fitting a crossfit/metabolic type workout into a BB split on a cut

[abendm]

Cliffs: Want to change a cardio day to something like 20 mins of kettlebell or some other more full body higher intensity type cardio... possible on a cut?

So, not sure if here or losing fat is correct forum for this one, but a buddy and I each started cutting in 2011. I started in August, he in Nov. He lost 20 more lb than me in three less months. He did crossfit, I lifted heavy. I enjoy lifting heavy, and know when it comes time to bulk I'll be at a much better spot than him, but I'm wondering if I might gain from doing more crossfit style ****. Right now doing an upper/lower split where I lift 3 days per week (with like 10-20 min cardio) and do some form of either longer cardio or HITT 2 or 3 days a week.

I was thinking tomorrow maybe doing like burpees supersetted with KB snatches and that rope jiggling noise for like 20 rounds. Is that going to **** with recovery more than regular cardio? The reason I ask is cuz I like doing HIIT on a treadmill/elliptical, but if I try and do it more than 1x a week it messes up leg day. This crossfit style workout would (hopefully be) as intense, but will spread some of that intensity to core and upper body rather than all in quads/glutes. I wouldn't think the KB snatches would matter too much... maybe like a 20 kg 'bell, when I deadlift/squat way more than that on leg day. Alternatively, I was also thinking of just doing circuit training on one of the non-lifting days and calling that a cardio day, but haven't tried it again due to recovery concerns. I know cardio isn't necessary on a cut etc., I'm not worried about overtraining generally, just want to make sure I'm fresh enough to lift heavy on the lifting days.

Here's that rope jiggling business I was talking about:

[Joe2DovesGiotto]

... a buddy and I each started cutting in 2011. I started in August, he in Nov. He lost 20 more lb than me in three less months. He did crossfit, I lifted heavy. I enjoy lifting heavy, and know when it comes time to bulk I'll be at a much better spot than him, but I'm wondering if I might gain from doing more crossfit style ****.

The improved cut result of your friend was not likely due to the kind of activity. There may have been diet factors involved, such as a steeper %-of-maintenance, or accuracy of cal tracking for either party. There may have been some metabolic factors as well. Extended cuts w/out any break can whack your system so it doesn't respond as effectively to the deficit after awhile -- and that impairment varies person-to-person.

If you want to try XFit, I'm not knocking it -- it's just unlikely as the source of your friend's success, if you were viewing it that way.

Are you still on a long-term, continuous cut w/out a break?

[SDFlip]

20 minutes of high intensity exercise done during a cut? goodbye gainzz.
high intensity+long duration=catabolic

recipe for disaster.

if you want to do a "functional movement" circuit, cut the time/rounds down. do tabatas or plan your rounds to be over in 8-10 min total.

if you want longer traditional "cardio" (LISS=low intensity/steady state), just row, jog, or jump on the stepmill. a long sled pull would be best if you want to go the "functional" route.

[abendm]

20 minutes of high intensity exercise done during a cut? goodbye gainzz.
high intensity+long duration=catabolic

recipe for disaster.

if you want to do a "functional movement" circuit, cut the time/rounds down. do tabatas or plan your rounds to be over in 8-10 min total.

if you want longer traditional "cardio" (LISS=low intensity/steady state), just row, jog, or jump on the stepmill. a long sled pull would be best if you want to go the "functional" route.

Yeah, should have been more specific, did it today act... only 10 rounds. It wasn't as intense as tabata style intervals either... jumping jacks, rope jiggling, and KB swings... those aint the same as balls to wall sprints. Not trying to be "functional," just trying to do cardio that involves more than just the major leg musculature. You really think a crossfit type workout would erase gains so substantially? As I sort of hint below, I trained 2x/week for an endurance event and was still able to up my deadlift on a mini-bulk... and I'd be riding my bike for like 3 hours on those days... but I've never really bulked substantially, so maybe it'd be different with muscle gained on a bulk (i.e., I have no experience, I get the impression you do, I'm actually askign here).

The improved cut result of your friend was not likely due to the kind of activity. There may have been diet factors involved, such as a steeper %-of-maintenance, or accuracy of cal tracking for either party. There may have been some metabolic factors as well. Extended cuts w/out any break can whack your system so it doesn't respond as effectively to the deficit after awhile -- and that impairment varies person-to-person.

If you want to try XFit, I'm not knocking it -- it's just unlikely as the source of your friend's success, if you were viewing it that way.

Are you still on a long-term, continuous cut w/out a break?

Didn't want to post wall-o-text, but actually, his cut was continuous without a break. I've actually had refeeds, 2 week breaks, and even had about 1.5 months above maintenance when training for a 42 mile bike tour in NYC. I kind of forgot about that, so yeah, not dieting for prob 2 months total would affect fat loss... der. But it's def not a metabolic/hormone thing; all levels fine. I also get the impression that he may have been on a more drastic deficit than I have ever been (outside of my brief experiment with RFL), but I don't know. I'm just getting tired of cutting. I started as a whale 16 or so mos ago, and I've been stuck at 4-pack for a while now... thought full-body cardio might be a way to jumpstart improved cutting.

[bevans100fitnes]

The improved cut result of your friend was not likely due to the kind of activity. There may have been diet factors involved, such as a steeper %-of-maintenance, or accuracy of cal tracking for either party. There may have been some metabolic factors as well. Extended cuts w/out any break can whack your system so it doesn't respond as effectively to the deficit after awhile -- and that impairment varies person-to-person.

If you want to try XFit, I'm not knocking it -- it's just unlikely as the source of your friend's success, if you were viewing it that way.

Are you still on a long-term, continuous cut w/out a break?

I disagree. Fat is lost much faster with intervals which is why they are usually used by football, wrestling programs as well as fitness models.

I think oovertraining is MUCH more of an issue with upper body intervals... Including battling ropes, burpees, and hitting the heavy bag has much more of an effect on weight workouts.... the muscles are smaller, and therefore have to be worked closer to failure to get an anaerobic cardio workout.

When using legs, the sprints, stairs, jumping rope (usually isn't intense enough unless u are very heavy), etc....
Usually with legs you can gain some strength in the higher rep ranges (20 reps sets etc) from hiit(as long as it uses the same muscles, and the way to mitigate overtraining is to reduce # of sets or exercises on your lower body lifting day, and also go heavier, because you are working on coniditioning of the glutes, quads, and hams on a separate day (hiit)).

If you are worried about going too catabolic during workout, there are very effective supplements to fix this.
Hiit works via increases in igf-1 so any supplements that claim to "boost hgh" will be particularly effective while employing hiit.
Example: niacin, arginine, ornithine, bcaas, l-dopa, gaba (at night), alpha gpc etc etc....

[bevans100fitnes]

However, before we argue about my disagreement, it should be pointed out that the bigger you are (muscle mass wise), the more "at-risk" you are for losing muscle.

You can put a skinny twerp on an hiit routine and they will get bigger, bodybuilders don't do them because they will lose muscle.

My personal experience is that hiit is less likely to cause the athlete to lose muscle mass than steady state cardio. It is also my experience that creating a kcal deficit through dieting and maintaing "inactivity" is less likely to cause muscle loss than hiit or SS cardio

Hiit is a useful tool if you are on a quest for low bf % and CHO metabolism, nutrient partitioning, and insulin sensitivity (all different names for the same thing)... is your worst enemy.

Hiit bumps up igf-1. Weight training bumps up test. Bumping both simulataneously, if you can do it without overtraining and creating excessive cortisol, will give you a different metabolism than you are used to working with. For me personally, hiit at least doubled the amount of carbs i could eat.... Or it cut in half my "set point" bodyfat % that i would return to when finished dieting, depending on how u look at it.

[bevans100fitnes]

Oh, and lastly before any posts are misunderstood... I, in no way, support an hour of hiit. MAX 30 minutes, if even. If you want an hour fat loss workout, that utlizes hiit, do 10-25 minutes hiit, followed by a 30 minute walk on the treadmill, followed by stretching and hot tub (all 3 will increase recovery)..

The above poster was right that high intensity cardio+long duration=muscle loss.

Key with hiit is when duration passes 15-20 minutes, its time to increase speed, weight, or resistance. NEVER increase duration.

^^The above is my main beef with crossfit. All studies show hiit most beneficial in short time periods... They just have to make it an hour because it makes their program more marketable.

IMAGINE: "Yeah just pay us $160 a month for unlimited 20 minute workouts..."
customer: "Is he serious?"

[Joe2DovesGiotto]

"loquaciously random stuff"

Was referring specifically to OP's observation of his friend's cut results vs. his own, and the variance of their two programs.

[sharkinfishtank]

crossfit is for girls. you are girls