Ketosis

[azstrengthcoach]

Hence the benefit of CKD or IF on a bulk

[induced_drag]

Hence the benefit of CKD...on a bulk

I had GREAT results on the "Anabolic Diet" by Dr Mario Depasquale. Basically a CKD diet.


I know keto works well for me, but I am not willing to go that extreme.


What I have found, is that running bulking and cutting cycles is VERY effective for me. Much more so then "recomping".

The fist few months after an extended deficit (10-12 weeks at -400/-500ca), I can keep cals and carbs very high with minimal fat gain. My strength skyrockets...with minimal fat gain. After a few months, I will have to start to drop cals slightly..to keep fat from coming on too quickly, but can still keep them pretty high spiking them on workout days. I carb cycle. Ran my last "bulk" almost 5 months with minimal fat gain.

Just coming off an extended deficit now and ramping up cals now.

For me, dropping cals for a period of time seems to 'prime' my body to be ready to grow. I can actually feel (maybe it is in my head), but it feels like I process carbs different as well. I can eat the hell out of just about anything and it just feels like I absorb it. No crash...etc. I can pound some food after being on a deficit for a while.

[KLMARB]

Hence the benefit of CKD or IF on a bulk

It depends. If you're talking about "keto" carb levels of less than 30g carbs, I consider in unnecessarily low for the vast majority of people. For those few that readapt back into lipogenesis on very low carbs, it certainly would apply. With the caveat that they had achieved anore/orex hormonal balance, rather than having lingering resistance issues. That state would be more likely if a person still had significant body fat when switching from cut to bulk. To judge carb intake levels, I'd suggest ketone testing daily initially, making sure of a positive test every two or three day max, preventing a sustained lipogenic, and therefore adaptive, pattern..Once you establish a comfortable pattern, testing can be done less frequently...

[azstrengthcoach]

It depends. If you're talking about "keto" carb levels of less than 30g carbs, I consider in unnecessarily low for the vast majority of people. For those few that readapt back into lipogenesis on very low carbs, it certainly would apply. With the caveat that they had achieved anore/orex hormonal balance, rather than having lingering resistance issues. That state would be more likely if a person still had significant body fat when switching from cut to bulk. To judge carb intake levels, I'd suggest ketone testing daily initially, making sure of a positive test every two or three day max, preventing a sustained lipogenic, and therefore adaptive, pattern..Once you establish a comfortable pattern, testing can be done less frequently...

Again the point of a CKD or IF, you stay highly sensitive to insulin and all carbs are used to build muscle

[discdoggie]

I

The fist few months after an extended deficit (10-12 weeks at -400/-500ca), I can keep cals and carbs very high with minimal fat gain. My strength skyrockets...with minimal fat gain. After a few months, I will have to start to drop cals slightly..to keep fat from coming on too quickly, but can still keep them pretty high spiking them on workout days. I carb cycle. Ran my last "bulk" almost 5 months with minimal fat gain.

I have only done one (intentional) bulk but I noticed the same thing. It began after an extended cut and although the numbers said I should have started putting on mass immediately, it took me 3-4 weeks to even gain a half a pound. After that, though, the gains came at a predictable and appropriate rate.

[KLMARB]

Again the point of a CKD or IF, you stay highly sensitive to insulin and all carbs are used to build muscle

I'm not sure if I made myself clear. Are you advocating CKD, in the sense of such a low level of carb intake, for bulking?

[azstrengthcoach]

I'm not sure if I made myself clear. Are you advocating CKD, in the sense of such a low level of carb intake, for bulking?

Both you can bulk on a CKD

[ntrllftr]

Both you can bulk on a CKD

That's got to be the most retrded thing I've read in years!!!

In before some bogus study.

[ntrllftr]

I'm not sure if I made myself clear. Are you advocating CKD, in the sense of such a low level of carb intake, for bulking?

Maybe he meant TKD... That I might buy but still wouldn't rcommend it personally.

[azstrengthcoach]

That's got to be the most retrded thing I've read in years!!!

In before some bogus study.

I thought you had blocked me? Protein synthesis occurs irrelevant of carbohydrate levels. Even if you consume zero carbs protien is insulinogenic especially post workout, you can bulk on a CKD diet. Don't believe me look at Lyle McDonalds work

[azstrengthcoach]

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/Blog/...gth-Power.aspx

It's slower muscle gains but you can bulk on a low carb diet

[ntrllftr]

I thought you had blocked me? Protein synthesis occurs irrelevant of carbohydrate levels. Even if you consume zero carbs protien is insulinogenic especially post workout, you can bulk on a CKD diet. Don't believe me look at Lyle McDonalds work

Again... Refering me to other peoples work.
I had bosses in the past that were book smart. They were very smart but when it came down to doing the actual job... They sucked at it!
Exactly why you post all these studies, other peoples theories etc. without providing any real actual results that you have made. There really is a LOT to be said about that in the world of bodybuilding!

Yes, you are blocked from my pm's I was sick of all the name calling. I would rather keep it to pm's and leave everyone else in the forums out of it but you needed to push it to the limits. Yer not worth my personal time in my pm account anymore.

[KLMARB]

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/Blog/...gth-Power.aspx

It's slower muscle gains but you can bulk on a low carb diet

Sure, but once again, its a question of what is optimal. I consider that view to be an oversimplification of the "Keto" concept, in denial of (once again) specific biochemistry. When cutting, the issue is sustained, adapted lipolysis. When bulking, the issue is sustained, adapted muscular anabolism, causing additional muscle fiber recruitment, while preventing a re-adaptation back into lipogenesis. So, the term low-carb, in terms of a bulk, is subjective. Conceptually, carb intake is increased to an optimal level, depending upon the individual, as long as it's not so high it causes the re-adaptation back into lipogenesis. That's why I explained how to prevent this re-adaptation in my earlier post...

[azstrengthcoach]

Again... Refering me to other peoples work.
I had bosses in the past that were book smart. They were very smart but when it came down to doing the actual job... They sucked at it!
Exactly why you post all these studies, other peoples theories etc. without providing any real actual results that you have made. There really is a LOT to be said about that in the world of bodybuilding!

Yes, you are blocked from my pm's I was sick of all the name calling. I would rather keep it to pm's and leave everyone else in the forums out of it but you needed to push it to the limits. Yer not worth my personal time in my pm account anymore.

Again I'm 50 lbs heavier than you and half your body fat percentage. I have pics on my page. Stop trolling you pathetic little man. The point of presenting studies is to show it works on lots of people and that 1 individual result wasn't a fluke. I don't know what kind of proof would ever make you satisfied, you're obviously bothered for some reason by my background.

[azstrengthcoach]

Sure, but once again, its a question of what is optimal. I consider that view to be an oversimplification of the "Keto" concept, in denial of (once again) specific biochemistry. When cutting, the issue is sustained, adapted lipolysis. When bulking, the issue is sustained, adapted muscular anabolism, causing additional muscle fiber recruitment, while preventing a re-adaptation back into lipogenesis. So, the term low-carb, in terms of a bulk, is subjective. Conceptually, carb intake is increased to an optimal level, depending upon the individual, as long as it's not so high it causes the re-adaptation back into lipogenesis. That's why I explained how to prevent this re-adaptation in my earlier post...

You didn't really explain, you kept using a bunch a of techno jargon. I never said it was optimal I said you can do it, it's slower gains yes but you also don't add any fat, which for some people is a greater goal

[azstrengthcoach]

I had GREAT results on the "Anabolic Diet" by Dr Mario Depasquale. Basically a CKD diet.


I know keto works well for me, but I am not willing to go that extreme.


What I have found, is that running bulking and cutting cycles is VERY effective for me. Much more so then "recomping".

The fist few months after an extended deficit (10-12 weeks at -400/-500ca), I can keep cals and carbs very high with minimal fat gain. My strength skyrockets...with minimal fat gain. After a few months, I will have to start to drop cals slightly..to keep fat from coming on too quickly, but can still keep them pretty high spiking them on workout days. I carb cycle. Ran my last "bulk" almost 5 months with minimal fat gain.

Just coming off an extended deficit now and ramping up cals now.

For me, dropping cals for a period of time seems to 'prime' my body to be ready to grow. I can actually feel (maybe it is in my head), but it feels like I process carbs different as well. I can eat the hell out of just about anything and it just feels like I absorb it. No crash...etc. I can pound some food after being on a deficit for a while.

Something works really well for all if us like trolling for Carl

[ntrllftr]

You didn't really explain, you kept using a bunch a of techno jargon. I never said it was optimal I said you can do it, it's slower gains yes but you also don't add any fat, which for some people is a greater goal

Something works really well for all if us like trolling for Carl

That might be all well and good for someone who competes while wearing board shorts. The male version of bikini contests.
As a bodybuilder it is NOT optimal. What's trolling about speaking the truth?

[azstrengthcoach]

We're male bikini yet you're the one wearing the male equivalent of a bikini?

[bigvin73]

We're male bikini yet you're the one wearing the male equivalent of a bikini?

Dude tell me you don't do men's physique? C'mon man really????

[ntrllftr]

We're male bikini yet you're the one wearing the male equivalent of a bikini?

I just made a general statement....
What's this we're? I thought you said you competed in bodybuilding.

[KLMARB]

Oh, please. If you guys insist on internet weiner dueling, why not PM each other? Hell, you'll be able to do it for YEARS, without hijacking the thread.....

[ntrllftr]

Oh, please. If you guys insist on internet weiner dueling, why not PM each other? Hell, you'll be able to do it for YEARS, without hijacking the thread.....

Tried that bro. Refer to post 102 above. Besides this is the internet....


I'm right he's wrong.

Actually, I'll quote it for you. For gods sake we wouldn't want to to go scrolling up or anything.

Yes, you are blocked from my pm's I was sick of all the name calling. I would rather keep it to pm's and leave everyone else in the forums out of it but you needed to push it to the limits. Yer not worth my personal time in my pm account anymore.

[azstrengthcoach]

Dude tell me you don't do men's physique? C'mon man really????

Please tell me you don't like parading for men in a tiny bikini to music?

[azstrengthcoach]

I just made a general statement....
What's this we're? I thought you said you competed in bodybuilding.

I have I like men's physique better

[bigvin73]

Please tell me you don't like parading for men in a tiny bikini to music?

That's funny. Actually I work legs I'm not welcome in men's physique.

[erinlee01]

Don't make me put you boys in time out!

Waiting for call out thread...

[induced_drag]

That's funny. Actually I work legs I'm not welcome in men's physique.

You know,....I have never understood the whole "physique' thing.


While I understand not desiring to be a 'bodybuilder', I dont understand the idea behind covering up 1/3 of the body in a 'physique' competition. I guess it would be like judging with bath robes on

Do they have to wear 'board shorts' or can you chose to wear something that actually shows leg development?... Thinking of something more then a bikini and less then board shorts.

[KLMARB]

You didn't really explain, you kept using a bunch a of techno jargon. I never said it was optimal I said you can do it, it's slower gains yes but you also don't add any fat, which for some people is a greater goal

Hopefully we're back on topic. Here's my point. Long-term VLCD can potentially cause adaptations as well. Specifically, I'm talking about T3 and T4 levels. This point is usually oversimplified and used as a reason to avoid VLCDs completely. It's much the same as attempting to equate benign ketosis as being the same as diabetic ketoacidosis. I'm sure you've run into this point in your reading, as I did. I rejected it initially as being non-applicable, or at least of small significance.

Now comes the personal anecdote, take it for what you will.

Two years ago, I developed the symptoms of low T. I had been eating VLC (fat-based) for several months. Since I was aware of the possibility, I developed a hypothesis to increase T, while at the same time preventing lipogenic (fat storage) re-adaptation. It is a result of this that I began the process of carb manipulation, during both bulk and cut cycles, as a way to avoid this specific, hormonal effect. I was successful, all the negative symptoms disappeared, and I was able to resume both my fat loss, as well as my muscle gain. All without lipogenic re-adaptation. Now you understand the points of my earlier posts....

One thing I've not been able to validate, either on a personal basis or by talking to others, is the concept of significant fat gain while in lipolysis. This is usually justified by ASP, but I'm not been able to actually have it happen. When in a significant caloric excess, my fat loss stops, rather than experiencing any regain. If anyone has a different experience, please post, I have a few questions....

[bigvin73]

Don't make me put you boys in time out!

Waiting for call out thread...

I don't do time out I've been very bad and need spanking!!!!

[bigvin73]

You know,....I have never understood the whole "physique' thing.


While I understand not desiring to be a 'bodybuilder', I dont understand the idea behind covering up 1/3 of the body in a 'physique' competition. I guess it would be like judging with bath robes on

Do they have to wear 'board shorts' or can you chose to wear something that actually shows leg development?... Thinking of something more then a bikini and less then board shorts.

Its official Rey are drinking ice water in hell. You and I agree on something ID.

Physique is a way to try and attract mainstream people into the sport and for guys who use the "I don't want to get all big" excuse as to why not body build. That and yes board shorts can't flex and can't work legs cause its hard