metabolism and carbs

[UnaChispita]

A person with low body fat does not mean they necessarily know the science. I know plenty of stupid jacked guys who know less than me about biology and chemistry but have the desire and discipline to eat a strict diet all the time consisting of chicken, fish, broccoli, leafy greens, and drink water exclusively. Don't make the silly assumption that low body fat makes someone the definitive source on science. Achieving that has more to do with discipline than knowledge. Do you think the average person with single digit body fat knows more about the science than your average chemist? Even me, do you think those jacked guys are smarter than me even though I graduated with an engineering degree from a top 10 university?

When I asked if you had looked at their avis, I meant that all three posters: ACC, Megdaig and Miranda clearly have worked hard at carving their physiques. What they have done does not happen by accident. They also gave you knowledgeable responses and, if you lurk at all here, you would know they have the knowledge.

I'm new here, but what I don't understand is someone asking for input and then being critical at the response they get (and also unappreciative btw).

Personally, I consider myself lucky when one of these folks takes the time to answer one of my questions.

[acrawlingchaos]

So, I have another probably stupid question. You increase carbs but decrease fat intake on a refeed day. Why do you have to worry about fat if you're eating at a deficit anyway?

I'll explain a little of the science (from what I understand). When you are in a deficit, typically carbs are where calories are cut from. Protein intake needs to be high to help maintain lean mass and fat intake is needed to help with various intracellular and hormonal processes. So calories are cut with carbs.

When you become leaner various hormone levels (namely leptin and grehlin) that are produced in adipose tissue start to lower. When you refeed once a week (small surplus), an overfeed of carbs will spike these hormones (which is good). This will also fill glycogen levels (as Mirandas post below explains). The glycogen will help keep your lifts strong (primary fuel). The low fat intake for that one day is because during a refeed, the body will preferentially burn fat. This means you will still burn body fat on the one day you are on a surplus.

Win win win.

I just find the whole topic fascinating since I always thought it was a simple limit your calories to 1200 day if you wanted to lose weight kind of thing.

I am a firm believer that no woman should have to lose fat on less than 1500 calories a day. If you are that low (counting faithfully), than something is wrong. Severe dieting may have caused metabolic adaptions (that can be corrected).

you're not in a deficit during a refeed.

when you start to get really lean, 'fat balance' is something that starts to count. you want as little fat storage as possible vs fat loss, so on a refeed when your goal is to refill glycogen you keep fat intake low.

[UnaChispita]

I'll explain a little of the science (from what I understand). When you are in a deficit, typically carbs are where calories are cut from. Protein intake needs to be high to help maintain lean mass and fat intake is needed to help with various intracellular and hormonal processes. So calories are cut with carbs.

When you become leaner various hormone levels (namely leptin and grehlin) that are produced in adipose tissue start to lower. When you refeed once a week (small surplus), an overfeed of carbs will spike these hormones (which is good). This will also fill glycogen levels (as Mirandas post below explains). The glycogen will help keep your lifts strong (primary fuel).

So, a question: A person doesn't need lots of carbs everyday to have energy? I thought all energy came from carbs.

The low fat intake for that one day is because during a refeed, the body will preferentially burn fat. This means you will still burn body fat on the one day you are on a surplus.

Does the body burn fat b/c carbs have been low earlier in the week? IDK if that makes sense. Does that make sense?

I am a firm believer that no woman should have to lose fat on less than 1500 calories a day. If you are that low (counting faithfully), than something is wrong. Severe dieting may have caused metabolic adaptions (that can be corrected).

Oh ****! Really?

[pUniCepts]

Nobody cares. You're a 28 yo male that starts threads in the female and teen sections. Don't post here again.

[UnaChispita]

Nobody cares. You're a 28 yo male that starts threads in the female and teen sections. Don't post here again.

Hey!

At least I benefited!

Thanks everyone for your help!

[pUniCepts]

Hey!

At least I benefited!

Thanks everyone for your help!

That's the only reason I replied vs. just deleting it

[acrawlingchaos]

So, a question: A person doesn't need lots of carbs everyday to have energy? I thought all energy came from carbs.

There is no such thing as an "essential carb", meaning you they are not mandatory at all. Granted, they definately help in strength training (and other forms of exercise).

The body uses both fat and carbs for energy (sometimes protein). When we "lose fat", we are actually using it up as fuel.

Does the body burn fat b/c carbs have been low earlier in the week? IDK if that makes sense. Does that make sense?

Kind of, but you are really burning fat because you are in a deficit. It's just carbs are the least essential macro, so on a cut they are the first to go. Some people swear by keto... (super low carb), but I am not a fan (especially if you strength train).

Oh ****! Really?

If you want to start a dialogue in your journal about your diet, send me a message and I will be more than happy to run through some numbers and answer whatever question you have.

I hope you had a wonderful Christmas!!!

[rockangel]

If you want the sciencey stuff, this is a really good 13 page explanation.
http://scidiv.bellevuecollege.edu/rk...iration160.pdf

My first degree is animal science, took a whole college class just on animal metabolism (its the same for humans) also took a class on food rations which covered the whole fat,protein, and carb manipulation/rationing in animals. Translates a lot to the human world. Its all so interesting.

[yummycow]

Nobody cares. You're a 28 yo male that starts threads in the female and teen sections. Don't post here again.

Wow! 28 I was sure that the OP was a 16 year old who weighed themselves way too often. I'm not sure why anyone would weigh themselves everyday and take every little fluctuation so seriously. Personally I haven't even bothered with the scale for the past 2 weeks I know my diet hasn't been in order and due to injury and illness I haven't been to the gym either.

Still there is a lot of good info in this thread from everyone except the OP. Most of what everyone said is right in line with books I've read and articles I've read online.

[UnaChispita]

That's the only reason I replied vs. just deleting it

Thanks pUni!

There is no such thing as an "essential carb", meaning you they are not mandatory at all. Granted, they definately help in strength training (and other forms of exercise).

The body uses both fat and carbs for energy (sometimes protein). When we "lose fat", we are actually using it up as fuel.

Kind of, but you are really burning fat because you are in a deficit. It's just carbs are the least essential macro, so on a cut they are the first to go.

I guess I never really thought about the fat-burning process like this. That probably sounds silly.

Some people swear by keto... (super low carb), but I am not a fan (especially if you strength train).

I like carbs. Does going that low-carb screw with metabolism in the long run?

If you want to start a dialogue in your journal about your diet, send me a message and I will be more than happy to run through some numbers and answer whatever question you have.

PM sent! Thanks ACC.

I hope you had a wonderful Christmas!!!

Give all those doggies a pat from me.

If you want the sciencey stuff, this is a really good 13 page explanation.
http://scidiv.bellevuecollege.edu/rk...iration160.pdf

My first degree is animal science, took a whole college class just on animal metabolism (its the same for humans) also took a class on food rations which covered the whole fat,protein, and carb manipulation/rationing in animals. Translates a lot to the human world. Its all so interesting.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to rockangel again."

[Miranda]

The low fat intake for that one day is because during a refeed, the body will preferentially burn fat. This means you will still burn body fat on the one day you are on a surplus.

there are several reasons why you should avoid fat on a refeed.

1/ when you eat in surplus all the fat you eat is stored as bodyfat
2/ fat hikes up your calories higher than they would otherwise be hence you burn less fat
3/ fat has no effect on the hormones you want to bring back up.

nor do you have to refeed to fill glycogen. muscle glycogen is filled under 'normal' conditions as well if it's low. well, you need to eat carbohydrates for it to occur obviously.

i'd also add that judging a book by its cover is not a good habit to get into. people can get results despite what they do (or say).

[acrawlingchaos]

there are several reasons why you should avoid fat on a refeed.

1/ when you eat in surplus all the fat you eat is stored as bodyfat
2/ fat hikes up your calories higher than they would otherwise be hence you burn less fat
3/ fat has no effect on the hormones you want to bring back up.

nor do you have to refeed to fill glycogen. muscle glycogen is filled under 'normal' conditions as well if it's low.

I thought during a high carb low fat refeed, fat was preferentially burned, not stored

Sources Please

i'd also add that judging a book by its cover is not a good habit to get into. people can get results despite what they do (or say).

Agreed. Always verify what you read in posts with your own research. A lot of this is still new to me.... so sometimes I EFF up. . See ^^^^ but this is how I learn.

[Miranda]

I thought during a high carb low fat refeed, fat was preferentially burned, not stored

only if you're fully glycogen depleted.
muscle glycogen is like a sink where calories (from carbo) 'go'. given your body keeps humming as usual you will burn bodyfat because you won't utilise
the carbs you're eating for energy.

given it takes a lot of calories to fully refill glycogen you're in a surplus and in an overall anabolic state.

adding fat to the mix has no effect on glycogen storage per se but it has on calorie intake.

the calories above what you need to refill [from carbo] are used for energy production - hence less fat burning for energy.

dietary fat is stored directly as body fat so less net fat loss there will be. avoiding any type fat storage is something you may care about when very very lean.

different route same effect anyhow.

[acrawlingchaos]

....

OK thanks... I wasn't going crazy, that's what I thought.