Weightlifting Questions From a 5K Runner

[CockNotTrojan]

I have been doing a lot of reading over the past months on different workout plans and have found a lot of conflicting information. I figured with such a large and knowledgeable group here, I could get the answers I needed with personal explanation.

Background info:
1. Male, 19 years old, 160 pounds. College freshman.
2. I ran from 6th-12th grade, getting much more serious toward the end of high school. Was an 800m specialist (1:59). Ran 1600m (4:39) and 5,000m (16:52).
3. Took off first semester from working out to get adjusted to school and I regret it. I am now training to road race 5Ks but want weightlifting to be a serious part of it.
4. I have been an avid lifter since summer 2010. I would consider myself suitable for an "advanced" program but have a lot of issues developing my own program after having a trainer in high school.
5. I am set on the running program. I just need help on the lifting side of it.


Current plan:
Day 1 - Chest
Incline BB Press (12,10,8)
Flat DB Press (12,10,8)
Decline BB Press (12,10,8)
Incline DB Flye (12,10,8)
DB Pullover (15,12,10)


Day 2 - Biceps/Triceps
Skullcrusher (12,10,8)
Rope Pushdown (12,10,8)
Dips (3x15)
Spider Curls (3x15)
DB Curls (3x8)
Overhead Cable Curls (3x15)


Day 3 - Shoulders/Back
Arnold Press (10,8,6)
DB Side Press (10,10,10)
Seated Rear Cable Raise (12,10,10)
BB Front Raise (12,10,8)
Wide-Grip Pulldown (12,10,8)
Bent Over Row (12,10,8)
Barbell Shrug (12,10,8)


Day 4 - Legs
Free Squat (5x5)
Hamstring Curl (12,10,8)
Calf Raise (3x15)
Abductor (3x10)
Adductor (3x10)


I follow every workout with different core circuits to target upper,central,lower, and obliques.

I am starting to realize that this is pretty much a bodybuilder's routine. I was aiming for a workout that hit every part of each muscle just to develop overall strength. I figured having overall strength would be very beneficial for running. This is similar to the approach I did in high school and definitely saw positive results.


Questions
1. Is this workout beneficial for a runner? What could be changed?

2.What is the proper repetition range for Myofibrillar Hypertrophy? I definitely want to look good as a result, but I want it to be functional. I have been sticking around higher reps but have read in some places that is good for strength, and others that it is just good for size.

3.What is the proper rest time between sets? I know 30 seconds vs. 3 minutes does a world of difference. I have been staying consistent with 1.5 minutes between sets.

4. Do I need to add in exercises that use multiple muscles? All of these exercises are fairly isolated.

5. Should I look into any pre/post-workout supplements? I currently do a daily multi-vitamin and pure whey protein following each workout.

I sincerely appreciate the help! It means the world to me. I just want to do anything possible to improve.

[conradhpft]

Wow, where to start.

If you're really serious about becoming a talented runner, I suggest minimizing the "isolation" exercises. You're better off doing properly chosen compound lifts. Instead of having a chest day, a bis/tris day, AND a back/shoulders day, knock them into 2 days. A runner shouldn't be working upper body 3x per week. also, id space them apart from each other, in order to get maximal rest between strength sessions.

I'd suggest something like -

Day >1< - Chest, triceps, shoulders

Bench - 5 x 6-12 reps - lower reps for strength, higher reps for size.
Arnold press or OHP 4x8
DB pull-overs 3x8
Weighted dips 3x8

Day >3< - Back and Biceps

Weighted Pull-ups (chin above bar) 4x6-12
Bent over DB Row 4x8 each arm
Upright row 4x8
Reverse flys 3x15

Your other 2 days should focus on developing you core and lower body to better assist your running. Core is huge in distance running as is additional leg strength. I worked with an 800m runner during his senior year and helped him lower his 800m time from a 1:56 to a 1:53.

Day >2< - Legs and Core

Single-arm DB snatch or kettlebell swings - 4 x 8 (light-moderate weight)
Dead-lifts 5 x 5
Planks 3 x 1 min (make them harder by elevating hands and feet, alternating)
Leg-press 4x8 (single leg)
Hamstring Curls 3x12
10 min core work

Day >4< - Dynamic legs and core

Light-moderate weight Cleans 4 x 8
Hanging toes to hands
Light-weight squats 4x12 (working on range of motion), super-set with box jumps 4x6 jumps
Windshield wipers (for obliques) 3x10 super set with hip-flexor drills 3x10
Russian twists 3x10 super-set with RDLs 3x10


On lower body lifting days, avoid running withing 4 hours of your lift. Lift in the morning, and run in the evening if possible (or vice versa). As a 5k runner, you should be aiming for only 10-20 miles a week when you're developing strength. Closer to season, step a little away from heavy weights and hit more miles and more power/speed work.

You can't train it all at once, off-season is for strength development and endurance maintenance. Pre-season is for power and fitness level development (getting in better shape for your specific sport), and in-season should be devoted to running, with lifting for general maintenance only.



*Edit* - As for "Rest periods," it depends on intensity. Heavier lift days require greater recovery. Sets of 6 reps may need 3-4 min recovery between sets. Lighter sets of 12 could only need 1-2 min. For strength day, more rest isn't something to be afraid of. Push your "fitness level" and aerobic capacity when running, there is no benefit over-tiring yourself in the weight-room and loosing quality reps because you're tired. Ask yourself "if you wait 30 sec longer, could I get 1 more rep?" if the answer is yes, then wait. Quality matters for strength.

[CockNotTrojan]

Wow man, I really appreciate this. This is exactly what I am looking for!

Just for clarification:

Should I do these four days of lifting in succession, then take a day off then repeat? Or rather fit these 4 days into a given week?

Once again, thanks a bunch! Will definitely be switching over to this. It is great!

[conradhpft]

Wow man, I really appreciate this. This is exactly what I am looking for!

Just for clarification:

Should I do these four days of lifting in succession, then take a day off then repeat? Or rather fit these 4 days into a given week?

Once again, thanks a bunch! Will definitely be switching over to this. It is great!

Mon-Tue-off-Thurs-Fri-off-off

Use your off-days for active recovery (foam rolling, stretching, light mobility work) and some of your longer runs. On this 4-day split, Sunday make a great "performance training" day, where you get a good warm-up and run 2 miles at a quick 5k pace (about sub ~5:30 mile with your 5k time). Recover for 20-30 min, and repeat.

Listen to your body, if you're feeling over-tired, nagging injuries, or pain, be sure to give yourself some days off (except for foam rolling and mobility work). I take 1-2 days off every week. If I work all 7, I'll lighten up on the volume on at least half the days. Over-training can sneak up on you, especially when you try to do too much at once.

Edit- So, if you're doing most of your runs slower-paced, you're likely not over-stressing the body and could probably get away with more volume. If you're doing more "quality" intervals, like timed mile repeats, tempo runs, and fartleks, then you might do good to take some extra recovery. Remember, your program is only as good as your ability to recover from and adapt to it. High intensity means longer recover. Adjust your workouts accordingly.

[CockNotTrojan]

Awesome! Makes perfect sense. I will be rereading through this multiple times to ensure that I understand everything. Going to begin to adjust my program now.

Thanks again for taking the time to do this!

[TigOleBitties]

hey im not trying to jack thread but i have a question you guys might both be able to help me with. Ive been lifting for a little over a year now but just recently quit smoking about a month ago. So i started doing cardio and fell in love it. I decided i want to do a 5k which is coming up in febuary. So i dont want to stop lifting but i do want to make the 5k my primary goal. How should i train and incorperate the two from now until feb ? i was thinking like this.

Sun- medium instensity run
mon-rest
Tue - low instensity run
Wed-rest
Thurs medium-high intensity run
Fri-rest
Sat-res

Now where do incorperate the weight training?

I want to do a fullbody routine 2 or 3 days a week.

[lucas2]

I think you need to decide what is more important to you; running and improving your times, or getting bigger.

Weightlifting for hypertrophy is contradictory to long distance running. If weightlifting is your hobby, I'd suggest following a strength program focusing on the basic lifts, as gains in strength are largely neural adaptations, and hopefully won't negate your running times.

[jonmd123]

1. A bodybuilder workout will not benefit your running and will actually hurt your performance because of the extra 'dead weight'
2/3. 6-10 reps would be ideal for hypertrophy with :30-1:30 minute rest, but again it won't be very functional
4. Yes

Basically you're training your body one joint at a time and expecting it to function as one when it's time to perform. Athletes don't have "chest days" or "leg days." The chances are fairly high that you will injury yourself if you continue with that program.

[CockNotTrojan]

@TigOleBitties


If you are just now really starting to run, February is a little soon for a 5K. I would recommend mid-March, but if you are set on February, that is fine.

The ideal training program is broken up into phases. They vary based on the coach, but a generic one would be Base, Speed, Intervals. Look at how many weeks you have and divide it by three.

The first third of the phase is your "base" phase. You literally just want to pack miles on your body so you are conditioned and have a high endurance tolerance. I don't know your experience or history with running, but you should only have one to two days off. You would do a medium run Mon, Tues, Thurs, and Fri. This should be 25-35 minutes depending on your fitness. The pace should also depend on your fitness. It should be a good workout, but you should be able to have a decent conversation with someone next to you. You would have to stop to take breaths, but you could do it. Your Saturday run should be an "LSD" run. Slow down there.. not drugs. Long Slow Distance. It should be 45-60 minutes based on fitness. A nice, relaxed run where you could carry on a conversation.

The next phase is what I would call "speed." This involves about the same amount of mileage, but you want to throw in what we call fartleks. Monday and Thursday should be those moderate runs you saw in the base phase. Tuesday and Friday are your fartlek runs. They are a little shorter.. about 20 minutes at max. You alternate between a nice, comfortable running pace, into an intense, exertion pace. Mix it up a little with whats comfortable for you. I'd recommend keeping it simple since this is really your first time out training. Start with 2 minutes comfortable, and then immediately after that you bump up to 2 minutes at a pretty tough pace. As hard as you can go where you can last at that pace for 2 minutes. Then drop back down to 2 minutes comfortable, and back up til you reach 20 minutes. This can be interchanged with 'ladder' fartleks where you would go 1x1, 2x1, 2x2, 3x2, etc. Be creative but make sure you are getting a good mix of it. Saturday should be a moderate distance run.. between 30-45 min. Basically between the moderate base runs and the LSD.

Your final phase is a lot less mileage and more working on intervals and hills. Monday will be your hills day. Find a steep ass hill and do hill repeats on it. This is about POWER. Power up the hill. Find one where you can SPRINT up it for 1 minute straight. Then jog back down. Repeat this 10-12 times. Tuesday is your recovery day from that brutal workout. Do a comfortable 15-20 min run. Thursday is interval day. Do 5x1000m intervals. Divide your goal time in the 5K by 5 then make it a little faster. Let's say your goal is 20 minutes. That is 4 min/1000m. Try and complete each of these 1000m at 3:45-3:50 and give yourself 1-2 minutes rest in between. Friday is another recovery day, and Saturday is a moderate run like during base week.

Do the full body routine of lifting on Monday Wednesday and Friday during base phase. SUNDAY IS TOTALLY OFF. Monday Wednesday and Saturday during speed, and Tuesday, Wednesday, and Saturday during interval.

Try and find an exact midpoint in your training. If there is 8 weeks of training til race day, at the end of the 4th week do an all-out 5K time trial. This should give you an idea of where you are at and help you to set up your training for that interval phase.

Last thing -- on your final week leading up to the race, don't follow the standard interval plan. Switch the 5x1000m to Monday, do a recovery Tuesday, Wednesday off, and Thursday/Friday very light 15-20 min runs.

I know that was a lot at once, but I really hope this helps!

[NewlyImproved]

Said "speed" training is unnecessary for a beginner runner. Any kind of anaerobic or aerobic threshold training is a fast-track to injury and/or burnout without the proper aerobic base. I would say 3-4 days a week of just getting out the door should have a 200-pound person ready by February,easy.

To the OP, pick your battles. A few good things mentioned already were: stay away from isolation exercises and high rep failure training, squats, deadlifts, and an extra hamstring exercise are all you need. Also, be very careful trying to be an above average runner and weight train. Not only will the weight hurt you, your body has to deliver oxygen to the extra mass. I would recommend an unstructured, sub-maximal routine that consisted of just squats, front squats occasionally, and deadlifts. You will find you need to skip workouts every now and again to allow your legs to recover. I hope this helps.