Depletion / load related advise :)

[donz]

Hi guys just wanted some personal experience type stuff here from people who have competed before and obviously been through a dep/load phase. Just the two questions below if you have time !!

1: Is there anything you can do during deplete that would be detrimental - I'm talking about cardio? Should this be kept up through the 3 days or is it depending on the individual and how depleted they look/feel? If they're going well would it be a good or bad thing to lengthen the cardio duration or would it not really make much of a difference?
2: Is there any way or rough secret squirrel type of equation using bodyweight/height to work out how many carbs you should be having in terms of grams through out the 3 day load? Example is my friend did a comp not long ago, he was a really shredded natty 89 before load, his trainer/coach/guru guy who has won our Mr. NZ a few times back in the day had him on 900g of carbs roughly for day 1 of his load - using this example would he have worked it out using bodyweight x grams or just known based on how flat he might have looked?

Sorry if this seems really rookie or stupid I have tried googling it but really couldn't find anything that specific which is why I was hoping for personal opinion/exp from people who have done it and done it well.

Thanks heaps for any input and shared experience!

[MaudeMoo]

Read the stickies, mainly the one that is called "Peak week Q and A"

[donz]

Watching his cardio/training video was confusing as it was different from everything I'd previously been told and read hah! Not saying he's wrong of course just nuts how one competitor can be so different to another in prep!

[Pullup17]

For my glycogen depletion, I did not do any cardio but the main reason being I didn't do much cardio at all. I would say if you were doing cardio up till that point, just keep doing it, might want to tone down the duration or intensity though as going through this process is no fun, I was feeling lethargic, dizzy, had headaches and at times had cold sweat, probably due to hypoglycemia.

For the second one, it really is up to trial and error. I followed Layne's recommendation of doing a front carb load with moderate increases in carbs. Monday highest, tapering down till thursday then bumping it up slightly on friday. Now, I realized that I did fill out, but i could have been much more fuller, therefore if i were to compete next time, I would definitely increase my carbs for all five days.

[DomzyCuttin]

I would say keep it up if you still have fat on you. If you have absolutely no fat left then there would be no point. If the second is the case (which it almost never is) then you would want to eat closer to maintnance cals, maybe slightly under. To deplete in the second case, I would create a very small defecit and replace carb cals with fat and protein, keep the depletion workouts high volume.

[donz]

Thanks guys! A few diff friends have mentioned during their first loads they were worried/scared about too many carbs but ended up being way flatter than expected - as an ex fatty I'll probably end up like that hah!

[DomzyCuttin]

Thanks guys! A few diff friends have mentioned during their first loads they were worried/scared about too many carbs but ended up being way flatter than expected - as an ex fatty I'll probably end up like that hah!

OK heres a common misconception. Many guys will do a big carb load and still come in flat, they blame it on lack of carbs. Well the reason they cant even get a pump on show day is because they restricted water to much, used to much diuretics, and also because loading lots of food the day of the show before stage will cause blood to go to the digestive system. Remember this, when you are dieting and in the gym, yes you are not as full as when you are in full bulk mode, but you still get a pretty decent pump, why is that? Your eating relatively few carbs, especially in comparison to right before a contest when you are typically eating more carbs than even when your bulking. So how can carbs be the culprit? I see it at my gym all the time, a few weeks out these guys look sick in the gym, pumped, full, shredded, vascular. They get on stage flat, soft, squishy and smooth. But wait, they all carb loaded like crazy and they all cut water.

Edit - Too many carbs can screw you too. If the muscle is full, the carbs can draw water subq. This is a terrible look, not only does it smooth you out because some water goes under the skin, but you also look worst because the muscle loses some water. Everything in moderation!

[Sporto1633]

OK heres a common misconception. Many guys will do a big carb load and still come in flat, they blame it on lack of carbs. Well the reason they cant even get a pump on show day is because they restricted water to much, used to much diuretics, and also because loading lots of food the day of the show before stage will cause blood to go to the digestive system. Remember this, when you are dieting and in the gym, yes you are not as full as when you are in full bulk mode, but you still get a pretty decent pump, why is that? Your eating relatively few carbs, especially in comparison to right before a contest when you are typically eating more carbs than even when your bulking. So how can carbs be the culprit? I see it at my gym all the time, a few weeks out these guys look sick in the gym, pumped, full, shredded, vascular. They get on stage flat, soft, squishy and smooth. But wait, they all carb loaded like crazy and they all cut water.

Edit - Too many carbs can screw you too. If the muscle is full, the carbs can draw water subq. This is a terrible look, not only does it smooth you out because some water goes under the skin, but you also look worst because the muscle loses some water. Everything in moderation!

Actually, the main culprit for not being able to get a pump on show day is lack of sodium, not necessarily the restriciton of water. Natural diuretics exacerbate this because they are essentially potassium based herbal extracts...so if you have no clue what you are doing when it comes to sodium and potassium, then it will also be a cause of a lack of a pump. Obviously, people tend to do everything all at once (cut water down to absurd levels, cut sodium completely out, etc.) so they end up looking like a mess with every single thing they did being the culprit.

As for too many carbs, that is true to an extent (and ultimately depends on how you "peak"), however if you are truly glycogen depleted for your carb load, it is almost impossible to spill over within a 24 hour period. I have clients that take in well over 1000g of carbs the day before a show and don't come close to spilling over - of course, that's also because I have the other ingredients like water, sodium, potassium, etc. in check as well.

Unless you have someone in your corner that truly understands how these dynamics work, it is best to keep any peak week simple with the least amount of change as possible. There is very little you can do to enhance a look for a contest in the last week (or even last few days), unless you are so completely shredded that you might be able to tell a difference.

Best of luck

Sporto

[donz]

Thanks guys this is all really helpful

[donz]

BTW I'm still curious if there's an accurate, or even semi-rough idea of working out how many carbs per kg of body weight you should be loading with - unless you just smash them day 1 and then go based on how you look in a mirror haha :P

[Sporto1633]

BTW I'm still curious if there's an accurate, or even semi-rough idea of working out how many carbs per kg of body weight you should be loading with - unless you just smash them day 1 and then go based on how you look in a mirror haha :P

Research suggests that if you are completely glycogen depleted, you should be able to carb load anywhere from 12-16g X Bodyweight in Kg to achieve "supercompensation" in the muscle.

Sporto

[donz]

Awesome! Thanks so much!