Ask a "successful" personal trainer/small business owner anything

[SFT]

How much you spend per month is due in large part to the size of your place....

I have my own 1250 sq ft personal training studio and the past few months my energy bill has been $60-$80.....when i rented space at a nearby anytime fitness which is 24 hours I think the guys energy bill was like 3000! I have 3 pieces of cardio equipment and the elliptical doesn't even require energy.

Anytime had like 5 tv's, A/C or heat on at 70 year around, bright halogen lights probably 25 of them on 24/7, security cameras 24/7, outdoor signage 24/7 lit up, fans running 24/7, he had those hydro massage beds, a running water fountain up front (decoration), all the treadmills/cardio had tv's on them and were plugged in 24/7.

I turn EVERYTHING off when i leave my studio plus i'm in a business park so some of my neighbors insulate me to a degree.

The property in my place is insured by the landlord....EFT charges are pretty cheap (i use intuit). Advertising should be based on the amount of money you have to work with.

I actually joined a barter network where I get discounted advertising and I train people through this network to generate money used only within the network. I'm currently having professional SEO work done and not spending a real cash money dime. It's all money i've generated from training within this network.

If you live in a major city, you branch to the outskirts a little bit and you'll be able to find way way way more square footage than right in the middle of a high income area. If I went out like 30 mins away I could probably get 5,000 to 6000 sq ft for the same price I pay now for 1250 right in the middle of a high income area. I just felt I wouldn't have enough clients follow me 30 extra mins.

Bartering is an interesting idea. One thing that you have to consider though, is that it is not tax free despite what most people think. On a small scale, you can get away with it. However, my understanding from some research is that fair value must be reported as income. Obviously a lot of people get away with a few under the table deals, but just something for people to recognize.

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html

I think this becomes most problematic when it is openly advertised or the other business involved claims the income.

[SageFit]

Do you use Craigslist at all?

I do not. When I first opened my original facility 3 years ago I did in fact try it but found it was only decent for recruiting new trainers, nothing more.

[NorwichGrad]

A little update.

My new facility has now been open for about a month and here's what I found so far. Pamphlets and the paper advertisement got the name out there and people started seeing our name in many different places. That said there were no direct leads from those sources. However, people who saw the ads ended up finding us on facebook and became more interested. So far facebook advertising has BY FAR been our best source of new leads at the new facility. Word of mouth remains first for the old facility and second for the new facility. Facebook has been key in the new facility and got us over 3 new trial clients just for next week alone. I have to say i'm quite shocked at this turn out because I figured facebook would simply expand our name, not necessarily get real clients.

Some details on our facebook ad. I have a budget of $20 a day and the ad is set to get new "likes". It runs only locally in a few zip codes. It reaches out to about 20k people and so far I would rate it as extremely successful. Just to reiterate, for my new facility no other single source has gotten us more clients. This is the first time an advertisement has gotten more people then word of mouth. It shows the power of social media. Use it to your advantage. You can check out the facebook page here http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/SageAstoria to get help in how I run the page and information we list.

Hopefully this helps some of you starting out and maybe shines a light on a good way to approach finding your first group of clients.

Awesome!

This is great to know. The owner of the gym where I train has become more tech savvy recently. He has been using fb to get the word out there.

More questions for you:

A. Do you feel that gyms like Planet Fitness are a threat to independent businesses like yours? My gym has lost lots of members to pf, which prompted the owner to be more aggressive in marketing, per my comment above.

B. There is a general perception that during bad economic times, personal training or group training is considered a luxury; therefore, it is one of the first things that people cut off from their budget. You are obviously doing well. Is your 'secret' , for a lack of better term, the socio-economic status of your clients? In other words, I think you may have mentioned your clients are wealthy in an older post (and please correct me if Im wrong). Has the economy affected your business because middle-class family clients had to stop training with you?

C. In your opinion, is there a decent future for trainers who want to specifically train athletes? And I dont mean professional athletes or even D1 athletes. Im talking about high school athletes and younger teens.

[Impurityz]

Bartering is an interesting idea. One thing that you have to consider though, is that it is not tax free despite what most people think. On a small scale, you can get away with it. However, my understanding from some research is that fair value must be reported as income. Obviously a lot of people get away with a few under the table deals, but just something for people to recognize.

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html

I think this becomes most problematic when it is openly advertised or the other business involved claims the income.

each is supposed to report the FMV of the services


an exchange is usually required to provide a form in excess of xxx amount.

[CharlottePT]

Bartering is an interesting idea. One thing that you have to consider though, is that it is not tax free despite what most people think. On a small scale, you can get away with it. However, my understanding from some research is that fair value must be reported as income. Obviously a lot of people get away with a few under the table deals, but just something for people to recognize.

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html

I think this becomes most problematic when it is openly advertised or the other business involved claims the income.

What i'm doing is not what you're thinking. I'm with an actual company that has their own dollar, its almost like you have a bank account within this organization and its nationwide. If you want the name, (or anyone for that matter) give me a P.M and i'll tell you all about it.....i'd really like the referral rewards if I can get anyone to sign up

There is a membership fee, off the top of my head i think its $45 one time entry fee. 6% cash fee per transaction plus $10 cash money & $20 THEIR barter dollar per month. If you refer people I think you get like 3 months of those monthly fees waived. Always pay the 6% cash fee.

So....
Say we have 4 people.
CharlottePT has a personal training business
John Doe has a florist business
Jane Fonda has a printing shop
Terry Bradshaw has a auto shop

Jane Fonda may want personal training and I charge my normal rates but she pays me in these barter dollars that I can only use within the network. I don't have to get any printing from her. Say she pays me $400 a month. I can go have my oil changed by Terry Bradshaw, and buy a dozen roses from John Doe. I don't buy a thing from Jane Fonda. It's typically used for bigger transactions but thats just an example. I could get SEO done from someone in oregon and I'm in NC.

The biggest thing is advertising, I can buy advertising in just about everything around here with these barter dollars but the big deal is if I put this barter companys tiny logo in my ad then they'll pay 50% of the cost.

Also, there are often specials to get advertising for lower than normal through the network.

I just started using it but like I said I'm getting pro SEO done and not really having any money come out of my overhead, yes I'm working for it but still. It works better for some companies then others. I'm still seeing how it goes but at this point I prob wouldn't have gotten SEO on my done simply because I don't like adding to my overhead. I've never borrowed any money for my studio and I like it like that.

The huge advertising discount is also a big bonus. If i get a few more clients in this network I'll test drive a few of these discounted advertising deals

[SFT]

What i'm doing is not what you're thinking. I'm with an actual company that has their own dollar, its almost like you have a bank account within this organization and its nationwide. If you want the name, (or anyone for that matter) give me a P.M and i'll tell you all about it.....i'd really like the referral rewards if I can get anyone to sign up

There is a membership fee, off the top of my head i think its $45 one time entry fee. 6% cash fee per transaction plus $10 cash money & $20 THEIR barter dollar per month. If you refer people I think you get like 3 months of those monthly fees waived. Always pay the 6% cash fee.

So....
Say we have 4 people.
CharlottePT has a personal training business
John Doe has a florist business
Jane Fonda has a printing shop
Terry Bradshaw has a auto shop

Jane Fonda may want personal training and I charge my normal rates but she pays me in these barter dollars that I can only use within the network. I don't have to get any printing from her. Say she pays me $400 a month. I can go have my oil changed by Terry Bradshaw, and buy a dozen roses from John Doe. I don't buy a thing from Jane Fonda. It's typically used for bigger transactions but thats just an example. I could get SEO done from someone in oregon and I'm in NC.

The biggest thing is advertising, I can buy advertising in just about everything around here with these barter dollars but the big deal is if I put this barter companys tiny logo in my ad then they'll pay 50% of the cost.

Also, there are often specials to get advertising for lower than normal through the network.

I just started using it but like I said I'm getting pro SEO done and not really having any money come out of my overhead, yes I'm working for it but still. It works better for some companies then others. I'm still seeing how it goes but at this point I prob wouldn't have gotten SEO on my done simply because I don't like adding to my overhead. I've never borrowed any money for my studio and I like it like that.

The huge advertising discount is also a big bonus. If i get a few more clients in this network I'll test drive a few of these discounted advertising deals

Sounds like an interesting concept. Again, I'm no accountant or tax expert, so I won't offer any specific advice or make any absolute statements. However, I will say that as far as the IRS is concerned, you are performing a service in trade for another service or good.

For example, if you train someone for 10 sessions and receive SEO in return, the IRS would expect you to report fair value for these services on your taxes. Red flags would come up if you claimed that fair market value of the services was $1 to evade taxes. You would have to claims something to the effect of $300-500, or whatever would be a normal price in your area, as income.

Like I said before, a lot of businesses take cash or don't report bartered services, but I am just saying be careful with it. Unless I am mistaken, you would be expected to claim it.

[schmedes2]

So is your primary income stream still the one-on-one sessions with clients for $30? I really like the idea of the classes/boot camps you have but I want to make a studio that does small group training as opposed to the one-on-one and/or classes but that's an intriguing way to go as well

[arian11]

How much you spend per month is due in large part to the size of your place....

I have my own 1250 sq ft personal training studio and the past few months my energy bill has been $60-$80.....when i rented space at a nearby anytime fitness which is 24 hours I think the guys energy bill was like 3000! I have 3 pieces of cardio equipment and the elliptical doesn't even require energy.

Anytime had like 5 tv's, A/C or heat on at 70 year around, bright halogen lights probably 25 of them on 24/7, security cameras 24/7, outdoor signage 24/7 lit up, fans running 24/7, he had those hydro massage beds, a running water fountain up front (decoration), all the treadmills/cardio had tv's on them and were plugged in 24/7.

I turn EVERYTHING off when i leave my studio plus i'm in a business park so some of my neighbors insulate me to a degree.

The property in my place is insured by the landlord....EFT charges are pretty cheap (i use intuit). Advertising should be based on the amount of money you have to work with.

I actually joined a barter network where I get discounted advertising and I train people through this network to generate money used only within the network. I'm currently having professional SEO work done and not spending a real cash money dime. It's all money i've generated from training within this network.

If you live in a major city, you branch to the outskirts a little bit and you'll be able to find way way way more square footage than right in the middle of a high income area. If I went out like 30 mins away I could probably get 5,000 to 6000 sq ft for the same price I pay now for 1250 right in the middle of a high income area. I just felt I wouldn't have enough clients follow me 30 extra mins.

Thanks for the info. I know it depends on the size and location and that is why it is so difficult to come up with a correct estimate. I'm trying to come up with estimates of how much equipment will cost me and how much my base of expense will be each month. I'm probably going to start with a place that is ~1,000 sq ft like yours. Don't think I'd go all commercial gym like with TVs, tons of treadmills, and that crap. Rather go with squat rack w/ oly platform, bench, DBs, and those kind of things. So I guess it won't be as much as I thought it would be unless I turn it into a 24 hour place and have the A/C going all the time.

[SageFit]

So is your primary income stream still the one-on-one sessions with clients for $30? I really like the idea of the classes/boot camps you have but I want to make a studio that does small group training as opposed to the one-on-one and/or classes but that's an intriguing way to go as well

Yup, by far the one on one is my largest income stream.

[SageFit]

Awesome!

This is great to know. The owner of the gym where I train has become more tech savvy recently. He has been using fb to get the word out there.

More questions for you:

A. Do you feel that gyms like Planet Fitness are a threat to independent businesses like yours? My gym has lost lots of members to pf, which prompted the owner to be more aggressive in marketing, per my comment above.

B. There is a general perception that during bad economic times, personal training or group training is considered a luxury; therefore, it is one of the first things that people cut off from their budget. You are obviously doing well. Is your 'secret' , for a lack of better term, the socio-economic status of your clients? In other words, I think you may have mentioned your clients are wealthy in an older post (and please correct me if Im wrong). Has the economy affected your business because middle-class family clients had to stop training with you?

C. In your opinion, is there a decent future for trainers who want to specifically train athletes? And I dont mean professional athletes or even D1 athletes. Im talking about high school athletes and younger teens.

a) Open gyms are not competition, in fact they help my business. There's a new york sports club a few blocks away from us which has costs as low as $20 a month. We have NEVER lost a single client to them, while we have stolen over 50% of their personal training clients. Not to mention many of their trainers have taken their clients and trained independently at my place. They're my best friends! I love open gyms with really ****ty trainers.

b) Yes we focus on higher middle to upper class. We train many many millionaires and even two billionaires. At our low costs it's pocket change for them, which makes it more likely that they come in 3-5 times a week instead of 2. I'd have to guess the median income of my clients is somewhere from 200-300k a year and that's probably shooting low. It plays a huge role in my business. I don't think I could last in a lower eco area, in fact it's the prime reason I opened here. It's not very populated but this area is like a scene. People need to look good and everyone knows everyone elses business.

c) We train a lot of young athletes but nowhere near enough to warrant focusing on them. Unless you manage to get whole teams, athletes may be sparse. I just feel like that's narrowing your pickings a lot since there's a hell of a lot more housewives then semi-pro athletes. That said, if you can make a good business about it and really name yourself as a go-to in that area, then you'd be set with something really special.

[keung]

All my clients are able to e-mail me or contact me at any given point for free diet help. We also have our own iphone app which I use for doing diet and fitness tips.

I was looking at the MemberMe app on itunes (not available on Android?) and it doesn't seem like many people have reviewed it (2). Do you have insight into how effective your app is, basically are your customers actually using it?

Also thanks for opening up! I learned a lot reading through these 5 pages

[CharlottePT]

Sounds like an interesting concept. Again, I'm no accountant or tax expert, so I won't offer any specific advice or make any absolute statements. However, I will say that as far as the IRS is concerned, you are performing a service in trade for another service or good.

For example, if you train someone for 10 sessions and receive SEO in return, the IRS would expect you to report fair value for these services on your taxes. Red flags would come up if you claimed that fair market value of the services was $1 to evade taxes. You would have to claims something to the effect of $300-500, or whatever would be a normal price in your area, as income.

Like I said before, a lot of businesses take cash or don't report bartered services, but I am just saying be careful with it. Unless I am mistaken, you would be expected to claim it.

they provide you with a 1099B form at the end of the year for taxes

I haven't asked yet but i would assume all the membership and transaction fees would be something I can write off at the end of the year. I purposely waited to start using this program until January of this year so I didn't have to fool with all that form my 2012 taxes

[naitcc]

Congratulations! All your replies are very useful. I see that you have an iPhone app. I am looking for your advice for IT side of business. For example, do you have something in place for managing reminders or schedule? What tools did you use for marketing your website? What strategies do you suggest for marketing using social media?

Thanks again man, it's nice to see people like you in this community. Very motivating!

[NorwichGrad]

Thanks for your response, Sage! Very helpful.

You actually gave me an idea. My area is not quite a wealthy neighborhood, but Ive been fortunate enough to train kids who come from upper-middle to upper class families. These parents obviously want to see their kids do well in sports, and they have the money to spend in training. So why should I not take advantage of the fact that the kids I train have parents who are potential clients. I think I pulled a Homer Simpson on this one, DOH! In other words, I should offer my services to moms and dads, seeing my foot is already in the door cuz I train their kids. Double DOH!

I've already asked a ton of questions, so I hope you dont mind I ask some more

What is your personal opinion on trainers who are specialist versus jack-of-all trades (or at least try to be one)? I have heard many arguments regarding the subject. Some say when a trainer starts he or she should be more or less of a generalist. As experience is gained, trainers should focus on specific niche. Im seriously considering expanding my base to moms, based on this thread and your feedback. But I also dont want potential mom clients to be intimidated by me because they see me as an Olympic lifting coach. (For example, for whatever the reason some moms get nervous when they see their kid do a snatch or clean&jerk. Lol. But dads usually like that stuff.) I guess my question is, and this is marketing-related once again, if I want to expand my base is it important for potential clients to see me as a trainer who can "do it all" as opposed to just a trainer who "just trains kids to be strong"?

A BIG THANKS in advance.

[KyleAaron]

NorwichGrad, I think you can explain it much as I do. Whatever your capabilites and goals, you need to do movements correctly. Train movements, and the muscles will follow. My job as a trainer is to teach correct movement. There are certain movements we all need to be able to do, it's simply that athletes will take some of them further.

Now, see that kid doing clapping pushups? They're tough. Do you need to do clapping pushups? Probably not. But before he did clapping pushups, he did pushups - if he can't do a pushup, how's he going to clap at the top? And before he did pushups, he did a plank - because a pushup is a plank where you move up and down. Do you want your back to stop hurting? Then you need to do a plank. See this other kid doing heavy barbell squats? Before she could do heavy barbell squats, she had to be able to do light ones, before light ones, squatting without any weight at all. Do you want to be able to get off the couch without lurching your weight forwards, using your hands and grunting? Do you want to be able to walk up stairs without your knees hurting, to run for the train sometimes, to pick heavy stuff up off the ground? Then you need to squat.

So you start at the same place the athletic kid did, only difference is how far you choose to go. These different movements are the building blocks. Some movements are the foundation, which everyone needs. What you build on top of that foundation depends on your goals. My job is to teach correct movement. Your high school teacher was there for you to help you learn, even if you didn't want to go on to do a PhD. For most of us, just finishing high school is enough.

All that said, you are going to find that there are certain kinds of people with certain capabilities or goals which you are good at and enjoy training the most. These will make up the bulk of your income. 20% of your knowledge will be used on 80% of your clients getting you 80% of your income.

[SageFit]

Been a bit backed up but ill answer more shortly. For the record i've been putting in 17-19 hour days this week in order to keep up with scheduling, calls, emails and training. Just something to think about.

[NorwichGrad]

Been a bit backed up but ill answer more shortly. For the record i've been putting in 17-19 hour days this week in order to keep up with scheduling, calls, emails and training. Just something to think about.

Awesome! That's a great problem to have.

[transformerchad]

what leg exercises respond the best with ur clients and what type of training for legs? high weight low reps or vice versa

[BodyQuest1]

Been a bit backed up but ill answer more shortly. For the record i've been putting in 17-19 hour days this week in order to keep up with scheduling, calls, emails and training. Just something to think about.

On a regular week though, how many hours do you typically put in per day?

Have you ever thought about delegating some of those tasks you mentioned?

[ChessGuy]

Theoretical question..

What would be the probability that someone like you would hire an out of shape 61 year old certified PT with super interpersonal and superior sales skills?

[nickdavid]

17-19 hour days, man you're preaching the PT dream but you're living the nightmare...

If you're loving what you do and working massive hours like that, like I used to then GREAT!

But as a highly successful PT myself owning studio's, appearing on radio, magazine, newspaper for my expertise, I got pretty sick of giving all my energy away to people for years and decided to still help people but to AUTOMATE a lot of what I did.

Better to setup systems so that you spend less time IN your business and more ON your business, meaning you work more on the marketing and business stuff than you do on training clients and messing around with fluff like admin, operations etc, that stuff you can OUTSOURCE.

Tim Feriss explains a lot of this stuff in The 4 Hour Work Week book.

Online Personal Training is a good gig to start to bridge into.

Selling meal plans and training programs, or detox programs direct to your email database and via viral means of marketing online.

Then you can do what I do, and help a TON of people still, yet spend most your time doing what you want like beach surfing, hanging with your girl, traveling, you name it...

Anyway, KUDOS to making it this far at 27 years old, and for you guys asking all the questions, just keep in mind that you don't want to work for years only to become a SLAVE to your business.

We all want to help people but not at the expense of our own lives and lifestyle because when it's all said and done, most people won't remember you when you die.

So live life to the MAX.

Peace

[jimmyk21]

Trying to decide between EZfacility and MindBodyOnline. It looks like EZ is more in depth, but Mind Body is half the price and I wonder how many of the extras I'd actually use with EZ. The main things I'd want would be scheduling and online booking. And contracts for auto payments. Any feedback?

[SageFit]

Trying to decide between EZfacility and MindBodyOnline. It looks like EZ is more in depth, but Mind Body is half the price and I wonder how many of the extras I'd actually use with EZ. The main things I'd want would be scheduling and online booking. And contracts for auto payments. Any feedback?

I love EZfacility. I was even used for one of their internet ads as we're one of their most successful clients. That said i may be a bit biased. I tried mindbody and found that EZfacility was a bit more intuitive and streamlined. The only thing I think mindbody does a little better is their internet booking. EZFacility makes it private and requires all clients to register an account, which means people who do not register can not even see the schedule through there. Mindbody has a better implentation into websites. HOWEVER, once a client is registered, EZfacility blows mindbody away.

[SageFit]

Theoretical question..

What would be the probability that someone like you would hire an out of shape 61 year old certified PT with super interpersonal and superior sales skills?

If you exhibit the qualities im looking for I don't care about age. I find a lot of 40+ trainers are very closed minded on styles of training and the openess of the fitness world. For example a bodybuilder who's been doing it for 30 years will have a hard time accepting kettlebell as a viable mechanism. I think if you have an open mind then you are as good a candidate as anyone. Hope that helps.

On a side note much respect to you. I hope you find your niche here. Gyms would be dumb to pass up on good sales and communication skills. They mean more then PT skills frankly.

[SageFit]

On a regular week though, how many hours do you typically put in per day?

Have you ever thought about delegating some of those tasks you mentioned?

Typically I put in at least 12-14 hours of actual training a day + administration. Little by little im backing off and allowing delegation to others. My new facility is much more streamlined and planned out so running it is really easy. It's the first facility that bogs me down and takes up my time.

If the new facility is as successful as the first then moving on i'd be able to back away more and more and allow things to run themselves. I prefer doing the administrative and marketing stuff over the PT stuff actually.

[RyouBakua]

what does everyone feel is better?

Posting your rates publicly or asking that they contact you?

[SageFit]

what does everyone feel is better?

Posting your rates publicly or asking that they contact you?

I post mine publicly but have many people who never even looks at the price page. I like having things streamlined and letting people know what it is we do, without any questioning. Putting up the prices gets rid of people who were going to waste my time and not join anyways. Although, in the same token, i'm sure I missed out on a few clients who I could of talked into doing it had they not seen the prices first. With those 2 points in mind I still say put prices up and save yourself the trouble of dealing with people who are going to eat away at your most important resource, time.

[RyouBakua]

i agree with that


i dislike having to contact for prices

what about posting up your rates but have a little note at the bottom saying "contact for this months special!"



that way if the general rate is a deterrent, the special might seem like something they can go for

[SageFit]

i agree with that


i dislike having to contact for prices

what about posting up your rates but have a little note at the bottom saying "contact for this months special!"



that way if the general rate is a deterrent, the special might seem like something they can go for

I don't like it. Then you sound like open gyms that have a "price" of let's say $100 but then you find out people are paying $25 and you end up with really pissed off customers.

[ChessGuy]

How much do new trainers make at your facility?