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  1. #361
    GAME ON!!!!! DeTazMan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bigvin73 View Post
    Oh trin I'm sorry that argument is beyond awful. If armed forces invaded and were trained enough to make it fully into this country your guns would me absolutely jack ****. Stop and think for a minute they are good enough to get thru the thousands of troops we have here in this country, resourceful enough to bypass our entire air defense systems motto mention our own planes tanks and the rest, but your handful of guns you have are going to make you safe? C'mon not even you belive that
    "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." is a quote by Isoroku Yamamoto, Commander-in-Chief of the Imperial Japanese Navy during World War II.
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  2. #362
    Momma Mod Trinity1216's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tmonkey View Post
    crossbow - so no i guess since it is really more like a gun

    I really wanted to take my 44 mag for wild boar at some point
    I have seen quite a few different ones, both crossbows and regular (like the American Indian) bow and arrow. They are really nice and would love to own even a basic bow and arrow.


    Originally Posted by bigvin73 View Post
    Oh trin I'm sorry that argument is beyond awful. If armed forces invaded and were trained enough to make it fully into this country your guns would me absolutely jack ****. Stop and think for a minute they are good enough to get thru the thousands of troops we have here in this country, resourceful enough to bypass our entire air defense systems motto mention our own planes tanks and the rest, but your handful of guns you have are going to make you safe? C'mon not even you belive that
    Sorry I still stand by my opinion. Maybe I am guilty of watching to many survivalist shows. But anything is a possibility, and I rather try then just put up my hands and give up
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  3. #363
    Registered User bigvin73's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HairyScandinavian View Post
    It's not about needing an AK-47. Tha'ts just another semi automatic rifle like all the others that nobody cares about. That's like saying, explain to me why that lady who doesn't have kids NEEDS an SUV. She doesn't, but she has the right to own one, and coincidentally SUV's kill more people than guns, so...



    Bow is my preferred weapon and I always pick it up 1st choice if that's an option.



    Brother, hook me up! I just don't know where to start, as an out of stater.
    That car kills more people then guns argument is about the single most useless argument ever used. A guns sole purpose for invention is to kill. Compairing a gun to a car is well sorry kind of a moronic comparison. I don't mean just you I mean In general. Hey do what you want like I said don't like government being intrusive still don't see the need for semi automatic weapons for an average everyday person. Btw you have to go thru training and pass a test to get a license to drive a car, you gun folks good with having to pass gun safety tests to get a license to own a gun? Maybe even tests for different types of guns say hand gun test like a motorcycle test, rifle testing like cars and maybe a more comprehensive semi auto testing say like a CDL, you want to compare I think its fair
    Excuses are like A-holes everyone's got 1...............
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  4. #364
    H = T + V mslman71's Avatar
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    I just drove across town heading back from the hospital (my son is ill, doing much better) and sat down here at home to read and relax for a bit.

    On the drive home I was behind THREE ****ING PEOPLE who were text messaging or doing something with their cell phones on the interstate. Three people in as many miles. Three to five thousand pounds of vehicle moving between 50 and 70 miles an hour and you're worried about whether someone needs an AR/AK and background checks or whatever. How many people, including children do you think have died between the time of this shooting and now because of some fuk'in idiot who can't wait ten minutes to get off the road and carry on a conversation or text or play angry birds or whatever the fuk people do to distract themselves when they are piloting their vehicles.

    The human mind appears to be incapable of rationally identifying and prioritizing risk.
    2 + 2 = 5 (for extremely large values of 2)

    You are not a snowflake. "It is in no way possible, either by mechanical, thermal, chemical, or other devices, to obtain perpetual motion, i.e. it is impossible to construct an engine which will work in a cycle and produce continuous work, or kinetic energy, from nothing."
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  5. #365
    H = T + V mslman71's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bigvin73 View Post
    Oh trin I'm sorry that argument is beyond awful. If armed forces invaded and were trained enough to make it fully into this country your guns would me absolutely jack ****. Stop and think for a minute they are good enough to get thru the thousands of troops we have here in this country, resourceful enough to bypass our entire air defense systems motto mention our own planes tanks and the rest, but your handful of guns you have are going to make you safe? C'mon not even you belive that
    Hm, history suggests otherwise.
    2 + 2 = 5 (for extremely large values of 2)

    You are not a snowflake. "It is in no way possible, either by mechanical, thermal, chemical, or other devices, to obtain perpetual motion, i.e. it is impossible to construct an engine which will work in a cycle and produce continuous work, or kinetic energy, from nothing."
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  6. #366
    Registered User bigvin73's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HairyScandinavian View Post
    Same reason she NEEDS her SUV. It's more fun to drive.
    Not really valid but ill play. She has to go they training and testing and pay insurance to use her SUV. Sinc e you like the gun/car thing so much you willing to agree to testing licensing and insurance to have you fun? Btw don't well all tell our children guns aren't toys? Justsaying
    Excuses are like A-holes everyone's got 1...............
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  7. #367
    Registered User bigvin73's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mslman71 View Post
    Hm, history suggests otherwise.
    Really enlighten me when was the last time the US was invaded by ground forces?
    Excuses are like A-holes everyone's got 1...............
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  8. #368
    H = T + V mslman71's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bigvin73 View Post
    Not really valid but ill play. She has to go they training and testing and pay insurance to use her SUV. Sinc e you like the gun/car thing so much you willing to agree to testing licensing and insurance to have you fun? Btw don't well all tell our children guns aren't toys? Justsaying
    Why do you think testing and licensing would measurably reduce the rate of one off or large scale incidents with "assault rifles?"
    2 + 2 = 5 (for extremely large values of 2)

    You are not a snowflake. "It is in no way possible, either by mechanical, thermal, chemical, or other devices, to obtain perpetual motion, i.e. it is impossible to construct an engine which will work in a cycle and produce continuous work, or kinetic energy, from nothing."
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  9. #369
    achieved bro status discdoggie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mslman71 View Post
    Hm, history suggests otherwise.
    How so exactly?
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  10. #370
    Registered User bigvin73's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mslman71 View Post
    Why do you think testing and licensing would measurably reduce the rate of one off or large scale incidents with "assault rifles?"
    At least with testing and licensing it would make people prove they are proficient enough in safety of gun use to own a gun and prove their responsibility level.

    Not to mention it create accountability
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  11. #371
    H = T + V mslman71's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bigvin73 View Post
    Really enlighten me when was the last time the US was invaded by ground forces?
    I'm not going to do your homework. I suggest you start by looking at the history of the world, not just the US; the history of colonialism is a good place to start. There is a difference between tactical victories and strategic victory and there are no shortage of examples through all of history. We have not become so marvelous and enlightened in the past 50 years as to be able to flush the prior thousands of years of recorded civilization down the toilet.

    I have nothing to sell and am not interested in a gigantic pissing contest. You believe whatever you like for whatever reasons you wish and may express those views through the process of your choosing. I have made my choice, largely viewed from a risk-reward perspective, and am done with it, and I will vote and act according to that. If the powers that be decide it's time to change then there's little more I can do about it.
    2 + 2 = 5 (for extremely large values of 2)

    You are not a snowflake. "It is in no way possible, either by mechanical, thermal, chemical, or other devices, to obtain perpetual motion, i.e. it is impossible to construct an engine which will work in a cycle and produce continuous work, or kinetic energy, from nothing."
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  12. #372
    GAME ON!!!!! DeTazMan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bigvin73 View Post
    That car kills more people then guns argument is about the single most useless argument ever used. A guns sole purpose for invention is to kill. Compairing a gun to a car is well sorry kind of a moronic comparison. I don't mean just you I mean In general. Hey do what you want like I said don't like government being intrusive still don't see the need for semi automatic weapons for an average everyday person. Btw you have to go thru training and pass a test to get a license to drive a car, you gun folks good with having to pass gun safety tests to get a license to own a gun? Maybe even tests for different types of guns say hand gun test like a motorcycle test, rifle testing like cars and maybe a more comprehensive semi auto testing say like a CDL, you want to compare I think its fair
    Being a hunter, I did have to go through a training course to get hunters safety card which covered basic survival, safety, and gun handling.

    Do gun owners make stupid and idiotic decisions or go on killing sprees, yes... Same as drivers who decide to ram their cars into a group of people. are their accidents with firearms? Yes.. and if their is someone in the way, then that person can get hurt or killed.. if a car or other heavy object loses control, the same can happen.. We have been invaded, just look at 9/11, all planes took off from American Soil by combatants that used weapons(box cutters) to confiscate even deadlier weapons (airplanes).
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  13. #373
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    Originally Posted by mslman71 View Post
    I just drove across town heading back from the hospital (my son is ill, doing much better) and sat down here at home to read and relax for a bit.

    On the drive home I was behind THREE ****ING PEOPLE who were text messaging or doing something with their cell phones on the interstate. Three people in as many miles. Three to five thousand pounds of vehicle moving between 50 and 70 miles an hour and you're worried about whether someone needs an AR/AK and background checks or whatever. How many people, including children do you think have died between the time of this shooting and now because of some fuk'in idiot who can't wait ten minutes to get off the road and carry on a conversation or text or play angry birds or whatever the fuk people do to distract themselves when they are piloting their vehicles.

    The human mind appears to be incapable of rationally identifying and prioritizing risk.
    And there is an appropriate laws to deal with this in DC, for example. I wish more states would enable this as well. When there was no cell phones, there was no need for this law. The reality has changed, we as a society changed, and, in this case, law (in DC at least) changed accordingly.
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    Originally Posted by bigvin73 View Post
    Really enlighten me when was the last time the US was invaded by ground forces?
    June 3, 1942. Japanese forces invaded the Aleutian Islands in Alaska. It took almost a year for American forces to get rid of them.
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  15. #375
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    Originally Posted by DeTazMan View Post
    Being a hunter, I did have to go through a training course to get hunters safety card which covered basic survival, safety, and gun handling.

    Do gun owners make stupid and idiotic decisions or go on killing sprees, yes... Same as drivers who decide to ram their cars into a group of people. are their accidents with firearms? Yes.. and if their is someone in the way, then that person can get hurt or killed.. if a car or other heavy object loses control, the same can happen.. We have been invaded, just look at 9/11, all planes took off from American Soil by combatants that used weapons(box cutters) to confiscate even deadlier weapons (airplanes).
    That's not an Invasion its am isolated insident by a terror group having semi automatic assault riffles in your house wouldn't have changed that.

    As to the history argument like I said in a previous responce if the force is good enough to invade and hold our land your semi assault riffles will have the same effect as pissing in the ocean. I'm all for gun rights said it before and less governmental intrusion, I just don't see a valid reason to own automatic weapons. That is outside the few of you honest enough to say for "fun" least that's a truthful reason
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  16. #376
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    Originally Posted by lotusdeva View Post
    And there is an appropriate laws to deal with this in DC, for example. I wish more states would enable this as well. When there was no cell phones, there was no need for this law. The reality has changed, we as a society changed, and, in this case, law (in DC at least) changed accordingly.
    You are confusing laws with constitutional rights. They are not the same thing.
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    Originally Posted by lotusdeva View Post
    And there is an appropriate laws to deal with this in DC, for example. I wish more states would enable this as well. When there was no cell phones, there was no need for this law. The reality has changed, we as a society changed, and, in this case, law (in DC at least) changed accordingly.
    Laws don't deal with it. They only provide a means for punishing those who are caught.
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    Originally Posted by NorwichGrad View Post
    June 3, 1942. Japanese forces invaded the Aleutian Islands in Alaska. It took almost a year for American forces to get rid of them.
    That's not mainland America, its an obscure island in Alaska your reaching there. Btw no one on these boards guns would have meant jack **** in that situation
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    Originally Posted by bigvin73 View Post
    That's not an Invasion its am isolated insident by a terror group having semi automatic assault riffles in your house wouldn't have changed that.

    As to the history argument like I said in a previous responce if the force is good enough to invade and hold our land your semi assault riffles will have the same effect as pissing in the ocean. I'm all for gun rights said it before and less governmental intrusion, I just don't see a valid reason to own automatic weapons. That is outside the few of you honest enough to say for "fun" least that's a truthful reason
    A successful invasion is not the same as a successful occupation. We don't have to go too far back to see that. I doubt this will happen one way or the other but it would be foolish to discount it simply because it's inconvenient or improbable.

    Purposefully automatic weapons are difficult and very expensive to acquire (legally). Most any semi, of the dreaded "assault" type or other, can be made fully automatic, though I don't see full auto as being notably more dangerous.
    2 + 2 = 5 (for extremely large values of 2)

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    Does everybody believe that gun control is so cut and dry as taking all your guns away?

    People should look at the example of Sweden which is an armed country with very little gun violence. If you read up on their laws you would see that they do practice gun control without disarming their citizens.

    Mandatory service in the military, where 1) they are taught to use fire arms
    2) they are intigrated with their fellow countrymen a lot of who speak different languages so they are given insight into cultreral differences which I know would give me a greater respect for my countrymen and their lives.

    There are many other differences between the 2 nations (Sweden and the US) laws when it comes to firearms and in no way do I think it would put an end to shooting sprees but if it would save one life, and one more child could be home for Christmas this year I don't see anything wrong with it.
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    Originally Posted by mslman71 View Post
    A successful invasion is not the same as a successful occupation. We don't have to go too far back to see that. I doubt this will happen one way or the other but it would be foolish to discount it simply because it's inconvenient or improbable.

    Purposefully automatic weapons are difficult and very expensive to acquire (legally). Most any semi, of the dreaded "assault" type or other, can be made fully automatic, though I don't see full auto as being notably more dangerous.
    Kinda miss communication here I think. I'm not discounting it completely my point is if it happened personal guns would be useless, due to the fact it would take one hell of a force to pull it off. This isn't red dawn being wolverines is a Hollywood idea not really practical
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    Originally Posted by erinlee01 View Post
    You are confusing laws with constitutional rights. They are not the same thing.
    I understand the difference between laws and constitutional rights. My point was that we as a society changed significantly from the time Constitution was written and we continue to change. In fact, Constitution was amended several times throughout history to reflect various changes.
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    Originally Posted by bigvin73 View Post
    That's not an Invasion its am isolated insident by a terror group having semi automatic assault riffles in your house wouldn't have changed that.

    As to the history argument like I said in a previous responce if the force is good enough to invade and hold our land your semi assault riffles will have the same effect as pissing in the ocean. I'm all for gun rights said it before and less governmental intrusion, I just don't see a valid reason to own automatic weapons. That is outside the few of you honest enough to say for "fun" least that's a truthful reason
    Enemy combatants on American Soil with the purpose of killing american citizens is not an invasion??

    As for your history lesson, Ask the Soviets what happened when you invade a country with inferior weapons but who are determined enough to hold on to their land to the last breath...
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    Originally Posted by bigvin73 View Post
    That's not mainland America, its an obscure island in Alaska your reaching there. Btw no one on these boards guns would have meant jack **** in that situation
    So you're saying it's okay for the enemy to land in Hawaii, US Virgin Islands, or Puerto Rico, because they are not CONUS?
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    Originally Posted by frozensparky View Post
    Does everybody believe that gun control is so cut and dry as taking all your guns away?

    People should look at the example of Sweden which is an armed country with very little gun violence. If you read up on their laws you would see that they do practice gun control without disarming their citizens.

    Mandatory service in the military, where 1) they are taught to use fire arms
    2) they are intigrated with their fellow countrymen a lot of who speak different languages so they are given insight into cultreral differences which I know would give me a greater respect for my countrymen and their lives.

    There are many other differences between the 2 nations (Sweden and the US) laws when it comes to firearms and in no way do I think it would put an end to shooting sprees but if it would save one life, and one more child could be home for Christmas this year I don't see anything wrong with it.
    ^^^^ this.
    Before someone questions your patriotism or tells you move to Sweden. It's an extreamly valid point
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    Originally Posted by lotusdeva View Post
    I understand the difference between laws and constitutional rights. My point was that we as a society changed significantly from the time Constitution was written and we continue to change. In fact, Constitution was amended several times throughout history to reflect various changes.
    Since society has changes so much, why don't we just throw out the whole constitution? 11,000 attempts have been made to amend the constitution. Only 17 times has it been amended. Doesn't that tell you something?
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    Originally Posted by bigvin73 View Post
    Kinda miss communication here I think. I'm not discounting it completely my point is if it happened personal guns would be useless, due to the fact it would take one hell of a force to pull it off. This isn't red dawn being wolverines is a Hollywood idea not really practical
    The thing with occupations is that time is always on the side of the occupied. Where else do they have to go?

    I would like to think that we aren't much different than any other culture and would do our best to protect ourselves if it ever came to it. I do not fall back on the idea that each and every one of us would simply sit in the corner in a pool of our own piss at the first sound of thunder. What would I do? I have no idea and would rather never find out. What would most do? I don't know that either. But, I don't think so little of us to think that we would all simply go tits up if a fully functional and integrated federal military were compromised in some way.
    2 + 2 = 5 (for extremely large values of 2)

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    Originally Posted by NorwichGrad View Post
    So you're saying it's okay for the enemy to land in Hawaii, US Virgin Islands, or Puerto Rico, because they are not CONUS?
    Nope but your not talking about invading and holding America as it would apply to this argument. Your also talking about something that happened in the middle of a world war. Does it apply to current times or likelihood? Absolutely not, we were fighting a multi front war all over the world getting back a lowly populated obscure island or defending it for that matter probably wasn't high on the priority list.

    Kinda splitting hairs on this one.
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    Originally Posted by bigvin73 View Post
    Props at least your honest about why you have yours. Most say they need it for home defense.

    I grew up on navy bases and learned to shoot with fast company I agree fun to shoot fully auto weapons, just don't see the NEED to own them or have them sellable to general public. Almost any moron can go to a gun show and buy one that's recluse to say te least
    My AR is not auto. That takes a special licence to own of those. Mine is just a run of the mill Smith and Wessson Ar15 5.56. One trigger pull one round.
    I do NOT see the need for a citizen to a fully auto weapon.
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    Originally Posted by frozensparky View Post
    Does everybody believe that gun control is so cut and dry as taking all your guns away?

    People should look at the example of Sweden which is an armed country with very little gun violence. If you read up on their laws you would see that they do practice gun control without disarming their citizens.

    Mandatory service in the military, where 1) they are taught to use fire arms
    2) they are intigrated with their fellow countrymen a lot of who speak different languages so they are given insight into cultreral differences which I know would give me a greater respect for my countrymen and their lives.

    There are many other differences between the 2 nations (Sweden and the US) laws when it comes to firearms and in no way do I think it would put an end to shooting sprees but if it would save one life, and one more child could be home for Christmas this year I don't see anything wrong with it.
    I think you are confusing Sweden with Switzerland, but your point is well made.
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