Ketosis

[KLMARB]

Here's a link related to the adaptive nature of lipolytic (ketogenic) nutritional patterns. You'll quickly see how it relates not only to the italian study, but to the comments I've made throughout the thread.. http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/1/1/2..

I essentially duplicated the findings of this link with one of my sons several years ago. He was borderline obese at the time. Since I had already lost nearly 200lbs. of fat at that time, he agreed to follow a lipolytic pattern I designed. The summer between his sophmore and junior years of high school, he lost nearly 40lbs. His pant size went from size 34 to size 29. He was only 5'9" at the time. After only one summer, he went from being a source of ridicule to being one of the fittest boys in his school. At no time did we restrict calories, we relied on leptin resistance reduction, leading to a "balanced" anorexigenic/orexigenic hormonal secretion pattern. He subsequently went out for, and lettered, in cross-country, being ranked fourth in his school. (Top six are awarded letters). Now he's 22, and has not regained any body fat...Not bad for a "fat kid"...

[Smuts]

I'm sorry to bump what has clearly been a controversial thread but I'd like to get back to the original question about ketogenic diets for women and ask some specifics.

I have been trying to lose weight over the past 14 months. I've had good, steady, 6 week long goes at various calorie levels (1200, 1400, 1500, 1800 and 2000) and no change at any of them. I completed 45 days of P90X (no change) and 90 days of Chalean Extreme (stronger but no fat loss). Stopped drinking alcohol too, made no difference.

Decided it was my birth control at fault, as I read the kind I was on prevents muscle growth and makes the body hang on to fat. After the switch I gained 20lb in 3 weeks. Switched to no birth control in January and back to 1200 calories. Still no loss. Still holding on to the extra 20lbs!

I've just started keto with IF (start eating at around 1 or 2pm each day) and am on day 4 (though have been going in and out of it for a few weeks preceding - have no decided to stick to it). I have chosen this as I understand it can help in hormone related weight situations.

I calculated my TDEE as around 1900 (by FitBit and various sites) so am eating about 1500. I'm in ketosis according to the taste in my mouth and those darn stick things. Eating just meat, fish, green veg and salad, eggs, cheese and heavy cream in my tea.

So, if I've been in a calorie deficit before and lost no weight - are there any advantages to keto for me - given the hormone regulation stuff. Should I carry on with this. I'm feeling utterly at my wit's end with this weight issue.

I guess i just need some ideas and advice really. :-)

[pastorgbc]

If you are committing to keto, I would not worry about the calorie deficit. You will need fat calories to supply your workouts, and if you are at too much of a deficit, the workouts will suffer. I would also reconsider committing to IF at the same time. When I have done any restrictive diets, I found it was necessary to eat whenever I was hungry.

I am on a big avocado kick as of late, so I am going to recommend eating at least a half of an avocado a day. The healthy fats and the nutrition will really help you out. I am also going to suggest using coconut oil to cook with and to put in your tea instead of heavy cream. Coconut oil is almost all medium chain triglycerides and your body processes them differently than other saturated fats; it very readily converts them into energy.

I would also read up on re-feeding as part of your keto diet. The keto model was designed for people with serious health conditions and was not originally intended as a diet to support the bodybuilding lifestyle/workout intensity. A re-feed may be necessary for you to be able to keep up with your workouts. You do not want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Good luck,
Ray

[KLMARB]

I'm sorry to bump what has clearly been a controversial thread but I'd like to get back to the original question about ketogenic diets for women and ask some specifics.

I have been trying to lose weight over the past 14 months. I've had good, steady, 6 week long goes at various calorie levels (1200, 1400, 1500, 1800 and 2000) and no change at any of them. I completed 45 days of P90X (no change) and 90 days of Chalean Extreme (stronger but no fat loss). Stopped drinking alcohol too, made no difference.

Decided it was my birth control at fault, as I read the kind I was on prevents muscle growth and makes the body hang on to fat. After the switch I gained 20lb in 3 weeks. Switched to no birth control in January and back to 1200 calories. Still no loss. Still holding on to the extra 20lbs!

I've just started keto with IF (start eating at around 1 or 2pm each day) and am on day 4 (though have been going in and out of it for a few weeks preceding - have no decided to stick to it). I have chosen this as I understand it can help in hormone related weight situations.

I calculated my TDEE as around 1900 (by FitBit and various sites) so am eating about 1500. I'm in ketosis according to the taste in my mouth and those darn stick things. Eating just meat, fish, green veg and salad, eggs, cheese and heavy cream in my tea.

So, if I've been in a calorie deficit before and lost no weight - are there any advantages to keto for me - given the hormone regulation stuff. Should I carry on with this. I'm feeling utterly at my wit's end with this weight issue.

I guess i just need some ideas and advice really. :-)

Yes, you should continue following a lipolytic (keto) pattern. This will enable you to fully "adapt out" of any remaining lipogenic adaptations. I recommend doing this for two weeks, WITHOUT restricting calories during that time. Do not intentionally overeat. Just keep your calories around maintenance levels. After that, you can re-evaluate and decide what to do..i.e. ask more question, etc..

[Smuts]

Thank you both. I'm popping out at lunchtime to grab me some coconut oil then, though I'm not sure how I'll enjoy tea with that. :-) i'm willing to try anything at this stage.

IF comes pretty naturally to me. It is 1pm here now and I've not felt a whisper of hunger, so I don't feel at all restricted by it. My hunger has always switched on at the point I start eating. If I have breakfast I'm hungry all day, if i don't I'm fine....until lunch ;-)

I'll check back in with you at the end of the two weeks.

[BalhamBeast]

I've been doing keto since Dec 27th and have lost 11lbs so far. Wasn't a great loss to start with (4lbs in the first week or so) and after two weeks I hit a three week weight loss stall. Then I lost two pounds a week for two consecutive weeks, Basically, hang with it. Weight loss isn't linear - sometimes you'll stall but don't panic.

I use coconut oil for cooking and MCTs sometimes in coffee. I wouldn't put it in tea, though!

[Smuts]

I've been doing keto since Dec 27th and have lost 11lbs so far. Wasn't a great loss to start with (4lbs in the first week or so) and after two weeks I hit a three week weight loss stall. Then I lost two pounds a week for two consecutive weeks, Basically, hang with it. Weight loss isn't linear - sometimes you'll stall but don't panic.

I use coconut oil for cooking and MCTs sometimes in coffee. I wouldn't put it in tea, though!

Thank you. I don't drink coffee but I'll use it for cooking, it sounds pretty tasty and I cook a lot of indian, thai and west indian so it should fit in fine. :-)

I only want to lose 15-20lbs really, so i'm hoping this is the thing that finally works. nothing else seems to, my body just loves this weight.

[KLMARB]

Thank you. I don't drink coffee but I'll use it for cooking, it sounds pretty tasty and I cook a lot of indian, thai and west indian so it should fit in fine. :-)

I only want to lose 15-20lbs really, so i'm hoping this is the thing that finally works. nothing else seems to, my body just loves this weight.

I suggest that today you take some pictures of yourself. You'll want them later on. If they're nudes, feel free to send me copies. I need them to, err, ummm, evaluate your progress....

[Smuts]

I suggest that today you take some pictures of yourself. You'll want them later on. If they're nudes, feel free to send me copies. I need them to, err, ummm, evaluate your progress....

Hey - if this works I'll be sending everyone nude pics.

[KLMARB]

Hey - if this works I'll be sending everyone nude pics.

It will. Remember you said that!

[BalhamBeast]

You might find it helpful to Google fat set point. Here's one article on the subject. If the body is used to being a certain weight and fat percentage and has been for some time, it's a bugger to get it to change. Keto does work, but you really need to work at maintaining your goal weight for about a year or more before your body will adjust. At least, that's the theory. It's no accident that most of the contestants on The Biggest Loser end up gaining all their weight back - as do a lot of people who have major transformations.

[KLMARB]

You might find it helpful to Google fat set point. Here's one article on the subject. If the body is used to being a certain weight and fat percentage and has been for some time, it's a bugger to get it to change. Keto does work, but you really need to work at maintaining your goal weight for about a year or more before your body will adjust. At least, that's the theory. It's no accident that most of the contestants on The Biggest Loser end up gaining all their weight back - as do a lot of people who have major transformations.

Ah, excellent. Yet another dimension to the discussion. Homeostasis, or, in terms of body fat levels, lipostasis. If you view the human body as a fairly self-regulating mechanism, (due to the hormonal pairs) as I do, its fairly easy to understand. If you look at the adaptive process of nutritional patterns in general, it takes time for both positive as well as negative adaptations to occur, to perpetuate the state/condition. So, if a change is made causing a significant biochemical change to occur, it takes the body a little time to adjust to the new state. Since it takes around one month for the body to completely renew its cellular structure, I use that as a guide. Once that occurs, you have to "jolt" the biochemistry to enable adaptation into a different state. For fat loss, its usually caloric restriction and increased exercise. This concept also explains the concept of fat loss without restricting calories, as the body adjusts to the reduction of hyperinsulinemia. This is also why I suggest a one month (minimum) stabilization period after major fat loss, so the body has a chance to adjust to its new hormonal secretion state/levels...So, in reality, there is no "floor", just another "step" down the stairs of fat loss. Sometimes you hang out on a step for a little while..

[azstrengthcoach]

I'm sorry to bump what has clearly been a controversial thread but I'd like to get back to the original question about ketogenic diets for women and ask some specifics.

I have been trying to lose weight over the past 14 months. I've had good, steady, 6 week long goes at various calorie levels (1200, 1400, 1500, 1800 and 2000) and no change at any of them. I completed 45 days of P90X (no change) and 90 days of Chalean Extreme (stronger but no fat loss). Stopped drinking alcohol too, made no difference.

Decided it was my birth control at fault, as I read the kind I was on prevents muscle growth and makes the body hang on to fat. After the switch I gained 20lb in 3 weeks. Switched to no birth control in January and back to 1200 calories. Still no loss. Still holding on to the extra 20lbs!

I've just started keto with IF (start eating at around 1 or 2pm each day) and am on day 4 (though have been going in and out of it for a few weeks preceding - have no decided to stick to it). I have chosen this as I understand it can help in hormone related weight situations.

I calculated my TDEE as around 1900 (by FitBit and various sites) so am eating about 1500. I'm in ketosis according to the taste in my mouth and those darn stick things. Eating just meat, fish, green veg and salad, eggs, cheese and heavy cream in my tea.

So, if I've been in a calorie deficit before and lost no weight - are there any advantages to keto for me - given the hormone regulation stuff. Should I carry on with this. I'm feeling utterly at my wit's end with this weight issue.

I guess i just need some ideas and advice really. :-)

I'd suggest seeing a physician

[azstrengthcoach]

I've been doing keto since Dec 27th and have lost 11lbs so far. Wasn't a great loss to start with (4lbs in the first week or so) and after two weeks I hit a three week weight loss stall. Then I lost two pounds a week for two consecutive weeks, Basically, hang with it. Weight loss isn't linear - sometimes you'll stall but don't panic.

I use coconut oil for cooking and MCTs sometimes in coffee. I wouldn't put it in tea, though!

How do you feel on keto?

[Smuts]

I'd suggest seeing a physician

Done, full bloods came back normal. :S

[azstrengthcoach]

Done, full bloods came back normal. :S

Then you should be losing weight

[Smuts]

Then you should be losing weight

I KNOW!

I think I might still have some of the old birth control floating around my body, apparently it can take a year to go. Who knows.

[azstrengthcoach]

I KNOW!

I think I might still have some of the old birth control floating around my body, apparently it can take a year to go. Who knows.

It's possible

[Smuts]

It's possible

All I know if that I am going at this 100% - no cheat meals AT ALL for one month, and a reasonable calorie deficit. Not even a sniff of a cheat.

If nothing changes after that I may have to go back to the Doctor.

[azstrengthcoach]

All I know if that I am going at this 100% - no cheat meals AT ALL for one month, and a reasonable calorie deficit. Not even a sniff of a cheat.

If nothing changes after that I may have to go back to the Doctor.

Sounds like a plan

[weiss1967]

little two-week report from me. Accidentlly decided to follow keto diet plan. No real goals, just woke up one morning and made a decision, Funny, eh. I can tell, this is most amazing diet plan ever. I literally don't know where my energy is coming from, because I don't eat much, nor am I hungry, really in a 1000 calries deficit probably. Work out every day, this is on really active background of the rest of the day. I can either hike for a few hours or throw knives or do some gardening - not seating around in other words. Strength is about the same, was nursing tendonitis, it is in remission and goes away, until then I will be careful on bicep curls and cable pulls and such. There were words of caution (from internet gurus)about possible "plumbing" issues, I can say I feel good in that department, actually better than ever. A bit of hi-fiber veggies and all is well. Experimenting with coconut oil, love the stuff, but it seem to have low temperature burning point. Maybe I just don't know how to use it right, can't get any cooking done without smoking up the whole house. Switching into keto was sort of instantaneous, keto sticks shown mild ketosis the same day I started. On a carb-up day sticks shown ketosis as well, only changed from moderate to mild. I am thinking, maybe keto is really a natural, primordial "hunter-gatherer" diet? Well, I have a faint pinch of a headache once in a while, and I am sure this is from keto diet, but that is really nothing. Two weeks probably too short period for any serious observations, but I lost somewhere 10 pounds at least, been peeing myself silly, literally, almost like at a beer party. Sorry for long post

[nursemel123]

This diet is intriguing to me. Can someone comment on what defines someone who is lipogenic? I am over weight, but not obese. I have about 30% bf am 155lbs, 5"4 33 years younger . I do have significant estrogen dominance syndrome and would love to be able to balance my hormones without taking nasty birth control. Do you think this diet would benefit me and could someone link me to what exactly a keto diet entails? Thanks.

[KLMARB]

This diet is intriguing to me. Can someone comment on what defines someone who is lipogenic? I am over weight, but not obese. I have about 30% bf am 155lbs, 5"4 33 years younger . I do have significant estrogen dominance syndrome and would love to be able to balance my hormones without taking nasty birth control. Do you think this diet would benefit me and could someone link me to what exactly a keto diet entails? Thanks.

Here is the basic protocol for CKD. In a nutshell, a person who is lipogenic in the chronic sense, is someone who has adapted into a fat-gaining state, due to rising anorexigenic hormonal resistance. All due to nutritional pattern.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=36497