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  1. #61
    Meathead drudixon's Avatar
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    I see micromanaging as more flipping out because you're 10mg short on zinc for the day.
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  2. #62
    community gym PT KyleAaron's Avatar
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    I think our training and diet are like everything else we do, an expression of our personality.

    Some people like to micromanage. Some of them like to micromanage because this gets them particular results, some of them like to micromanage because they like to micromanage. The first lot will get results, the second lot will not.

    It's the same as the way some people will always choose to do a particular exercise. Some do that because they've found it gives them the results they want, some do that because they enjoy that exercise, and they'll continue doing it even if it gives them the exact opposite result they desire. Some enjoy the process as they achieve their goals, some enjoy the process whether they achieve their goals or not. The former will change what they do based on results, the latter will not.

    This is something I had to learn when I started working in gyms. Most people don't have a goal, they just feel some sort of obligation to "work out." Thus when we try to get them to do some routine or diet, it's like trying to sell a street directory to a guy going for a Sunday drive. He doesn't actually want to go anywhere, he just wants to drive, so he doesn't need directions.
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  3. #63
    Banned -=FLEX=-'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KyleAaron View Post
    Most people don't have a goal, they just feel some sort of obligation to "work out." Thus when we try to get them to do some routine or diet, it's like trying to sell a street directory to a guy going for a Sunday drive. He doesn't actually want to go anywhere, he just wants to drive, so he doesn't need directions.
    That was a good analogy.
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  4. #64
    Finally accused of juicin Corbi's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cmoore View Post

    I hate you for being to actually stand up on a Flow Rider, I tried 7-8 times and think I may have spent 30 seconds total time actually upright
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  5. #65
    Ripped Van Winkle IronCharles's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Vanguard1965 View Post
    I think that's the wrong question. Tracking macro's or tracking your workouts is not the big chore or massive amount of work its being made out to be.....

    Why the choice of the word micromanage?
    Because when I do it, it's a chore. Yes, I have a lot of experience with meal planning, and figuring out the nutrient breakdown and caloric value of every bite I put into my mouth. I know very well how to eat to lose. I have lost 40 pounds in 12 weeks (winning a transformation contest that was my motivation), and I have also done slower cuts, trying to figure out how to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. And the one thing I have learned is, I can't put on muscle nearly as fast when dieting, as I can when tracking protein only. Some of you guys and gals may have no problems at all eating "clean" 24/7/52/365. If you enjoy walking the tightrope between lean and muscle gain, then more power to you. It's not for me! I like eating out, I like eating treats, and I'm not going to go hungry the rest of the day if I want to eat some cake and ice cream. And I'm not going to eat brown rice, sweet potatoes, skinless chicken breasts and tuna for the rest of my life, either.

    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    At dinner, I ALWAYS eat what we are eating as a family. It does not matter if I am on surplus or deficit.....I make our family dinners fit in to my eating plans. Pizza, pasta, even Chick-fil-a nights,.....I eat what the kids eat and we do it as a family. Of course my portions change, and nights like pizza night, while on a deficit, take a little planning....but I make it work....and have gotten pretty good at it.
    Not everyone can eat like that, and still lose weight. And it's even harder for those of us who rely on our own testosterone and other hormones for muscle gain and fat loss. Some folks even look at a pizza, and they gain weight. And especially folks prepping for a contest! I can't imagine Bo_Flecks was eating pizza and Chick-fil-A with his family every night before he got on stage and brought home his trophy.
    Last edited by IronCharles; 12-23-2012 at 04:55 PM.
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  6. #66
    Registered User acrawlingchaos's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronCharles View Post
    Some of you guys and gals may have no problems at all eating "clean" 24/7/52/365. If you enjoy walking the tightrope between lean and muscle gain, then more power to you. It's not for me! I like eating out, I like eating treats, and I'm not going to go hungry the rest of the day if I want to eat some cake and ice cream. And I'm not going to eat brown rice, sweet potatoes, skinless chicken breasts and tuna for the rest of my life, either.
    Me too, and I have zero problem doing all the above on an IIFYM plan and prefer IF when dropping weight.

    Tracking calories =/= eating "clean".

    Tracking WAS a pain in the ass, but once I got my routine nailed down, it was easy. It literally takes me about 2-3 minutes to track my daily numbers.
    Last edited by acrawlingchaos; 12-23-2012 at 05:23 PM.
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  7. #67
    Ripped Van Winkle IronCharles's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    Me too, and I have zero problem doing all the above on an IIFYM plan and prefer IF when dropping weight.

    Tracking calories =/= eating "clean".

    Tracking IS a pain in the ass, but once I got my routine nailed down, it was easy. It literally takes me about 2-3 minutes to track my daily numbers.
    It all boils down to what your goals are, I guess. It seems a lot here enjoy being lean, for the sake of being lean. I'm not one of them. I'm very goal oriented, and my goal is to put on as much mass as possible, and eventually compete on stage.... preferably sooner than later. I won't be one of the guys you see at every show that people wonder, "What's that guy doing onstage?". And so, as far as my long term goals go, it's counter productive for me to be anywhere near a state that I could potentially be leaving something on the table. I know from experience that it's hard, if not impossible to put on quality mass while eating at a deficit (for the natural lifter). So, I am glad for the cutting experience I've gained, and I know that learning what my body requires to lean out is invaluable when it comes time to get serious...... but in all honesty? I wish I had those cutting months back, because I know I would be that much further ahead in my ultimate mass gains.
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  8. #68
    Registered User acrawlingchaos's Avatar
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    I don't think it was a waste. An educational experience is NEVER a waste. I would rather have the down time where I wasn't moving in ANY direction.





    But now this becomes a matter of preference.... and not a matter of right and wrong.
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  9. #69
    Barbarian Warrior Vanguard1965's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronCharles View Post
    Because when I do it, it's a chore. Yes, I have a lot of experience with meal planning, and figuring out the nutrient breakdown and caloric value of every bite I put into my mouth. I know very well how to eat to lose. I have lost 40 pounds in 12 weeks (winning a transformation contest that was my motivation), and I have also done slower cuts, trying to figure out how to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. And the one thing I have learned is, I can't put on muscle nearly as fast when dieting, as I can when tracking protein only. Some of you guys and gals may have no problems at all eating "clean" 24/7/52/365. If you enjoy walking the tightrope between lean and muscle gain, then more power to you. It's not for me! I like eating out, I like eating treats, and I'm not going to go hungry the rest of the day if I want to eat some cake and ice cream. And I'm not going to eat brown rice, sweet potatoes, skinless chicken breasts and tuna for the rest of my life, either.
    Interesting you think I eat clean 24/7/52/365. What does eating clean even mean?

    When I am in contest prep you damn straight I hit my macros 100%. Not sticking to my macros or cheating here and there might make the difference of first or last and I will do everything in my power to come in as shreaded as I can, I am not going to sabatoge my efforts.

    In my off season I track everything I eat for 4 of my 5 meals and then eat dinner with whatever my family is eating. I ball park the macros for that meal and every Friday night I have a cheat meal usually 2 to 3 slices of pizza. When I adjust my macros it's for the 4 meals I do track. So I am not suggesting you eat only brown rice, sweet potatoes, skinless chicken breast and tuna. In fact I eat none of that. Right now for the next three days I am going to enjoy some extra treats and not worry or care because I am decent with my food intake the majority of the time. I think I have a good healthy balance where I gain .5 to 1 lbs a week when I am in my off season and lose 1 to 1.5 lbs a week when I am in contest prep.

    I said from the beginning that there are many ways to train and eat and as long as you are getting the results you want that's great, keep doing what your doing. I am happy with the results I am getting and I don't feel I'm OCD or micromanaging anything.
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  10. #70
    that **** cray koolskool's Avatar
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    Epic thread.
    I am analytical by nature. Also love experimenting.
    I find that workout wise, I like to track the numbers. I dont over-analyse, but I like to have the data handy. It works for me, and I enjoy it--- most of the time.

    Nutrition wise.... meh. I have to eat so many calories in order to gain, it becomes more of a chore and a headache.
    Trying to eat 4.5k cal a day-or more- everyday is going to be my nemesis. I dont need to track macros, my diet is naturally excellent in macro breakdown---I just need so damn many calories.
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  11. #71
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronCharles View Post
    ...
    Not everyone can eat like that, and still lose weight. And it's even harder for those of us who rely on our own testosterone and other hormones for muscle gain and fat loss. Some folks even look at a pizza, and they gain weight. And especially folks prepping for a contest!

    Responding to the bold above.

    IC...this is one of the frusturations I feel often. The weight loss and progress I show below, was PRIOR to starting HRT. I did this with sub-clinical test levels (unknowingly) Not only that, I was Hypo thyroid. That is the one-two punch against weight loss....yet amazingly the laws of thermodynamics work. Eat less then you burn and you lose weight.

    Sorry....it is not true that some people just look at pizza and get fat. What it is, is most people to not portion correctly and eat more then they burn. There is no food that makes you 'fat'. Too many calories does. It really is that simple.

    I have posted this 1,000,000 times....but this is what proper nutrition does. With low T and hypo thyriod. There really are no excuses. Apply some basic principles and follow them. The weight loss will happen....it has to.

    This was less then 3 months of getting my act together from a nutritional standpoint. Almost zero cardio training as well.






    I can't imagine Bo_Flecks was eating pizza and Chick-fil-A with his family every night before he got on stage and brought home his trophy.
    Contest shape is a different story....and I am no where close to that. But I dont know if you think Cmoore is lean.....judging by the quote above, I can tell you obviously dont follow his journal. He does not feel confined to eat what some people call "clean" food. Same with Kane (timberwolf). Cutting on BK whoppers. It is seeing others do this that opened my eyes.

    I am below 10% atm....and have not dropped icecream, pizza, nor pasta or chocolate from my diet. Still leaning out.
    Last edited by induced_drag; 12-23-2012 at 06:06 PM.
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  12. #72
    Barbarian Warrior Vanguard1965's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronCharles View Post
    It all boils down to what your goals are, I guess. It seems a lot here enjoy being lean, for the sake of being lean. I'm not one of them. I'm very goal oriented, and my goal is to put on as much mass as possible, and eventually compete on stage.... preferably sooner than later. I won't be one of the guys you see at every show that people wonder, "What's that guy doing onstage?". And so, as far as my long term goals go, it's counter productive for me to be anywhere near a state that I could potentially be leaving something on the table. I know from experience that it's hard, if not impossible to put on quality mass while eating at a deficit (for the natural lifter). So, I am glad for the cutting experience I've gained, and I know that learning what my body requires to lean out is invaluable when it comes time to get serious...... but in all honesty? I wish I had those cutting months back, because I know I would be that much further ahead in my ultimate mass gains.
    Charles watch this as it explains things far better then I can. You have to build muscle in a calorie surplus but you want to do so to minimize the amount of fat you also put on at the same time. Hence why to do this you need to track your macro's. Mind you this is coming from the perspective of someone who has already dieted down for a show but it applies to anyone wanting to gain lean muscle.










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  13. #73
    Registered User acrawlingchaos's Avatar
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    ID makes a good point. I personally 100% credit counting calories with allowing myself more food choices. Having target macros makes fitting "junk" into your diet pretty freaking easy.
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  14. #74
    Ripped Van Winkle IronCharles's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    But now this becomes a matter of preference.... and not a matter of right and wrong.
    It never was about right and wrong. It's about why some people track, count, manage cals and training more than others, and the reasoning behind those methods.

    Originally Posted by Vanguard1965 View Post
    Interesting you think I eat clean 24/7/52/365. What does eating clean even mean?
    I should have said "manage in great detail" (as micro manage seems to raise some hackles, for some reason). Sure, I can understand you "ballparking" it in the off season. But as you say, you are 100% on it during contest prep. If that's not eating clean, what is?

    I understand the different modes of the competitor. Very strict management and monitoring during contest prep, and less strict or instinctive eating in the off season. What I am most interested in is the motivation behind year-round rigid diet manipulation of the non-competitor, and the reasoning for wanting to be ripped at all times. Is it mostly formerly obese people, who are so afraid of getting back to that state, that they will work extra hard to remain on the opposite end of the spectrum? Or is there a fear of not being able to control certain things in one's life, so there is extra emphasis on maintaining a strict rein on that which we CAN control, such as our health and appearance? Or is it simply a desire to do something that the vast majority don't have the willpower to succeed at?

    Extreme leanness is not a natural state. Neither is extreme musculature. Left to it's own devices, the body will seek middle ground, for it's own self preservation. It's interesting to consider why we put so much time and effort into trying to force our bodies into states of being that are not normal for us.
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    Ripped Van Winkle IronCharles's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    I am below 10% atm....and have not dropped icecream, pizza, nor pasta or chocolate from my diet. Still leaning out.
    Well, if you still have low test levels on HRT, and eat Chick-fil-A and pizza with the family on a regular basis, are bigger than 95% of the posters here, and are still leaning out, then I'd say you are just a freak of nature. Perhaps you should draw blood and sell it on the open market! You'd get rich in no time. There are about a billion people on the planet who would like to have that kind of success! The Anabolic Fast Food diet just doesn't work for 99% of us.
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    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronCharles View Post
    Well, if you still have low test levels on HRT, and eat Chick-fil-A and pizza with the family on a regular basis, are bigger than 95% of the posters here, and are still leaning out, then I'd say you are just a freak of nature. Perhaps you should draw blood and sell it on the open market! You'd get rich in no time. There are about a billion people on the planet who would like to have that kind of success!
    I am not sure why you are so hung up on hrt. My experiences cutting now are the same as they were prior to hrt. Only thing I notice now is my maintenance went up about 100-150 cal per day. TRT has corrected my hypo thyroid as my Dr thought it would.

    My body temp used to be a full degree low. I now run normal body temps.....hence the higher calorie burn then before.

    Other then that....cutting or bulking for that matter is no different. I track my cals....if I eat less I lose weight, if I eat more, I gain it. Pretty simple.....


    I am interested to see if over time TRT will help with fat patterns.....but I don't think it will make a big impact on me since I only lived with low t for 3 years (post head injury). So it is not as if my body lived in a vastly different hormonal state for decades...etc. If that were the case, I would think I might see changes....but prior to my accident, I don't think I had hormonal issues.
    Last edited by induced_drag; 12-23-2012 at 06:44 PM.
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    Originally Posted by IronCharles View Post
    What I am most interested in is the motivation behind year-round rigid diet manipulation of the non-competitor, and the reasoning for wanting to be ripped at all times. Is it mostly formerly obese people, who are so afraid of getting back to that state, that they will work extra hard to remain on the opposite end of the spectrum? Or is there a fear of not being able to control certain things in one's life, so there is extra emphasis on maintaining a strict rein on that which we CAN control, such as our health and appearance? Or is it simply a desire to do something that the vast majority don't have the willpower to succeed at?
    Maybe they do it to prove they can. Same reason I pick up 8 plates once when repping 6 is just as effective. I don't have any love for the skeleton physique, but the guys here lift, and some put up good numbers. I have a lot more respect for them than all the "talkers".
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    Lifting has always been pretty straightforward but the only times I've had success dropping weight is when I track my calories. If I don't, I overeat.
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    Corpsman 91-99 & forever cmoore's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronCharles View Post
    It all boils down to what your goals are, I guess. It seems a lot here enjoy being lean, for the sake of being lean. I'm not one of them. I'm very goal oriented, and my goal is to put on as much mass as possible, and eventually compete on stage.... preferably sooner than later. I won't be one of the guys you see at every show that people wonder, "What's that guy doing onstage?". And so, as far as my long term goals go, it's counter productive for me to be anywhere near a state that I could potentially be leaving something on the table. I know from experience that it's hard, if not impossible to put on quality mass while eating at a deficit (for the natural lifter). So, I am glad for the cutting experience I've gained, and I know that learning what my body requires to lean out is invaluable when it comes time to get serious...... but in all honesty? I wish I had those cutting months back, because I know I would be that much further ahead in my ultimate mass gains.
    How much mass have you gained in the last year? I would love to see some update pics.

    As for the PITA of tracking, there is a certain amount of "suck it up" required. It's not that hard. Given your goals I'm always confused by your resistance to such a simple task.
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    Originally Posted by IronCharles View Post

    I should have said "manage in great detail" (as micro manage seems to raise some hackles, for some reason). Sure, I can understand you "ballparking" it in the off season. But as you say, you are 100% on it during contest prep. If that's not eating clean, what is?
    Its called dedication to ones goal and hitting your caloric macros for the day. Clean eating for many is the type of food you eat. No processed food only whole organic food. People who follow IIFYM eat anything but clean but do hit their macros and do get shreaded,

    Originally Posted by IronCharles View Post
    I understand the different modes of the competitor. Very strict management and monitoring during contest prep, and less strict or instinctive eating in the off season. What I am most interested in is the motivation behind year-round rigid diet manipulation of the non-competitor, and the reasoning for wanting to be ripped at all times. Is it mostly formerly obese people, who are so afraid of getting back to that state, that they will work extra hard to remain on the opposite end of the spectrum? Or is there a fear of not being able to control certain things in one's life, so there is extra emphasis on maintaining a strict rein on that which we CAN control, such as our health and appearance? Or is it simply a desire to do something that the vast majority don't have the willpower to succeed at?
    Well the answer to that would be very different for each indvidual and probalby hit several different areas you listed. For me there is a sense of pride that comes from having a body at 47 that the majority of 20 years old don't have. I like proving that many of the things people take as fact are actually complete and utter BS.

    Originally Posted by IronCharles View Post
    Extreme leanness is not a natural state. Neither is extreme musculature. Left to it's own devices, the body will seek middle ground, for it's own self preservation. It's interesting to consider why we put so much time and effort into trying to force our bodies into states of being that are not normal for us.
    Define normal and extreme leanness?
    Last edited by Vanguard1965; 12-23-2012 at 06:55 PM.
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  21. #81
    Registered User themyth2009's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cmoore View Post
    How much mass have you gained in the last year? I would love to see some update pics.

    As for the PITA of tracking, there is a certain amount of "suck it up" required. It's not that hard. Given your goals I'm always confused by your resistance to such a simple task.
    Never tracked a thing in my life. I would gladly post updated pics prior to my heart problems. I never took lifting videos but at 190ish I do have a raw dead of no straps and no belt of 495. I was just starting deads to. I benched 335 for 3 reps in January. I have done deads in the mid 5's. Also squatted over 500.

    This isnt rocket science. I think tracking has to do more with personality type than being lazy.
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    Corpsman 91-99 & forever cmoore's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by themyth2009 View Post
    Never tracked a thing in my life. I would gladly post updated pics prior to my heart problems. I never took lifting videos but at 190ish I do have a raw dead of no straps and no belt of 495. I was just starting deads to. I benched 335 for 3 reps in January. I have done deads in the mid 5's. Also squatted over 500.

    This isnt rocket science. I think tracking has to do more with personality type than being lazy.
    I think you read into my post too much. Read my first post in this thread. If it works for you great, for those that don't improve instinctively, they should reevaluate.
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  23. #83
    Ripped Van Winkle IronCharles's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    I am not sure why you are so hung up on hrt.
    Maybe because you're so hung up on preaching that it has nothing to do with your gains? And it's funny that hundreds of natural bodybuilding judges around the world would ban you from competition for being on it..... even if your levels would be in "normal" range. Seems so unfair of them, doesn't it? What do they know, that you don't?


    Originally Posted by cmoore View Post
    How much mass have you gained in the last year? I would love to see some update pics.

    As for the PITA of tracking, there is a certain amount of "suck it up" required. It's not that hard. Given your goals I'm always confused by your resistance to such a simple task.
    The latest pic I have is on the first page of your This Week thread. It's from July. I don't have anything newer than that at the moment.

    It's not necessarily the tracking I have an issue with, it's the limiting of portion size and what I can and cannot eat in order to get leaner. I enjoy food, and limiting myself to what and how much of certain things I can eat is not a sacrifice I need to make at this time. And you must have misunderstood..... getting leaner and tracking food is not necessary for my current goals. All I monitor is making sure I have enough protein available for growth at all times, and a reasonable amount of fat and carbs for fuel.

    Originally Posted by Vanguard1965 View Post
    Define normal and extreme leanness?
    Normal would be your body's natural fat setpoint. Extreme is forcing it to stay leaner than it would on it's own.
    Last edited by IronCharles; 12-23-2012 at 07:16 PM.
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  24. #84
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by themyth2009 View Post
    Never tracked a thing in my life. I would gladly post updated pics prior to my heart problems. I never took lifting videos but at 190ish I do have a raw dead of no straps and no belt of 495. I was just starting deads to. I benched 335 for 3 reps in January. I have done deads in the mid 5's. Also squatted over 500.

    This isnt rocket science. I think tracking has to do more with personality type than being lazy.
    Myth

    I believe you 100%. I think you might be one of the very few that can pull it off., I know for sure I can't! If I could , I would for sure.

    Myth is an appropriate name for you.

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  25. #85
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronCharles View Post
    and what I can and cannot eat to get leaner. .
    Are you really saying certain foods make you "fat"?

    Sorry man......eaten at the same caloric level, getting all your daily carbs from table sugar is no different (from a composition standpoint) as getting all your carbs from oatmeal and sweet potatoes.

    Eat more then you burn and you gain weight....eat less....you lose it. Pizza, pasta or oatmeal.....it does not matter.

    Getting to contest levels is somewhat different from what I have heard.....but just sub 10% with abs....IIFYM works just fine
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  26. #86
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    Originally Posted by cmoore View Post
    I think you read into my post too much. Read my first post in this thread. If it works for you great, for those that don't improve instinctively, they should reevaluate.
    I am lazy so could be guilty as charge.

    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    Myth

    I believe you 100%. I think you might be one of the very few that can pull it off., I know for sure I can't! If I could , I would for sure.

    Myth is an appropriate name for you.

    Look forward to watching you smash the odd once again moving forward!

    SRS man.....most people can't do what you did....at least I haven't seen many
    For as many years as I put into I often felt like I didnt get enough results.

    Thanks for well wishes but I dont think it is going to happen for me. It seems like I am starting to get worse again.
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  27. #87
    Ripped Van Winkle IronCharles's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    Are you really saying certain foods make you "fat"?
    Surely you're not serious? Anybody can eat pizza and ice cream and lose weight, but personally, I'd be a hungry mofo on that diet. Certain foods will make you fat, if you eat the same amount of them as you would "cleaner" foods. People don't get fat because of what they eat, they get fat because they eat too much of it. A person can go from 150 to 400 lbs eating nothing but lean chicken breast and steel cut oats, if they eat enough of them.


    I don't have any current goals that would require me to go hungry, or select from a limited amount of less tasty foods.
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  28. #88
    Corpsman 91-99 & forever cmoore's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronCharles View Post
    The latest pic I have is on the first page of your This Week thread. It's from July. I don't have anything newer than that at the moment.

    It's not necessarily the tracking I have an issue with, it's the limiting of portion size and what I can and cannot eat in order to get leaner. I enjoy food, and limiting myself to what and how much of certain things I can eat is not a sacrifice I need to make at this time. And you must have misunderstood..... getting leaner and tracking food is not necessary for my current goals. All I monitor is making sure I have enough protein available for growth at all times, and a reasonable amount of fat and carbs for fuel.
    Gotcha. You talk about competing one day so that's where I was confused.
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  29. #89
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronCharles View Post
    Surely you're not serious? Anybody can eat pizza and ice cream and lose weight, but personally, I'd be a hungry mofo on that diet.
    Well....you have to suck it up and be hungry then..... Losing weight is not easy. Your body 'knows' you are not eating enough, and tells you in many ways it wants more food. It is up to you to overcome that. There is no diet that will make you feel full as hell and satisfied all the time AND lose weight. You have to want it enough to ignore the hunger. No body said it was easy.


    Certain foods will make you fat, if you eat the same amount of them as you would "cleaner" foods.
    People don't get fat because of what they eat, they get fat because they eat too much of it. A person can go from 150 to 400 lbs eating nothing but lean chicken breast and steel cut oats, if they eat enough of them.

    .

    I know you are a smart guy....but you are saying two polar opposites....one false, and one correct. The first statement is incorrect, the second 100% dead on.

    The first statement, Certain foods will make you fat if you eat the same amount of them, is incorrect from a calorie comparison standpoint. Now if you are talking calorie density and measuring by volume....well then of course....a cup of butter has a lot more calories then a cup of popcorn. I dont think people think of 'volume' when measuring food consumption but rather calorie count, so you confuse me.
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  30. #90
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronCharles View Post
    .... getting leaner and tracking food is not necessary for my current goals. All I monitor is making sure I have enough protein available for growth at all times, and a reasonable amount of fat and carbs for fuel.
    ..

    Charles,

    On the point above.....tracking is not just about being lean....it also applies to surplus and gaining.

    If you think of trying to gain weight and LBM you ALWAYS want there to be a slight surplus of cals. EVERYDAY...day in and day out. This way, your body always has the fuel to grow. If done like you state....there are some days you are over, some under, some WAY over some way under. On the way over days, your body stores much of it as fat. On the way under days, your body may not build muscle in response to the training stimulus you provide working out, because it does not have the fuel. Simply getting protein is not the only part of the puzzle.

    Doing it in a haphazard manner, in my opinion is MUCH less efficient then a sustained and planned daily surplus of +/- 200-250 cal (for a guy further along in their training). In the end you will gain less body fat and more muscle over the same period of time on a planned surplus. I have done this for as much as 5 months straight with very little fat gain, and increasing muscle steadily. I could watch the scale move every week like clockwork.


    If your main goal is to gain mass, and you are not seeing the scale move on a weekly or bi-weekly basis, you are witnessing the inefficiencies of a shotgun approach to nutrition. How much weight have you gained in the last two weeks?....last two months?...
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