New experiment on self...Nutrient timing....fact or fiction.

[induced_drag]

I have noticed as I have gotten leaner, how much more pronounced the effects of nutrient timing seem to be. (mainly carbs)

This goes against many studies that show timing not be be a large factor. Yet, you see most top level bodybuilders speak as to its effectiveness. You have to wonder that most studies are not done on people in any state of training or at lower bodyfat levels.

So in interest of seeing how much "bunk" there is to it, I am thinking of constructing an experiment with group of 1 ....ME!


Using a blood glucose monitor, I am thinking of deriving an experiment.

I am interested to test a few theories.

-Taking in carbs first thing AM is most efficient as your bodies insulin sensitivity is better
-Taking in carbs post workout is effective as your bodies insulin sensitivity is greater.
-I am also interested in testing GDA's. I have Slin-Sane and Glycobol which I will test.


I played around with my Mother-in-laws meter while she was visiting. I am going to pick one up and devise a protocol to test several of the ideas again. I will construct the experiment to eliminate as many variables as possible. Eg eating same meals, at different times and seeing the response. Or eating the same meal at same time of day, one after a workout and one without working out...etc.

I am hoping to learn a little more about my body.

Anyway...just throwing this out there and seeing what you guys think. Anyone know of anyone who has ever done this? (or am I the only idiot with too much time on their hands )

[highiso]

I practice intermittent fasting, I don't eat until my afternoon workout, so this is a little different than what you're experimenting with. But, I've become pretty good at carb timing and filling out when below 8-9% . I usually keep my carbs around 165g during the week and then double up on Friday-Saturday during the summer.

Downing a few servings of these and a soda before hitting the pool or beach fills me out quickly without looking buttery...

[TCO76]

In for higher learning.

[ntrllftr]

I have preached and followed those theories for two decades. I'll be intersted to see your results with the monitor.

[Smelly bull]

I will be interested in seeing your results.

[2nd_chance]

This goes against many studies that show timing not be be a large factor.

I think that most studies show that it has no effect on LBM gains, but I'm pretty sure that nutrient timing has an effect on fullness and pumps. So what exactly are you testing, the former or the latter?

[induced_drag]

I think that most studies show that it has no effect on LBM gains, but I'm pretty sure that nutrient timing has an effect on fullness and pumps. So what exactly are you testing, the former or the latter?

Mainly I want to look as insulin sensitivity and response to high carbohydrate consumption. We are told, that it is best to consume a major portion of our carbs first thing AM and also post workout due to the increased sensitivity of insulin. I am interested to see how true this is.

If it is, I will be interested to see how far I can push the carb intake. I think this is especially important when trying to get in the max amount of carbs and stay leaner. If it shows there actually is a better time to take in the carbs, it might be possible to keep intake up, thereby maintaining performance as well as state of leanness.

As we know, insulin blunts fat burning. So keeping it lower, during higher carb consumption may help with shifting nutrient partitioning.

I am also very interested in testing GDA (glucose disposal agents). They may play an important role in re-feeding....or even planned cheats.

Wrapping this up, I want to see if there really is something to the stratagy of timing carb consumption. If so, I will carry these ideas into my next surplus and see if I can use it to stay leaner. Maybe even shift my carb cycling around even more..... I really dont know.... Just looking for some insight into if these things actually matter.

[highiso]

Yes they do matter. Why dont you just try fasting already?

[2nd_chance]

Mainly I want to look as insulin sensitivity and response to high carbohydrate consumption. We are told, that it is best to consume a major portion of our carbs first thing AM and also post workout due to the increased sensitivity of insulin. I am interested to see how true this is.

If it is, I will be interested to see how far I can push the carb intake. I think this is especially important when trying to get in the max amount of carbs and stay leaner. If it shows there actually is a better time to take in the carbs, it might be possible to keep intake up, thereby maintaining performance as well as state of leanness.

As we know, insulin blunts fat burning. So keeping it lower, during higher carb consumption may help with shifting nutrient partitioning.

I am also very interested in testing GDA (glucose disposal agents). They may play an important role in re-feeding....or even planned cheats.

Wrapping this up, I want to see if there really is something to the stratagy of timing carb consumption. If so, I will carry these ideas into my next surplus and see if I can use it to stay leaner. Maybe even shift my carb cycling around even more..... I really dont know.... Just looking for some insight into if these things actually matter.

I'm not a believer in that science but good luck. Whether it works or not, I'm sure that your execution and attention to detail will make it come out well.

[drudixon]

I'd toss in protein too. The point of spiking insulin is to increase nutrient absorption. Insulin is merely a catalyst for active transport. The whole point of Insulin isn't to get carbs into cells, it's to get more protein in the cells (from a bodybuilding perspective). I think if you just focus solely on insulin sensitivity without a corresponding spike in protein, then it's a wasted window. Supposedly creatine is also actively transported, so post workout you could time creatine and protein.

This could be total broscience, so research it for sure. Just recalling various articles I've found on the web. I'll definitely be watching your log regardless of which route you take. Lastly, note, the more protein you take, the lower the overall gi of the spike will be, so you'll have to play with high gi carb amounts to get it right.

[induced_drag]

Yes they do matter. Why dont you just try fasting already?

I dont think I could ever run an IF diet. I believe I have been hypoglycemic my entire life. (always had the symptoms even as a child). If I go more then 3 hours without eating, I get shaky...irritable, headaches...etc. Depending upon the type of diet I am eating, it can be made worse with consumption of simple carbs.

This has been confirmed with several blood tests. My overnight fasting blood sugar has come in in the 50's several times. (bottom of the scale is 70!). My Dr says if I dont have any of the underlying causal factors, (liver disease, tumors...etc) that it could just be genetic. It never bothered me on Keto diets (which I did for over 2 years in my 20's) which makes sense as my body was always in a state of making sugars from fatty acids.

Anyway....I dont think IF is for me.... I also dont think (just from a outsiders point of view) that it is an efficient way to gain higher levels of muscle.

I'm not a believer in that science but good luck. Whether it works or not, I'm sure that your execution and attention to detail will make it come out well.

I already seem to notice some differences, but I can not tell if they are in my head or not. That is why I want to test them. My PWO shake which I make with simple sugars and whey (no fat) has almost 100 g of carbs. I feel I can really tell a difference between it's consumption post workout, and carb consumption at other times.

Anyway,....just trying to learn a little something and see if there is anything to this. Obviously, if it made no difference, it would not be worth the effort. If it did however, then focusing carbs at certain times might have merit.

[induced_drag]

I'd toss in protein too. The point of spiking insulin is to increase nutrient absorption.

Gotcha....the protein was a given, but I did not include it and should have. My first meal of the day usually takes in 50-60g and I do 50 +/- PWO.

[highiso]

Definitely not for you then. Ive continued fasting thru my bulk so i wont know until i take all of the fat off if it worked well or not. Ill let you know.

[mmcdjs]

Definitely not for you then. Ive continued fasting thru my bulk so i wont know until i take all of the fat off if it worked well or not. Ill let you know.

Wow. that would be great to know if it makes a real difference. I work everyday and try to plan my meals every 4 hours, so it would be nice to see if there would be any benefit to change what it eat at each meal.

[JelaniTheGreat]

Subbed. Dropped 30lbs on IF and moderate carbs (100-180g).

[smokinal]

I'd be interested in how this goes for you as well. I believe it can make a difference but don't let the kids in the nutrition section hear about this. There is a group of sheep over there that will neg the bejeesus outta ya just for mentioning the phrase "meal timing".
ID, i am going through the same thing you did with my 12 yr old son. He needs to eat often or he turns white, gets shaky and queesey. we are seeing a nutritionist and she has helped him already but you mentioned simple carbs made it worse for you? this may be some of his issue as well because he snacks on a lot of pretzels and corn chips. I try to get some pb into him whenever I can. What other foods may be good for him?

[JOHN GARGANI]

or am I the only idiot with too much time on their hands

errrr.....is this a rhetorical question??

lol.....

nope, buddy, you are far from an idiot, and your "experiments" are always interesting because of your meticulous approach....

I await the results , along with you...

[hardNheavy2011]

I dont think I could ever run an IF diet. I believe I have been hypoglycemic my entire life. (always had the symptoms even as a child). If I go more then 3 hours without eating, I get shaky...irritable, headaches...etc. Depending upon the type of diet I am eating, it can be made worse with consumption of simple carbs.

This has been confirmed with several blood tests. My overnight fasting blood sugar has come in in the 50's several times. (bottom of the scale is 70!). My Dr says if I dont have any of the underlying causal factors, (liver disease, tumors...etc) that it could just be genetic. It never bothered me on Keto diets (which I did for over 2 years in my 20's) which makes sense as my body was always in a state of making sugars from fatty acids.

Anyway....I dont think IF is for me.... I also dont think (just from a outsiders point of view) that it is an efficient way to gain higher levels of muscle.

I was the same way until I switched over to an IF diet. It completely stopped those shaky and dizzy feelings I would get if I didn't eat every two or three hours. Plus, now I can actually enjoy life instead of worrying about timing my next meal. LOL Also, I've realized that calorie consumption pre-workout has had no effect on my strength levels. I can train on zero calories or 2000 calories and have the same quality workout. That's just me.

Almost all of my PL comps have been on an extended fast for weigh in purposes with only an hour or so to eat before I lift. Most of the time I'd just sip on chocolate milk between lifts. LOL

[cockywop]

Be interested to know what info you used to research nutrient timing.

Justin Harris and Shelby Starnes have some good stuff.




Also a good read on I.F.

http://www.dangerouslyhardcore.com/1...asting-part-1/

http://www.dangerouslyhardcore.com/1...e-fights-over/


In b4 Aragons warriors.