Unique Four Day Split? Goals?

[yummycow]

I agree that not liking an exercise is not a reason to do them, and if there are things that cant be preformed, then you should figure out why. For example, i had a client who presented with severe knee pain while squatting, the problem was not with the knees themselves (which were checked by a medical doc and cleared as no issues ) the problem was not that she could not squat, the issue was with weak overall musculature but especially posterier chain. So we spent weeks at what i consider "below basic" exercises strenghtening the things that needed work and now the client happily squats with no pain and is progressing nicely.

I know the OP doesn't care, but I'm interested. I have a similar problem when I try to squat. I've had knee pain for about 2 years now and I've been to the doctor and had an MRI about a year ago. They say the knee looks perfect inside and that it's a weak VMO that is causing the problem. I've worked on this a lot and there is hardly any pain now but I tried to squat with just body weight a few weeks ago and I still have knee pain when I squat. Running will also bring the pain back quickly.

I'd be interested to know what exercises you all did to correct this problem because I really would like to squat.

[rockangel]

I know the OP doesn't care, but I'm interested. I have a similar problem when I try to squat. I've had knee pain for about 2 years now and I've been to the doctor and had an MRI about a year ago. They say the knee looks perfect inside and that it's a weak VMO that is causing the problem. I've worked on this a lot and there is hardly any pain now but I tried to squat with just body weight a few weeks ago and I still have knee pain when I squat. Running will also bring the pain back quickly.

I'd be interested to know what exercises you all did to correct this problem because I really would like to squat.

Actually she had the same problems, could not run due to the pain, and she was about your stats as well when she started.

We started her out with a 4 day split because of the pain, and so that she would be able have ample time for recovery for the legs. reps and sets were designed to build strength and endurance, not neccessarily mass, though she has built some mass on the legs.

She started with a 10 minute cardio warm up and then stretched the legs to help loosen the muscles and get the blood flowing to them, then she would go into straight leg deadlifts, again she was not very strong so it was not with heavy weights, 3 sets of 10
then she did glute master machine, 4 sets of 12. normally i would not choose this, but i find this machine really helps to train the glutes to fire properly as well as avoids locking the knee out or putting too much stress on it. She used the lightest weight possible, again training her to fire the glutes and getting them used to working was the goal.

After that we went to the leg curl machine, using one leg at a time and only going to a 45 degree angle. 4 sets of 12

Next was step-ups which she started out with a simple toe touch and progressed upwards to a bench later. 3 sets of 10 for each leg.

Next was stability ball wall sit, she would go down as far as she could with no pain and hold for 30 seconds (this is just a modified squat) she did this 1 set of 10

Last was glute bridge for 4 sets of 12, she started with bodyweight and added weights as she got stronger.
After that she was to stretch again to help keep the muscles loose and to help prevent the pain.

For cardio she was to stick to elliptical or bikes, no running or impact cardio.

We had about 6 - 8 weeks of this before she tried squats again, at which time she could do body weight squats with no pain. From there we progressed very slowly and added weights, and we listened to her body. She was brand new to lifting at that point though she had been "exercising" before that. Today she is running 5ks with no pain. We just now added hiit into her program as i think she has the base for it now, so far no pain.

[Botika]

I know the OP doesn't care, but I'm interested. I have a similar problem when I try to squat. I've had knee pain for about 2 years now and I've been to the doctor and had an MRI about a year ago. They say the knee looks perfect inside and that it's a weak VMO that is causing the problem. I've worked on this a lot and there is hardly any pain now but I tried to squat with just body weight a few weeks ago and I still have knee pain when I squat. Running will also bring the pain back quickly.

I'd be interested to know what exercises you all did to correct this problem because I really would like to squat.

Have you seen this video birdiefu posted?
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...1#post98486778 (Post #9 after the link)

That gave me a few ah-ha moments about how to squat properly. The biggest one was not squatting over the knees because that causes pain. Not sure whether that applies to you but anyway, check out the vid... It's worth it.

[yummycow]

Have you seen this video birdiefu posted?
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...1#post98486778 (Post #9 after the link)

That gave me a few ah-ha moments about how to squat properly. The biggest one was not squatting over the knees because that causes pain. Not sure whether that applies to you but anyway, check out the vid... It's worth it.

No I never watched it. I saw it in that thread and thought I need to watch this when I have more time and forgot about it. A good thing it's Sunday morning and I have plenty of time now.

Actually she had the same problems, could not run due to the pain, and she was about your stats as well when she started.

We started her out with a 4 day split because of the pain, and so that she would be able have ample time for recovery for the legs. reps and sets were designed to build strength and endurance, not neccessarily mass, though she has built some mass on the legs.

She started with a 10 minute cardio warm up and then stretched the legs to help loosen the muscles and get the blood flowing to them, then she would go into straight leg deadlifts, again she was not very strong so it was not with heavy weights, 3 sets of 10
then she did glute master machine, 4 sets of 12. normally i would not choose this, but i find this machine really helps to train the glutes to fire properly as well as avoids locking the knee out or putting too much stress on it. She used the lightest weight possible, again training her to fire the glutes and getting them used to working was the goal.

After that we went to the leg curl machine, using one leg at a time and only going to a 45 degree angle. 4 sets of 12

Next was step-ups which she started out with a simple toe touch and progressed upwards to a bench later. 3 sets of 10 for each leg.

Next was stability ball wall sit, she would go down as far as she could with no pain and hold for 30 seconds (this is just a modified squat) she did this 1 set of 10

Last was glute bridge for 4 sets of 12, she started with bodyweight and added weights as she got stronger.
After that she was to stretch again to help keep the muscles loose and to help prevent the pain.

For cardio she was to stick to elliptical or bikes, no running or impact cardio.

We had about 6 - 8 weeks of this before she tried squats again, at which time she could do body weight squats with no pain. From there we progressed very slowly and added weights, and we listened to her body. She was brand new to lifting at that point though she had been "exercising" before that. Today she is running 5ks with no pain. We just now added hiit into her program as i think she has the base for it now, so far no pain.

Is the glute master machine the one where you get down on all fours and kick one leg straight back, or is it the bad girl machine? I'm hoping the first because the bad girl machine causes knee pain too.

For the leg curls you mean from straight to 45 or do you mean form ass to 45? I'm guessing straight to 45 but want to be sure, Oh and why only 45 degrees?

There is a nifty adjustable step-up machine at my gym with a platform that you can make as low as 4" or as high as 1'6" or something like that I didn't really measure.

I've never tried the stability ball squat but I have been doing leg press with no pain, I should probably give it a try we have enough stability balls at the gym.

Does it matter how you do the glute bridge? I can do them alright if I have my shoulders on a bench or the couch, but if my shoulders are on the floor I can't get the form right and it kills my low back and I hardly feel it in my bum.

Anyway I will put these in my workouts when I start doing legs again. I hurt my back 3 times last month and while it's feeling much better now I haven't done any leg stuff since the 12 of December. I've been doing planks and foam rolling the hell out of my hip flexors and that seems to help both my knee and my back. I started doing that after reading some of this guys stuff http://deansomerset.com/2012/10/25/p...-hip-mobility/

I also think part of my problem is unlike your client I've lifted before and I keep thinking I should be able to do more than I can really do.

[rockangel]

No I never watched it. I saw it in that thread and thought I need to watch this when I have more time and forgot about it. A good thing it's Sunday morning and I have plenty of time now.

Is the glute master machine the one where you get down on all fours and kick one leg straight back, or is it the bad girl machine? I'm hoping the first because the bad girl machine causes knee pain too.

For the leg curls you mean from straight to 45 or do you mean form ass to 45? I'm guessing straight to 45 but want to be sure, Oh and why only 45 degrees?

There is a nifty adjustable step-up machine at my gym with a platform that you can make as low as 4" or as high as 1'6" or something like that I didn't really measure.

I've never tried the stability ball squat but I have been doing leg press with no pain, I should probably give it a try we have enough stability balls at the gym.

Does it matter how you do the glute bridge? I can do them alright if I have my shoulders on a bench or the couch, but if my shoulders are on the floor I can't get the form right and it kills my low back and I hardly feel it in my bum.

Anyway I will put these in my workouts when I start doing legs again. I hurt my back 3 times last month and while it's feeling much better now I haven't done any leg stuff since the 12 of December. I've been doing planks and foam rolling the hell out of my hip flexors and that seems to help both my knee and my back. I started doing that after reading some of this guys stuff http://deansomerset.com/2012/10/25/p...-hip-mobility/

I also think part of my problem is unlike your client I've lifted before and I keep thinking I should be able to do more than I can really do.

The thing is with this program, it was specifically tailored to the clients needs and abilities. so it may not work or be advisable for everyone to do the same.

There are several differnt variations in design for the machines known as the glute master, while all do about the same motion, there are slight differences. For this client we had a machine where you stood on a platform, put one foot on the other patform and pushed up using the glutes and hams. In this specific machine, the knee was kept in the same position for the entire movement, the leg did not straighten out. It will depend on what equipment your gym has and what the exact movement is that causes pain as to what exercises you would choose.

Now, in this particular client, the movement that caused pain was knee extension and knee flexion, so you wanted to look at exercises that would strenghten the muscles involved without actually doing the parts of the movement that caused pain. We spent several days going over movements and which ones specifically caused pain so that i could work around that as I never want my clients in pain. That is the reason for the 45 degree angle on the leg curl, that was as far as she could go without pain, so we trained what we could. It is also why you do not see leg extensions on the list, as the client could not do those and the force on the knee was too great to mess with it.


The stability ball wall squat is about the easiest version of the squat, the client only went down to the point she could handle and no further, again, we were training what we could.
We also had her doing the glute bridges from the floor, but there was no pain for her. If there is pain for you, it might not be what you need.

It sounds like you are at a different point than this client was, and you may have more going on than just weak VMO, it may take a different approach and this my point to the op as well, not everything can be dealt with the same way.

[yummycow]

Well thanks for the response.

Even if it's not exactly the same I still feel like I'm on the right track. My knee hardly hurts any more unless I try to squat and I can usually get away with a few squats before it hurts. It's still interesting to see how other people have dealt with similar issues.

My plan was to slowly increase my leg press until my legs were strong enough to do squats, and I was working on my glutes and hamstrings as well. I also have no problems with leg extensions so I was doing those pretty regularly.

My back will get better, I just need to give it some rest and strengthen the core a bit. It's been a problem since I was 18 and when I'm good to it, it's good to me but I've been stupid lately.

[Giffer666]

wow long story dat had to hurt man