High GI, insulin spikes, and fast metabolism

[germaine07]

year after year of eating too much high GI foods (ie. too much insuline spikes) could lead to insuline resistance, which could lead to T2D.

I think glycemic load, not glycemic index would be a bigger contributing factor wouldn't it?

As well, just to note, there are more contributing factors to diabetes than just carbohydrate (effecting insulin) intake in diet. Being physically active I think is a bigger preventative if I'm not mistaken.

[WonderPug]

I think glycemic load, not glycemic index would be a bigger contributing factor wouldn't it?

It would be, as GI is utterly useless as a measure sans dose and context of total meal composition.

[darkcloudcover]

I think glycemic load, not glycemic index would be a bigger contributing factor wouldn't it?

Well yes, it's a nice formula that includes the grams of carbs as well: [ (grams of carbs) x (the food's GI) ] / 100

As well, just to note, there are more contributing factors to diabetes than just carbohydrate (effecting insulin) intake in diet. Being physically active I think is a bigger preventative if I'm not mistaken.

You're totally correct, because exercise improves insuline sensitivity.

[DeadliftDOMS]

It would be, as GI is utterly useless as a measure sans dose and context of total meal composition.

Just for you my friend!...several articals including peer viewed from your website and several others...I even included one from a guy that wrote his own artical and previously thought he had all the answers as well...at this point I highly doubt you would ever admit to being wrong but recommend you at the very least read all these articals/journals and there's plenty more out there...all these articals are up to date.


http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org...0/10/2441.full

(your favorite website written a year after that article you gave me)

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/88/3/638.full

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/96/2/438.abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22191431

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0030782

(this one is more about metformin and how is decrease circulating FFA post meal)
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jnume/2012/394623/

(just some guy that made a blog yet it's still interesting to read)
http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2011/...ental.html?m=1

[DeadliftDOMS]

Hey man, anybody can publish a book. The content of the book could be right or wrong, no matter who wrote it, if it's doctors, college professors, or dietitians.

It's very important to look in medical journal at reviewed articles. That's where you get more accurate information, no matter how old it is.

I have a question: When you did your personal trainer certificate, did they tell you about clinical reviews & public health journal? or just taught you the content of their book?

True!!!anyone can publish a book although this book wasn't just written from one person lol...it's all from up to date material from research with several references in it...and of coarse it matters how long it's been even though something's been peer reviewed...do you really think that all the doctors, dietitians, etc never change there thought on something???...that why there's always NEW research being done...That's why things are always getting debunked....that's why we're always learning as human beings...and that's why you must stay up to date with the latest information.

[Browning4]

Thanks everyone for the input. I'll take the safest route and limit my high gi foods and try to replace some with lower gi's.

[germaine07]

Thanks everyone for the input. I'll take the safest route and limit my high gi foods and try to replace some with lower gi's.

How did you come to that conclusion? GI is largely irrelevant.

[DeadliftDOMS]

See post #34

[germaine07]

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org...0/10/2441.full What's that got to do with GI?

(your favorite website written a year after that article you gave me)

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/88/3/638.full What's that got to do with GI?

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/96/2/438.abstract I'm seeing a trend. What has this got to do with the relevance of the GI?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22191431

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0030782

(this one is more about metformin and how is decrease circulating FFA post meal)
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jnume/2012/394623/

(just some guy that made a blog yet it's still interesting to read)
http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2011/...ental.html?m=1

Unless it's just my lack of understanding, I'm failing to see how these would suggest GI of foods are relevant?

[WonderPug]

Unless it's just my lack of understanding, I'm failing to see how these would suggest GI of foods are relevant?

You're correct.

He's just posting irrelevant citations in hopes, I presume, that nobody will bother looking at the referenced text. That or he's simply 100% clueless.

See post #34

Not a single one of those references relate in any meaningfully way to the issue of the GI of individual foods consumed. Rather, they're a bunch of relatively unrelated references to the impact of FFA and medication on insulin resistance, particularly for those in a diseased state.

[rand18m]

You're correct.

He's just posting irrelevant citations in hopes, I presume, that nobody will bother looking at the referenced text.

It's amazing how often this happens, even from writers we tend to put some faith in. It's important for everyone here to check citations, at least the most relevant ones, when reading any person's article. Often you will take a look at the citation and think, hummm, well maybe that has some meaning to the point but not really, or hell what does milk production from holstein cows have to do with training protocols and rep ranges!! It's all over the map sometimes.

So everyone, check those citations, at least a few!!

[DeadliftDOMS]

Wrong again! ...And still being ignorant.....see post 8......see post 10...read carefully this time. All I basically stated was a bit of information I had read and thought it was interesting and wish I could have gave a link to share. I was expressing and sharing a thought!.NON of it was stated as a fact...instead I explained what was in the book...I also then stated that even though this was what I had read I was STILL was not in a 100% agreement with it...i was merely sharing some interesting up to date information. Now go back and read all the links I've posted from first to last...everyone of them backs up what I have said. Just read the conclusions/results if you don't understand them....and only one is about metformin and it's effects on FFAs post meal....I suggest you start with the one from the diabetes journals/American diabetes association. I've read quite a lot of your posts in threads now over the coarse of the past year and there are several threads where you bash someone's belief or opinion..this is a place to express your thoughts, teach, or learn...I would suggest you be a little more open minded in the future and stop acting as though your some nutritional guru.

[germaine07]

Wrong again! ...And still being ignorant.....see post 8......see post 10...read carefully this time. All I basically stated was a bit of information I had read and thought it was interesting and wish I could have gave a link to share. I was expressing and sharing a thought!.NON of it was stated as a fact...instead I explained what was in the book...I also then stated that even though this was what I had read I was STILL was not in a 100% agreement with it...i was merely sharing some interesting up to date information. Now go back and read all the links I've posted from first to last...everyone of them backs up what I have said. Just read the conclusions/results if you don't understand them....and only one is about metformin and it's effects on FFAs post meal....I suggest you start with the one from the diabetes journals/American diabetes association. I've read quite a lot of your posts in threads now over the coarse of the past year and there are several threads where you bash someone's belief or opinion..this is a place to express your thoughts, teach, or learn...I would suggest you be a little more open minded in the future and stop acting as though your some nutritional guru.

Maybe you can pull some quotes from your links to show what exactly relates to the relevance of the glycemic index.

[WonderPug]

It would be, as GI is utterly useless as a measure sans dose and context of total meal composition.

Just for you my friend!...several articals including peer viewed from your website and several others...I even included one from a guy that wrote his own artical and previously thought he had all the answers as well...at this point I highly doubt you would ever admit to being wrong but recommend you at the very least read all these articals/journals and there's plenty more out there...all these articals are up to date.


http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org...0/10/2441.full

(your favorite website written a year after that article you gave me)

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/88/3/638.full

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/96/2/438.abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22191431

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0030782

(this one is more about metformin and how is decrease circulating FFA post meal)
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jnume/2012/394623/

(just some guy that made a blog yet it's still interesting to read)
http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2011/...ental.html?m=1

How did you come to that conclusion? GI is largely irrelevant.

See post #34

Not a single one of those references relate in any meaningfully way to the issue of the GI of individual foods consumed. Rather, they're a bunch of relatively unrelated references to the impact of FFA and medication on insulin resistance, particularly for those in a diseased state.

Wrong again! ...And still being ignorant.....see post 8......see post 10...read carefully this time. All I basically stated was a bit of information I had read and thought it was interesting and wish I could have gave a link to share. I was expressing and sharing a thought!.NON of it was stated as a fact...instead I explained what was in the book...I also then stated that even though this was what I had read I was STILL was not in a 100% agreement with it...i was merely sharing some interesting up to date information. Now go back and read all the links I've posted from first to last...everyone of them backs up what I have said. Just read the conclusions/results if you don't understand them....and only one is about metformin and it's effects on FFAs post meal....I suggest you start with the one from the diabetes journals/American diabetes association. I've read quite a lot of your posts in threads now over the coarse of the past year and there are several threads where you bash someone's belief or opinion..this is a place to express your thoughts, teach, or learn...I would suggest you be a little more open minded in the future and stop acting as though your some nutritional guru.

Every single time you're shown definitively to be incorrect, you simply change what you claim you're saying.

This is more than straw man arguments as it's a level of disingenuous posting that is, frankly, shocking.

[allisonivy89]

Ive been reading through the back-and-forth. One thing yet to be addressed are the different types of fats. Some are good, and some are bad. Same goes for carbs.

I following the Paleo way of life, therefor my suggestion to the original poster is weigh heavily on protein and GOOD fats (natural fats in meats, olive oil, coconut oil, nuts) and eliminating any vegetable oil high in polyunsaturated fatty acids and Omega-6, trans fats, seed based oils (corn oil, peanut oil, grape seal oil, soybean oil (check your labels!).

When it comes to carbohydrates, receive your sources from primarily vegetables and secondly fruits (this does not include legumes like corn, beans, peanuts, or any gluten (grains) "Excess glucose stimulates excess insulin release (and contributes to insulin reistance)").

Check out the links below to learn more about what I am talking about

Best of luck and congratulations on making your health a priority!

Sources:
paleodietlifestyle.com/the-importance-of-fat/
saragottfriedmd.com/2011/04/08/is-gluten-the-new-evil/#

[germaine07]

Ive been reading through the back-and-forth. One thing yet to be addressed are the different types of fats. Some are good, and some are bad. Same goes for carbs.

I following the Paleo way of life, therefor my suggestion to the original poster is weigh heavily on protein and GOOD fats (natural fats in meats, olive oil, coconut oil, nuts) and eliminating any vegetable oil high in polyunsaturated fatty acids and Omega-6, trans fats, seed based oils (corn oil, peanut oil, grape seal oil, soybean oil (check your labels!).

When it comes to carbohydrates, receive your sources from primarily vegetables and secondly fruits (this does not include legumes like corn, beans, peanuts, or any gluten (grains) "Excess glucose stimulates excess insulin release (and contributes to insulin reistance)").

Check out the links below to learn more about what I am talking about

Best of luck and congratulations on making your health a priority!

Sources:
paleodietlifestyle.com/the-importance-of-fat/
saragottfriedmd.com/2011/04/08/is-gluten-the-new-evil/#

Lol no....

[DeadliftDOMS]

Im not sure how anyone could be this stubborn. I think you may be lacking in basic reading comprehension. Everything i have said related to his question and my links are valid with several references that relate to what i said....Here!!!

From post #8
I wish I could post a piece of information I have from a nutrition book I have..it's all about what you've asked...it basically states that diabetes type 2 does not happen from a diet high in carbohydrates but rather a diet over loaded with fats proteins..It states that in the presence of high FFA concentrations, the body will favor their use as energy, decreasing glucose oxidation and glycogen synthesis and inhibiting glucose transport. The result of this is chronically elevated levels of blood sugar aka hyperglycemia. During hyperglycemia, insulin will also be elevated, leading to the conversion of the excess blood sugar to other products such as glycoproteins and fatty free acids. It then states that a healthy person would have to consume an extremely high percentage of simple carbohydrates( such as sucrose) and FAT, maintain a constant energy excess, or be over weight to have chronically elevated blood sugar...basically its saying that the majority of calories should come from carbs with the min requirment of protein and fat as many of us already do. Many doctors treat this metabolic disorder with a zone diet or something similar. My dad and a lot of my family are diabetic also.....

From post #10
That was a very interesting read..thankyou!....and while I respect your view and opinion there always will be some information out there that contradictes the next...I always viewed the cause of insulin resistance the same way and don't totally disagree still!...but I will always stick with the latest and up to date nutritional information as its always changing and new research is being done..I was a little wary of that article of yours seeing it was 6 years old...the information( not the article I posted) from my book was recent medical research from 2012 whether I or anybody agrees with it. While the book does agree that an overload of (simple sugars) while being in a calorie surplus can cause this metabolic disorder it also has research showing that more people become diabetic from diets that are overloaded with fats proteins while still having carbs also...most of there calories come from fats while still supplying efficient amounts of carbs keeping the body burning glucose instead of switching to FFA...so there for their still getting a large insuline response not only from carbs but also from fats and proteins and their taking in large amounts of fat calories at the same time...this all happening in a calorie surplus....they prescribe this with a diet compromised of complex carbs to stabilize blood sugar while keeping the amount of fat calories lower than carbs and supplying the Adequate Protein....look up the zone diet....like I mentioned most my family and some friends also are type 2 diabetic and this kind of diet is what all their doctors have prescribed them.

[germaine07]

Maybe you can pull some quotes from your links to show what exactly relates to the relevance of the glycemic index.

Im not sure how anyone could be this stubborn. I think you may be lacking in basic reading comprehension. Everything i have said related to his question and my links are valid with several references that relate to what i said....Here!!!

From post #8
I wish I could post a piece of information I have from a nutrition book I have..it's all about what you've asked...it basically states that diabetes type 2 does not happen from a diet high in carbohydrates but rather a diet over loaded with fats proteins..It states that in the presence of high FFA concentrations, the body will favor their use as energy, decreasing glucose oxidation and glycogen synthesis and inhibiting glucose transport. The result of this is chronically elevated levels of blood sugar aka hyperglycemia. During hyperglycemia, insulin will also be elevated, leading to the conversion of the excess blood sugar to other products such as glycoproteins and fatty free acids. It then states that a healthy person would have to consume an extremely high percentage of simple carbohydrates( such as sucrose) and FAT, maintain a constant energy excess, or be over weight to have chronically elevated blood sugar...basically its saying that the majority of calories should come from carbs with the min requirment of protein and fat as many of us already do. Many doctors treat this metabolic disorder with a zone diet or something similar. My dad and a lot of my family are diabetic also.....

From post #10
That was a very interesting read..thankyou!....and while I respect your view and opinion there always will be some information out there that contradictes the next...I always viewed the cause of insulin resistance the same way and don't totally disagree still!...but I will always stick with the latest and up to date nutritional information as its always changing and new research is being done..I was a little wary of that article of yours seeing it was 6 years old...the information( not the article I posted) from my book was recent medical research from 2012 whether I or anybody agrees with it. While the book does agree that an overload of (simple sugars) while being in a calorie surplus can cause this metabolic disorder it also has research showing that more people become diabetic from diets that are overloaded with fats proteins while still having carbs also...most of there calories come from fats while still supplying efficient amounts of carbs keeping the body burning glucose instead of switching to FFA...so there for their still getting a large insuline response not only from carbs but also from fats and proteins and their taking in large amounts of fat calories at the same time...this all happening in a calorie surplus....they prescribe this with a diet compromised of complex carbs to stabilize blood sugar while keeping the amount of fat calories lower than carbs and supplying the Adequate Protein....look up the zone diet....like I mentioned most my family and some friends also are type 2 diabetic and this kind of diet is what all their doctors have prescribed them.

That's not what I asked for, is irrelevant, and not what we are talking about.

Pull some quotes, from your references, showing where it says that GI of foods are relevant. Not a copy paste of your own text with some bolded. Either quote it or if you don't know how, simply eg:

From acjnblabla:

"Put your quote into italics"

[Browning4]

How did you come to that conclusion? GI is largely irrelevant.

So I should be paying more attention to glycemic load rather than the index? And would eating smaller meals more often help avoid insulin spikes? This is a confusing topic for me because of all the different info from people.

[WonderPug]

I following the Paleo way of life, therefor my suggestion to the original poster is weigh heavily on protein and GOOD fats (natural fats in meats, olive oil, coconut oil, nuts) and eliminating any vegetable oil high in polyunsaturated fatty acids and Omega-6, trans fats, seed based oils (corn oil, peanut oil, grape seal oil, soybean oil (check your labels!).

You say to consume "natural fats in meats" and to eliminate "trans fat". The "natural fats in meats" contain trans fats.

I could continue to demonstrate the logical fallacies in your position, but I doubt it's necessary.

So I should be paying more attention to glycemic load rather than the index? And would eating smaller meals more often help avoid insulin spikes? This is a confusing topic for me because of all the different info from people.

If you have a relevant metabolic disorder, yes. Otherwise, no.

By way of example, it's like saying "should I avoid peanuts?" If you are allergic, then yes. Otherwise, no.

[germaine07]

If you have a relevant metabolic disorder, yes. Otherwise, no.

By way of example, it's like saying "should I avoid peanuts?" If you are allergic, then yes. Otherwise, no.

This ^

Unless you actually have diabetes, you don't need to worry.

[Browning4]

Ok I understand what you're saying there. Would you agree that the most effective way to prevent T2D is a lifestyle with a good amount of physical activity? And as long as I'm eating no more than 500 cals above maintenance I am at a lower risk? As for the hereditary factor I may end up seeing a doctor or having my dad check my blood sugar once in a while.

[WonderPug]

Ok I understand what you're saying there. Would you agree that the most effective way to prevent T2D is a lifestyle with a good amount of physical activity? And as long as I'm eating no more than 500 cals above maintenance I am at a lower risk? As for the hereditary factor I may end up seeing a doctor or having my dad check my blood sugar once in a while.

Avoiding sloth and gluttony are the two most effective prophylactics.

[Browning4]

Avoiding sloth and gluttony are the two most effective prophylactics.

Ok. That shouldn't be a problem at all

[DeadliftDOMS]

You know what I'm tired of having to justify my thought and opinion...I was just bringing up some information that was saying there's other things to be looking at when it comes to insulin resistance than carbs alone since the OP seemed hung up on the idea...theres a large contributing factor and that is FFAs...i was told my view basically wasnt worth squat, so ive found links to back them up...I also never said GI had anything to do with anything!!..that wasnt my point..although I did say the book stated it..not me!..that's why in post 8 i keep saying It states this, it states that!. MY point!! was FFAs need a more indepth look when talking about insulin resistance. I was sharing information in hopes someone would say HEY!!.that interesting I didn't know that, not start an argument and call me out! If you need scientific information backing this up then read the links I've posted yourselves and expand your knowledge...and stop trailing in the foot steps of wonder bread!....I'm out!

[germaine07]

I also never said GI had anything to do with anything!!..that wasnt my point..

Then what was all this about?

It would be, as GI is utterly useless as a measure sans dose and context of total meal composition.

Just for you my friend!...several articals including peer viewed from your website and several others...I even included one from a guy that wrote his own artical and previously thought he had all the answers as well...at this point I highly doubt you would ever admit to being wrong but recommend you at the very least read all these articals/journals and there's plenty more out there...all these articals are up to date.


http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org...0/10/2441.full

(your favorite website written a year after that article you gave me)

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/88/3/638.full

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/96/2/438.abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22191431

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0030782

(this one is more about metformin and how is decrease circulating FFA post meal)
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jnume/2012/394623/

(just some guy that made a blog yet it's still interesting to read)
http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2011/...ental.html?m=1

How did you come to that conclusion? GI is largely irrelevant.

See post #34

[DeadliftDOMS]

Then what was all this about?

Then what was all this about?

Then what was all this about?

Holy s$&t man!....READ THE POSTS!!!....Ive heard of selective hearing before....this must be called selective reading if I had to think of a problem for the posters reading posts..there is absolutly no possible way the both of you are taking the time to read my posts or my links...as I just said in multiple posts...my post was to point out that while concerning insulin resistance FFAs(fatty free acids) need to have a closer look into...and that the common ussumption that carbohydrates are the PRIMARY problem is not nessasarily true....that's it!...simple as can be...if no one can understand this at this point your all on your own....signing out for good from this largely misunderstood topic.

[AlwaysTryin]

signing out for good from this largely misunderstood topic.

Finally

[germaine07]

my post was to point out that while concerning insulin resistance FFAs(fatty free acids) need to have a closer look into...and that the common ussumption that carbohydrates are the PRIMARY problem is not nessasarily true....that's it!...

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the glycemic index.... Are you seriously this ignorant?

Adding to your reds.