A Lifter's Guide To LP

[SdvsB]

will do thanks for feedback

Were you lifting bare foot bro?

[tazui1982]

Were you lifting bare foot bro?

Yes i was man, the floor at my gym is covered with thick very soft nylon carpet making walking woobling abit so i always have to squat barefoot.

[SdvsB]

Yes i was man, the floor at my gym is covered with thick very soft nylon carpet making walking woobling abit so i always have to squat barefoot.

Ahhh, gotcha, just wondering, like mentioned before, there is some improvements to do on your lifts but overall I thought they looked good, your on the right track and look better than alot of guys I see at the gym. Speaking of, it's the new year now, greatttt, my gyms gonna be packed for a week with fatties hogging equipment with piss poor form.

[tazui1982]

Could someone enlighten me, I took measurements yesterday and found out that my arm shrunk by 2 cm, it might have been the fat because my BF went down 2% and muscle mass (mainly in the legs of course) went up 2kg. My hips, waist, thighs went up 4-5 cm, calf up 1cm, my chest and shoulder unchanged. I've been following SS with adding chins and pullups into the program, could someone pls tell me what happened to my arms

[DetMatthews]

Your arm shrunk by .8 inches? You sure you didn't measure it wrong? Either the first time or now? That seems like a huge decrease depending on what kind of time frame we're looking at. I'd say it's probably at least partially because of fat, but you don't look that fat. Worst comes to worst, add in some light curls every other workout.

[tazui1982]

Your arm shrunk by .8 inches? You sure you didn't measure it wrong? Either the first time or now? That seems like a huge decrease depending on what kind of time frame we're looking at. I'd say it's probably at least partially because of fat, but you don't look that fat. Worst comes to worst, add in some light curls every other workout.

Measured both arms twice relaxed, so no not wrong this time but you are right might be the first time was off cause looking in the mirror I still see the same arms.

[GinjaNinja85]

Read the entire OP from start to finish. Damn Ginja, it's really awesome of you to spare so much time to share your insights on linear progression instead of just promote a "magic pill" or workout as the solution to all beginners training programming problems. Good work man!

Thanks alot, it did take a while to put together! I think the road from beginner to intermediate is often over simplified. Programming needs change very quickly as a beginner and while ultimately, time under the bar and diet/rest drive progress, you can save alot of time with good programming knowledge.

Measured both arms twice relaxed, so no not wrong this time but you are right might be the first time was off cause looking in the mirror I still see the same arms.

It's possible you lost arm size if you switched from a high volume routine focused on arms as your arms become 'swole' from all the work. I lost half an inch within a month of starting SS. Before that I was doing about 18 sets on just arms so they were in a state of 'swole'.

It doesn't matter. You can specialise arms much later. For now I'd concentrate on getting those core lifts up and establishing good eating habits as this is what will get you strong and jacked in the long run.

[tazui1982]

Thanks alot, it did take a while to put together! I think the road from beginner to intermediate is often over simplified. Programming needs change very quickly as a beginner and while ultimately, time under the bar and diet/rest drive progress, you can save alot of time with good programming knowledge.



It's possible you lost arm size if you switched from a high volume routine focused on arms as your arms become 'swole' from all the work. I lost half an inch within a month of starting SS. Before that I was doing about 18 sets on just arms so they were in a state of 'swole'.

It doesn't matter. You can specialise arms much later. For now I'd concentrate on getting those core lifts up and establishing good eating habits as this is what will get you strong and jacked in the long run.

Its cool i was kinda half glad half puzzled cause my thighs went up 3 cm. I prefer overall development so ill give your modified ss version a go for about 12 weeks and see how we go. Ill keep posting here.

[GinjaNinja85]

Its cool i was kinda half glad half puzzled cause my thighs went up 3 cm. I prefer overall development so ill give your modified ss version a go for about 12 weeks and see how we go. Ill keep posting here.

Yeah, legs just explode from squatting 3x a week

By all means, use the modifications I've written. They turned out to be my best formula. I'd follow the instructions as closely as possible on transitioning each of the lifts after they stall.

Remember, if you CAN deadlift every other workout and squat 3x a week, it makes no sense to reduce them to 1x and 2x a week respectively. Train each lift as often as your recovery allows. It's something you need to observe and manage yourself.

It'd be good to hear back from you about how it goes. Perhaps we'll see how different we respond and what other lessons you might have learned. I'm subbed to this so check in whenever and if I can offer any help, I'll always post!

[GinjaNinja85]

Gonna keep this bumped for a bit so everyone gets a chance to see this.

[Adrian77]

A lot of people could learn important lessons from this post. And not just noobs either!

Thanks for sharing!

ps agree that OP's experience is more "optimal" than some little twerp with a big mouth! Hahaha.

[rdferguson]

I'm glad you mentioned that no linear progression program is a magic pill, nor is any program. A lot of guys seem to think of certain programs as magic pills, which is nonsense.

[dk240t]

Nice work, should be stickied.

Film every workset you can, post the vids in a log, get people to watch them and help. But yeah, only work on 1 or 2 form cues at a time. And look at other people who have done Starting Strength and similar LP schemes - look at their logs and how they progressed. Microloading is key, quit complaining about the cost and spend 20 dollars on washers from McMaster Carr. And definitely get a belt. For every person who keeps progressing without a belt (see above), there are probably 50 people that have their progress slowed significantly by not having a belt.

[GinjaNinja85]

Nice work, should be stickied.

Film every workset you can, post the vids in a log, get people to watch them and help. But yeah, only work on 1 or 2 form cues at a time. And look at other people who have done Starting Strength and similar LP schemes - look at their logs and how they progressed. Microloading is key, quit complaining about the cost and spend 20 dollars on washers from McMaster Carr. And definitely get a belt. For every person who keeps progressing without a belt (see above), there are probably 50 people that have their progress slowed significantly by not having a belt.

Everybody should listen to this guy! I followed his SS log and his progress was incredible.

Thank you dk240t.

[tazui1982]

On a side note: I was washing bottles for my toddlers when my wife made a remark that my back and arms were getting much bigger Nice to hear from the wife, I'll try shirtless at the office and see what other women say. To make a point SS does work and I think modified SS like this one or Babylover's version works wonders much better than some cool 50 cent's fitness routines for ganstas.

[dk240t]

My wife compliments the improvement to my arms on Starting Strength. From bench, overhead press, and pull-ups/chin-ups presumably, because I very rarely do curls or any direct arm exercise. I added 30lbs in a year on Starting Strength, and I definitely did not get significantly fatter...I'd estimate I held my BF% constant or maybe went up a couple points, but definitely added 2/3-3/4 lean body mass.

[pyaarawala]

Great read, Ginja! Looks like you spent quite some time writing that up and I'm sure it'll help plenty of people including myself. Especially the part about the belt. I'll PM you showing you some belts that I'm looking at. Inzer is $200+ over here, imported.

[GinjaNinja85]

Great read, Ginja! Looks like you spent quite some time writing that up and I'm sure it'll help plenty of people including myself. Especially the part about the belt. I'll PM you showing you some belts that I'm looking at. Inzer is $200+ over here, imported.

Saw it in your log man. Get the middle one I think. $200 is too much. $60 is well worth it. It'll probably just take a little longer to break in.

[HunterMC6]

Very very well articulated post. There is so much good info in here and I believe a lot of people will over look it sue to the length of the post. I follow Ginja's journal and can attest to his progress as I have seen a lot of his workout videos. Guess I have to look into a belt and some quality lifting shoes now. Damn back is all ****ed up after last session and I have been getting stuck between 200 ans 215 a lot on squats.

I think something that is over looked it stretching and warmups. Stretching should done daily IMO it will help so much with form and injury prevention. Foam rolling has been a huge help for many of the guys that have hit huge numbers on beginner/intermediate routines. I am going to look more into stretching and foam rolling and see if I can post some quality info for this thread.

[Sinaku5]

Great post Ginja!

Few things I'd say, and this is my own personal take on things.

Resetting on any program is a great tool, especially a novice program. I know that you said that you wouldn't recommend resetting on the proposed program, but resetting should allow a novice to push a bit further and gain a few more lbs on his lifts, AND work on their form before stalling again. Only one or two resets should be necessary for a novice IMO, but I think they are useful.

I agree with you on finding what works for you on the lifts - me and you for example squat two completely different ways with similar results.

In regards to a thumbless grip on OHP, IK that many advanced lifters use it and find that it helps track the bar path better, but I wouldn't recommend it for a novice. I'd rather they start out full grip if for no other reason than safety, but this is coming from someone who has never used a thumbless grip, so take it for what its worth. But again this goes back to your whole point of "do what works for you after analyzing the points/benefits/detriments of each "way" of lifting.

To all novices - In regards to videotaping your workouts and posting them here - DO IT! Nothing will help you stay safer and progress faster IMO.

And in regards to your proposed program - I like it

[GinjaNinja85]

Very very well articulated post. There is so much good info in here and I believe a lot of people will over look it sue to the length of the post. I follow Ginja's journal and can attest to his progress as I have seen a lot of his workout videos. Guess I have to look into a belt and some quality lifting shoes now. Damn back is all ****ed up after last session and I have been getting stuck between 200 ans 215 a lot on squats.

I think something that is over looked it stretching and warmups. Stretching should done daily IMO it will help so much with form and injury prevention. Foam rolling has been a huge help for many of the guys that have hit huge numbers on beginner/intermediate routines. I am going to look more into stretching and foam rolling and see if I can post some quality info for this thread.

That would be great actually. Foam rolling and stretching is something I neglected but it would be a really good addition here. Get well soon man.

Great post Ginja!

Few things I'd say, and this is my own personal take on things.

Resetting on any program is a great tool, especially a novice program. I know that you said that you wouldn't recommend resetting on the proposed program, but resetting should allow a novice to push a bit further and gain a few more lbs on his lifts, AND work on their form before stalling again. Only one or two resets should be necessary for a novice IMO, but I think they are useful.

Let me clarify this. I said you "shouldn't need a reset due to accumulated fatigue" on the final program I posted but that I feel you should still reset if you fail the weight twice. I completely agree with you on only needing two genuine resets before advancing to weekly programming.

I agree with you on finding what works for you on the lifts - me and you for example squat two completely different ways with similar results.

In regards to a thumbless grip on OHP, IK that many advanced lifters use it and find that it helps track the bar path better, but I wouldn't recommend it for a novice. I'd rather they start out full grip if for no other reason than safety, but this is coming from someone who has never used a thumbless grip, so take it for what its worth. But again this goes back to your whole point of "do what works for you after analyzing the points/benefits/detriments of each "way" of lifting.

To all novices - In regards to videotaping your workouts and posting them here - DO IT! Nothing will help you stay safer and progress faster IMO.

And in regards to your proposed program - I like it

Thanks fella. Vids FTW

[tazui1982]

Should I panic? I used the BF monitor at the gym and got 80.2kg (172cm height) body weight, 39.3kg muscles and 15.8% BF, which is a slight change cause i was at 20% BF 6 weeks ago when I started SS and put on good 3kgs of muscle mass. I remember Rip said the healthy SS beginner should be at 18-20%, should I tweak my diet and eat more carb and fat? My wife said nothing's changed I look exactly the same.

I squat yesterday and it was a breeze, I watched the Russians on youtube and they basically "exploded" at the end of the squat, I imitated it and it was insane I could feel my body was reacting well making a few last reps so much easier, maybe it was noob gain effect I will shoot video next time and upload it on youtube.

Last question, the doctor's prescription is 1x5 for deadlifts but since I will skip squat and do deadlift tomorrow should I got for 3 warm ups and 3 working sets? Something like this: 45x10, 90x5, 135x5 than 232x3x5?

[GinjaNinja85]

Should I panic? I used the BF monitor at the gym and got 80.2kg (172cm height) body weight, 39.3kg muscles and 15.8% BF, which is a slight change cause i was at 20% BF 6 weeks ago when I started SS and put on good 3kgs of muscle mass. I remember Rip said the healthy SS beginner should be at 18-20%, should I tweak my diet and eat more carb and fat? My wife said nothing's changed I look exactly the same.

I'd listen to your wife. That body fat monitor sounds well off. Ignore it and start measuring your waist for a more accurate read on bf changes.

I squat yesterday and it was a breeze, I watched the Russians on youtube and they basically "exploded" at the end of the squat, I imitated it and it was insane I could feel my body was reacting well making a few last reps so much easier, maybe it was noob gain effect I will shoot video next time and upload it on youtube.

I don't think I understood any of this?!

Last question, the doctor's prescription is 1x5 for deadlifts but since I will skip squat and do deadlift tomorrow should I got for 3 warm ups and 3 working sets? Something like this: 45x10, 90x5, 135x5 than 232x3x5?

No. I assume you're using the template I posted so the deadlift is to be trained at 1x5+, once a week regardless of your other lifts. Just do the usual warm ups so you're ready for your work set but not fatigued. You'll need a couple of extra light sets to warm up as your core won't be warmed up from squats. If the working set of 5 is easy, do more reps. That's the Greyskull rep scheme of 1x5+.

[tazui1982]

Oh OK, I'll stick to 1x5+ than, thanks.
About the russian dudes sorry I'll try to find the video on youtube it's hard to describe in details but basically he did explosive squats with 85% 1RM i think, it looked awesome and I tried some of that, I kind felt good doing explosive squats.

[GinjaNinja85]

Oh OK, I'll stick to 1x5+ than, thanks.
About the russian dudes sorry I'll try to find the video on youtube it's hard to describe in details but basically he did explosive squats with 85% 1RM i think, it looked awesome and I tried some of that, I kind felt good doing explosive squats.

Aah I see. I weren't sure if you meant that or they just screamed their heads off

Being explosive on the concentric portion is good. Just don't go all fast and loose on the way down. Anything that makes you more aggressive under the bar is a good thing! Just don't go wearing yourself out by doing them too fast. The aim is to move more weight, not move weight faster at the expense of weight on the bar. As long as you bear that in mind I don't see a problem.

[GinjaNinja85]

I ordered a foam roller earlier on this week and it came through yesterday. I gave it a bit of a test run yesterday and crikey, it hurts. I only done my quads and calves for a couple of minutes but I could feel it working, especially when I done it slowly over the uncomfortable bits. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing if it improves the lifting.

Here's a thread of videos that I found that looked good so in light of the foam roller discussion ITT, I'm posting it for those who are interested.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...t=Foam+rolling

[dk240t]

Yeah, it hurts like hell at first, but if you get in a regular routine with it, it ends up not really hurting much, and actually feeling good. You'll see, you won't regret it.

[GinjaNinja85]

Yeah, it hurts like hell at first, but if you get in a regular routine with it, it ends up not really hurting much, and actually feeling good. You'll see, you won't regret it.

I'm was gonna start doing it 3x a week on non lifting days for 15 minutes or so when I get in from work, or straight after conditioning if I'm doing any. Is that a good enough routine?

[dk240t]

I actually do it some before and after lifting...

[GinjaNinja85]

I actually do it some before and after lifting...

Oh... Lol... I'm gonna have to use the search function some more and look into this.