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  1. #1
    Off the wagon PeterGibbons316's Avatar
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    Losing weight and training for sport - how to maintain strength? (reps)

    Alright so I've added something like 70 lbs to my squat over the past 5 months, but I want to change gears this coming spring, and I don't want to lose what I have been working so hard for.

    Goals for the next 6 months:
    • Run faster
    • Run longer
    • Jump higher
    • Lose 15 lbs
    • Maintain as much strength as possible

    I'm thinking my schedule will be something like this:

    Saturday: Long run (work up to 10 miles)
    Sunday: Rest
    Monday: Heavy squat, dead, OHP, short run
    Tuesday: Rest
    Wednesday: bench, short run
    Thursday: Plyometric/Interval training, medium run
    Friday: Rest

    If I am losing ~1 lb/week, only lifting my 4 core lifts once/week, what is a good target for set/reps/weight? Would something like 5/3/1 programming work here? Or should I just work up to something close to a 5RM each day? A challenging 3x5?

    Thanks in advance, reps for responses.
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  2. #2
    Registered User timmzzy1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by PeterGibbons316 View Post
    Alright so I've added something like 70 lbs to my squat over the past 5 months, but I want to change gears this coming spring, and I don't want to lose what I have been working so hard for.

    Goals for the next 6 months:
    • Run faster
    • Run longer
    • Jump higher
    • Lose 15 lbs
    • Maintain as much strength as possible

    I'm thinking my schedule will be something like this:

    Saturday: Long run (work up to 10 miles)
    Sunday: Rest
    Monday: Heavy squat, dead, OHP, short run
    Tuesday: Rest
    Wednesday: bench, short run
    Thursday: Plyometric/Interval training, medium run
    Friday: Rest

    If I am losing ~1 lb/week, only lifting my 4 core lifts once/week, what is a good target for set/reps/weight? Would something like 5/3/1 programming work here? Or should I just work up to something close to a 5RM each day? A challenging 3x5?

    Thanks in advance, reps for responses.
    Westside is a good style of training for athletes, when i played hockey i lost 20lbs and got stronger and faster, speed box squats with bands are great for jumping, the plyometrics are a good idea aswell
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  3. #3
    Banned KarlynSkuatrach's Avatar
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    IMO, there's not enough lifting time in the above schedule to support the muscle retention you'd want during a proper cut. Rather than try to do "everything" at once, do the cut first and get in those core lifts 2-3x week around 80-85% 3-5x5. Do some of the running in support of the deficit but not that whole schedule -- defer the harder running goals till after you're satisfied w/ the cut and LBM retention.

    You've got a 6-month goal, and goal weight is only 15lbs of cut. You can lose that pretty quickly in the first 3 mos., spend the rest of the time on the running/plyo goals.



    EDIT: Or just figure a way to get more lifting on that schedule, but it looks pretty cramped, to me.
    Last edited by KarlynSkuatrach; 12-16-2012 at 11:25 PM.
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  4. #4
    Off the wagon PeterGibbons316's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by timmzzy1 View Post
    Westside is a good style of training for athletes, when i played hockey i lost 20lbs and got stronger and faster, speed box squats with bands are great for jumping, the plyometrics are a good idea aswell
    I'll have to look into that - they have a ton of programs though, any specific recommendations that worked for you?

    Originally Posted by KarlynSkuatrach View Post
    IMO, there's not enough lifting time in the above schedule to support the muscle retention you'd want during a proper cut. Rather than try to do "everything" at once, do the cut first and get in those core lifts 2-3x week around 80-85% 3-5x5. Do some of the running in support of the deficit but not that whole schedule -- defer the harder running goals till after you're satisfied w/ the cut and LBM retention.

    You've got a 6-month goal, and goal weight is only 15lbs of cut. You can lose that pretty quickly in the first 3 mos., spend the rest of the time on the running/plyo goals.



    EDIT: Or just figure a way to get more lifting on that schedule, but it looks pretty cramped, to me.
    I think 80-85% for 3-5x5 is too much for me to recover from when eating at a deficit. For squat I'm currently doing a 5x5 with ~75% of my max once a week followed by a heavy triple (nearly a 3RM) later in the week (Texas Method), and I'm having to eat like crazy to recover from that.

    I like the idea of splitting it up and dropping the weight first a little more quickly though, I'll definitely give that some more thought.
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  5. #5
    Registered User timmzzy1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by PeterGibbons316 View Post
    I'll have to look into that - they have a ton of programs though, any specific recommendations that worked for you?
    I just followed the basic westside template, i know its not what they do but it worked for me, i found that bands and chains made a massive improvement to my explosiveness
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  6. #6
    I'm VitaminVendetta PerpetualMotion's Avatar
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    Simply losing weight will make you run faster, jump higher and run longer, more than dedicated training would do. If you still have more to lose after 15lbs, it would be more conducive than training individual qualities. That aside, training to be a long(ish) distance runner conflicts with being a powerful individual.

    I recall reading in a few sports science textbooks (Siff?) that it takes around 6 or so weeks to get an athlete's cardiovascular system up to snuff and that it's incredibly easy to maintain once it's developed. The idea is to dedicate yourself to this for the allotted time then be able to focus on other qualities while being able to maintain another.

    And if you want to run faster then you should look into sprinting as opposed to interval training. I've never understood why people reference sprinters (not saying that you did) when discussing interval training. Sprinters sprint with good technique, not in an incredibly fatigued state with extremely short rest breaks. There are some decent sprint articles out there (I've believe Erick Minor and Joe Defranco both have written one for average joes).
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  7. #7
    Off the wagon PeterGibbons316's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by PerpetualMotion View Post
    Simply losing weight will make you run faster, jump higher and run longer, more than dedicated training would do. If you still have more to lose after 15lbs, it would be more conducive than training individual qualities. That aside, training to be a long(ish) distance runner conflicts with being a powerful individual.

    I recall reading in a few sports science textbooks (Siff?) that it takes around 6 or so weeks to get an athlete's cardiovascular system up to snuff and that it's incredibly easy to maintain once it's developed. The idea is to dedicate yourself to this for the allotted time then be able to focus on other qualities while being able to maintain another.

    And if you want to run faster then you should look into sprinting as opposed to interval training. I've never understood why people reference sprinters (not saying that you did) when discussing interval training. Sprinters sprint with good technique, not in an incredibly fatigued state with extremely short rest breaks. There are some decent sprint articles out there (I've believe Erick Minor and Joe Defranco both have written one for average joes).
    The "sport" I am training for is Ultimate Frisbee, but would also like to be a good basketball player as well. Both of which involve a good deal of hard sprints followed by slow jogs followed by hard sprints, etc. So in that regard I think the interval training would help. But to your point - I could definitely improve my technique so that when I do find myself in those hard sprint situations my peak speed is considerably faster than it is now. As far as the distance running goes - I'm still mixed on this. I just want to be able to run around a field/court for about an hour or so without just feeling completely out of gas. In the past distance running has helped, but I'm starting to think that if I just stuck to the plyo/speed work that maybe I wouldn't need to overwhelm myself with all that running.

    When I played earlier this year I was about 15 lbs lighter and was an all around better athlete than what I am now, but I want to train to be even better this coming year.
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  8. #8
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    If you're just wanting to drop 15-20 lbs keto is my suggestion. If you're not worried about losing mass, then drop calories.
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    Check out this article. I wish I had seen this before I started training for soccer:

    http://www.atlargenutrition.com/blog...and-be-strong/
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    Off the wagon PeterGibbons316's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by paulosantos0922 View Post
    Check out this article. I wish I had seen this before I started training for soccer:

    http://www.atlargenutrition.com/blog...and-be-strong/
    That was really helpful, and makes complete since. Honestly I think I was pretty close to hitting something close to what he recommended, here is what I had at first:

    Originally Posted by PeterGibbons316 View Post
    Saturday: Long run (work up to 10 miles)
    Sunday: Rest
    Monday: Heavy squat, dead, OHP, short run
    Tuesday: Rest
    Wednesday: bench, short run
    Thursday: Plyometric/Interval training, medium run
    Friday: Rest
    And this was the recommended routine:
    Day 1: ME upper body/bench, light recovery run
    Day 2: REST
    Day 3: ME lower body, speed/interval work
    Day 4: Short race pace run
    Day 5: DE upper body, running form drills
    Day 6: DE lower body
    Day 7: Long slow distance run
    The only problem for me is that I don't really have 4 days to lift on top of 2 days to run. I need more time for work and family. I do think I need to incorporate some DE work though, so this is what I think I will probably go with:

    Saturday: Long run
    Sunday: Rest
    Monday: Medium run
    Tuesday: DE day, short run
    Wednesday: Rest
    Thursday: ME day (squat, bench, dead), plyo/interval
    Friday: Rest
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  11. #11
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    In my experience, field sports are typically anaerobic bursts of speed/agility with very light aerobic running as I moved end to end.

    For instance, as a mid-fielder (soccer) I'd go from 18 yard box to 18 yard box, which is a 64 yard sprint, which do to the motion of the ball is something I rarely ever had to do all in one go. It was usually a series of 10-20 yard sprints with short breaks as I jockeyed for position.

    Being able to run 10 miles seems a bit overkill and pretty counter productive if your goal is a field and/or indoor sport. Training your anaerobic system and improving your work/recovery rates would be a better choice. I would stick to running shorter distances that will allow you to maintain a fast running form rather than a slow jogging form since that's what you'll generally be using during a game. I'd also youtube up a bunch of speed/agility drills and build them into a session. Do a 1 or 2 mile fast run as a warm up followed by 20 minutes of drills.
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    Originally Posted by somedude999 View Post
    In my experience, field sports are typically anaerobic bursts of speed/agility with very light aerobic running as I moved end to end.

    For instance, as a mid-fielder (soccer) I'd go from 18 yard box to 18 yard box, which is a 64 yard sprint, which do to the motion of the ball is something I rarely ever had to do all in one go. It was usually a series of 10-20 yard sprints with short breaks as I jockeyed for position.

    Being able to run 10 miles seems a bit overkill and pretty counter productive if your goal is a field and/or indoor sport. Training your anaerobic system and improving your work/recovery rates would be a better choice. I would stick to running shorter distances that will allow you to maintain a fast running form rather than a slow jogging form since that's what you'll generally be using during a game. I'd also youtube up a bunch of speed/agility drills and build them into a session. Do a 1 or 2 mile fast run as a warm up followed by 20 minutes of drills.
    I was thinking about this too. I'm more concerned with having the ability to play a sport for 90 minutes straight, which is about how long it would take me to run 10 miles. But being able to run distances doesn't really concern me as much. I ran a half-marathon a couple years ago, but don't really care to do it again - in fact, I haven't ran since then. Maybe instead of doing long runs I can just go play basketball.
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    Originally Posted by PeterGibbons316 View Post
    Maybe instead of doing long runs I can just go play basketball.
    It'd be a lot more fun.

    When I played competitive soccer I used to avoid extra running and rode my bike everywhere. Less impact on the knees and the process of riding in traffic, on trails and up/down hills is basically interval training. I could ride my bike to work however, so riding was easy to fit into my lifestyle.
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  15. #15
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    Originally Posted by PeterGibbons316 View Post
    Alright so I've added something like 70 lbs to my squat over the past 5 months, but I want to change gears this coming spring, and I don't want to lose what I have been working so hard for.

    Goals for the next 6 months:
    • Run faster
    • Run longer
    • Jump higher
    • Lose 15 lbs
    • Maintain as much strength as possible
    1. Run faster
    Focus on sprints, explosive lifting, agility drills, strength training and running technique
    2. Run longer
    Why do you want to run longer? You will have plenty of cardiovascular benefit from training from a faster run. Running long 10 miles is not sports specific to ultimate frisbee or basketball. If you're going on long runs to lose more weight, you are better spending that effort into your diet.
    3. Jump higher
    olympic lifts, heavy lifting, plyometrics, and jumping technique
    4. Lose 15 pounds
    Focus on your diet. Read the stickies in the nutrition forums.
    5. Maintain as much strength as possible
    Don't lose your weight rapidly. Keep protein levels up. Reduce volume if you have to but maintain intensity.

    That's my 2 cents. Make your training more sports specific and ditch the 10 mile run.
    - Tony Paradis, RD, LD, USAW, USAPL
    FoodandFitnessOnline.com
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  16. #16
    Off the wagon PeterGibbons316's Avatar
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    I guess my goal isn't necessarily to "run longer", but to be able to maintain an elevated heart rate for a period of about 90 minutes.
    My Journal (RIP 05/11 - 09/13):
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=134256491

    DIY Plyo Boxes:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=151765733
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    5.0 paulosantos0922's Avatar
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    When I was getting ready for soccer, I don't remember running more than a 5K once in a while. I got more out of doing 4x800's, 6x400's, and 8x200's. I used to do a warm-up and cool-down 800 meter run. If possible, I'd keep the strength training to at least 3xWeek or you will lose strength.
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    Diet slow with a minimal deficit. While dieting down for my bodybuilding shows I had a 5+ month prep and was able to gain strength up until I got extremely lean about a few weeks out. If you have 6 months go for around 0.5lbs a week.
    Last edited by QUADZofPEACE; 12-19-2012 at 12:02 PM.
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    I'd program with something like Starr's 5x5 and do something like this:

    Monday: Lift (heavy)
    Tuesday: Long Run
    Wednesday: Lift (light)
    Thursday: Plyo's/Sprints
    Friday: Lift (medium)
    Saturday: Long Run
    Sunday: Rest

    Of course you could alternate the long runs and sprints depending on what you want to be better at. Or just alternate them every week.

    If you want to be good at all these things you gotta be willing to put in more than 4 days a week IMO.
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