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  1. #1
    Registered User pyaarawala's Avatar
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    Sumo DL Form Check

    Deadlift 305 lbs:


    What do you guys think? Anything I should/shouldn't be doing? I feel pretty good doing these deadlifts, no abnormal pain or anything. Thanks.
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  2. #2
    No Pain No Gain GymMeathead's Avatar
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    Try to control it a lil more on the negative and not just let it drop, but otherwise looked pretty good.
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  3. #3
    Registered User scorpionsf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GymMeathead View Post
    Try to control it a lil more on the negative and not just let it drop, but otherwise looked pretty good.
    lol at you saying he is dropping them. clearly unaware.

    dont be afraid to drop the facking bar down hard. there is nothing in any fed that says you have to be that slow or under control lowering the bar. keep your hands on the bar and let it slam
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  4. #4
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    Originally Posted by scorpionsf View Post
    lol at you saying he is dropping them. clearly unaware.

    dont be afraid to drop the facking bar down hard. there is nothing in any fed that says you have to be that slow or under control lowering the bar. keep your hands on the bar and let it slam
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  5. #5
    blood&sweat&many blisters endymion88's Avatar
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    get your shoulders behind the bar aside from that not too bad for a new guy to lifting
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  6. #6
    Registered User Jason2459's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by scorpionsf View Post
    lol at you saying he is dropping them. clearly unaware.

    dont be afraid to drop the facking bar down hard. there is nothing in any fed that says you have to be that slow or under control lowering the bar. keep your hands on the bar and let it slam
    Be careful with that because it is in the rules that you need to be in control of the bar and lifters have gotten warnings and redlights from letting the bar down to fast even though their hands were on the bar the entire time. OP is good with how he lowered it.
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  7. #7
    Registered User pyaarawala's Avatar
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    Some things I noticed by watching the video myself before posting it up here was this:

    1) Shoulders should definitely be more behind the bar. I realized I wasn't pulling back enough, more like just pulling up. A DL should involve pulling up AND back, right?
    2) I thought my hips are rising a bit early, before the bar actually gets off the ground, effectively using mostly the back and less legs. Am I turning the lift more into a SLDL? Or is it still okay? Maybe this will be corrected on its own once I get my shoulders more behind the bar and pull back.

    I'll take a front view next time so you guys could a bit clearer. As for the negative, I was told if you're trying to build strength, just let the bar drop on the negative to avoid wasting energy that can be used for your next few reps. And another big problem I have w/ lowering the weight slowly is that I just can't seem to keep my lower back straight while lowering heavy weight.

    Thanks for the advice everyone! Front view video will come in a few days from now when I DL again.
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  8. #8
    Registered User pyaarawala's Avatar
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    I finally got a new front video for my Sumo DL PR of 3 plates!!

    Sumo DL 315 lbs PR! 1x5:



    What do you guys think?
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  9. #9
    Registered User RawBear's Avatar
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    You definately have tightness in your hips, which impedes your ability to get down? seems to me like your semi straight legging it.
    Not tight at all when you pull? Not taking slack from the bar.
    Force your knees out more. Tighten lats a whole lot more. Head back into traps.

    just my $0.02
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  10. #10
    Registered User Zeitnot's Avatar
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    From the first video I could've sworn you weren't going wide enough because your hips are way too high, as high as a conventional deadlift (either that or you had abnormally long legs). From the second video I see that I was right. The entire point of a sumo deadlift is to minimize the cantilever. Get those feet wider and those hips down. This will also straighten out our torso to be more upright. Minimal joint range is the goal with sumo's.

    For example; [w]ww.youtube.com/watch?v=FJGoQ3ng2rE

    Oleksander Kutcher; shorter than you and his feet are wider. Pause the video @ 1 second and notice his alignment.
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  11. #11
    Is a Turtle Torrtrefireto's Avatar
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    Lower the bar as fast as you are allowed to at your gym, ignore anyone who says to do it slowly. If you are allowed to drop it, why not, assuming you have bumper plates

    Shoulders needed to come back, don't worry about them being all the way behind the bar

    http://digitalcommons.wku.edu/ijes/vol5/iss3/1/

    This study, if you can find it, suggests what I think is a much more reasonable alignment, instead of having the bar and the top of your shoulder in a line (navicular->bar->acromion process), it basically has the bar and pretty much your armpit in a line (navicular->bar->scapular spine)
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  12. #12
    Registered User pyaarawala's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RawBear View Post
    You definately have tightness in your hips, which impedes your ability to get down? seems to me like your semi straight legging it.
    Not tight at all when you pull? Not taking slack from the bar.
    Force your knees out more. Tighten lats a whole lot more. Head back into traps.

    just my $0.02
    Damn I just typed a whole response to all the replies and accidentally hit the back button on my mouse and lost all my responses!

    Yeah I have tightness in my hips. Never really worked on hip mobility at all. Guess it's cuz I've never really researched it properly. I thought I got tight enough...I usually take in a deep breath and make sure my arms are locked out, and straighten my lower back then pull. Nothing else really. It's hard to tighten my shoulder blades with my arms out in front of me. Also, what do you mean by taking slack from the bar? And head back into traps?

    Originally Posted by Zeitnot View Post
    From the first video I could've sworn you weren't going wide enough because your hips are way too high, as high as a conventional deadlift (either that or you had abnormally long legs). From the second video I see that I was right. The entire point of a sumo deadlift is to minimize the cantilever. Get those feet wider and those hips down. This will also straighten out our torso to be more upright. Minimal joint range is the goal with sumo's.

    For example; [w]ww.youtube.com/watch?v=FJGoQ3ng2rE

    Oleksander Kutcher; shorter than you and his feet are wider. Pause the video @ 1 second and notice his alignment.
    I see. Guess I really gotta work on that hip mobility. A straighter torso will probably put more lower body work into it, right? Cuz the way I do it now I feel it mostly in my entire back, especially lower back.

    Originally Posted by Torrtrefireto View Post
    Lower the bar as fast as you are allowed to at your gym, ignore anyone who says to do it slowly. If you are allowed to drop it, why not, assuming you have bumper plates

    Shoulders needed to come back, don't worry about them being all the way behind the bar

    http://digitalcommons.wku.edu/ijes/vol5/iss3/1/

    This study, if you can find it, suggests what I think is a much more reasonable alignment, instead of having the bar and the top of your shoulder in a line (navicular->bar->acromion process), it basically has the bar and pretty much your armpit in a line (navicular->bar->scapular spine)
    Yeah no one deadlifts in my gym besides some RDLs and other random partial deadlifts in a rack. So it attracts a lot of attention when I do them, especially dropping them. But they don't have bumper plates and no one has ever complained about it so whatever.

    Interesting article, I'll try to get my scapular spine above the bar instead of the AC joint. Hopefully widening my stance and getting my hips lower, and torso more upright will accomplish this. Thanks!
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by pyaarawala View Post
    Damn I just typed a whole response to all the replies and accidentally hit the back button on my mouse and lost all my responses!

    Yeah I have tightness in my hips. Never really worked on hip mobility at all. Guess it's cuz I've never really researched it properly. I thought I got tight enough...I usually take in a deep breath and make sure my arms are locked out, and straighten my lower back then pull. Nothing else really. It's hard to tighten my shoulder blades with my arms out in front of me. Also, what do you mean by taking slack from the bar? And head back into traps?
    Tightness to me is just like a spring. When it's compressed it stores a lot of energy (when your tight and you setup properly you are almost like a compressed spring) when released it will take the stored energy and release it with a huge amount of force (your whole body is like an compressed spring at this point. When you pull your releasing all the energy you have built up from your setup). It's almost too hard to explain on here. Basically becoming tight at the bottom of your setup and pulling the slack from the bar will allow you to build energy and use that stored energy to increase your lift.

    Pulling the slack from the bar means taking the tension from the bar, the 'slack' that is present. It is the movement that can be applied up and down creating a loose and uncontrollable whip when you pull, it basically takes all your energy from the lift. Try shaking the bar next time, it will move up and down. That is your slack. When you setup next time, before your lift, tighten your lats this should pull the slack from the bar and keep you a lot tighter.

    Head back into traps means what it reads. Slam your head back into your traps on the up phase of the lift. Your head is like a giant compass, where it points your spine and core will follow. Head is down your body wants to go down and forward. Head is back your body wants to tip itself in that direction, backwards. By placing the head on the traps and keeping it tight while looking up you create a backward motion that the rest of your body will want to follow.

    Well, all of this applies to me anyway. You need to really find your own groove. Setups are different for all people. I almost squat into position and I have a hard time seeing the bar, but I'm tight.
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  14. #14
    Registered User pyaarawala's Avatar
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    I tried implementing you guys' advice. Got a wider stance in the first video, and an even wider stance in the second video. But it still seems like my hips are really high? It still looks like I'm doing most of the lift with my back? I got my head driving into my traps, I'm looking up to help guide my spine/torso up, shoulders are mostly above the bar, what's wrong? Do I need to assume an even wider stance? I feel like my legs are doing next to no work to lift the weight and that it's mostly back.

    It's like I try to lift with my hips down, but the weight won't move so I end up using my back to start the lift.

    Deadlift 325 lbs: Wider stance than my old stance, hips still seem too high. 2 complete rep and 1 incomplete rep:


    Deadlift 325 lbs: Took an even wider stance than the previous video, but hips STILL seem too high. I seem to rely mostly on my back to initiate the lift:
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    Work on your mobility in the hips. And also, force your knees out more.
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    Jesus god knees need to be pushed out to the side way way way way more
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    Registered User pyaarawala's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RawBear View Post
    Work on your mobility in the hips. And also, force your knees out more.
    Originally Posted by TBU720 View Post
    Jesus god knees need to be pushed out to the side way way way way more
    Wow this knees out thing is starting to haunt me again. I thought I solved that issue I had from the conventional DL now that I'm pulling sumo. But now that you guys mention it I really see it. Is this because my PC is weak so I'm relying more on my quads?

    Would this weight feel lighter if I get my hips down lower by pushing the knees out more? And yeah I'm gonna google hip mobility work and see what I can do. All I really know is just to keep practicing third world squats. But I can never get that deep and stay comfortable unless I'm holding onto something sturdy like a power rack.
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    Back at square one wakechica's Avatar
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    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post993650853

    This thread is full of hip mobility ideas/exercises
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    Registered User RawBear's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pyaarawala View Post
    Would this weight feel lighter if I get my hips down lower by pushing the knees out more? And yeah I'm gonna google hip mobility work and see what I can do. All I really know is just to keep practicing third world squats. But I can never get that deep and stay comfortable unless I'm holding onto something sturdy like a power rack.
    Basically.... No. It will feel heavy as sh!t like all Sumo deads do at the start. You might not even be able to put up the weight you are now. Leave the ego at the door and practice your form. As far as being quad dominate, nearly everyone is man.

    Watch this for Sumo Deads by Dave Tate, just the start.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp8Sx9dX9LM
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  20. #20
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    Here is an idea that helped me get my hips down to the right position- setup a box at the height you are looking for, and sumo pull with a touch-and-go off the box. Don't sit so much back on it like a box squat, but rather use it for height, and drop down til you feel the box, then pull. Do it a few times, video it, then take the box away and try to mimic the feeling.

    The idea height varies with every lifter, but usually its about 2-3 inches above parallel. you are not squatting you are pulling, so think where you are strongest in your squat? usually not at parallel, but hips slightly higher.

    hope this helps - it worked for me.
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  21. #21
    Registered User TBU720's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pyaarawala View Post
    Wow this knees out thing is starting to haunt me again. I thought I solved that issue I had from the conventional DL now that I'm pulling sumo. But now that you guys mention it I really see it. Is this because my PC is weak so I'm relying more on my quads?

    Would this weight feel lighter if I get my hips down lower by pushing the knees out more? And yeah I'm gonna google hip mobility work and see what I can do. All I really know is just to keep practicing third world squats. But I can never get that deep and stay comfortable unless I'm holding onto something sturdy like a power rack.
    Theres your problem dude.

    The ability to squat is a basic human movement. You are lifting heavy ass weights and you can't even move properly unweighted. Don't go in the weight room again until you figure out how to do a somewhat comfortable bodyweight squat. Put your whole attention into that. Take 5 hours tonight if you have to and just learn how to do a damn squat without holding on to anything.

    Chances are it is a technique issue. Push your knees out to the side hard and be sure to lean forward. Put your arms straight in front of you as a counterbalance. Experiment with stance width.
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  22. #22
    Keeping it simple 817boy's Avatar
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    Get shoulders behind bar (if you cant try your hardest to do so)

    Spread your feet out, if i try to sumo Dl w/ a narrow stance (like in your videos) i cant get my hips down and my sumo DL looks like a stiff leg sumo DL

    When your feet are out wider it will be easier to push your knees out.

    Watch these videos:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp8Sx9dX9LM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Je9EUAKjHE
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rKvo...kyF4A&index=14
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  23. #23
    Registered User pyaarawala's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TBU720 View Post
    Theres your problem dude.

    The ability to squat is a basic human movement. You are lifting heavy ass weights and you can't even move properly unweighted. Don't go in the weight room again until you figure out how to do a somewhat comfortable bodyweight squat. Put your whole attention into that. Take 5 hours tonight if you have to and just learn how to do a damn squat without holding on to anything.

    Chances are it is a technique issue. Push your knees out to the side hard and be sure to lean forward. Put your arms straight in front of you as a counterbalance. Experiment with stance width.
    How do I know if my hip mobility is any good? After doing a foam rolling warmup for the hips that I found off Google, I notice I can squat down easier but I still completely round my back and have to have my hands out in front of me w/ my elbows resting on top of my knees. Does this mean that my hip tightness is gone? Or I should be able to squat down completely and also have my back completely straight/arched? This seems impossible to do.

    When I sit down in a full squat with my arms out in front, back completely rounded, I can get well below parallel. Only way for me to straight my back is to bring my hips up to about parallel by holding onto something sturdy.
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    Back at square one wakechica's Avatar
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    Your hips are still coming up. Drop the weight and work on form. You need to use your legs more.

    Don't snatch and think about driving through your heels and feet which in turn will make it a lift that uses your PC instead of arms/back
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  25. #25
    Registered User pyaarawala's Avatar
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    These are my latest videos. I now use a different setup. The one that Dave Tate teaches in 'Teaching the Deadlift' on Youtube. Basically start with the shins against the bar, and drop down straight, nutsack above the bar, knees out hard, grab the bar and pull. Please critique it and see if it's any better. Am I still using my back too much or am I getting some PC involved? If I'm still not getting it right I think I'll just deload to 275 or something and work my way back up:

    Warmup set 4, 275 lbs: Please compare the form here and in my workset, so I can determine if weight is an issue or not:


    Workset 1, 325 lbs:
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  26. #26
    1500 raw will be wrecked baxtej44's Avatar
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    nobody can say for certain if you are using enough PC in all reality becuase everyone's leverages are different and what not... does it feel right to you? that last set still looks light and you still have quite a bit of rest between each rep. i understand resetting, but IMO it could be quicker.. but not sure that has that much of an impact.

    are you leaning back in the lift? it looks like you could sit back into the lift a bit more. your grip looks a bit too narrow, but it's hard with the angle. ideally you want your arms to be straight down from the shoulder... parallel with your torso.
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