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  1. #91
    *Hail to Pitt* 1JFS3's Avatar
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    ITT I am pulling:

    A "clean" diet is not neccesarily healthy-you can eat nothing but chicken, brown rice, nuts, etc. and still be unhealthy in terms of micronutrients.
    People, especially those looking to enhance their physique, put more emphasis on macronutrient intake and not micronutrient intake, and would rather fulfill calorie needs while disregarding vitamins/minerals.
    A McDonald's sandwich is "dirty" yet contains more micronutrients than "clean" chicken and brown rice. (This goes along with my above statement and also shows how untrue the terms clean and dirty are. This does not mean go about fulfilling your dietary needs with McDonald's because other health factors should be observed (satiety, processing, preservatives, etc.)
    Essentially a Pug quote, but overall, one should consume most of their dietary needs from wholesome, unprocessed foods but can practice flexibilty in their diet and therefore enjoy anything in their daily foods.

    Thread to be a sticky? Say aye!

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  2. #92
    Registered User Lougia's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FightThePoW3R View Post
    Assuming you get the same amount of proteins/fats/carbohydrates in a day, what is the difference between eating processed "dirty" foods and "clean" foods. Nutrients? What difference does that make? Will I feel more energy throughout the day? Will I grow taller? Will my hair look healthier? Is there any scientific evidence backing up any claims you might argue before you even consider proposing them?
    Personally I feel fuller after eating so called clean food then junk food.
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  3. #93
    Universal Nutrition naturalguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Shredthetics View Post
    This post is so ignorant it's sad.
    HEALTH
    It's so simple I cannot fathom how people don't understand this.
    When clean say they eat "clean" they typically mean they eat HEALTHY.

    Go ahead and get your 450 carbs a day from cake & candy.
    I'll get mine from veggies, whole grains, fruits ect.

    If we looked the same big deal, I'll feel better and live longer.
    It's a pretty simple concept ^^^
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  4. #94
    Chasing cats since 1967 WonderPug's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by naturalguy View Post
    It's a pretty simple concept ^^^
    Really?

    If you're being truthful with your posts you'll be able to anser the follow:

    Is a highly proceed food containing the following a "clean" or "dirty" food:

    Maltodextrin, Fructose, Dextrose, Non-Fat Dry Milk, Caseinate, Whey Protein, Natural And Artificial Flavors, Cocoa, Sunflower Oil, Cellulose, Monoglycerides, Dipotassium Phosphate, Silicon Dioxide, Tocopherols, Dicalcium Phosphate, Potassium Phosphate, Potassium Sulfate, Ascorbic Acid, DL-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate, Niacinamide, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Pyridoxine HCL, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Cholecalciferol, Folic Acid, Cyanocobalamin, Magnesium Oxide, Zinc Oxide.
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  5. #95
    cheeky manlet alejandroPH's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by darkcloudcover View Post

    A little moderation goes a long ways.
    this

    Originally Posted by escobarstatus View Post
    perhaps people are concerned with their health....life is bigger than body building....nobody can argue that McDonald's is as healthy as brown rice & chicken just because your hitting your macros with fast food......
    you post that on a site whose name is "bodybuilding". lolwut


    also, where is OP now ? haven't seen him ITT since graffiti called him out to answer to his post re scientific articles (post #29)
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  6. #96
    Registered User dbp's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Shredthetics View Post
    This post is so ignorant it's sad.
    HEALTH
    It's so simple I cannot fathom how people don't understand this.
    When clean say they eat "clean" they typically mean they eat HEALTHY.

    Go ahead and get your 450 carbs a day from cake & candy.
    I'll get mine from veggies, whole grains, fruits ect.

    If we looked the same big deal, I'll feel better and live longer.

    Says who exactly? Seriously, how could you possibly be inside my body to know that you are guaranteed to feel better and live longer than me based on diet choices?

    I'm all for promoting healthy eating, but this kind of thinking irks me. At the end of the day, all "clean" eating does is up your chances of living longer. It's far from a guarantee. It seems like everyone wants to believe that we have total control of our health and that we're entitled to longevity because of our diet choices, but we aren't and we never will be.

    I appreciate people wanting to be cautious and avoid taking chances with their health, but don't huff and puff and act like it's your privilege to outlive someone who eats differently than you do. Tons of people abuse the crap out of their bodies and live very long lives. Genetics play a big role in long term health too.

    I've been on both sides of the coin...fast food diets and eating clean. I can't really echo the thoughts of feeling way better eating clean. I poop better, but that's about it.
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  7. #97
    Universal Nutrition naturalguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dbp View Post
    Says who exactly? Seriously, how could you possibly be inside my body to know that you are guaranteed to feel better and live longer than me based on diet choices?

    I'm all for promoting healthy eating, but this kind of thinking irks me. At the end of the day, all "clean" eating does is up your chances of living longer. It's far from a guarantee. It seems like everyone wants to believe that we have total control of our health and that we're entitled to longevity because of our diet choices, but we aren't and we never will be.

    I appreciate people wanting to be cautious and avoid taking chances with their health, but don't huff and puff and act like it's your privilege to outlive someone who eats differently than you do. Tons of people abuse the crap out of their bodies and live very long lives. Genetics play a big role in long term health too.

    I've been on both sides of the coin...fast food diets and eating clean. I can't really echo the thoughts of feeling way better eating clean. I poop better, but that's about it.
    It's not about living longer, it's about quality of life and feeling better, at least in my opinion.
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  8. #98
    Registered User Icicle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by naturalguy View Post
    It's not about living longer, it's about quality of life and feeling better, at least in my opinion.
    That's entirely subjective. I'll have a better quality of life not stressing about having a chocolate souffle for desert after dinner than worrying about all my carb sources coming from fruits, vegetables, and whole grains
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  9. #99
    Never Be Satisfied JohnRainbo's Avatar
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    I'm one of those idiots that eats clean, and with what I've been able to achieve in doing so, I'm sticking with it. Unless one of you is more ripped than myself that can swear you eat pizza every day and get away with it, I will keep on doing what I'm doing... just in case.
    "You can always be thinner... look better"
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  10. #100
    Registered User Naeem11's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JohnRainbo View Post
    I'm one of those idiots that eats clean, and with what I've been able to achieve in doing so, I'm sticking with it. Unless one of you is more ripped than myself that can swear you eat pizza every day and get away with it, I will keep on doing what I'm doing... just in case.
    Google search Alberto Nunez, he's a 3dmj coach. He ate pop-tarts not pizza.

    Also, I would ask you to list the ingredients that go into a pizza and you would see there is nothing unhealthy about a pizza. It's a great source of carbs/protein/fat and if loaded with veggies has a good amount of micronutrients.

    EDIT: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...0833021&page=1

    2nd edit: Oops was mistaken.....he did in fact eat pizza, scroll down in the thread lol.
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  11. #101
    Registered User rand18m's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dbp View Post
    Says who exactly? Seriously, how could you possibly be inside my body to know that you are guaranteed to feel better and live longer than me based on diet choices?

    I'm all for promoting healthy eating, but this kind of thinking irks me. At the end of the day, all "clean" eating does is up your chances of living longer. It's far from a guarantee. It seems like everyone wants to believe that we have total control of our health and that we're entitled to longevity because of our diet choices, but we aren't and we never will be.

    I appreciate people wanting to be cautious and avoid taking chances with their health, but don't huff and puff and act like it's your privilege to outlive someone who eats differently than you do. Tons of people abuse the crap out of their bodies and live very long lives. Genetics play a big role in long term health too.

    I've been on both sides of the coin...fast food diets and eating clean. I can't really echo the thoughts of feeling way better eating clean. I poop better, but that's about it.

    This ^^^ X 10!!! Well said young man!!
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  12. #102
    Registered frog Peace94's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Shredthetics View Post
    This post is so ignorant it's sad.
    HEALTH
    It's so simple I cannot fathom how people don't understand this.
    When clean say they eat "clean" they typically mean they eat HEALTHY.

    Go ahead and get your 450 carbs a day from cake & candy.
    I'll get mine from veggies, whole grains, fruits ect.

    If we looked the same big deal, I'll feel better and live longer.
    This guy gets it. Healthy foods (such as vegetables) will not clog your arteries and make you more prone to heart attacks. Unhealthy foods (such as a big mac) will clog dem arteries and prematurely kill you.

    All of you arguing about definitions of what is 'healthy' and making such a fuss blow my mind... It is easy to see what comes into the healthy and unhealthy categories of foods. My jimmies are xtra thoroughly rustled right now. If you eat healthy foods you will, like the guy I'm quoting said, feel good and live longer. How is that so difficult to comprehend?

    So OP, that is why people are obsessed with so called 'clean' foods.
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  13. #103
    Registered frog Peace94's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dbp View Post
    I'm all for promoting healthy eating, but this kind of thinking irks me. At the end of the day, all "clean" eating does is up your chances of living longer. It's far from a guarantee. It seems like everyone wants to believe that we have total control of our health and that we're entitled to longevity because of our diet choices, but we aren't and we never will be.
    Could not disagree more with what you said.. You have so much control over your health. Choosing what you eat, whether to drink, take drugs, exercise. All these things play a factor in how long you live. So saying we do not have control over our health is ridiculous.
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  14. #104
    Registered User rand18m's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Peace94 View Post
    This guy gets it. Healthy foods (such as vegetables) will not clog your arteries and make you more prone to heart attacks. Unhealthy foods (such as a big mac) will clog dem arteries and prematurely kill you.

    All of you arguing about definitions of what is 'healthy' and making such a fuss blow my mind... It is easy to see what comes into the healthy and unhealthy categories of foods. My jimmies are xtra thoroughly rustled right now. If you eat healthy foods you will, like the guy I'm quoting said, feel good and live longer. How is that so difficult to comprehend?

    So OP, that is why people are obsessed with so called 'clean' foods.
    So basically you prefer to eat a very low fat diet!

    If that works for you then fine, but you have no strong evidence that it is any healthier than any other diet.

    It's not about discussing a healthy or unhealthy diet, but it is reasonable to discuss healthy or unhealthy lifestyles. Eating certain foods do not make one healthy. I hate to break it to everyone but it's more complicated than that!
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  15. #105
    Universal Nutrition naturalguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Icicle View Post
    That's entirely subjective. I'll have a better quality of life not stressing about having a chocolate souffle for desert after dinner than worrying about all my carb sources coming from fruits, vegetables, and whole grains
    You shouldn't stress it. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. You can eat "clean" the majority of time and enjoy life as well.
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  16. #106
    Registered User hamworld05's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Naeem11 View Post
    Google search Alberto Nunez, he's a 3dmj coach. He ate pop-tarts not pizza.

    Also, I would ask you to list the ingredients that go into a pizza and you would see there is nothing unhealthy about a pizza. It's a great source of carbs/protein/fat and if loaded with veggies has a good amount of micronutrients.

    EDIT: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...0833021&page=1

    2nd edit: Oops was mistaken.....he did in fact eat pizza, scroll down in the thread lol.
    Obese person: "I thought pizza was healthy."

    It's weird how IIFYM people always preach cardio and squats and deadlifts.

    IIFYM people also preach high volume training. Makes it easier to justify a slice of pizza when you burn a ridiculous amount of calories via lifestyle...
    Last edited by hamworld05; 01-05-2013 at 08:21 PM.
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  17. #107
    Registered User dbp's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Peace94 View Post
    Could not disagree more with what you said.. You have so much control over your health. Choosing what you eat, whether to drink, take drugs, exercise. All these things play a factor in how long you live. So saying we do not have control over our health is ridiculous.
    I said "total control", not "control".

    Words mean things.
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    Some processed foods have been linked to increased growth of cancer cells. There's a book called "Anti Cancer" that discusses it, and it is becoming more and more accepted. Eating too much sugar can also increase risk of cancer. In general, I think it depends less on the clean/dirty dichotomy--no one is saying clean=good, dirty=bad automatically. Nor is there an automatic correlation between eating foods that increase the risk of cancer cell growth and actually dying of cancer--it depends on the rest of your diet, how much you exercise, as well as other variables such as how much stress you have.

    Otherwise, it is up to the individual to decide what he/she considers desirable. Some people don't mind having less energy or risking heart disease due to their diet and just want to live it up, and that's fine. No one should be forcing a diet on anyone, but nonetheless I think it is useful to be aware of the links between certain foods and certain illnesses.
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  19. #109
    Registered User rand18m's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sam2903 View Post
    Some processed foods have been linked to increased growth of cancer cells. There's a book called "Anti Cancer" that discusses it, and it is becoming more and more accepted. Eating too much sugar can also increase risk of cancer. In general, I think it depends less on the clean/dirty dichotomy--no one is saying clean=good, dirty=bad automatically. Nor is there an automatic correlation between eating foods that increase the risk of cancer cell growth and actually dying of cancer--it depends on the rest of your diet, how much you exercise, as well as other variables such as how much stress you have.

    Otherwise, it is up to the individual to decide what he/she considers desirable. Some people don't mind having less energy or risking heart disease due to their diet and just want to live it up, and that's fine. No one should be forcing a diet on anyone, but nonetheless I think it is useful to be aware of the links between certain foods and certain illnesses.
    If only those links were truly known, which they are not!

    However, several parts of your post are common sensical and I can agree with.
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    Originally Posted by dbp View Post
    I said "total control", not "control".

    Words mean things.
    You have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours.

    Originally Posted by naturalguy View Post
    You shouldn't stress it. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. You can eat "clean" the majority of time and enjoy life as well.
    Enjoying a diverse diet makes good sense.


    Originally Posted by JohnRainbo View Post
    I'm one of those idiots that eats clean, and with what I've been able to achieve in doing so, I'm sticking with it. Unless one of you is more ripped than myself that can swear you eat pizza every day and get away with it, I will keep on doing what I'm doing... just in case.
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  21. #111
    cheeky manlet alejandroPH's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JohnRainbo View Post
    I'm one of those idiots that eats clean, and with what I've been able to achieve in doing so, I'm sticking with it. Unless one of you is more ripped than myself that can swear you eat pizza every day and get away with it, I will keep on doing what I'm doing... just in case.
    didn't josef rakich (sp?) say that he was eating mcdonald's everyday while on a cut ? he looks really good, if not as good/better than you

    not sure about this though, my mind is kind of fuzzy but he has an "ask me anything on nutrition" thread somewhere i remember him saying it there
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  22. #112
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    Since I'm cutting on ~2000 cals, if I eat dirty I'll be starving for the rest of the day. I can eat a sh!tload more clean foods than a processed burger from wendys that would consume half my fat/carbs for the day and leave me hungry as hell while already eating 2k cals.

    edit: if I was bulking, I'd be eating dirty as hell though
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  23. #113
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    I find that eating clean does benefit you better:
    1. In the future, when you may or may not give up bb do to other committments, your body will not be in a cycle of constantly eating processed crap.
    2. Clean foods are generally lower in calories so if you are a big eater like me, it allows you to consume more during the day.
    3. Clean foods have alot more nutrients than dirty foods. For example, vitamins found in fruit (e.g. potassium found in a bannana) which would not generally be found in other dirty sources of carbs.
    4. Cheaper
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    Originally Posted by rand18m View Post
    Well perhaps we should examine the nutrition data on the foods you just mentioned. For McDonalds I'll pick the venerable Big Mac!

    Calories......Fat.......Protein.......Carb......Fi ber.......Cholesterol......Vit A.......Vit C.......Calcium........Iron

    Big Mac

    550............29..........25............46....... ..3...............75...............4%DV.......2%.. .......25%..........25%


    Chicken Breast--1/2 breast

    130.............1...........27............0....... ...0...............68.................0........... ..2............1..............5

    Brown Rice 1cup long grain cooked

    216.............2...........5............45....... ...4...............0...................0.......... ...0............2..............5


    Now you look those over, tell me which food comparing the Big Mac to a chicken breast and 1 cup of brown rice is a more complete meal??

    Do you now see the silliness in labeling foods by what you thinkg you know about a particular food or food group?

    You are engaging in stereotyping food based on what you hear anecdotally!
    I find it hilarious that nobody quoted this post. maybe because they got served and now feel like an idiot.

    Everyone's main argument in the clean vs dirty food seems to to be that "clean" foods have micronutrient.
    Now... let's just say that the people eating "dirty" foods were taking multi's, fish oil pills, and any other micronutrient supplement so that they were on the same level as the other guys. The person eating "clean" foods would have no benefits over the other guy in terms of bodybuilding.
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  25. #115
    NattyShredsFTW Shredthetics's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dbp View Post
    Says who exactly? Seriously, how could you possibly be inside my body to know that you are guaranteed to feel better and live longer than me based on diet choices?
    I'm not inside your body so I will not know how you feel.
    Inside my body, I feel like **** when I eat like ****.
    I feel healthy when I eat healthy.
    Plain and simple.
    You are what you eat imo.

    I rather walk around feeling good then be groggy and bloated full of crap.


    Another note,
    I train harder when I feel better.
    So there are other consequences to eating like crap such as your training suffering.



    I am by no means a IIFIYM/junk-overly processed food nazi, just a strong advocate of a better sense of well being coming from eating healthier, or "cleaner".
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  26. #116
    Registered User hamworld05's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Shredthetics View Post
    I'm not inside your body so I will not know how you feel.
    Inside my body, I feel like **** when I eat like ****.
    I feel healthy when I eat healthy.
    Plain and simple.
    You are what you eat imo.

    I rather walk around feeling good then be groggy and bloated full of crap.


    Another note,
    I train harder when I feel better.
    So there are other consequences to eating like crap such as your training suffering.



    I am by no means a IIFIYM/junk-overly processed food nazi, just a strong advocate of a better sense of well being coming from eating healthier, or "cleaner".
    Eh. It's much easier to increase performance eating junk food than it is to improve body composition eating junk food in my experience.
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    Originally Posted by FightThePoW3R View Post
    Assuming you get the same amount of proteins/fats/carbohydrates in a day, what is the difference between eating processed "dirty" foods and "clean" foods. Nutrients? What difference does that make? Will I feel more energy throughout the day? Will I grow taller? Will my hair look healthier? Is there any scientific evidence backing up any claims you might argue before you even consider proposing them?
    It's a freakin fad, bro. I used to buy into that crap. ate 3 - 6 meals a day, some full some snack sized and ate a balanced meal with lean meats and tons of veggies. I'm a pretty thick guy and my body loves to store fat. I could not get rid of stubborn spots especially my love handles and lower stomach. I hated my life. I love pizzas and donuts and I had to eliminate this due to the "Health" fad. Got all my protein from food as well and did not consume protein shakes.

    I decided to try something different. I decided to have one meal a day of nothing but food that I love, most of which are deserts and pizzas. Sometimes I would eat nothing but 6-8 slices of mousse cake, cheese cake, or pecan pies. I also started taking whey isolate supplements. Man was I in the best shape of my life after three months. I proved to myself that I can eat whatever I want and still be in extremely good shape. My body fat was the lowest its ever been and lean mass was the heaviest its ever been. Also my high blood pressure dropped from the 140s to 118 range (systolic pressure). All by eating foods high in fat and simple carbs (limiting myself to one meal a day).
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    Originally Posted by Peace94 View Post
    This guy gets it. Healthy foods (such as vegetables) will not clog your arteries and make you more prone to heart attacks. Unhealthy foods (such as a big mac) will clog dem arteries and prematurely kill you.

    All of you arguing about definitions of what is 'healthy' and making such a fuss blow my mind... It is easy to see what comes into the healthy and unhealthy categories of foods. My jimmies are xtra thoroughly rustled right now. If you eat healthy foods you will, like the guy I'm quoting said, feel good and live longer. How is that so difficult to comprehend?

    So OP, that is why people are obsessed with so called 'clean' foods.
    That's unfortunately not true. There are only a few things that are actually proven to be directly detriminal to cardiovascular health: trans fat, an excess in PURE fructose (you need to eat 2000 calories worth of ice cream to get that) and food that is actually toxic. Eating more saturated fat compared to other monounsaturated fat does not raise cholesterol or increase risk of cardiovascular disease, and sodium is irrelevant. It actually raises levels of the high density lipoprotein that UNCLOGS arteries. Unless you know the science behind these things, please don't spread misinformation.

    We only need a certain amount of micronutrients and any extra is just pissed out. So our bodies could care less if we ate 1000 times the amount of vitamin c we need, we won't magically become healthier from it. The macronutrients in food are all seen as equal by our body and affect our body composition that way.

    And there's no point in saying "processing makes it bad for us". Almost all food in this day and age is coated in chemicals and pesticides, and mass produced. Chicken is produced on an assembly line, veggies are grown in labs and food's genetically modified to make it easier to produce.

    Eat whatever makes you feel good/happy and believe whatever you want to believe, it's just that if you want your views to be taken seriously by other people, please use science and reasoning.
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  29. #119
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    Originally Posted by Shredthetics View Post
    I'm not inside your body so I will not know how you feel.
    Inside my body, I feel like **** when I eat like ****.
    I feel healthy when I eat healthy.
    Plain and simple.
    You are what you eat imo.

    I rather walk around feeling good then be groggy and bloated full of crap.


    Another note,
    I train harder when I feel better.
    So there are other consequences to eating like crap such as your training suffering.



    I am by no means a IIFIYM/junk-overly processed food nazi, just a strong advocate of a better sense of well being coming from eating healthier, or "cleaner".
    Another common sense post. Agreed on the above ^^^^^^^ if you feel better and perform better in the gym that will affect your body composition. It's more than just macros & micros. You are smart to listen to your body and how you feel after eating certain foods.
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  30. #120
    Chasing cats since 1967 WonderPug's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by benjobb View Post
    There are only a few things that are actually proven to be directly detriminal to cardiovascular health: trans fat, an excess in PURE fructose (you need to eat 2000 calories worth of ice cream to get that) and food that is actually toxic.
    Knowing the actual nutritional content in food would shock the "clean" food folks.

    For example, many folks in this thread will say "ice cream" is "dirty" and fresh blueberries are "clean" and some will defend that position by talking about their belief that fructose is unhealthy and how, obviously, a "dirty" food like "ice cream" has lots of that "unhealthy" fructose where "natural", "clean", whole foods don't have that bad stuff like "fructose".

    The truth is very different:

    2,000 calories of premium ice cream usually contain ~2 grams of fructose. Source.

    2,000 calories of fresh blueberries contain ~174 grams of fructose. Source.
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