Pakistan mob burns man accused of desecrating Koran alive

[Weightaholic]

The law is there to keep the peace and prevent actions like mob justice. If you take away the laws you will see more mob justice.

Yet, it's not preventing mob "justice" at all, apparently. Ergo, it's not working. Despite your inane protestations about how wonderful and perfect and full of potential Pakistan is.

The system worked how it should in this case, and she was given a lot of support from the establishment.

If the system worked as it should (and your country wasn't full of deranged religious vermin), she wouldn't have needed support.

But, ah, no problem here, right?

[NoFXN]

Yet, it's not preventing mob "justice" at all, apparently. Ergo, it's not working. Despite your inane protestations about how wonderful and perfect and full of potential Pakistan is.

If the system worked as it should (and your country wasn't full of deranged religious vermin), she wouldn't have needed support.

But, ah, no problem here, right?

There is no point in discussing further with you as you have absolutely no understanding on the subject. I am not interested in discussing anything with someone who is ignorant on the subject and not reading my posts. If you actually had read up on this case you would have realized that the guy was already in police custody but the police station was overun.

Requoting this for the 2nd time

It's something that will be fixed in the future with education, rule of law, and good governance.

Rule of law is a problem and this is why things like this keep happening.

The law is there to keep the peace and prevent actions like mob justice. If you take away the laws you will see more mob justice.

If you take away the laws you will see more mob justice.



If you take away the laws you will see more mob justice.



If you take away the laws you will see more mob justice.

=====================

The real reason you are even ignorantly commenting in this thread is because you look for any reason to hate brown people. Your bigotry isn't even veiled, you just won't come out and admit it though.

[Weightaholic]

If you take away the laws you will see more mob justice.

If the laws are on the books it gives the rabid foaming mobs an excuse to go murder people. Ever think of it that way?

Either way, the laws aren't working. We've already established that. That was the part where, what was it, oh yeah, an angry mob burned a guy alive.

The real reason you are even ignorantly commenting in this thread is because you look for any reason to hate brown people. Your bigotry isn't even veiled, you just won't come out and admit it though.

Ah, the last (and much overused) clarion call of the mentally inept... RACISM! EVERYONE, RACISM! LOOK, HE'S BEING RACIST! HE'S DISAGREEING WITH ME!!!

If you have some ire to direct, you should direct it where it's deserved... your fellow Pakistanis and Muslim "brothers and sisters".

[NoFXN]

Ah, the last (and much overused) clarion call of the mentally inept... RACISM! EVERYONE, RACISM! LOOK, HE'S BEING RACIST! HE'S DISAGREEING WITH ME!!!

Pakistani mob of inbred paedophile worshippers burn someone alive because they're barbaric scum, and we get this gem.

When a couple thousand of your inbred countrymen all think this sort of thing is a Really Good Idea, then you have a problem.

[Weightaholic]

[ig]http://data.whicdn.com/images/6381559/orly-owl_1748847_large.jpg[/img]

So, this mob wasn't made up of Pakistanis? Perhaps... Zionist plants?

The inbred part is assumed because, well, you have to have some sort of developmental issues to be running around burning people alive for allegedly burning a book....

[JB05]

How many people have been sentenced to death by the Pakistani state? Not to mention the fact that the death penalty is suspended in the countries civilian courts currently. Most people charged under the blasphemy laws are actually Muslims and everyone wins the appeal even if they do get convicted.

The irony is that this law was added to the penal code in 1860 by the British. And the British did hang people for violating it!



LOL Israel has the law too thanks to the British.

Nice job with the strawman fallacy, I never blamed it on the British but facts are facts even if you have trouble swallowing it. I bet you don't know a single thing about British colonialism in British India and the after affects.

You consistently make ignorant posts, a neg well deserved.

Sure, it's a strawman argument. I'm sorry I fell for your obfuscation attempt and addressed your unrelated point of British colonial law.

I admit I don't know much about British colonial involvement in Pakistan. I bet you don't know anything about the construction of the Panama Canal. Thankfully for the purposes of this thread, both topics are unrelated.

The original post (remember that?) was about Pakistani mob doling out their version of vigilante justice and burning a man to death. Vigilantism is bad. Torture (burning) is bad. Ergo, the episode the OP cited was an outrageous tragedy. Can you agree with virtually everyone else ITT on that?

Or do you want to talk about how the borders of Pakistan were drawn? Or Hammurabi's Code? Or the Japanese surrender in WWII? Or any one of a million other topics you'd rather shift everyone's attention to?

Please be sure to take your medications and try your best to control your ADD before you respond.

[NoFXN]

Sure, it's a strawman argument. I'm sorry I fell for your obfuscation attempt and addressed your unrelated point of British colonial law.

I admit I don't know much about British colonial involvement in Pakistan. I bet you don't know anything about the construction of the Panama Canal. Thankfully for the purposes of this thread, both topics are unrelated.

The original post (remember that?) was about Pakistani mob doling out their version of vigilante justice and burning a man to death. Vigilantism is bad. Torture (burning) is bad. Ergo, the episode the OP cited was an outrageous tragedy. Can you agree with virtually everyone else ITT on that?

Or do you want to talk about how the borders of Pakistan were drawn? Or Hammurabi's Code? Or the Japanese surrender in WWII? Or any one of a million other topics you'd rather shift everyone's attention to?

Please be sure to take your medications and try your best to control your ADD before you respond.

If my statement was seen as obfuscation in your eyes than perhaps you might want to get your head checked. Especially if you really do believe that British involvement in the creation of this law is an irrelevant point. To find out why this law was enacted and why it is still around you have to look at the origins of the law and WHY the British promulgated it. And it is especially relevant to mention considering all the bashing in this thread against Islam. As if this is an Islamic law created by the Pakistani Government to punish minorities.

I don’t know what compels you idiots to come on here and make such ridiculous comments and statements. You have no knowledge of the issue other than the original news report posted in this thread. Instead of admitting ignorance you continue to try to debate me with non-starter arguments and emotional statements. None of which are rational or based on any facts, what ends up happening is you get exposed as a pseudo-intellectual.

The truth is you are just butt hurt I negged you and now you are just grasping for straws.

-----------

This is our country and no one has the right to tell us how to legislate our laws or change our constitution. We understand our country and our internal situation better than a bunch of people who base all their information on a subject based on one short news report.

Ill come back to this thread tomorrow, NoFXN you really have no scruples and honesty whatsoever, you not only have a history of lying but also a history of ignoring and waving away brutal murders in a ruthless attempt to protect your countrys reputation

So while everyone in this thread uses abusive language against a country of 190 million generalizing them all you have decided to focus on me. I guess I am not allowed to clear up the issue and detail the real issues in play here.

How dare you accuse me having no empathy for me people, I have travelled this country extensively and met people from all walks of life. I have celebrated the minorities of this country and their great successes and have expressed my love for all my fellow countrymen.

Anyways I am done with this thread, there is enough information here for anyone that has a genuine interest in this subject.

[DavidBlair]

That country should be nuked.

[Weightaholic]

Ill come back to this thread tomorrow, NoFXN you really have no scruples and honesty whatsoever, you not only have a history of lying but also a history of ignoring and waving away brutal murders in a ruthless attempt to protect your countrys reputation

I occasionally find him to be a thoughtful and even good poster, he's just too blinkered on certain subjects.

I guess I am not allowed to clear up the issue and detail the real issues in play here..

Having said that, you're ignoring the real issue here, in that apparently vigilante mobs feel justified in executing people, outside of the rule of law. Why is that?

But sure, if you keep saying there's no problem, there's no problem, right?

[Summering]

So while everyone in this thread uses abusive language against a country of 190 million generalizing them all you have decided to focus on me. I guess I am not allowed to clear up the issue and detail the real issues in play here.

How dare you accuse me having no empathy for me people, I have travelled this country extensively and met people from all walks of life. I have celebrated the minorities of this country and their great successes and have expressed my love for all my fellow countrymen.

Anyways I am done with this thread, there is enough information here for anyone that has a genuine interest in this subject.

I find extreme insults distasteful, but its no co-incidence that I suddenly reply to your posts after I caught you lying lolz, I will continue to reply to any post of yours I find reprehensible

How dare I? You can claim all you want, but you constantly do your best to cover up the persecution of Christians, Ahmedis and other minority groups. You completely ignore the brutal 8 month rape of a Christian and shouted at me for bringing it up. I also have PMs from a few months ago when I actually liked you and your posts, where you showed an utter disregard for the mass rapes and murders of your army and accused me of "insulting" YOU when I brought up the topic.

Ever since you blatantly lied to me, I have not believed a single word you have said. Have the humility to admit you were lying and then maybe your words will have some credibility

[NYbrah]

I occasionally find him to be a thoughtful and even good poster, he's just too blinkered on certain subjects.

you must be kidding? he is the resident retard of this section.

[NoFXN]

Rule of law and good governance will NOT get to the root of why this behavior occurs, only education can do that. Rule of law and good governance will not stop guys assassinating politicians who oppose the death penalty for blasphemy or the thinking which leads to this process. Its not helped by the fact that your madrassas are being funded by you know who

The Rohingyas got a lot of attention here and the hypocrisy of the media for not reporting it. The most hypocritical of all was the Bangladeshis saying that they wont accept Rohingyas citizenship, which is horrible considering the Bangladeshis underwent a genocide by Pakistan not long ago.



It is clearly stated in Sahih Bukhari that an (unrepentant) apostate gets the death penalty. But let me guess you dont consider that to be a saheeh hadith, am i right? You may have a different "interpretation" but I dont know what makes you think you speak for all Muslims, the ruling that apostates get the death penalty is not restricted only to "Wahabbis". Considering you openly lie and openy talk about drinking and fornicating all the time on here, what on earth makes you think your interpretation of the religion is correct?

Education is a longterm solution and will take a VERY long time to correct the situation for good. Rule of law and good governance will make sure this law is NOT abused and mobs like this cannot take justice into their own hands. Why do you think these mobs form instead of having the police handle the situation? They think the police are corrupt and do NOT carry out their duty to enforce the rule of law.

As for the funding of the madrasahs what do you want us to do about it? We have tried to reform them and have them at least teach other subjects like science and math but they are uncooperative. You cannot just make decision without understanding what sort of blowback may occur. Everyone seems to forget that we have other very pressing issues such as the fact that we at war right now.

The Rohingyas didn’t get anywhere near the amount of response other topics here have garnered. I criticized the Bengalis for turning away the Rohingyas as well citing their own history. It’s something I have spoken a lot about that and mentioned that other Muslim countries should step up and get involved.
Where are you pulling apostasy from? Apostasy has nothing to do with this subject. I also don’t see how my personal life has anything to with a single goddamn thing. My vices and my religion are my own business and I have made my viewpoints clear at the end of the day anyway.

Having said that, you're ignoring the real issue here, in that apparently vigilante mobs feel justified in executing people, outside of the rule of law. Why is that?

But sure, if you keep saying there's no problem, there's no problem, right?

Mob justice is happening more and more because the rule of law doesn't exist. There is a breakdown in the law and order of the country because the police are corrupt and even where we have honest men they aren't well equipped and receive no support. The police in Pakistan are more like firefighters than enforcers of the law. That is why not too long ago 2 boys from Sialkot were lynched for being suspected theives. Also the justice system has failed because of the corruption and the fact that courts are backed up on cases.

[Weightaholic]

you must be kidding? he is the resident retard of this section.

No, he has some good posts.

Just goes full retard over anything related to Pakistan.

[NoFXN]

How dare I? You can claim all you want, but you constantly do your best to cover up the persecution of Christians, Ahmedis and other minority groups. You completely ignore the brutal 8 month rape of a Christian and shouted at me for bringing it up. I also have PMs from a few months ago when I actually liked you and your posts, where you showed an utter disregard for the mass rapes and murders of your army and accused me of "insulting" YOU when I brought up the topic.

How do I cover up anything? Never have I said oh no that never even happened or isn’t a problem. I have always talked about solutions, why would I talk about solutions if there wasn’t a problem? They are two sides to every coin and if you don’t want to accept that then that is on you. Just like when I suggested you this book you ignored me.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/023...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

But I find it morally reprehensible when he tries to say that the persecution of minorities isnt a big deal, when it clearly is.

Where have I said it isn't a big deal?

you must be kidding? he is the resident retard of this section.

Meanwhile you spread your bigotry through the section.

No, he has some good posts.

Just goes full retard over anything related to Pakistan.

You guys just don't like hearing the truth and try to take western mindsets and apply them to eastern problems. Everything I post can be fully cited and I can provide sources.

[NYbrah]

...

you said the death penalty for blasphemy is there so pakistan people won't kill others. that means you are admitting majority of pakistan people are retarded morans who think it's okay to kill someone just for blasphemy. if it was just minority then the law would have been removed long time ago.

[Weightaholic]

You guys just don't like hearing the truth and try to take western mindsets and apply them to eastern problems.

I like to think of it as taking an enlightened mindset and applying it to barbaric problems. Remember, the topic of this thread is "Pakistan mob burns man accused of desecrating Koran alive".

[NoFXN]

you said the death penalty for blasphemy is there so pakistan people won't kill others. that means you are admitting majority of pakistan people are retarded morans who think it's okay to kill someone just for blasphemy. if it was just minority then the law would have been removed long time ago.

I never said anything about the death penalty other than the fact that no one gets executed anymore through Pakistan's civil courts. And that doesn't mean anything of the sort, the law is there to protect people. Sometimes you will find that in certain cases people are held in jail longer by the courts for their own protection. The state does what it can to protect people from harm but they are limitations. If you actually do the research you will find that most of these cases are filed because someone had an argument or a dispute with another and then made the allegation.

[Summering]

Education is a longterm solution and will take a VERY long time to correct the situation for good. Rule of law and good governance will make sure this law is NOT abused and mobs like this cannot take justice into their own hands. Why do you think these mobs form instead of having the police handle the situation? They think the police are corrupt and do NOT carry out their duty to enforce the rule of law.

As for the funding of the madrasahs what do you want us to do about it? We have tried to reform them and have them at least teach other subjects like science and math but they are uncooperative. You cannot just make decision without understanding what sort of blowback may occur. Everyone seems to forget that we have other very pressing issues such as the fact that we at war right now.

The Rohingyas didn’t get anywhere near the amount of response other topics here have garnered. I criticized the Bengalis for turning away the Rohingyas as well citing their own history. It’s something I have spoken a lot about that and mentioned that other Muslim countries should step up and get involved.
Where are you pulling apostasy from? Apostasy has nothing to do with this subject. I also don’t see how my personal life has anything to with a single goddamn thing. My vices and my religion are my own business and I have made my viewpoints clear at the end of the day anyway.

Why did you send a PM? I always see you saying how "butthurt" people are when they PM you about something, Im surprised you sent me one, but I will answer that politely later.

- Okay, these mobs form because they want to effect their own justice on the guilty party. Now, why do they feel it necessary to burn or kill a man who desecrated the Quran? Where does this sort of thinking come from and how do you eradicate it? As much as you deny it, this sort of thing seems to happen way too much and in the most disturbing of manners to innocent minorities. Even if Pakistan had the rule of law of Nordic countries it does not eradicate the behavior which causes this mode of thinking in the first place.

I have spent time working in Zurich and London and met some Pakistanis who tell me some horror stories about kidnappings and ransoms of foreigners and the way some minorities like Shias are treated (the guy was Shia). Just an observation but you seem to disagree with almost every Pakistani on here, calling them conspiracy theorists or traitors when they say something negative about the country. Ive noticed that you seem to dislike Indians a lot too on here, is that something to do with rivalry / enmity of the nations?

- I dont know but I get the feeling that the madrassas are hugely contributing to the "mode of thinking" which causes them to act this way to innocent minorities dont you think? I hear you constantly say that Sufism or Barelvis are indigenous to Pakistan, now if that was the case, what is the outside influence which causes this insane behavior to those who are seen as disrespecting Islam? Wahabbis?

- Well I thought they did on the misc, and yes the American media was hypocritical to ignore it. (I at least saw SOME coverage on British and German media). Im sure youve heard of Der Spiegel (there is an English version I think), they covered Rohingyas reasonably well

- I mentioned it because it was mentioned in the discussion; but it is very clearly stated in Sahih Bukhari, would you like me to find the source? Regarding your "vices", okay I wont bring them up again, but I only do so because sometimes what you say sounds very hypocritical, like I often see you saying X or Y are not real Muslims, which is strange as many Muslims would probably say that about you too

[NoFXN]

I like to think of it as taking an enlightened mindset and applying it to barbaric problems. Remember, the topic of this thread is "Pakistan mob burns man accused of desecrating Koran alive".

You would be naive to think a cookie cutter approach would work in a place that has a completely different culture and different approach to things. You forget how long it took for the US to get where it is now and the horrible things that have happened in the past. We have to take into considering our realities and come up with solutions from within as outside solutions will simply not work in our enviroment.

[NYbrah]

I never said anything about the death penalty other than the fact that no one gets executed anymore through Pakistan's civil courts. And that doesn't mean anything of the sort, the law is there to protect people. Sometimes you will find that in certain cases people are held in jail longer by the courts for their own protection. The state does what it can to protect people from harm but they are limitations. If you actually do the research you will find that most of these cases are filed because someone had an argument or a dispute with another and then made the allegation.

facepalm. i didnt say death penalty is carried out. but the fact that such law exists shows that majority of pakistan people are savages. but yeah its not just pakistan people, majority of muslim countries are like that.

[NoFXN]

Why did you send a PM? I always see you saying how "butthurt" people are when they PM you about something, Im surprised you sent me one, but I will answer that politely later.

- Okay, these mobs form because they want to effect their own justice on the guilty party. Now, why do they feel it necessary to burn or kill a man who desecrated the Quran? Where does this sort of thinking come from and how do you eradicate it? As much as you deny it, this sort of thing seems to happen way too much and in the most disturbing of manners to innocent minorities. Even if Pakistan had the rule of law of Nordic countries it does not eradicate the behavior which causes this mode of thinking in the first place.

I have spent time working in Zurich and London and met some Pakistanis who tell me some horror stories about kidnappings and ransoms of foreigners and the way some minorities like Shias are treated (the guy was Shia). Just an observation but you seem to disagree with almost every Pakistani on here, calling them conspiracy theorists or traitors when they say something negative about the country. Ive noticed that you seem to dislike Indians a lot too on here, is that something to do with rivalry / enmity of the nations?

- I dont know but I get the feeling that the madrassas are hugely contributing to the "mode of thinking" which causes them to act this way to innocent minorities dont you think? I hear you constantly say that Sufism or Barelvis are indigenous to Pakistan, now if that was the case, what is the outside influence which causes this insane behavior to those who are seen as disrespecting Islam? Wahabbis?

- Well I thought they did on the misc, and yes the American media was hypocritical to ignore it. (I at least saw SOME coverage on British and German media). Im sure youve heard of Der Spiegel (there is an English version I think), they covered Rohingyas reasonably well

- I mentioned it because it was mentioned in the discussion; but it is very clearly stated in Sahih Bukhari, would you like me to find the source? Regarding your "vices", okay I wont bring them up again, but I only do so because sometimes what you say sounds very hypocritical, like I often see you saying X or Y are not real Muslims, which is strange as many Muslims would probably say that about you too

I have mentioned before in a previous topic that Muslims are very sensitive and very emotional. You will also see this trait in India, it seems to be a cultural aspect in the subcontinent. This is why things get even more inflamed than they normally would elsewhere in the world. The essential mistake is to think that this has anything to do with thinking rather than emotionalism.

To solve this behavior/emotionalism you need to improve many different aspects of life for the people. Good governance is required because people are becoming more and more frustrated with the problems of the country. There has been rioting even because of the load shedding in the country and inflation. You need education to help these people rise up and improve their living conditions and help them become members of society that can contribute. You don’t commonly see educated people with jobs taking part in these mobs. You need rule of law because if you can enforce the laws then even if someone makes an accusation then it can be properly investigated. Any misuse of the law can be strictly punished as well to discourage people from abusing it. We have this saying that in Pakistan the people are afraid of the baton. It is true; if you empower the police and enforce the law you will eradicate this events from OCCURING. Education will eradicate the problem while rule of law will prevent it from happening.

Madrassahs aren’t really contributing to this problem but the US presence in Afghanistan has made society more extreme and paranoid. The sooner the US leaves the region the better equipped the Government will be to tone things down and bring the country back to normal. The real problem like I mentioned earlier is the sensitivity and emotionalism of the people. Barelvis have made mistakes in the past too and have some backward tendencies that unfortunately aren’t congruent with the original sufi traditions. Even within Barelvi Islam they are some differences of opinion! When the 16 year old Christian girl was accused those Barelvi groups actually came out in full support of the girl. I was surprised to see even more extreme outfits come out and offer to take her into their custody to protect. It was truly a turning point for the country that I didn’t see coming to be honest. Perhaps, we could have had a good ending for this story as well had the police station not been overrun by the mob.

I accept my vices and all MISC Muslims are aware of them but no one has come out and said I wasn’t a real Muslim in the Ask Islam thread. I have never tried to justify my fornication or other vices other than alcohol consumption on here. I am not hypocritical especially because I don’t preach Islam to non-Muslims and only call out other Muslims if they are supporting extremism or something that doesn’t sit well with my moral code.

=========

Side note a lot of minorities have also made it to really high posts in the country. They are reserved seats in the Parliament for minorities and even those seats are going to be increased shortly.

Just of the top of my head...

Chief Justice A.R Cornelius


Cecil Chaudhry who was Flight Liutenant in the Airforce and is a military hero


Mervyn Middlecoat - Another airforce pilot who was a hero!


Most surprisingly we had a Hindu Chief Justice too!


Here are other heros!
Group Captain Eric Gordon Hall
Wing Commander Nazir Latif
Squadron Leader Peter Christy
Flight Lieutenant William D. Harney

If you want to ruthless criticize us then fine but at least consider the fact that we have made strides and are working on the situation. Everyone is suffering from bad governance right now and unfortunately the people who don't have a patronage system to fall back on suffer the most. Religious minorities aren't the only ones suffering but so are the poor who have no one to defend them even from police harrassment. This is why I keep talking about GOOD GOVERNANCE and the RULE OF LAW.

[mp83]

What doesn't offend you, offends others (and vice-versa). Learn to accept that simple fact of life.

Offending someone shouldn't be a crime. Grow some skin

[NoFXN]

facepalm. i didnt say death penalty is carried out. but the fact that such law exists shows that majority of pakistan people are savages. but yeah its not just pakistan people, majority of muslim countries are like that.

Yes, so damn savage.

[NYbrah]

[]31cq8K6QXac[/youtube]
Yes, so damn savage.

yeah we have freedom of speech and independent media and judiciary and everything but if u blasphemy we will have to burn you in public! welcome to pakistan!

[NoFXN]

Okay, but I think there are some elements where rule of law will have no impact; eg do you think that would have deterred that assassin from murdering that politician who wanted a reform of the blasphemy law? I get the impression that these guys see Islam as more important than their own lives, and certainly more important than man made law. Also, do you think this "archaic" death penalty for blasphemy should be enforced or reformed? This is the sort of stranglehold the Wahabbi ideology can have and seems entrenched in the extremist elements of the country

Regarding your point about India, to be honest I dont really know much about the religions there, but I dont doubt that they are emotional about religion. Just an observation but you seem to argue with indians on here a lot, do you dislike the country a lot?

But going back to the point Im making, do you deny that minorities (yes, as well as poor people) often get persecuted and dont you think its a very serious problem? I mean there are clips on youtube of some mullah calling for people to kill Ahmedis on sight, even in german media you hear of some of the most brutal and horrific stories like christian or hindu minorities getting raped / targeted. Even if it is an extreme case, when you hear of a 12 year old Christian being raped for 8 months to convert her, it makes you feel real disgust and shock at what happens. Posters like that Lost in the K hole always posted articles of persecution that were completely ignored or ridiculed. Some things are just indefensible and I honestly think people would be more receptive to the country if these problems were admitted

Yes, they are always going to be some elements that are always going to carry out such acts. Really isn’t much you can do about it but at least the guy got convicted. If they hadn’t suspended the death penalty he would have hung from the gallows. He is on death row but it is likely that if they legislate to officially get rid of the death penalty it will get turned to life in prison. He needs to be made an example of and all those that knew of the plot beforehand also need to be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

We have to show people that this sort of behavior isn’t going to be tolerated and people will be severely punished. This will deter most of this *******s who decide to take things into their own hand. For a while a lot of people fell silent on the issue in fear but the 16 year old girls case brought everything back into the light. It also got more people talking about it especially the religious parties and groups.

Yes, I think the death penalty should be removed from the law and it should be amended. There have been legislation to do that but we are in an election year so nothing controversial is going to get passed right now. The death penalty was added by a military dictator responsible for most of the mess the country is in now. A lot of it was reversed by Musharraf but he had limited time and had a lot on his plate.

I only argue or engage Indians when they have to post their bias opinions towards Pakistan or take part in mudslinging. Otherwise I have cordial relations with the Indians here and even started the Desi Crew. You might see some signatures where people have the crew tag in their signature. Nice to see Indians/Pakistanis/Bengalis repping all 3 countries in their signature. I am for peace with India but based on mutual respect and with the resolution of the Kashmir, Sir Creek, and Siachen issues. I dislike some viewpoints of the Indian Government but don’t generally have a problem with Indian people.

Minorities do get persecuted in some areas but I wouldn’t say that this is common everyday issue. It happens and when it happens it is terrible but it isn’t happening every day on a massive scale. Some people here try to make it seem like the Government is committing genocide or something along those lines. I have always been against these loudspeaker mullahs as these same *******s calling for deaths of people also praise the deaths of Pakistani Soldiers. Honestly, I hate them so much if I was in a position of greater power I would have them arrested and beaten in a Pakistani Police station.

I never defended these acts, just because I have shared some information on how the situation is being handled and how we are trying to resolve the situation doesn’t mean I endorse or defend these acts. I just feel like people at the same time ignore the fact that a lot of poor people in the country go through the same thing. In Pakistan the patronage system is in full effect and if you are part of a patronage group you get protection. Most people get covered under it but some smaller communities don’t have that sort of clout and protection and as a result are prone to such things. For me this is not about religion but about our own social problems. I have a deeper understanding of the country as I have done lots of reading and travelling throughout the country. So for me this issues are overly simplified when discussed or posted on here and I feel the need to clear that up. If I am offering up solutions that means there is a problem. I always thought it was a little retarded of people trying to say I am biased or that I don’t accept that they are problems. If they weren’t problems why would I be talking about solutions?

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Also if you look at the people in this thread you will see that they are bigots and people with a lot of hate. They would not be receptive to anything I have to say anyway. If we were in a different enviroment you would see that even conservative Pakistanis who would totally disagree with my ideology respect me. And I have never had a single person speak to me in person the way people on the RP speak.

[MuscleGunner]

Typical westerner that thinks he knows everything about the rest of the world. How many people have been sentenced to death by the Pakistani state? Not to mention the fact that the death penalty is suspended in the countries civilian courts currently. Most people charged under the blasphemy laws are actually Muslims and everyone wins the appeal even if they do get convicted.

The irony is that this law was added to the penal code in 1860 by the British. And the British did hang people for violating it!



LOL Israel has the law too thanks to the British.

Again Muslims try and bend the truth to hide reality.
Number of people hanged or prisoned in Israel for "disrespecting" Judism = 0
Number of people hanged or imprisoned in Muslim states for "disrepecting" Islam = too many to count.

You're effort at trying to divert the issue onto Israel, a country who executed one man, who was a senior Nazi officer, and even that after a trial, show the face of moronic barbaric primitive lying Islam. And than you wonder why people give you less credibilty than they do to Pro Israel people.

Lies of Peace

[NoFXN]

Again Muslims try and bend the truth to hide reality.
Number of people hanged or prisoned in Israel for "disrespecting" Judism = 0
Number of people hanged or imprisoned in Muslim states for "disrepecting" Islam = too many to count.

You're effort at trying to divert the issue onto Israel, a country who executed one man, who was a senior Nazi officer, and even that after a trial, show the face of moronic barbaric primitive lying Islam. And than you wonder why people give you less credibilty than they do to Pro Israel people.

Lies of Peace

No one has been hanged/blasphemy sentence that hasn't been overturned in Pakistan.

I wasn't diverting the attention to Israel but was pointing out how the British even put the same law into effect in Palestine and you guys also carried it over into your penal code. If you actually tried reading my post you would have seen what I had wrote right under the bottom. By the way explain to me how it is a lie that Israel has blasphemy laws?

Remove your head from your ass, it is well known in the RP that I have no love for Israel or Palestine. And it is also known that I have no problems doing business with Israel.

[MuscleGunner]

Why does it need to be changed? Essentially the law is never upheld considering convictions have always been acquited on appeal. The law is there to keep the peace and prevent actions like mob justice. If you take away the laws you will see more mob justice.

lol at generalizing 180 million people as retarded...American arrogance of peace. Also enjoying the anti-islam comments in the thread considering there is no basis in Islam for blasphemy laws. Especially, killing someone over it!

LOL

Ok ok, so let me get this straight.
When something bad is done by Muslims say, oh, murder or rape or terror or whatever, than you say "it is against the Kuran! They do not represent Islam!"
When something bad is written in the Kuran itself, say oh, murder, conversion by force, preaching violence against all non muslims, than you say "Pffft, it is only a book! It's from 1600 years ago, Muslims don't act by it literally!"

How very convient, if you were debating mindless sheep like your brothers in Pakistan. Unfortunately for you, westren people aren't afraid to think (because they're not afraid to be killed if they reach the "wrong" conclusion), and your lies are only making you look worse and worse.

[uw0tm8]

religion of peace

[NoFXN]

LOL

Ok ok, so let me get this straight.
When something bad is done by Muslims say, oh, murder or rape or terror or whatever, than you say "it is against the Kuran! They do not represent Islam!"
When something bad is written in the Kuran itself, say oh, murder, conversion by force, preaching violence against all non muslims, than you say "Pffft, it is only a book! It's from 1600 years ago, Muslims don't act by it literally!"

How very convient, if you were debating mindless sheep like your brothers in Pakistan. Unfortunately for you, westren people aren't afraid to think (because they're not afraid to be killed if they reach the "wrong" conclusion), and your lies are only making you look worse and worse.

Cite me where in Islam it says anything about Blasphemy being punishable. Had you watched 2 minutes of my Blind Faith documentary I posted you would have realized that....

You are starting to look silly...especially if you do a quick search on my postings.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post917902053