5/3/1 Strength Cycle Followed by Hypertrophy

[GetHuge50]

Hi all, I just laid out a program I'm thinking about running. Its 5/3/1 with my chosen assistance work from the Boring But Big Challenge for a cycle, followed by a hypertrophy routine based off of it. I pretty much just made minor changes.. Idea is to run it back and fourth as in Strength Cycles / Hypertrophy Cycles/ repeat. Feedback would be appreciated.

Strength Template (according to Wendler)

Monday:
Millitary Press 5/3/1
Bench Press 5x10
Chins 5x10
Curls 3x15
Triceps 3x15

Tuesday:
Deadlift 5/3/1
Squat 5x10
Facepulls 3x20
abs

Thurs:
Bench Press 5/3/1
Millitary Press 5x10
Bent Over Rows 5x10
Curls 3x15
Triceps 3x15

Fri:
Squat 5/3/1
Deadlift 5x10
Shrugs 3x15
abs


Hypertrophy Template:
Monday:
Millitary Press 3x6-8
Dips 5x10
Chins 5x10
Curls 3x15
Triceps 3x15

Tuesday:
Deadlift 3x6-8
Split Squat 2x10
Leg Curl 3x12
Calf Raise 3x15
Shrugs 3x15
abs

Thurs:
Bench Press 3x6-8
Incline Db Press 5x10
Side Raises 3x10
Bent Over Rows 5x10
Curls 3x15
Triceps 3x15

Fri:
Squat 3x6-8
Leg Ext. 3x15
SLDL 3x10
leg curl 3x12
Calf Raise 3x15
Facepulls 3x20

[DetMatthews]

The "assistance" in the second routine is a little more substantial, but since the routines are so similar why don't you keep doing the 5/3/1 sets and reps on the main lift? Both routines are fine, just curious.

[GetHuge50]

The "assistance" in the second routine is a little more substantial, but since the routines are so similar why don't you keep doing the 5/3/1 sets and reps on the main lift? Both routines are fine, just curious.

Id like a phase of strength training and then a phase of more size oriented hypertrophy training.

[DetMatthews]

What I love about 5/3/1 is that you can use the assistance to make the program do whatever you need it to do while keeping the strength aspect. The rest of the exercises at 5 x 10, 3 x 15, etc are what make the routine hypertrophy based. I mean you're not doing the main lifts at 10-12 reps anyway, they're staying 6-8.

Anyway, they're really similar so it's 6 in one, half dozen in the other. But I think you get nearly identical results hypertrophy wise while also increasing your strength if you do 5/3/1 for the main lifts in your second routine.

[GetHuge50]

What I love about 5/3/1 is that you can use the assistance to make the program do whatever you need it to do while keeping the strength aspect. The rest of the exercises at 5 x 10, 3 x 15, etc are what make the routine hypertrophy based. I mean you're not doing the main lifts at 10-12 reps anyway, they're staying 6-8.

Anyway, they're really similar so it's 6 in one, half dozen in the other. But I think you get nearly identical results hypertrophy wise while also increasing your strength if you do 5/3/1 for the main lifts in your second routine.

Thanks, I guess you could say MAIN few differences are:
-Switching from 5 / 3 /1 to 6-8 the reps are a bit higher which may infact give a greater growth response for the main lifts.
-Gives body a slight "recovery" if you will- as in not beating it up year round with such low rep ranges. (5-3-1 to 6-8 is not a huge difference but there is a differnece from going from singles or triples to 8 reps so its there)
-Slightly a few more isolation exercises on the hypertrophy phase- may help may not,
either way even as a mental refresher I like the idea.

but I appreciate your feedback

[GetHuge50]

Thanks, I guess you could say MAIN few differences are:
-Switching from 5 / 3 /1 to 6-8 the reps are a bit higher which may infact give a greater growth response for the main lifts.
-Gives body a slight "recovery" if you will- as in not beating it up year round with such low rep ranges. (5-3-1 to 6-8 is not a huge difference but there is a differnece from going from singles or triples to 8 reps so its there)
-Slightly a few more isolation exercises on the hypertrophy phase- may help may not,
either way even as a mental refresher I like the idea.

but I appreciate your feedback

And would you have a suggestion for more of a hypertrophy based routine to alternate with this?

[DetMatthews]

Nah, I think your routine is a pretty good upper/lower. There is a lack of pulling though. You have two presses each upper day (if you include dips) and one pulling exercise each of those days. You do add the shrugs and face pulls, but I would add maybe another horizontal pull (DB Row?) on Mil Press Day for 2 x 10 and just a couple quick sets of pull-ups (pronated or supinated, whichever you didn't do on Press Day) for bench, maybe even between the bench sets. Not a ton of volume, just to even it out a bit more.

Also, why face pulls on Friday?

[Forumite]

If you are doing both military/bench and deads/squat in 1 routine twice a week isn't that an extreme deviation from the initial 5/3/1 routine or am I missing something?

edit: everything about this confuses me, other than doing the rep scheme how is this like the 5/3/1 in the ebook?

[DetMatthews]

No, it's very similar. It has the same main lifts the same days, the sets and reps on the main lifts are different and there's a couple more exercises on each day.

EDIT: The first routine is straight Wendler. The second is a hypertrophy based routine that's similar in scheme to Wendler.

[Forumite]

No, it's very similar. It has the same main lifts the same days, the sets and reps on the main lifts are different and there's a couple more exercises on each day.

EDIT: The first routine is straight Wendler. The second is a hypertrophy based routine that's similar in scheme to Wendler.

I must have researched everything totally wrong (which is possible). I was under the impression that the lifts OP posted after the 5/3/1 lifts where possible subs according to periodization Bible. Was not aware that doing those along would be advised as I thought it would hinder strength gains doing the same exercises twice a week.

[GetHuge50]

No, it's very similar. It has the same main lifts the same days, the sets and reps on the main lifts are different and there's a couple more exercises on each day.

EDIT: The first routine is straight Wendler. The second is a hypertrophy based routine that's similar in scheme to Wendler.

Hey bro, PM'd You.. dont know if you saw or not.. But, it just is tough to balance an upper lower without too much clutter or volume which is why I thought of swithcing to phat..

i.e.
Bench 3x6-8
Incline DB Press 4x10
Bent Over Rows 3x10
Chins 3x10
Side Raises 3x10
Tris 3x10
Bis 3x10
=22 sets a lone right there which is borderline alot..


SHould I go with PHAT to mix it up or do you have any other ideas on how to set up a good upper lower with a decent ammount of volume but balanced.. it would be nice to have a good assistance base so if i ever wanted all I would have to do is change uip the main lifts reps..

aka
Bench 5/3/1 ---> 3x6-8
all accessory work the same

[DetMatthews]

I must have researched everything totally wrong (which is possible). I was under the impression that the lifts OP posted after the 5/3/1 lifts where possible subs according to periodization Bible. Was not aware that doing those along would be advised as I thought it would hinder strength gains doing the same exercises twice a week.

No it's part of the Boring But Big template which has the same exercises as a 5x10 at 50% after the main lift. The rest is higher volume assistance plus isolation exercises as needed. You're going heavy twice a week, the rest of the exercises are lower weight including the 5x10 lifts. The increased frequency should actually really help both muscle and strength gains.

[DetMatthews]

Hey bro, PM'd You.. dont know if you saw or not.. But, it just is tough to balance an upper lower without too much clutter or volume which is why I thought of swithcing to phat..

i.e.
Bench 3x6-8
Incline DB Press 4x10
Bent Over Rows 3x10
Chins 3x10
Side Raises 3x10
Tris 3x10
Bis 3x10
=22 sets a lone right there which is borderline alot..


SHould I go with PHAT to mix it up or do you have any other ideas on how to set up a good upper lower with a decent ammount of volume but balanced.. it would be nice to have a good assistance base so if i ever wanted all I would have to do is change uip the main lifts reps..

aka
Bench 5/3/1 ---> 3x6-8
all accessory work the same

PHAT is good, but I think you have the right idea. If I were you, I'd stick with the Boring But Big template as I think you'll be surprised at how much mass you gain. It's called "... But Big" for a reason. If you want something other than that, here's what I'd start with the basics:

1. Bench 4x6
Barbell Rows 4x10
DB Shoulder Press 4x10
Face pulls 4x10
*add isolation arm work as needed

2. Deadlift 4x6
Front Squat 4x10 (no idea if that's a good idea or not, mostly seen FS with very low reps, but it's a compound barbell quad dominant exercise lighter than the squat)
Isometric ab exercise (ab wheel, hanging leg raises, etc.) 4x10

3. Mil Press 4x6
Chins 4x10
DB Rows 4x10
DB Bench 4x10
*iso arm work as needed

4. Squat 4x6
RDL 4x10
Calf raises 4x10

Every upper body day has a horizontal pull, vertical pull, horizontal press, vertical press. (Actually Bench day has two horizontal pulls, but whatever.) Every leg day has a Heavy/Light quad dominant exercise, hip dominant exercise, and minor assistance work for that day's main lift. It's really basic and really boring, but it has enough volume and the exercises can be done heavy enough that you can certainly put on some size on something like that.

EDIT: Forgot to add *iso leg work as needed for the lower body days. Everything is hit twice a week.