My FB post on guns & civillians...

[Smelly bull]

Have you not noticed the revolutions taking place in the middle east? It is far more difficult for even a tyrannical government to do what it wills once it is forced to use lethal force on its own people. Once that happens it tends to multiply the number of people who will take a stand, and it is far more difficult to do when those very people are armed, even if those arms are small potatoes in comparison to government weapons.

The bigger issue, and one that most fail to ask is why do our politicians focus on the tool of violence rather then the cause? Most of the countries with far higher firearm murder rates then the US (which is around 3 per 100,000) also have far fewer weapons per capita then the US. Conversely a country like Switzerland where all citizens are armed is lower (.5 per 100,000). The issue has nothing to do with firearms and everything to do with our society. The real issue is lack of economic opportunity, lousy educational system, and single parent homes where boys are being raised without a strong male role model in the home to enforce right and wrong. These kids grow up stupid, they grow up where their role models present themselves as gangster and that supposed to be cool. Its not just inner city, kids in the 'burbs are no better off anymore. Not all fall into that category, from the sounds of things yesterdays killer did not, but sick people will always exist and bad things will never be able to be completely prevented.

Take away the guns and you will simply force them to adapt, and they will, they will find a way to lash out and only a fool would believe otherwise.

If your real concern is stopping events like happened yesterday then guns would not be very high on your list of what needs to be fixed.

This is one of the best reads I have ever found on this website.

[NorwichGrad]

Three pages on pro and anti gun stance and nobody talks about or blames other elements.

What about our culture? What about drugs and video games?

Our young generation are the most drugged up people in this country. Here, Junior, you have ADD. Take some of this crap. What about video games? They freakin desensitize the mind. And soldier will tell you that we,including me, were trained to kill by training in realistic environment. And the technology that we used in the army somehow was replicated in video games and sheet.

What about God? He was removed from our schools. What is wrong with the Ten Commandment? Thou shall not kill. It tells us, yo, dude, dont kill. Whats wrong with that? What about Love your neighbors? And Thou shall not steal? Whats wrong with these?

If there is a guaranteed assurance that giving my guns would completely eliminate crime, and that the government would not enslave its citizens, id be the first gook in the bush to give up all of my guns, including my semi auto rock river.

[NorwichGrad]

BTW, gang. Lets take it easy on John. We know hes a good father and grandfather. His comment on children was made because he, like the rest of us, is raging. We are all pissed off at the situation. And sometimes we type things when we mean to say other things.

[TonyNail]

Our young generation are the most drugged up people in this country. Here, Junior, you have ADD. Take some of this crap.

Came in to post his exact statement. Some kids are on psych meds from the time they start school. Back in my day if a kid was hyper and couldn't sit still, they weren't given pills.

[Marius_Ursus]

Why are all the shooters in the news the past couple years psychiatric patients?

Something's not right about this.

Cho, Tyler, Loughner, and Lanza...all psychiatric patients.

[jdtemple]

Why are all the shooters in the news the past couple years psychiatric patients?

Something's not right about this.

Cho, Tyler, Loughner, and Lanza...all psychiatric patients.

Exactly.

This is not a gun control issue, other than the fact that those innocent people were stripped of their right to defend themselves the moment they walked through the doors of that building and that mom wasn't very good at locking her sh*t up.

This is a mental health issue.

[so-tex]

That's another thing I truly don't understand.


The government has nucear weapons. If they really wanted to go tyrannical, some guys with guns are gonna do exactly what against that?

Using nuclear weopons against its own people would be counter productive. It would affect the government that used them against their own.

[Corbi]

Three pages on pro and anti gun stance and nobody talks about or blames other elements.

What about our culture? What about drugs and video games?

I honestly do believe the violent video games as well as a lot of the music of today, I won't single out rap although it is the worst offender, are responsible for a lot of the youth acting the way they do. Funny how when I was young we had no video games, we were out in the fields building forts, playing cowboys and indians and just being kids. We didn't have daily doese of uber violent games and music lyrics. People came to high school with guns in the back windows of their trucks as well as trunks because they were used for one thing and that was hunting after school. Tons of high schoolers would get out of school for the day and go deer hunting, duck hunting, pheasant, etc. Never once did any of us ever go ballistic and walk into a school wanting to kill people while armed. It just wasn't in our nature.

We were watching our oldest grandson last yr for an extended period, he was 9 and played a lot of video games. After a few weeks for lack of a better term he started acting like an @sshole, just sorta rude and not the sweet child we knew. Turned out he was basically trying to act out a few of the video games he was playing, I had a couple of the Grand Theft auto ones and found out that's what he had been playing. We took away every semi violent and worse game and left him with stuff like Lego Batman and Star Wars, within a week he started changing and became the kid we knew again.

[Brackneyc]

Came in to post his exact statement. Some kids are on psych meds from the time they start school. Back in my day if a kid was hyper and couldn't sit still, they weren't given pills.

What did they do with kids in "your day?"

[Corbi]

What did they do with kids in "your day?"

Electro Shock therapy with a cattle prod.

[Brackneyc]

Electro Shock therapy with a cattle prod.

I thought I was the only one that had that done....Small world.


Srsly funny to hear a guy tell about what they did in "his day," or "where he comes from." LOFL

[Jrob69]

The 2nd ammendment was/is to protect us from a tyrannical government.

Thats right and people shouldn't forget it forget it. Now that is more important than ever.

[Funds]

he did not use automatic weapons....

[Jrob69]

he did not use automatic weapons....

even if he had its irrelevant- look at the wacko in china that used a knife. Its a sad world. Better armed than not.

[TonyNail]

What did they do with kids in "your day?"

Threw chalkboard erasers at em

[Brackneyc]

Threw chalkboard erasers at em

There are no chalkboards now.

[Corbi]

There are no chalkboards now.

What? When did this happen? That's what's wrong with this world, no chalk boards.

[Brackneyc]

What? When did this happen? That's what's wrong with this world, no chalk boards.

Whiteboards (dry erase) and smart boards. I find the lack of chalk dust to be one of the main issues in schools today.

[TheLBM]

There is absolutely no reason any civilian should have access to an automatic weapon.

I do not believe an "automatic" weapon was used.
And,,, if you are even a little proficient with any weapon at all you can touch off rounds in a matter of seconds. A 12 ga can be emptied almost instantaneously as can a revolver.
They can be reloaded very quickly as well.

[paolo59]

Whiteboards (dry erase) and smart boards. I find the lack of chalk dust to be one of the main issues in schools today.

The kids loved to take those erasers out to the patio and pound away to get the chalk dust out! I can remember doing that when I was a kid! Those 'whiteboard' erasers are light. They hardly get a kid's attention when thrown!

[philipj]

I got my first gun while in the sixth grade, and continue to own and use weapons.

Only if you are interested in the truth, non of the crazy gun take away bs. Find the "Coast to Coast AM" radio program that followed the shooting in Conn. I have had more than a passing interest in weapons, law enforcement and good health forever. If you sit and listen to both hours, please excuse the one idiot from Colorado that called in, yhou will have a new volumn of ulta useful information available to you.

I listened to it live, the next day we relistened to it on the www. It is available for free.

[Corbi]

I do not believe an "automatic" weapon was used.
And,,, if you are even a little proficient with any weapon at all you can touch off rounds in a matter of seconds. A 12 ga can be emptied almost instantaneously as can a revolver.
They can be reloaded very quickly as well.

I stated the 12 gauge bit on a different board when one guy said those were fine but in his words "assault weapons" weren't. Told him I could unload my 5 shot pump in about the time he could blink and I guarantee it will do more damage than an AR. Knee jerk reactions from people who know absolutely nothing about guns except what the media tells them or what they see in movies.

[Funds]

even if he had its irrelevant- look at the wacko in china that used a knife. Its a sad world. Better armed than not.

agreed. just pointing out one of OP's lack of facts found within the first couple sentences.

[so-tex]

Electro Shock therapy with a cattle prod.

We used to use cattle prods, or as we call them in Texas 'hot shots' on each other when we were kids. It sure was a good wake up call.

[mslman71]

I've heard a lot of commentaries on the news lately, and they all basically go like this: "...now is the time for a frank discussion on reasonable gun control laws.... so that we can send our children out in the world without fear."

Given, for lack of a better word, the failure rate of gun owners (1 part in tens of millions) how exactly does one define ahead of time what a reasonable gun law is? Does one pass laws with the best of intentions and then decide they are reasonable after the fact based on some measure of a reduction in what amounts to an already extremely unlikely and infrequent event? I won't get into the gory details of the logical and mathematical flaws with such an approach (it is something we deal with in high-reliability systems) but what I would like to hear is what they think reasonable means and if they can trace that reasonable back to a measure of reduction in probability. Or, if they are just another group of dips who waive the flag and say that doing something is inherently better than doing nothing. What happens when all manner of laws are passed and the rates aren't reduced? Then what? Will we undo the slew of restrictions and start anew? Of course we won't.

The world is a risky place. You are never safe. From my little corner of the universe I see the risk-reward of allowing one to be armed worth the risk. It's an imperfect calculation but there are no perfect answers.

According to the journal of pediatrics about 10 children die per year by choking to death on hot dogs. When integrated since the first notable shootings in the 1990s that means more children have died from hot dogs than from mass shootings. I guess that type of death isn't sexy enough for the media to report on -- doesn't get them ratings.

[TheLBM]

I stated the 12 gauge bit on a different board when one guy said those were fine but in his words "assault weapons" weren't. Told him I could unload my 5 shot pump in about the time he could blink and I guarantee it will do more damage than an AR. Knee jerk reactions from people who know absolutely nothing about guns except what the media tells them or what they see in movies.

I couldn't agree more. Would much rather have as AR pointed at me then a 12 ga.

Not that i want anything pointed at me at all.

[TheLBM]

We used to use cattle prods, or as we call them in Texas 'hot shots' on each other when we were kids. It sure was a good wake up call.

Ever pee on an electric fence?

[mslman71]

We used to use cattle prods, or as we call them in Texas 'hot shots' on each other when we were kids. It sure was a good wake up call.

Damn those things hurt.

On a similar note, do you know how hard it is to time the pulses of an electric fence when trying to jump it?

[Trinity1216]

I stated the 12 gauge bit on a different board when one guy said those were fine but in his words "assault weapons" weren't. Told him I could unload my 5 shot pump in about the time he could blink and I guarantee it will do more damage than an AR. Knee jerk reactions from people who know absolutely nothing about guns except what the media tells them or what they see in movies.

Because people are sheep and will follow all the media hype. I was having a debate in the R&P section, where they were having the anti gun rant. They are blaming the guns and not the person. Just last week 18 kids were killed in a school in China, they used a Knife, should we ban all knives? Also there are people being killed everyday by drunk drivers, should we ban cars? I just think it's sad that people are so quickly to blame the weapon and not the person. Obviously this kid (just like the dozens of others that have done similar things) had issues, and everyone turned a blind eye. I think we should concentrate on finding ways of to pinpoint kids that have issues and get them help before they go on a killing spree.

[grace_ou]

Have you not noticed the revolutions taking place in the middle east? It is far more difficult for even a tyrannical government to do what it wills once it is forced to use lethal force on its own people. Once that happens it tends to multiply the number of people who will take a stand, and it is far more difficult to do when those very people are armed, even if those arms are small potatoes in comparison to government weapons.

The bigger issue, and one that most fail to ask is why do our politicians focus on the tool of violence rather then the cause? Most of the countries with far higher firearm murder rates then the US (which is around 3 per 100,000) also have far fewer weapons per capita then the US. Conversely a country like Switzerland where all citizens are armed is lower (.5 per 100,000). The issue has nothing to do with firearms and everything to do with our society. The real issue is lack of economic opportunity, lousy educational system, and single parent homes where boys are being raised without a strong male role model in the home to enforce right and wrong. These kids grow up stupid, they grow up where their role models present themselves as gangster and that supposed to be cool. Its not just inner city, kids in the 'burbs are no better off anymore. Not all fall into that category, from the sounds of things yesterdays killer did not, but sick people will always exist and bad things will never be able to be completely prevented.

Take away the guns and you will simply force them to adapt, and they will, they will find a way to lash out and only a fool would believe otherwise.

If your real concern is stopping events like happened yesterday then guns would not be very high on your list of what needs to be fixed.

In this country they would simply adapt by building bombs. They are just to easy to build here. We have raw materials and instructions everywhere. That to me is a scary thought then guns.

But I don't think the issue in this case is guns. I really think the idea of giving elementary school teachers guns is a good idea. It's the most preposterous idea to come out of this! Simply think about the idea of an untrained teacher walking a class of little kids with a loaded gun. I don't know how anyone can seriously think that is a good idea. Just having a gun want protect anyone in that situation. You need more then a gun. You need to know how to respond, how to stay calm, how not to simply shoot at anything that moves and then you have the problem of what happens when a cop shows up and he can't tell who the bad guy is if everyone has a gun. What happens when another good citizen with a gun comes along and he wasn't a witness to what happen? That person will probably just shoot at anyone with a gun.

I don't understand this argument when the more obvious solution is to have trained police officers or security at the school as opposed to allowing teachers to have gun that have no training. Our schools do. My sons school has at least one officer on the grounds through out the entire school day. There's also patrols cars that stop in periodically. Security is good, arming untrained teachers not good.

The next issue here is really mental illness. Mental illness is just not taking seriously in this country and it's almost impossible to get treatment for someone that needs it. If you can get them help it's sketchy at best and God forbid it by the state and unless your rich that's generally the only option you have. We treat stray dogs better.



I live in Oklahoma we probably have more guns here then anywhere in the country. Hell were allowed to just walk around with them in the open. If you go into a store here that doesn't want you carrying a rifle across your shoulder they actually have to post signs on the door asking you not to! And I can tell you I hear more stories here about people getting mad and killing someone with a machete then a gun! It's absurd but true. We have a very rate of machete killing in this state. The highest in the country.