Ask a "successful" personal trainer/small business owner anything

[KyleAaron]

I have nothing to add, as opening your own fitness business is something I'm not experienced in. I just want to say excellent thread, SageFit. Good and honest information.

Your hours are madness

[SageFit]

Very cool thread. Just one question, well 2 really, can you get me a green card and a job? j/k. Props for the thread though.

How do you go about marketing yourself in, what i assume from my experience in edinburgh, is a massively competitive market?

When it comes down to it the only marketing a trainer has is his successful clients. If you can't get results then you have nothing. Aside from that the only marketing is making yourself known. So, if it's just about making yourself known then you have to just approach it with "which one will make more people know my name for the cost?". For me that's internet, social networking and speaking directly to clients about it. You'd be suprised how helpful clients are with marketing if you actually ask them to. Tell them to bring friends, etc.

We also put time and effort into our websites as you can see, as well any kind of paper material such as pamphlets and postcards and business cards. Make the things look good, your name is attached to it. Let me show you an example of what i'm talking about. Take a look at my business cards 1.png2.png[

[napeHbNYC]

How do you assess your client first time? Besides signing the waiver and asking goals. Do you give them diet guidelines or only if they ask? Ask for their preferences towards the excersise? Allow them to participate in creating a programm or they trust you to do that typically? Thank you again

[SageFit]

How do you assess your client first time? Besides signing the waiver and asking goals. Do you give them diet guidelines or only if they ask? Ask for their preferences towards the excersise? Allow them to participate in creating a programm or they trust you to do that typically? Thank you again

When I have a client I explain our program and how we go about fitness. We also put people through our own fitness test which is a mix of rowing, KB swings if they can do them properly, squats if they can't, and assisted dips. It's actually a fast paced and hard workout but nothing where people will hurt themselves. It shows us their fitness level but more importantly how hard we can push them, let's us know the person. They can always tell me what they want to work on the most but otherwise the program is determined by the trainer. I tell them what they want/need, they just agree or disagree. I've learned that the trainer needs to take charge, rather then asking a lot of questions. You can still be nice but you need to tell clients what they need to do to get what they want, not ask them what they want to do to get what they want. We have a waiver and that's it, after that the trainers determine the rest through observation of basic movements. As for diet I always bring it up. If a client tells me "I eat fine, I just don't exercise" I always come back with "no, you don't, or you wouldn't be here. You could easily lose weight with diet alone so tell me what you're really eating". Things of that nature. I'm friendly and nice but i'm also extremely tough with them.

[BodyQuest1]

Thanks for sharing your story of success. Very inspirational! We should have more of you in this forum! :P How old were you when you first started personal training and did you work at a local public gym? And when did you transition to just doing inhome training or training those clients you got from the gym?

Also
what do you mean by:
"Even though my first makes a large amount of money it isn't nearly as good as it should be due to high costs and rent. 72,000 is out the door immediately due to rent. It sucks lol"

^^Do you mean you spend just $72k for rent of facility alone?? :O

[NorwichGrad]

Sage,

Excellent thread and great job running a successful business. This is one of the most informative threads I've seen in the PT section.

A. How many trainers work for you?
B. How did you go through the selection process when you hired them?
C. You mentioned Crossfit. From a business perspective, do you feel like you are competing with them? Or do you feel that your services are a great way to 'supplement' a Crossfiter's training, therefore you are more or less a business partner instead of comperitor? (Hope the question makes sense.) Here is what I'm getting at, Sage. My niche is Olympic lifting / sports performance. Crossfiters do some Oly. There are two boxes in my area. I have tried in the past to partner with them so I could help them with technique work to improve their lifts. I was only able to recruit one CFer, so I dropped the idea of partnership. So I guess the question is
D. Do you offer something that other places don't?

Thanks for your time.

[SageFit]

Thanks for sharing your story of success. Very inspirational! We should have more of you in this forum! :P How old were you when you first started personal training and did you work at a local public gym? And when did you transition to just doing inhome training or training those clients you got from the gym?

Also
what do you mean by:
"Even though my first makes a large amount of money it isn't nearly as good as it should be due to high costs and rent. 72,000 is out the door immediately due to rent. It sucks lol"

^^Do you mean you spend just $72k for rent of facility alone?? :O

Before I answer this I want to also add something to this thread.
The fact im in New York plays a huge role in all of this. The area im in is upper-middle class with a local population of 100,000. The new facility has a much higher volume location but slightly lower income. Just remember though, personal training is a luxury and we have to look at it as one. If you're thinking of opening in the middle of a rural village and getting enough people to make something, you're going to be sadly dissapointed.

Anyways I started training at 19, opened my first facility at 24. I started working at a small personal training center, not too disimilar from my own. Working there gave me a good start in dealing with people and from the business end it showed me everything NOT to do. Over the course of 3 years they lost a lot of clients to me because of their customer service. They're been around for 16 years and still had to downgrade their facility. Customer service my friends, it means everything.

Yes rent alone costs 72k. Then there's insurance, paying trainers, misc stuff. It adds up. Basically my overhead right now is 200k a year.

[SageFit]

Sage,

Excellent thread and great job running a successful business. This is one of the most informative threads I've seen in the PT section.

A. How many trainers work for you? I currently have 5 other trainers working for me. 2 full time, 2 of them work 20-30 hours a week and 1 of them is like 10 hours.

B. How did you go through the selection process when you hired them? Usually I interview and then go through a testing phase where they observe for 1 week and then they train on a trial salary for 1-2 months depending how they do. Trial salary is 10$ an hour until I see if they're staying or not. I've fired around 8 trainers within a week of having them come in. 5 of them were named Joe lol.

C. You mentioned Crossfit. From a business perspective, do you feel like you are competing with them? Or do you feel that your services are a great way to 'supplement' a Crossfiter's training, therefore you are more or less a business partner instead of comperitor? (Hope the question makes sense.) Here is what I'm getting at, Sage. My niche is Olympic lifting / sports performance. Crossfiters do some Oly. There are two boxes in my area. I have tried in the past to partner with them so I could help them with technique work to improve their lifts. I was only able to recruit one CFer, so I dropped the idea of partnership. So I guess the question is
D. Do you offer something that other places don't?

Well workout wise we tend to have a much bigger focus on bodyweight, kettlebell, trx and cardio such as running and jump rope. We don't do nearly as much OLY as they do just due to the fact we don't have bumper plates or the right facility for it. I have one problem with Crossfit and only one. They try to teach OLY, seemingly one of the most difficult parts of weight lifting, to general public. IMO no one should be doing max weight oly lifts unless they've been practicing for years. Think about how we feel about squats on this board. Your squat needs to be PERFECT before it's even acceptable in bodybuilding. That's my gripe with crossfit. Going back to the differences we need to keep in mind the area im in. Our typical client is italian, jewish and greek housewives. Don't get me wrong a lot of them are VERY fit, but they're not crossfitters so we don't train them like they are. We tone it down a little when needed and approach every client differently, Crossfit can't do that. Crossfit goes for the younger and already athletic, we tackle general public. People understand this I suppose as there's not even a crossfit box locally, yet if we drive 5 miles away theres 2 of them 3 blocks from each other.

I know I just rambled a little there but hopefully this helps you. I think it comes down to know your clientele.

Thanks for your time.

I answered in the quote above. I also wanted to add that my head trainer is a Crossfit trainer/competitor and one of the best trainers i've ever met. I think Crossfit has fantastic trainers compared to open gym. Maybe a good place to start?

[SFT]

[QUOTE=SageFit;998407323]Before I answer this I want to also add something to this thread.
The fact im in New York plays a huge role in all of this. The area im in is upper-middle class with a local population of 100,000. The new facility has a much higher volume location but slightly lower income. Just remember though, personal training is a luxury and we have to look at it as one. If you're thinking of opening in the middle of a rural village and getting enough people to make something, you're going to be sadly dissapointed.

Anyways I started training at 19, opened my first facility at 24. I started working at a small personal training center, not too disimilar from my own. Working there gave me a good start in dealing with people and from the business end it showed me everything NOT to do. Over the course of 3 years they lost a lot of clients to me because of their customer service. They're been around for 16 years and still had to downgrade their facility. Customer service my friends, it means everything.

Yes rent alone costs 72k. Then there's insurance, paying trainers, misc stuff. It adds up. Basically my overhead right now is 200k a year.[/QUOTE

Location definitely matters. As you said, a rural location might not be successful even though you would be paying a fraction of the rent that you are currently. I know some people who have said they charge upwards of $80/hr. In my area, you could find a small group of people to do that, but they wouldn't be lining up to pay that. In contrast, a lower price with 30 or 45 minute sessions would be much more reasonable and would result in a larger potential client base. People are used to paying $20-40/visit for things like Physical Therapy. I think that changing the service to fit that price range would make it feel like less of a luxury item. You can always offer the hour sessions for people who want them.

The only thing I can think of that makes the 30 minute sessions difficult is trying to keep up with all of these clients. You would need to be on top of your ****, which a lot of trainers are not. I'm assuming that you are or you wouldn't have so many clients. I think a very organized binder with all of their workouts, a contact log, and other basic medical information would make things easier. I like the idea of a contact log because I think every once in a while clients like getting an email just telling them they did a good job, or offering a tip or two. Even with 30 minute sessions, I think it is possible to keep the personal touch.

[SageFit]

[QUOTE=SFT;998432173]

Before I answer this I want to also add something to this thread.
The fact im in New York plays a huge role in all of this. The area im in is upper-middle class with a local population of 100,000. The new facility has a much higher volume location but slightly lower income. Just remember though, personal training is a luxury and we have to look at it as one. If you're thinking of opening in the middle of a rural village and getting enough people to make something, you're going to be sadly dissapointed.

Anyways I started training at 19, opened my first facility at 24. I started working at a small personal training center, not too disimilar from my own. Working there gave me a good start in dealing with people and from the business end it showed me everything NOT to do. Over the course of 3 years they lost a lot of clients to me because of their customer service. They're been around for 16 years and still had to downgrade their facility. Customer service my friends, it means everything.

Yes rent alone costs 72k. Then there's insurance, paying trainers, misc stuff. It adds up. Basically my overhead right now is 200k a year.[/QUOTE

Location definitely matters. As you said, a rural location might not be successful even though you would be paying a fraction of the rent that you are currently. I know some people who have said they charge upwards of $80/hr. In my area, you could find a small group of people to do that, but they wouldn't be lining up to pay that. In contrast, a lower price with 30 or 45 minute sessions would be much more reasonable and would result in a larger potential client base. People are used to paying $20-40/visit for things like Physical Therapy. I think that changing the service to fit that price range would make it feel like less of a luxury item. You can always offer the hour sessions for people who want them.

The only thing I can think of that makes the 30 minute sessions difficult is trying to keep up with all of these clients. You would need to be on top of your ****, which a lot of trainers are not. I'm assuming that you are or you wouldn't have so many clients. I think a very organized binder with all of their workouts, a contact log, and other basic medical information would make things easier. I like the idea of a contact log because I think every once in a while clients like getting an email just telling them they did a good job, or offering a tip or two. Even with 30 minute sessions, I think it is possible to keep the personal touch.

I use EZfacility for all my training. I've been using it for like 6 years, even before I opened my places. It's about 100-150 a month but it just makes life a hell of a lot easier and more productive. I can schedule with it, do my book keeping, all my billing, e-mail blasts, contact logs, save info, etc. People can even register online using it. Good program and well worth it once you can afford it.

[Mr.ILL]

Why have you chosen not to become a crossfit affiliate?
Do you ever plan on it?

[SageFit]

Why have you chosen not to become a crossfit affiliate?
Do you ever plan on it?

Crossfit comes with free advertising and a name. I started before the crossfit explosion so I see no need to jump on board now. I already have my clients and we have a bigger name in the area then any box. I also don't want anything dictating how I train and what I do with clients

[HassanGym]

Not sure if you'll be able to answer this, but here it goes. Do you think it is possible for me to graduate in Electrical Engineering, and as well as open up a gym as well (without having any sort of degree in that field)?

[SageFit]

Not sure if you'll be able to answer this, but here it goes. Do you think it is possible for me to graduate in Electrical Engineering, and as well as open up a gym as well (without having any sort of degree in that field)?

Yes. To be frank a degree helps but when it really comes down to it it's just a piece if paper, especially when ur opening your own business. It helps initially as people trust you more but eventually people will believe in you only if you're good at what you do and a paper can't change that

[arian11]

Not sure if you'll be able to answer this, but here it goes. Do you think it is possible for me to graduate in Electrical Engineering, and as well as open up a gym as well (without having any sort of degree in that field)?

I graduated with a degree in mechanical engineering. I plan on starting a gym with a friend who got his degree in sport management. You don't need a degree in fitness to get a CPT or a CSCS. And I probably know more than someone with a degree in exercise science when it comes to programming or proper technique on lifts. Though they probably know more than me when it comes to human anatomy and various systems of the body.

[HassanGym]

Yes. To be frank a degree helps but when it really comes down to it it's just a piece if paper, especially when ur opening your own business. It helps initially as people trust you more but eventually people will believe in you only if you're good at what you do and a paper can't change that

Ah ok thanks, I was under the impression you could only open such business if you had a PT certificate etc. I sort of saw my gym be taken over by 2 PT's who completely renovated the gym, sort of changed it to a CrossFit Center [although keeping all weights accessories etc] and now they own the gym together.

I graduated with a degree in mechanical engineering. I plan on starting a gym with a friend who got his degree in sport management. You don't need a degree in fitness to get a CPT or a CSCS. And I probably know more than someone with a degree in exercise science when it comes to programming or proper technique on lifts. Though they probably know more than me when it comes to human anatomy and various systems of the body.

Yeah you're right and I would probably in the same position as you in the near future. Thanks for the input.


Thanks guys.

[KyleAaron]

Anyone can call themselves a PT, S&C coach or whatever, and open a business. But you'll only get employed, or if self-employed get insurance, if you have some sort of qualifications. Nobody will employ or insure you just because you can squat four plates. In truth, the bits of paper may be actually less useful than that, but that's not the way it's seen by organisations that themselves produce lots of bits of paper. Bits of paper are respected.

You don't need a degree, but you do need something.

[PerFit]

$30/half hr seems pretty cheep for NY

congrats on your progression

[SageFit]

$30/half hr seems pretty cheep for NY

congrats on your progression

It is, but we go off volume. Figure we do over 330 sessions a week + we have group classes and that's for just 1 facility.

That reminds me of a very important thing I forgot to mention. Sometimes volume works better then per cost. For example with my facility I could of charged 40 per 30 minutes but I would have less clients. The money would add up the same but then you have to keep in mind that every extra client you get is free marketing for you. So, you have to take that into the equation when figuring price out. 10 clients paying 300 is better then say 7 clients paying 300 because you then have 30% more marketing power in that group. This is VERY important to understand.

[arian11]

It is, but we go off volume. Figure we do over 330 sessions a week + we have group classes and that's for just 1 facility.

That reminds me of a very important thing I forgot to mention. Sometimes volume works better then per cost. For example with my facility I could of charged 40 per 30 minutes but I would have less clients. The money would add up the same but then you have to keep in mind that every extra client you get is free marketing for you. So, you have to take that into the equation when figuring price out. 10 clients paying 300 is better then say 7 clients paying 300 because you then have 30% more marketing power in that group. This is VERY important to understand.

But wouldn't 7 clients paying $300 be better than 10 clients paying $300 because it is less clients to retain? Plus more individualization for the client. Easier for you to track everything of the clients. Possibly better chance to produce results.

[SageFit]

But wouldn't 7 clients paying $300 be better than 10 clients paying $300 because it is less clients to retain? Plus more individualization for the client. Easier for you to track everything of the clients. Possibly better chance to produce results.

I guess it depends how you look at it. For us we don't have a storefront and we're also not on a main road. To me word of mouth marketing is key. I mean we're reviewed at a perfect 30 on google so even with volume we seem to do what needs to be done. Maybe if it came to a point where volume effected your business you'd have to then raise prices in hopes of not overextending yourself but until that point in my opinion the numbers are more important

[KyleAaron]

That's it. If current client referrals are the main way you get business, then you want lots of clients saying good things about you.

If referrals are not an important source of new clients, then you want fewer clients for more money. Or if you can't change the price (say if you're directly employed by a gym) then fewer clients for more hours, 10 clients for 2x1hr each are easier to handle than 20 clients for 2x1/2hr each.

Same principle for those of us not self-employed.

[WoofieNugget]

I have found that by pricing myself lower than any chain gym in my area or most independent trainers (even though I have more experience and am far more educated) I have not only filled up faster, generated more referrals but also people can afford to stay with their programs longer and therefore get better results.

Just as an example, I work with two guys who are both "pro fitness models" and they charge 50% more than I do for generic bodybuilding workouts. However, they both struggle to get in 10-15 sessions a week and have trouble finding any new business, whereas I consistently do 25-30 and have lots of referrals. If even one of their clients decides not to renew then they lose about 20% of their income, and if mine do I lose less than 10%.

Don't price yourself based on ego because you think you're good enough to - price yourself based on what the market will bear and what will keep people coming back. I almost listened to a ton of people who told me I should charge more but I'm very pleased with the result because instead of taking 6-12 months to get really busy it took me 6 weeks.

[akotz15]

So I'm majoring in accounting right now and I'm in the middle of my junior year. Over break, I've really been thinking about getting into personal training because working out/health/fitness is a huge aspect of my life and the last thing I want to do is get a desk job and hate it for the rest of my life. I guess any advice would help in terms of my next move. I've heard of the ISSA, but when I asked the guy who owns one of the local supp shops (also a certified PT and amateur bodybuilder) he said most of the credible certificates need a BS. Is switching my major something I should be thinking about doing right now?

[BodyQuest1]

Hey, that's pretty cool Sage. I searched "personal trainer whitestone ny" and you came up 3rd spot on google front page :O How were you able to do that? Do you have an SEO company work on the optimization of your site to boost your search results on google?

[Wolfex]

How did you get capital to start up the business?

[GBLynden]

Thank you for this thread. I am strongly considering doing something like this.

[onionhead444]

I'm in a similar planning/saving phase. My set up is slightly different though. I want to start with a small (500-1000 sq ft) gym that will be open to general population. And then have 1 on 1 and group classes for those that want. Hopefully I'll get some people there that want performance based results because that is what I'm best at.

A guy in the powerlifting section basically has what I want as far as further down the line.

http://www.sarasotabarbell.com

This is a perfect example of what i want! Looks awesome. Where u at arian?

[EdgarAllanPoe]

What kind of referral rewards programs have worked for you?

My common referral program has been to give a free week based on what their friend signs up for

Periodically I'll double it for a week and I will usually get at least one referral when I do that.

I'm thinking of offering $100 for any 1 on 1 referral that pays the full rate. As something tangible may work well?

I've also offered a free session in addition to regularly scheduled sessions if you bring a friend but that hasn't worked out well for me.



I have my own studio as well, and like you I worked at a similar facility prior to getting my own place and felt everything that was done there taught me what NOT to do. Been working much harder but love running my own studio in comparison

[SageFit]

What kind of referral rewards programs have worked for you?

My common referral program has been to give a free week based on what their friend signs up for

Periodically I'll double it for a week and I will usually get at least one referral when I do that.

I'm thinking of offering $100 for any 1 on 1 referral that pays the full rate. As something tangible may work well?

I've also offered a free session in addition to regularly scheduled sessions if you bring a friend but that hasn't worked out well for me.



I have my own studio as well, and like you I worked at a similar facility prior to getting my own place and felt everything that was done there taught me what NOT to do. Been working much harder but love running my own studio in comparison

We have a set policy of 2 free sessions per signed up referral. Also, some of my clients have referred so many people that I now let them train free for life. One client brought us over 30 people, she's been amazing. For the new location i'm thinking of trying a new policy where their rates are permanently decreased everytime they refer and the client signs up.