Hit a plateau, reduce to 1500 cals?

[pojo1993]

Hey everyone.

I'm currently at 242 pounds, 6 foot 4, about 20% BF. I have hit a plateau, I have not lost any scale weight or inches for the past 3 weeks or so. I have been on a 2000 cal diet a day eating lean and following my macros of 200g protein, 180g carbs, and 53g fat. Following that same 2000 cal diet I have lost 50 lbs since January. I lift 4 days a week and do 20 minuets of cardio 5 days a week which includes jogging outside and the elliptical at the gym. Supplement wise I use Xtend BCAA, Opti-men multivitamin, and ON Gold Standard Whey.

Right now I reduced to a 1500 cal diet per day. Macros look like this: 200g protein, 120g carbs, 25g fat. As you can see I lowered my carb intake and cut the fat by half. Is this too much of a drastic change? Do you think 1500 cals is too low at my size? I will try this for a week and see what happens but does anyone have any input?

Thanks

1500 cut diet:
Fat Protein Carbs
Meal 1:
5 lrg eggs whites, 1 whole egg: 5g 26g
1/2 cup oatmeal: 3g 5g 27g

Meal 2:
1 Scoop whey protein with 8 oz water 1g 24g 3g

Meal 3:
5oz chicken breast 3g 29g
2 slices wheat bread 2g 2g 30g
Tomato/Lettuce/ketchup 9g

Meal 4:
1 scoop whey protein with 8 oz water 1g 24g 3g

Meal 5:
5oz chicken breast 3g 29g
2 slices wheat bread 2g 2g 30g
Tomato/Lettuce/ketchup 9g

Meal 6:
1 scoop whey protein with 8 oz water 1g 24g 3g

Meal 7:
6 oz chicken breast 4g 35g
ketchup 5g

Total 25 g Fat 200g Protein 120g Carbs
x9 x4 x4
225cals 800cals 480cals

1,505 calories

[mariusjacobsen]

Have you tried a refeed? Might just get things going again.

[pojo1993]

Have you tried a refeed? Might just get things going again.

Yes, I tried cheat days once per week starting 4 weeks ago where I would have 2500-2700 calories.

[cyco85]

What the god damn ****? That's damn near a PSMF diet for your size. You should be cutting at (almost) twice that. I would not go under 2000 cals bro.

[TBtaylor52]

What the god damn ****? That's damn near a PSMF diet for your size. You should be cutting at (almost) twice that. I would not go under 2000 cals bro.

This.

You arent eating enough at all.

[Electricheadd]

what did your weight loss look like prior to this? Also when did you start taking the xtend?

[pojo1993]

Yesterday was the first day that I tried the 1500 calories. Prior to that I was on a 2000-2250 calorie diet since January. I was seeing weigh loss of about 2 pounds per week but all of a sudden it stopped about 3 weeks ago. I have been using the Xtend for about 3 months.

[nlite2000]

Yesterday was the first day that I tried the 1500 calories. Prior to that I was on a 2000-2250 calorie diet since January. I was seeing weigh loss of about 2 pounds per week but all of a sudden it stopped about 3 weeks ago. I have been using the Xtend for about 3 months.

I stalled for about a month at 215, then pissed out 5 pounds that never came back one morning. Stalled at 210 for about 3 weeks and then pissed out 10 pounds one morning. Fat loss is funny like that, just be patient. If you're eating what you say you are it's gonna go.

[jdh1986]

I'm 6ft 2 227lbs and I cut @ 1800 and lose about 3lbs per week I carnt understand why you wouldn't be losing weight from my limited knowledge. My sudgestion would be either reduce carbs slightly or maybe do slightly more cardio. Are you recalculating your BMR and calorie needs every 5-10 lbs? I do this and it's stoped my platue I had resently. Just my two cents.

[pojo1993]

Thanks for the responses. Today ill try a re feed day, Ill eat around 2400ish and then tomorrow ill try cutting at 1800 and see what happens. Ill lower the carbs slightly.

[nlite2000]

Thanks for the responses. Today ill try a re feed day, Ill eat around 2400ish and then tomorrow ill try cutting at 1800 and see what happens. Ill lower the carbs slightly.

The two wooshes I just described--one came after a distastrous night out drinking, the other after a disastrous pizza binge.

[jdh1986]

Yeah I don't recommend you go any further than 1800 mate. That's getting dangerously low for someone your size to consume just guessing your maintenance on your weight is around 3000 your getting to a near 50% deficit which isn't good mentally. And being a big boy like me you have to watch tht you don't cut to quick otherwise you risk the dreaded lose skin :S. Good luck

[lunchboy]

On a side note....don't cut fats that low, you will tank your hormone levels.

[jdh1986]

The two wooshes I just described--one came after a distastrous night out drinking, the other after a disastrous pizza binge.

Funny ou mention that I lost 6 lbs after a night out drinking on my birthday. Strange :S

[Electricheadd]

Yesterday was the first day that I tried the 1500 calories. Prior to that I was on a 2000-2250 calorie diet since January. I was seeing weigh loss of about 2 pounds per week but all of a sudden it stopped about 3 weeks ago. I have been using the Xtend for about 3 months.

I would not cut your calories yet. Assuming you are weighing all of your food and eating exactly what you think your eating you are still losing fat. (likely being replaced by water) This is a good article explaining why fat loss is often times not linear. Read through these and be patient.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...uishy-fat.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...d-i-do-qa.html

[pojo1993]

According to the BMR calculator I used, for 242lbs at 6 foot 4 i have a BMR of 2400 calories. So if I eat 1800 cals a day that's a 600 cal deficit and then workout like I do, burning about 500-600 cals per day that would be a 1100-1200 deficit a day so I should expect weight loss of 2-2.5lbs per week. Sounds like a plan!

[Electricheadd]

Funny ou mention that I lost 6 lbs after a night out drinking on my birthday. Strange :S

Martin actually talks about this in reference to IF protocol.

http://www.leangains.com/2010/07/tru...nd-muscle.html

[pojo1993]

I would not cut your calories yet. Assuming you are weighing all of your food and eating exactly what you think your eating you are still losing fat. (likely being replaced by water) This is a good article explaining why fat loss is often times not linear. Read through these and be patient.

Thanks for the post, ill start reading them.

[Electricheadd]

According to the BMR calculator I used, for 242lbs at 6 foot 4 i have a BMR of 2400 calories. So if I eat 1800 cals a day that's a 600 cal deficit and then workout like I do, burning about 500-600 cals per day that would be a 1100-1200 deficit a day so I should expect weight loss of 2-2.5lbs per week. Sounds like a plan!

BMR = The amount of energy your body uses to maintein daily functions without activity
TDEE = Total daily energy expenditure (maintence calories)

You figure your calories based off TDEE

[pojo1993]

BMR = The amount of energy your body uses to maintein daily functions without activity
TDEE = Total daily energy expenditure (maintence calories)

You figure your calories based off TDEE

So i guess my TDEE is around 3000 then.

[Electricheadd]

So i guess my TDEE is around 3000 then.

That sounds much more accurate. That is why a lot of us were like wtf.... he should be losing weight at 2000 calories easy.

[le2key]

pojo, your calories are way too low man you're probably in starvation mode - do not cut down to 1500 calories.

first things first recalculate your TDEE and cut calories by 15-20%. you do this by finding out your BMR (how many calories your body needs to function without factoring in external activities) and then multiply it by your activity level. you can find the BMR formula on the internet.

Activity factor
Sedentary = BMR X 1.2
Lightly active = BMR X 1.375
Mod. active = BMR X 1.55
Very active = BMR X 1.725
Extr. Active = BMR X 1.9

For example, your BMR is 1800 you are moderately active -> 1800 x 1.55 = 2790 -> your TDEE is 2790 -> cut down your calories by 20% so.. 2790 x 0.2 = 558, 2790 - 558 = 2232 - your daily calorie intake is 2232. (this is just an example)

Your ratios should start at 50% carbs, 30% protein, and 20% fats (50-30-20). Depending on your body type and sensitivity you can lower your carbs and raise your proteins or fats. I wouldn't lower your carbs below 30%, you need carbs for energy do your work outs and to prevent you from going on a binge. Your fat levels (healthy fats = fish, avocado, nuts, etc) should never be over 30% or lower than 15% you need it to stay out of starvation mode, hormone regulation, and a bunch of other stuff. Eat 6 meals 2-3 hours apart, a very important note is to always eat your carbs with protein with every meal. Water consumption is also very important, it should be 1.0 - 1.5 ml per cal expended per day. Some tips is to eat your heaviest meal in the morning and lightest meal at night. And I'm assuming you know about food quality, so as natural as possible - lean proteins, starchy carbs, and fibrous carbs.

You should be lifting at least 3x per week (heavy weights, 8-12 reps), and cardio at least 4x per week for at least 30mins - 45mins max @ moderate - high intensity, hard enough that you're breathing heavily and sweating but low enough that you aren't hyper ventilating and getting dizzy (if you wish to do more cardio in a day you can split it like 30 minutes in the morning before you eat, and 40 minutes later in the day). As you progress with your cardio, you can increase you fat loss even more by adding 2 more days, of course this will be on the same days as your weight lifting so I suggest running in the morning and then weight lifting later in the day - if you're tight on time and can't split sessions, do your cardio after your weight lifting. Always increase your activity levels first before lowering calories.

If you're doing all this and you plateau once more, then it probably means you have "Adaptation syndrome" once this happens it is time to change variables in your work out. You can change your weights/reps/sets/exercises in weight lifting, and your frequency/duration/intensity in your cardio. HIIT cardio is also a good way to break a plateau, you can google it for a lot of good examples.

PS. If you're intent on lowering your calories even further (35% reduction should be the maximum) you can do it by eating 35% below your TDEE for 3 days then on the 4th day eat like 200 calories above your TDEE, and repeat. You can also do carb cycling like this as well to get some more fat loss. So basically 30c-50p-20f low days, and then 50c-30p-20f on your high day. If you're gonna have a cheat day, do it on a high day.

PPS. W/e happens your #1 concern is to keep your lean body mass at all cost, initially you'll be losing water weight so it'll come up as LBM but don't worry it'll even it self out, but as you progress in the future and you're noticing significant LBM loss, it's time to do more weight lifting and to raise your calories.

[pojo1993]

pojo, your calories are way too low man you're probably in starvation mode - do not cut down to 1500 calories.

first things first recalculate your TDEE and cut calories by 15-20%. you do this by finding out your BMR (how many calories your body needs to function without factoring in external activities) and then multiply it by your activity level. you can find the BMR formula on the internet.

Activity factor
Sedentary = BMR X 1.2
Lightly active = BMR X 1.375
Mod. active = BMR X 1.55
Very active = BMR X 1.725
Extr. Active = BMR X 1.9

For example, your BMR is 1800 you are moderately active -> 1800 x 1.55 = 2790 -> your TDEE is 2790 -> cut down your calories by 20% so.. 2790 x 0.2 = 558, 2790 - 558 = 2232 - your daily calorie intake is 2232. (this is just an example)

Your ratios should start at 50% carbs, 30% protein, and 20% fats (50-30-20). Depending on your body type and sensitivity you can lower your carbs and raise your proteins or fats. I wouldn't lower your carbs below 30%, you need carbs for energy do your work outs and to prevent you from going on a binge. Your fat levels (healthy fats = fish, avocado, nuts, etc) should never be over 30% or lower than 15% you need it to stay out of starvation mode, hormone regulation, and a bunch of other stuff. Eat 6 meals 2-3 hours apart, a very important note is to always eat your carbs with protein with every meal. Water consumption is also very important, it should be 1.0 - 1.5 ml per cal expended per day. Some tips is to eat your heaviest meal in the morning and lightest meal at night. And I'm assuming you know about food quality, so as natural as possible - lean proteins, starchy carbs, and fibrous carbs.

You should be lifting at least 3x per week (heavy weights, 8-12 reps), and cardio at least 4x per week for at least 30mins - 45mins max @ moderate - high intensity, hard enough that you're breathing heavily and sweating but low enough that you aren't hyper ventilating and getting dizzy (if you wish to do more cardio in a day you can split it like 30 minutes in the morning before you eat, and 40 minutes later in the day). As you progress with your cardio, you can increase you fat loss even more by adding 2 more days, of course this will be on the same days as your weight lifting so I suggest running in the morning and then weight lifting later in the day - if you're tight on time and can't split sessions, do your cardio after your weight lifting. Always increase your activity levels first before lowering calories.

If you're doing all this and you plateau once more, then it probably means you have "Adaptation syndrome" once this happens it is time to change variables in your work out. You can change your weights/reps/sets/exercises in weight lifting, and your frequency/duration/intensity in your cardio. HIIT cardio is also a good way to break a plateau, you can google it for a lot of good examples.

PS. If you're intent on lowering your calories even further (35% reduction should be the maximum) you can do it by eating 35% below your TDEE for 3 days then on the 4th day eat like 200 calories above your TDEE, and repeat. You can also do carb cycling like this as well to get some more fat loss. So basically 30c-50p-20f low days, and then 50c-30p-20f on your high day. If you're gonna have a cheat day, do it on a high day.

PPS. W/e happens your #1 concern is to keep your lean body mass at all cost, initially you'll be losing water weight so it'll come up as LBM but don't worry it'll even it self out, but as you progress in the future and you're noticing significant LBM loss, it's time to do more weight lifting and to raise your calories.

So according to this my TDEE is 3744. If I cut by 20% then that is 2995, I ate around 3000-3200 back when I was 292 and I was maintaining my weight. That seems like a big amount, I feel if I ate that much per day I would be gaining weight. Cutting by 35% seems more reasonable, it would be 2400 cals a day. But 1500 is way to low I came to realize that. I am going to cut at 2250 and see where that brings me. Its a bit more than the 35% cut according to the equation but it is 250 more than the 2000 I was eating so it may add that boost I need if I am in starvation mode. I don't feel as if I am in starvation mode though. I eat about 5-6 times per day and feel great, I'm not lethargic at all.

[Automagic]

I would not cut your calories yet. Assuming you are weighing all of your food and eating exactly what you think your eating you are still losing fat. (likely being replaced by water) This is a good article explaining why fat loss is often times not linear. Read through these and be patient.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...uishy-fat.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...d-i-do-qa.html

"On a related topic, I wanted to discuss something else that often happens when people are getting very lean and dealing with stubborn body fat: the fat gets squishy, feeling almost like there are small marbles under the skin. Yes, very scientific, I know. That’s the best I can do.

As folks get very lean, down to the last pounds of fat, the skin and fat cells that are left will often change appearance and texture. It will look dimply (as the fat cells which are supporting the skin shrink and the skin isn’t supported) and feel squishy to the touch. This is bad in that it looks really weird, but it’s good because it means that the fat is going away. I have nothing truly profound to say about this topic, just realizes that it happens and usually indicates good things are happening."

Fuking THANK YOU dude, I have been wondering whether or not this was irremovable cellulite. Repped! Been looking for an answer for weeks... im glad to see its a positive thing.

[Electricheadd]

So according to this my TDEE is 3744. If I cut by 20% then that is 2995, I ate around 3000-3200 back when I was 292 and I was maintaining my weight. That seems like a big amount, I feel if I ate that much per day I would be gaining weight. Cutting by 35% seems more reasonable, it would be 2400 cals a day. But 1500 is way to low I came to realize that. I am going to cut at 2250 and see where that brings me. Its a bit more than the 35% cut according to the equation but it is 250 more than the 2000 I was eating so it may add that boost I need if I am in starvation mode. I don't feel as if I am in starvation mode though. I eat about 5-6 times per day and feel great, I'm not lethargic at all.

There is no such thing as starvation mode. You are over thinking this whole thing. eat 2000-2200 calories with the correct macros and work out. The weight will drop just be patient. I started at 270 lbs and have cut down to 205 eating 1800-2200 calories/day the entire time.


http://www.thefactsaboutfitness.com/research/lyle.htm

[pojo1993]

There is no such thing as starvation mode. You are over thinking this whole thing. eat 2000-2200 calories with the correct macros and work out. The weight will drop just be patient. I started at 270 lbs and have cut down to 205 eating 1800-2200 calories/day the entire time.

Yes I am definitely over thinking all of this. I got a headache from trying to calculate everything haha. Ok so bottom line is patience, something I need to work on. Ill stick to the 2000-2200. Thanks for all the info guys.

[le2key]

So according to this my TDEE is 3744. If I cut by 20% then that is 2995, I ate around 3000-3200 back when I was 292 and I was maintaining my weight. That seems like a big amount, I feel if I ate that much per day I would be gaining weight. Cutting by 35% seems more reasonable, it would be 2400 cals a day. But 1500 is way to low I came to realize that. I am going to cut at 2250 and see where that brings me. Its a bit more than the 35% cut according to the equation but it is 250 more than the 2000 I was eating so it may add that boost I need if I am in starvation mode. I don't feel as if I am in starvation mode though. I eat about 5-6 times per day and feel great, I'm not lethargic at all.

Your TDEE is higher than most is because you're 6'4 and weighing over 200 pounds, I'm 5'10, 170 and eating at a little over 2000 calories and even I'm losing fat. But I guess you can do w/e is most comfortable as you as long as you're over 2000 cal. If you're gonna reduce your calories that much though I suggest doing the 3 day low cal, 1 day high cal method, so you don't lose any LBM. Btw, 20 min cardio isn't enough you gotta turn up the juice.

There is no such thing as starvation mode.

How can you say there is, "No such thing as Starvation Mode?" It's a biological survival response - and has been well documented. The author of your article even confirms that starvation mode exists, albeit blown out of proportion; and I some what agree. Starvation response lowers your metabolic rate, and that's enough reason to avoid low cal diets. Starvation mode due to low cal diets alone might not totally impede your fat loss but there are indirect consequences that really slow your progress down for example, you lose more muscle (lowers your metabolic rate even more), your body is more inclined to store fat, you lose energy during work outs, and not to mention that you're more likely to go on a binge due to cravings (personal experience on that one).

And I'd also like to see the body composition of those guys that were at 5% body fat, I bet you they did not look good at all, probably emaciated or at least looking "skinny fat". I've been at 6% body fat with barely muscle mass when I was a teenager and trust me it did not look good at all.

[pojo1993]

Your TDEE is higher than most is because you're 6'4 and weighing over 200 pounds, I'm 5'10, 170 and eating at a little over 2000 calories and even I'm losing fat. But I guess you can do w/e is most comfortable as you as long as you're over 2000 cal. If you're gonna reduce your calories that much though I suggest doing the 3 day low cal, 1 day high cal method, so you don't lose any LBM. Btw, 20 min cardio isn't enough you gotta turn up the juice.

I will definitely try the cycling method. I have heard some good things about it. In regards to cardio, your right, juicing it up wouldn't hurt. I'll up it to 30 mins. Thanks for the info.

[BadBrain]

Your TDEE is higher than most is because you're 6'4 and weighing over 200 pounds, I'm 5'10, 170 and eating at a little over 2000 calories and even I'm losing fat. But I guess you can do w/e is most comfortable as you as long as you're over 2000 cal. If you're gonna reduce your calories that much though I suggest doing the 3 day low cal, 1 day high cal method, so you don't lose any LBM. Btw, 20 min cardio isn't enough you gotta turn up the juice.



How can you say there is, "No such thing as Starvation Mode?" It's a biological survival response - and has been well documented. The author of your article even confirms that starvation mode exists, albeit blown out of proportion; and I some what agree. Starvation response lowers your metabolic rate, and that's enough reason to avoid low cal diets. Starvation mode due to low cal diets alone might not totally impede your fat loss but there are indirect consequences that really slow your progress down for example, you lose more muscle (lowers your metabolic rate even more), your body is more inclined to store fat, you lose energy during work outs, and not to mention that you're more likely to go on a binge due to cravings (personal experience on that one).

And I'd also like to see the body composition of those guys that were at 5% body fat, I bet you they did not look good at all, probably emaciated or at least looking "skinny fat". I've been at 6% body fat with barely muscle mass when I was a teenager and trust me it did not look good at all.

Lotta broscience here.

No caloric deficit will produce a metabolic slowdown large enough to offset the actual deficit. If it did, people wouldn't actually starve to death.

The OP's maint. cals are likely 3000-3500, eating at 2k is fine, although aggressive.

All the other stuff really doesn't matter.

[le2key]

Lotta broscience here.

No caloric deficit will produce a metabolic slowdown large enough to offset the actual deficit. If it did, people wouldn't actually starve to death.

The OP's maint. cals are likely 3000-3500, eating at 2k is fine, although aggressive.

All the other stuff really doesn't matter.

Never said a low calorie deficit would off set the actual deficit. I said a slower metabolism along with other problems go along with a low calorie diet that could slow down your results.

A point about starving to death, other than lack of essential sustenance and nutrients you know why you'd die with out food? Your body would start breaking itself down for energy until your organs shut down and you die, really has little to do with calories. It depends on your build but it's common knowledge that if you have enough water, you can last for months with out food. No broscience thar mane.