Ask a "successful" personal trainer/small business owner anything

[ReubenKid]

What qualifications would you recommend someone getting who wants to go down this line?

[SageFit]

How much do new trainers make at your facility?

They start out at 10/hour in their testing phase. They then go to 12 per hour until they're working 30+ hours. Then they'll start to get raises based on how they retain/perform for a maximum of around 20-25 per hour

[SageFit]

What qualifications would you recommend someone getting who wants to go down this line?

NASM and start working immediately. Experience means everything. Be very open minded.

[Jstamp]

You mentioned you also have revenue from shakes/water. Do you sell supplements, or do you have a juice bar/cafe? How much revenue?

[ReubenKid]

NASM and start working immediately. Experience means everything. Be very open minded.

Thanks man, but won't possible clients who look into your business be expecting higher education in say nutrition and training?
Great thread BTW very informative

[NZKiwiStudent]

Hi, Im a student from New Zealand and im doing a study of Marketing strategy for personal trainers. I need some qualitative data from the industry and was just wondering about your knowledge on;

How personal trainers market themselves

What methods/avenues/media do they use to promote themselves?

Where do they advertise? (internet magazines local papers etc.)

How much would a personal trainer spend on marketing?

Do you think Personal Trainers could do with better marketing?


Any information you could give me to the above questions would be an immense help in focusing my research.


Many thanks

Josh

[SageFit]

So a small update. I'm always looking for a new revenue stream. Having multiple revenue streams is the trick to being successful. No one makes it having one. What if that one isn't doing well? So basically we have this so far -

PT - #1
Group Classes - #2
Water #3
Protein Shakes #4
Paleo Food #5

now I just added a 6th one which seems to be doing very well. Many people here may be familiar with it and it's not exactly in line with the stuff we normally preach in fitness but I joined on as a beachbody coach. Basically I sell "Shakeology" to my clients and net 25% of anything they order online. I've been doing it for one month and made about $400 at the moment. Now, mind you we have a lot of clients so the potential to sell is higher then a lot of you may run into. I do, however, think it's a good oppertunity for people if they really want to put time and effort into it, especially if you already have clients. The system is complicated so let me know if you're interested in signing up for it.

[SageFit]

Thanks man, but won't possible clients who look into your business be expecting higher education in say nutrition and training?
Great thread BTW very informative

I don't think anyone has ever cared. In all my years training maybe 1-5 people asked about my credentials. The only people who would care are employers. People are too uneducated about fitness to even question anything you say or do.

[SageFit]

You mentioned you also have revenue from shakes/water. Do you sell supplements, or do you have a juice bar/cafe? How much revenue?

Just water and rtd protein shakes. This is bad business but I actually don't track how much we sell, only how much we order, which means I don't follow how much stock we lose to trainers. That said I would guess our beverage intake at 10k a year.

[arian11]

So a small update. I'm always looking for a new revenue stream. Having multiple revenue streams is the trick to being successful. No one makes it having one. What if that one isn't doing well? So basically we have this so far -

PT - #1
Group Classes - #2
Water #3
Protein Shakes #4
Paleo Food #5

now I just added a 6th one which seems to be doing very well. Many people here may be familiar with it and it's not exactly in line with the stuff we normally preach in fitness but I joined on as a beachbody coach. Basically I sell "Shakeology" to my clients and net 25% of anything they order online. I've been doing it for one month and made about $400 at the moment. Now, mind you we have a lot of clients so the potential to sell is higher then a lot of you may run into. I do, however, think it's a good oppertunity for people if they really want to put time and effort into it, especially if you already have clients. The system is complicated so let me know if you're interested in signing up for it.

You don't sell any Sage Fit clothing?

[jimmyk21]

What size (sq ft) would you say is a good starting point for a small studio?

[SageFit]

You don't sell any Sage Fit clothing?

I actually just ordered $3000 worth of sage clothing. We sold prior to that but I basically broke even on it. I use it for marketing not for profit. I even give a lot away.

[SageFit]

What size (sq ft) would you say is a good starting point for a small studio?

2000 sq ft. is fine to start with I think.

[jsfLip]

They start out at 10/hour in their testing phase. They then go to 12 per hour until they're working 30+ hours. Then they'll start to get raises based on how they retain/perform for a maximum of around 20-25 per hour

How much were trainers making at your workplace before you opened your first facility? The reason I ask is because I started at a small private studio not too different from your own, and I get $20/hr. Some websites cite an average ~$50k salary, but I'm no where near that number. I'm concerned because I have a degree and my work is located in a high-income area located about 40 minutes outside of Washington DC. I feel that I should get a little more...

My boss has a blue-collar background, no college education, but is a nice guy. I try to feel him out to see if there's a possibility of getting up to that $24-25/hr, but I get this feeling that he doesn't want to pay a 24 year old $45-50k/year when it took him years and years of hard work to get up to that number. He quoted a $50-60k salary for a manager if he were to have one, and when he said that, I figured I would make no where near the "average" salary as a trainer. What's your take on trainer salary given experience, education, etc?

Also when it comes around to payday, how do you let your trainers know how many sessions they got paid for?

Thanks for sharing all your knowledge! You've been extremely helpful.

[Nakmuay87]

Congrats on the business. Sounds like you are doing well and will continue to do so!

You do need to control your stock take though! Not knowing how much your selling/losing to PT's isn't a good practise!. Do you employ anyone to do your books for you?

[WeaponL]

This was a very informative thread. Absolutely grateful that you decided to share both your experience, and knowledge. Even more so, cause I read that at times you put in about 10+ hours on average a day. So my questions if you don't mind my asking, what kind of training set up did you have for your clients when you first opened up your business? I know you said that you put in about 150k, so about how long before you were making a profit?

[SFT]

How much were trainers making at your workplace before you opened your first facility? The reason I ask is because I started at a small private studio not too different from your own, and I get $20/hr. Some websites cite an average ~$50k salary, but I'm no where near that number. I'm concerned because I have a degree and my work is located in a high-income area located about 40 minutes outside of Washington DC. I feel that I should get a little more...

My boss has a blue-collar background, no college education, but is a nice guy. I try to feel him out to see if there's a possibility of getting up to that $24-25/hr, but I get this feeling that he doesn't want to pay a 24 year old $45-50k/year when it took him years and years of hard work to get up to that number. He quoted a $50-60k salary for a manager if he were to have one, and when he said that, I figured I would make no where near the "average" salary as a trainer. What's your take on trainer salary given experience, education, etc?

Also when it comes around to payday, how do you let your trainers know how many sessions they got paid for?

Thanks for sharing all your knowledge! You've been extremely helpful.

I'm going to throw my opinion in here. I recently had people on this board telling me that I would be robbing trainers if I didn't give them 75% of what I brought in per session.

Most trainers don't have 40 hours per week of training, but if you were at this number, you would be making ~$40,000 a year with 2 weeks off. My question to you, and how your boss thinks, is why should he pay you more? What is your value? If you can make him more money, then he will pay you more. The second question is can he afford to pay you more?

What does the average training session cost at your facility? Remember that he a number of costs not limited to:

- Rent (high income area usually means a high rent)
- Utilities
- Credit card processing (2-3%, other fees may apply: monthly fees, etc.)
- Equipment repair
- Facility repair, maintenance, and upgrades
- Equipment purchase
- Marketing - brochures, flyers, business cards
- Office supplies
- FICA tax (he matches whatever you pay for Medicare/Social Security)
- Worker's comp and unemployment tax
- Accounting fees
- Permits
- Annual business documentation fees

This is not even an exhaustive list. Some of these are fixed, so as you train more people, the % of the cost relative to each of your sessions will decrease. However, some are not fixed - including the taxes, credit card processing fees, and arguably equipment. The more wear and tear the equipment takes, it will have to be repaired more regularly. After all those costs and your salary, he then has to pay himself. Now I am not defending him because if he is useless, then maybe he doesn't deserve the profits at the end of the line. However, I think that some owners/managers do more than trainers are willing to admit. In a lot of cases, they took the risks, but down tens of thousands of dollars, worked 80 hour weeks, and do a lot of marketing in the background to bring in clients. If this isn't the case, perhaps you should move on.

By knowing all of this, it allows you to understand where your boss is coming from. Then, you can make an objective decision rather than being subjective by thinking that you are owed more money. I don't say this in a demeaning way, but a lot of people feel that they are owed more money just because, without the financials being there.

If you want a raise, maybe you should speak with him about ways to improve your pay. For instance, running a few group fitness classes (5-25 people) and small group training (2-5 people) could boost your income. The gross from these sources is generally greater than personal training. This gives him more money to pay you. Your other alternative is to open your own business.

[SageFit]

I'm going to throw my opinion in here. I recently had people on this board telling me that I would be robbing trainers if I didn't give them 75% of what I brought in per session.

Most trainers don't have 40 hours per week of training, but if you were at this number, you would be making ~$40,000 a year with 2 weeks off. My question to you, and how your boss thinks, is why should he pay you more? What is your value? If you can make him more money, then he will pay you more. The second question is can he afford to pay you more?

What does the average training session cost at your facility? Remember that he a number of costs not limited to:

- Rent (high income area usually means a high rent)
- Utilities
- Credit card processing (2-3%, other fees may apply: monthly fees, etc.)
- Equipment repair
- Facility repair, maintenance, and upgrades
- Equipment purchase
- Marketing - brochures, flyers, business cards
- Office supplies
- FICA tax (he matches whatever you pay for Medicare/Social Security)
- Worker's comp and unemployment tax
- Accounting fees
- Permits
- Annual business documentation fees

This is not even an exhaustive list. Some of these are fixed, so as you train more people, the % of the cost relative to each of your sessions will decrease. However, some are not fixed - including the taxes, credit card processing fees, and arguably equipment. The more wear and tear the equipment takes, it will have to be repaired more regularly. After all those costs and your salary, he then has to pay himself. Now I am not defending him because if he is useless, then maybe he doesn't deserve the profits at the end of the line. However, I think that some owners/managers do more than trainers are willing to admit. In a lot of cases, they took the risks, but down tens of thousands of dollars, worked 80 hour weeks, and do a lot of marketing in the background to bring in clients. If this isn't the case, perhaps you should move on.

By knowing all of this, it allows you to understand where your boss is coming from. Then, you can make an objective decision rather than being subjective by thinking that you are owed more money. I don't say this in a demeaning way, but a lot of people feel that they are owed more money just because, without the financials being there.

If you want a raise, maybe you should speak with him about ways to improve your pay. For instance, running a few group fitness classes (5-25 people) and small group training (2-5 people) could boost your income. The gross from these sources is generally greater than personal training. This gives him more money to pay you. Your other alternative is to open your own business.

This is 100% accurate. In fact i'd say this is even being generous. To put some numbers to it my revenue increased almost 80k from 2011 to 2012. My profit increased about 30k. This means in just one year my overhead is increasing by 50k due to numerous factors.

[SageFit]

I recently started a new wordpress blog focusing on fitness marketing and such. Hopefully it sheds some light for some of you. It will basically just be more information similar to this thread.

http://sagefit.wordpress.com/

[drowskie]

Im just now starting out (only been certified since last month) but my main questions are:
1) whats the best way to market myself
2) how long should i work with a company before going out on my own
3) How much capital should i have before opening my own place and how big should it be

[SageFit]

Im just now starting out (only been certified since last month) but my main questions are:
1) whats the best way to market myself
2) how long should i work with a company before going out on my own
3) How much capital should i have before opening my own place and how big should it be

1) Unanswerable
2) Unanswerable
3) Unanswerable

I don't mean to be a dick with those answers but they're honestly too vague to come up with an answer. Everyone is different man so you're going to have to find what works best in your situation. For example i've seen many trainers who have 20+ years experience and are still pure ****. I've also seen people with 3 years experience who are some of the best i've seen.

As for 3 it matters what direction you want to take it. What do you hope to achieve? Is it just you? Do you want independants? Do you want employees? Is it an open gym too or just PT? All of these things would matter in deciding what the best route is to go. Give me more details and I can give you more too.

[burlyman619]

What is a good resource for finding outmore information about the PT feild? I want to research about all the certifications, salaries, emplyer's preferances ect?

[SageFit]

What is a good resource for finding outmore information about the PT feild? I want to research about all the certifications, salaries, emplyer's preferances ect?

There's some company that deals with all statistics of gyms but you have to sign up in order to see everything in detail. It's very helpful but the name of the company isn't coming to me right now. I'm sure if you do some digging you can find it. Start searching for gym statistics, something like that.

BB.com is fine to look up about certs though, everything else you definitely want statistics.

[SageFit]

Ok here's a bump for some other little project I have been working on for the facilities. I created a little booklet to go along with my workout programs in order for people to track what we do. It's already layed out for them and follows specific fitness tests that I have my clients perform. I get tired of following other peoples ways when you have a right, as a trainer, to create your own "correct" ways. That said here's a little example of the booklet. Cost $900 to have 100 of them printed and I will sell them for $10 each, just enough to cover cost/shipping. They each have about 60 pages worth of material and include pictures on how to perform movements, fitness tests, exercises to track, blank pages to write on and weight/bodyfat tracking page.

[MasterBench]

Hey OP I live in the tri-state area and I was wondering do you think a powerlifting/olympic lifting type gym would work in NYC? Similar to Sarasota barbell as someone mentioned earlier. I want to train people but tbh I really can't get on board with all the gimmicky stuff in the fitness industry right now such as TRX, Crossfit, etc. I understand that many people like it but these training methods but it isn't for me and I would never want to train people with these methods.

Not trying to insult any of your methods, I just want to know if you think it is feasible to attract enough customers in this market right now.

[tgrandys]

Thank you for allof this information sage! I am just getting set to start my career. Since I am not certified, but interested in learning, do you think it would be a good idea to hire a PT, but let them know I am ultimately want to become a personal trainer as well? I do plenty of fitness and nutrition research, I think I need to learn more about 1 on 1 coaching techniques and styles.

[SageFit]

Thank you for allof this information sage! I am just getting set to start my career. Since I am not certified, but interested in learning, do you think it would be a good idea to hire a PT, but let them know I am ultimately want to become a personal trainer as well? I do plenty of fitness and nutrition research, I think I need to learn more about 1 on 1 coaching techniques and styles.

You need to get experience I suggest finding the absolute best small personal training facility you can find and seeing if they need an intern or maybe you can do some work in exchange for them training you. Something like that would be very mutal beneficial. Heck you could even become more fit yourself in the mean time. Learn as much as you can and have an open mind to every single trainer/training style you see.

[SageFit]

Ok guys, i'm back with some more things going on. I always like to spread the info and help any of you starting out have a better idea of the business aspect of training. So here's the news

I'm currently looking to expand my first facility to a new nearby location. i am looking at a 5000 square foot building. It is a pure rectangle vanilla box with nothing inside. It has only 10 parking spots + street parking and a small backyard space. Inside it has 16 foot ceilings which if needed can be divided into 2 small floors, if say for instance I want to add an office and massage room on top of each other without eating more then like 300 square ft.

Current asking price = $8500 per month rent + triple net lease. This mean I would be paying $18000 per year extra on taxes + whatever heating and water is. Figuring that the building alone would cost me about 140k a year.

I will be starting negotiations on Monday and will be taking the property if I can get the person down to $7000-8000 a month TOTAL. It's probably pushing it but ill keep you updated. I train some of his family members so im hoping that helps in negotiations. If I end up getting the space I will update this thread from start to finish of the building process.

After initial costs I assume a buildout will cost around $100-150k, keeping in mind I already have most of the equipment.

To be continued...

[mattwilsonPT]

i was just wondering im starting from scratch as of this week what should my first 5 steps be? i have business cards and a personalized hoodie already ill get flyers sorted. and is this the right direction?

[sirwilliam732]

You mentioned you got assistance from some wealthy clients, but how much of the cost for your first place did you put up yourself? Or how long did it take you work up to this point? Was this always your goal or one you realized while PTing