reverse crunches, etc.. Legs are important too, hips especially, for underwater dolphin, breast stroke explosiveness, and freestyle kick endurance. Do things like jump squats and medium weight squats to help increase strength.

Now with all this said, nothing in the gym can compare to the work you get in the pool. It's best to lift low weights at high repetitions when in season and then heavier outside of season. Since you are entering the swim season, as I myself am preparing for off season swim, since I only really swim for water polo, I can pass along new exercises my coach shows me that can help. He has coached many teams to state and on further, so he can help fix any problem. As gatovolador said, you don't need to worry about dropping weight right now. Focus more on a good diet that supports the amount of calories you burn and with dedicated swimming sets, focus on pulling strong with your back not your shoulders, you don't want to feel a burn in your rear deltoids unless you are doing high intensity butterfly sets.

Also, the best swim set to work on after lifting is 20 x 200m on the 2:45 for a good pace and then speed it up to 2:30 if you are looking to get in a killer workout, if you miss the interval, just wait 5 seconds on the wall and go. Or just make it continuous, also do some good warm up sets, maybe some 50s and mix up the stroke if you want. Another good one would be 20 x 100m on the 1:15 alternate between all freestyle for one 100 and then Individual Medley, butterfly, back, breast, and free, try to stay consistent and keep a good pace. To make it more challenging, limit the amount of breaths you get on each 25 meters, only 10, then 7, 5, 3, 2, 1 if you are daring. This will increase your lung capacity considerably. My water polo coach gave us killer sets just like that.

Anyway, its great to hear that you have speed. Stay away from large weights and focus on good form and remember not to bulk up, if you want to keep your speed train more like an athlete, not a powerlifter. No offense to any of them, what they do is difficult. But swimming puts your body in a different condition. You need lean muscle, so stay focused and train smart my friend. Also before I go, can I get some stats?

For instance, your 50 free time, fastest 100 free, and any other strokes you swim, your arm span, if you are a club swimmer and high school swimmer, and do you plan on going to any colleges and competing?

Hope my advice helps, I am always looking to help those in the water whether it be my love of water polo, or the necessity of swimming. Happy training, and best of luck.

-Nick

[swimmerguy13]

There aren't that many swimmers on this forum I can guarantee you that. But with that said, it doesn't mean there aren't some out there. Well first off, you already know that the recovery phase of any stroke is the "pushing" or return movement, where after any stroke breast, butterfly, back, or free; then we can assess that the most power part of our stroke needs to come from the "pulling" phase where we pull our weight and some as fast as possible through the water. Now with this is mind, whenever you go to the gym to lift, make sure you keep a good ratio to help prevent "bulking up." To start, have a 2:1 ratio, where for every 2 pulling exercises, do 1 pushing one. Try to keep the number of repetitions consistent with the ratio, and use functional training to assess opposite exercises for pushing and pulling.

As an example, you would do 20 pull ups and then quickly move over to do 10 push ups. Same with shoulder presses and then reverse flys. Keep in mind, you back works hand in hand with your core, so work on your lats and lower back. Core is very important, being a water polo player, I can guarantee that without it, swimming can be difficult. Flip turns are all core based, the stronger the abs, the faster you can whip your legs and kick off the wall. One of the most important parts of the 100m Free, mess up the turn, and you can gain 1-2 seconds on your time. Now if you increase the speed of your turn, you can cut seconds off. DO lots of ab work, planks, sit ups, reverse crunches, etc.. Legs are important too, hips especially, for underwater dolphin, breast stroke explosiveness, and freestyle kick endurance. Do things like jump squats and medium weight squats to help increase strength.

Now with all this said, nothing in the gym can compare to the work you get in the pool. It's best to lift low weights at high repetitions when in season and then heavier outside of season. Since you are entering the swim season, as I myself am preparing for off season swim, since I only really swim for water polo, I can pass along new exercises my coach shows me that can help. He has coached many teams to state and on further, so he can help fix any problem. As gatovolador said, you don't need to worry about dropping weight right now. Focus more on a good diet that supports the amount of calories you burn and with dedicated swimming sets, focus on pulling strong with your back not your shoulders, you don't want to feel a burn in your rear deltoids unless you are doing high intensity butterfly sets.

Also, the best swim set to work on after lifting is 20 x 200m on the 2:45 for a good pace and then speed it up to 2:30 if you are looking to get in a killer workout, if you miss the interval, just wait 5 seconds on the wall and go. Or just make it continuous, also do some good warm up sets, maybe some 50s and mix up the stroke if you want. Another good one would be 20 x 100m on the 1:15 alternate between all freestyle for one 100 and then Individual Medley, butterfly, back, breast, and free, try to stay consistent and keep a good pace. To make it more challenging, limit the amount of breaths you get on each 25 meters, only 10, then 7, 5, 3, 2, 1 if you are daring. This will increase your lung capacity considerably. My water polo coach gave us killer sets just like that.

Anyway, its great to hear that you have speed. Stay away from large weights and focus on good form and remember not to bulk up, if you want to keep your speed train more like an athlete, not a powerlifter. No offense to any of them, what they do is difficult. But swimming puts your body in a different condition. You need lean muscle, so stay focused and train smart my friend. Also before I go, can I get some stats?

For instance, your 50 free time, fastest 100 free, and any other strokes you swim, your arm span, if you are a club swimmer and high school swimmer, and do you plan on going to any colleges and competing?

Hope my advice helps, I am always looking to help those in the water whether it be my love of water polo, or the necessity of swimming. Happy training, and best of luck.

-Nick

pretty much this. try and stay away from the powerlifting/bulking exercises and do speed and endurance ones, but you should get all the strength you need from just smimming, the only things i do at the gym is a lot of back work and arms/legs, other than that it's swimming everyday, i highly suggest buying the ipod/iphone app 'my tri swim coach', you put in some details and it generates a swimming workout for you. and btw, that was my 100m record that you broke, good on you (not sure if i'v met you though?)

[timmzzy1]

There aren't that many swimmers on this forum I can guarantee you that. But with that said, it doesn't mean there aren't some out there. Well first off, you already know that the recovery phase of any stroke is the "pushing" or return movement, where after any stroke breast, butterfly, back, or free; then we can assess that the most power part of our stroke needs to come from the "pulling" phase where we pull our weight and some as fast as possible through the water. Now with this is mind, whenever you go to the gym to lift, make sure you keep a good ratio to help prevent "bulking up." To start, have a 2:1 ratio, where for every 2 pulling exercises, do 1 pushing one. Try to keep the number of repetitions consistent with the ratio, and use functional training to assess opposite exercises for pushing and pulling.

As an example, you would do 20 pull ups and then quickly move over to do 10 push ups. Same with shoulder presses and then reverse flys. Keep in mind, you back works hand in hand with your core, so work on your lats and lower back. Core is very important, being a water polo player, I can guarantee that without it, swimming can be difficult. Flip turns are all core based, the stronger the abs, the faster you can whip your legs and kick off the wall. One of the most important parts of the 100m Free, mess up the turn, and you can gain 1-2 seconds on your time. Now if you increase the speed of your turn, you can cut seconds off. DO lots of ab work, planks, sit ups, reverse crunches, etc.. Legs are important too, hips especially, for underwater dolphin, breast stroke explosiveness, and freestyle kick endurance. Do things like jump squats and medium weight squats to help increase strength.

Now with all this said, nothing in the gym can compare to the work you get in the pool. It's best to lift low weights at high repetitions when in season and then heavier outside of season. Since you are entering the swim season, as I myself am preparing for off season swim, since I only really swim for water polo, I can pass along new exercises my coach shows me that can help. He has coached many teams to state and on further, so he can help fix any problem. As gatovolador said, you don't need to worry about dropping weight right now. Focus more on a good diet that supports the amount of calories you burn and with dedicated swimming sets, focus on pulling strong with your back not your shoulders, you don't want to feel a burn in your rear deltoids unless you are doing high intensity butterfly sets.

Also, the best swim set to work on after lifting is 20 x 200m on the 2:45 for a good pace and then speed it up to 2:30 if you are looking to get in a killer workout, if you miss the interval, just wait 5 seconds on the wall and go. Or just make it continuous, also do some good warm up sets, maybe some 50s and mix up the stroke if you want. Another good one would be 20 x 100m on the 1:15 alternate between all freestyle for one 100 and then Individual Medley, butterfly, back, breast, and free, try to stay consistent and keep a good pace. To make it more challenging, limit the amount of breaths you get on each 25 meters, only 10, then 7, 5, 3, 2, 1 if you are daring. This will increase your lung capacity considerably. My water polo coach gave us killer sets just like that.

Anyway, its great to hear that you have speed. Stay away from large weights and focus on good form and remember not to bulk up, if you want to keep your speed train more like an athlete, not a powerlifter. No offense to any of them, what they do is difficult. But swimming puts your body in a different condition. You need lean muscle, so stay focused and train smart my friend. Also before I go, can I get some stats?

For instance, your 50 free time, fastest 100 free, and any other strokes you swim, your arm span, if you are a club swimmer and high school swimmer, and do you plan on going to any colleges and competing?

Hope my advice helps, I am always looking to help those in the water whether it be my love of water polo, or the necessity of swimming. Happy training, and best of luck.

-Nick

Thanks mate

[timmzzy1]

pretty much this. try and stay away from the powerlifting/bulking exercises and do speed and endurance ones, but you should get all the strength you need from just smimming, the only things i do at the gym is a lot of back work and arms/legs, other than that it's swimming everyday, i highly suggest buying the ipod/iphone app 'my tri swim coach', you put in some details and it generates a swimming workout for you. and btw, that was my 100m record that you broke, good on you (not sure if i'v met you though?)

Thanks man, i'll try out the app. Lol, was sorry about the record brah, im sure you'll break mine again anyway, your cam arn't you? If so we met at an awards ceramony, i thought you lived in queensland though?

[swimmerguy13]

Thanks man, i'll try out the app. Lol, was sorry about the record brah, im sure you'll break mine again anyway, your cam arn't you? If so we met at an awards ceramony, i thought you lived in queensland though?

no worries man, i'll get it back, yeah i am, when was the ceremony? i used to live in queensland but i moved down to victoria about 5 months ago

[NebraskaBeef]

Great advice all around I would say. I swam in my younger high school years (not on your level gentlemen) and made the mistake of chasing a bench max while in swimming season. Because of that I have had lagging minor shoulder pain for 11 years.

If you are going to weight train (IMO you should) keep the weight reasonable, the reps high, and the movements big. Swimming is all about large and efficient movement. Pull ups are great! If you super set them with a low-medium weight power clean for high reps and low rest you will recruit a TON of muscle fiber, push your endurance, and bang out a great superset w/o being rough on your joints. Throw is squat / pushup / dips set or some other combo and you have a workout you can bang out in 30-40min twice a week.

Just my advice, keep it simple with the abs, you don’t need to spend forever on them, just make sure they get their work. Do some planks, then a few sets of some good ab exercise and finish with another plank or two, just like mom used to make.

[swimmerguy13]

Great advice all around I would say. I swam in my younger high school years (not on your level gentlemen) and made the mistake of chasing a bench max while in swimming season. Because of that I have had lagging minor shoulder pain for 11 years.

If you are going to weight train (IMO you should) keep the weight reasonable, the reps high, and the movements big. Swimming is all about large and efficient movement. Pull ups are great! If you super set them with a low-medium weight power clean for high reps and low rest you will recruit a TON of muscle fiber, push your endurance, and bang out a great superset w/o being rough on your joints. Throw is squat / pushup / dips set or some other combo and you have a workout you can bang out in 30-40min twice a week.

Just my advice, keep it simple with the abs, you don’t need to spend forever on them, just make sure they get their work. Do some planks, then a few sets of some good ab exercise and finish with another plank or two, just like mom used to make.

thats some pretty good advice, i'd rather do muscle-ups than pull-ups but not many people can do them (not sure if op can)