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  1. #991
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    Originally Posted by lotusdeva View Post
    You should read more carefully. Right to bear arms was necessary at the time when the government could not protect its own people. I feel that the times have changed and we do not need to bear assault weapons to protect us from the government.
    Originally Posted by lotusdeva View Post
    I logged in recently to upload my progress pictures and noticed negs with shut up, etc comments for voicing my opinion in this thread. I do have an opinion as a mother, tax paying citizen, as a human being (which is obviously very different from majority here). It amazed me that men in their 50's took time to push a red button and leave disrespectful comments. Level of intelligence is just epic here.

    P.S. also, I am assuming that most freedom fighters in this thread were on the streets protesting when the Patriot Act was passed. You know, the one that took away some serious liberties per 2 nd Amendment.
    While I am certain you are smarter than me (and I never negged you), the above post illustrates a significant lack of understanding about why we have the 2nd amendment in the first place. It is there to protect us FROM the government, first and foremost. There is no law which can be constructed which would eliminate the need to have arms, as long as we have government. Our founders knew this going in, and it is still true today.

    Do you feel unsafe because of guns? (srs question).


    "... By calling attention to a well-regulated militia for the security of the Nation, and the right of each citizen to keep and bear arms, our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy. Although it is extremely unlikely that the fear of governmental tyranny, which gave rise to the 2nd amendment, will ever be a major danger to our Nation, the amendment still remains an important declaration of our basic military-civilian relationship, in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason I believe the 2nd Amendment will always be important."

    --JFK
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  2. #992
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    Originally Posted by lotusdeva View Post
    I logged in recently to upload my progress pictures and noticed negs with shut up, etc comments for voicing my opinion in this thread. I do have an opinion as a mother, tax paying citizen, as a human being (which is obviously very different from majority here). It amazed me that men in their 50's took time to push a red button and leave disrespectful comments. Level of intelligence is just epic here.

    P.S. also, I am assuming that most freedom fighters in this thread were on the streets protesting when the Patriot Act was passed. You know, the one that took away some serious liberties per 2 nd Amendment.
    I may have negged you, don't recall however. If I did and you took offense let me say this, get over it buttercup.
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  3. #993
    Registered User lotusdeva's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Brackneyc View Post
    While I am certain you are smarter than me (and I never negged you), the above post illustrates a significant lack of understanding about why we have the 2nd amendment in the first place. It is there to protect us FROM the government, first and foremost. There is no law which can be constructed which would eliminate the need to have arms, as long as we have government. Our founders knew this going in, and it is still true today.

    Do you feel unsafe because of guns? (srs question).


    "... By calling attention to a well-regulated militia for the security of the Nation, and the right of each citizen to keep and bear arms, our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy. Although it is extremely unlikely that the fear of governmental tyranny, which gave rise to the 2nd amendment, will ever be a major danger to our Nation, the amendment still remains an important declaration of our basic military-civilian relationship, in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason I believe the 2nd Amendment will always be important."
    --JFK
    I am not advocating taking away every single gun from every single gun owner in this country. Assault weapons, anything capable of taking away so many lives in minutes - I have a problem with that. Most importantly though - justifying ownership of any weapon by implying that one is protecting their Freedom is naive, to say the least. So how about Patriot Act ? Which one of you fine citizens took it time to the streets? IMXO - the reason for all this commotion is that it is YOUR gun we are talking about, It's YOU who will lose something. Sometimes, we as human beings have to put our I on the side and sacrifice for the good of the society. Philosophers won't be Kings here, ah? Nop.

    P.s. I am not afraid , you know, if you are meant to hang yourself, you won't drown
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  4. #994
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    Originally Posted by lotusdeva View Post
    I am not advocating taking away every single gun from every single gun owner in this country. Assault weapons, anything capable of taking away so many lives in minutes - I have a problem with that. Most importantly though - justifying ownership of any weapon by implying that one is protecting their Freedom is naive, to say the least. So how about Patriot Act ? Which one of you fine citizens took it time to the streets? IMXO - the reason for all this commotion is that it is YOUR gun we are talking about, It's YOU who will lose something. Sometimes, we as human beings have to put our I on the side and sacrifice for the good of the society. Philosophers won't be Kings here, ah? Nop.

    P.s. I am not afraid , you know, if you are meant to hang yourself, you won't drown
    So the founders were naive, huh?
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    Originally Posted by lotusdeva View Post
    P.S. also, I am assuming that most freedom fighters in this thread were on the streets protesting when the Patriot Act was passed. You know, the one that took away some serious liberties per 2 nd Amendment.
    Goddamned right I was and still do and my position here on the subject is well known. My Representative and Senators are well aware and regularly reminded of my feelings on this matter. The only gratifying thing to come out of it is that the most vocal freedom fighters and advocates of individual liberties from the left a mere half decade ago are now perfectly mum on the subject. Hypocrites to the left of me, hypocrites to the right, same coin, different side.

    As for who negged you? I have no idea, wasn't me, wasn't worth the effort.

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  6. #996
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    Originally Posted by Brackneyc View Post
    So the founders were naive, huh?
    No, you are.
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  7. #997
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    Originally Posted by lotusdeva View Post
    I am not advocating taking away every single gun from every single gun owner in this country. Assault weapons, anything capable of taking away so many lives in minutes - I have a problem with that.
    You mean like a knife, right?

    You are aware that the press lied about the weapon used in the assault on Sandy Hook? Lanza didn't use a long arm, much less an "assault weapon". Perhaps you can inform us what an unassault weapon is, just so we're on the same page.
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  8. #998
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    Originally Posted by lotusdeva View Post
    I am not advocating taking away every single gun from every single gun owner in this country. Assault weapons, anything capable of taking away so many lives in minutes - I have a problem with that. Most importantly though - justifying ownership of any weapon by implying that one is protecting their Freedom is naive, to say the least. So how about Patriot Act ? Which one of you fine citizens took it time to the streets? IMXO - the reason for all this commotion is that it is YOUR gun we are talking about, It's YOU who will lose something. Sometimes, we as human beings have to put our I on the side and sacrifice for the good of the society. Philosophers won't be Kings here, ah? Nop.

    P.s. I am not afraid , you know, if you are meant to hang yourself, you won't drown
    Implying? No. I justify owning guns because that's my clearly defined Constitutional right . . . which by definition means I am exercising my freedoms (and thus also protecting them).

    As for your notion about "sacrificing for the good of society" . . . I'll take a pass on that as the standard for allowing the govt to start chipping away at the Constitution. That's one of the last things some countries' citizens heard from their governments, right before they stomped on them and robbed them of what few rights they had. History is rife with that lesson. But we're the naive ones, right? Might want to read up a bit on where that line of reasoning was used--you don't have to go back very far.

    Also, with regard to the Patriot Act, I think you'll find that gun owners are/were among the most vocal critics of it . . . so I'm not sure what that whole canard is about. But since you are the one trumpeting about govt acting under the banner of the common good, I would think you would be all for the Patriot Act. Or are you in favor of the govt keeping its collective nose out of our/your business--as long as it doesn't involve scary guns?
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  9. #999
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    Originally Posted by mslman71 View Post
    Goddamned right I was and still do and my position here on the subject is well known. My Representative and Senators are well aware and regularly reminded of my feelings on this matter. The only gratifying thing to come out of it is that the most vocal freedom fighters and advocates of individual liberties from the left a mere half decade ago are now perfectly mum on the subject. Hypocrites to the left of me, hypocrites to the right, same coin, different side.

    As for who negged you? I have no idea, wasn't me, wasn't worth the effort.

    “Euclid taught me that without assumptions there is no proof. Therefore, in any argument, examine the assumptions.” E. Bell
    Well, it is nice to know that you put action into your thoughts. Most people don't.
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  10. #1000
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    Originally Posted by Brackneyc View Post
    So the founders were naive, huh?
    Originally Posted by lotusdeva View Post
    No, you are.
    And you wonder why you got negged? Might want to pull that stick outta your ass.
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    Originally Posted by lotusdeva View Post
    Well, it is nice to know that you put action into your thoughts. Most people don't.
    I don't know what most people do. There are a lot of people out there. Assuming anything is risky.
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    Originally Posted by Marius_Ursus View Post
    You mean like a knife, right?

    You are aware that the press lied about the weapon used in the assault on Sandy Hook? Lanza didn't use a long arm, much less an "assault weapon". Perhaps you can inform us what an unassault weapon is, just so we're on the same page.
    Exactly. The official report states that the rifle was actually still in the trunk of his car, and all the shooting was done with handguns.
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    Originally Posted by Kraken View Post
    Exactly. The official report states that the rifle was actually still in the trunk of his car, and all the shooting was done with handguns.
    I never did track this down, because frankly it doesn't matter, but I recall at first they said the 223 was left in the car and he used the pistols, then they said the coroner's report identified the wounds as being from the 223. Did this change again?
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    Originally Posted by Kraken View Post
    Exactly. The official report states that the rifle was actually still in the trunk of his car, and all the shooting was done with handguns.
    Which is the same damn thing I have read in numerous reports, are they all wrong or is the media and government in on this to create hysteria and get their precious ban enacted?
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    Originally Posted by Marius_Ursus View Post
    You mean like a knife, right?

    You are aware that the press lied about the weapon used in the assault on Sandy Hook? Lanza didn't use a long arm, much less an "assault weapon". Perhaps you can inform us what an unassault weapon is, just so we're on the same page.
    Oh, press lied about Columbine Also?
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    Originally Posted by mslman71 View Post
    I never did track this down, because frankly it doesn't matter, but I recall at first they said the 223 was left in the car and he used the pistols, then they said the coroner's report identified the wounds as being from the 223. Did this change again?
    My wife told me that the police had made a statement that the .223 was found in the trunk of his car. It's awfully fishy that PD on scene find the rifle in the trunk, but the media and other sources say that people had been wounded by a .223. More irresponsibility by the media and the government, as usual.

    Watch this video. It's not just conspiracy stuff, they show reports and their inaccuracies, but notice, he states, the AR 15 was left in the car.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju_NllT1iDo
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    All the stories I can find report the ME stating that the wounds were inflicted by a rifle; rounds and empty magazines recovered on site. Speculation is that it was a shotgun in the car (?)
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    Originally Posted by lotusdeva View Post
    I am not advocating taking away every single gun from every single gun owner in this country. Assault weapons, anything capable of taking away so many lives in minutes - I have a problem with that. Most importantly though - justifying ownership of any weapon by implying that one is protecting their Freedom is naive, to say the least. So how about Patriot Act ? Which one of you fine citizens took it time to the streets? IMXO - the reason for all this commotion is that it is YOUR gun we are talking about, It's YOU who will lose something. Sometimes, we as human beings have to put our I on the side and sacrifice for the good of the society. Philosophers won't be Kings here, ah? Nop.

    P.s. I am not afraid , you know, if you are meant to hang yourself, you won't drown
    So how do feel about limiting our 1st ammendement rights, since they do not always print or report the facts?
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  19. #1009
    Chasing the dragon JRT6's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lotusdeva View Post
    I am not advocating taking away every single gun from every single gun owner in this country. Assault weapons, anything capable of taking away so many lives in minutes - I have a problem with that. Most importantly though - justifying ownership of any weapon by implying that one is protecting their Freedom is naive, to say the least. So how about Patriot Act ? Which one of you fine citizens took it time to the streets? IMXO - the reason for all this commotion is that it is YOUR gun we are talking about, It's YOU who will lose something. Sometimes, we as human beings have to put our I on the side and sacrifice for the good of the society. Philosophers won't be Kings here, ah? Nop.

    P.s. I am not afraid , you know, if you are meant to hang yourself, you won't drown

    Can someone translate this?
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  20. #1010
    sudo apt-get beer SP1966's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JRT6 View Post
    Can someone translate this?
    Just another fool who chooses to ignore all of the recorded history of man and proclaim that having a well armed public is no longer a deterrent to a tyrannical government.

    Or to be blunt, another pathetic individual who is willing to ceed her own protection to a government.

    We could clearly add that she is also another hopeless optimist who thinks that removing a tiny portion of weapons from a society will result in a safer society.

    We could boil it all down to one word that was used often around here for a time: Fuktard.
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  21. #1011
    H = T + V mslman71's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lotusdeva View Post
    ...Sometimes, we as human beings have to put our I on the side and sacrifice for the good of the society. Philosophers won't be Kings here, ah? Nop.
    I will not willingly sacrifice anything as an individual for nothing more than the promise, or more appropriately, the best guess at legislation that might have a statistically measurable positive outcome for society if everything works out just right.
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  22. #1012
    Registered User erinlee01's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lotusdeva View Post
    I logged in recently to upload my progress pictures and noticed negs with shut up, etc comments for voicing my opinion in this thread. I do have an opinion as a mother, tax paying citizen, as a human being (which is obviously very different from majority here). It amazed me that men in their 50's took time to push a red button and leave disrespectful comments. Level of intelligence is just epic here.

    P.S. also, I am assuming that most freedom fighters in this thread were on the streets protesting when the Patriot Act was passed. You know, the one that took away some serious liberties per 2 nd Amendment.
    And yet a 37 year woman took time to make a post to whine about negs on an internet forum.

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    "A recent evaluation of the short-term effects of the 1994 federal assault weapons ban did not reveal any clear impacts on gun violence outcomes (Koper and Roth, 2001b). Using state-level Uniform Crime Reports data on gun homicides, the authors of this study suggest that the potential impact of the law on gun violence was limited by the continuing availability of assault weapons through the ban’s grandfathering provision and the relative rarity with which the banned guns were used in crime before the ban. Indeed, as the authors concede and other critics suggest (e.g., Kleck, 2001), given the nature of the intervention, the maximum potential effect of the ban on gun violence outcomes would be very small and, if there were any observable effects, very difficult to disentangle from chance yearly variation and other state and local gun violence initiatives that took place simultaneously. In a subsequent paper on the effects of the assault weapons ban on gun markets, Koper and Roth (2001a) found that, in the short term, the prices of assault weapons in both primary and legal secondary markets rose substantially at the time of the ban, and this may have reduced the availability of the assault weapons to criminals. However, this increase in price was short-lived as a surge in assault weapon production in the months prior to the ban and the availability of legal substitutes caused prices to fall back to nearly preban levels. The ban is also weakened by the ease with which legally available guns and magazines can be altered to evade the intent of the ban. The results of these two studies should be interpreted with caution, since any trends observed in the relatively short study time period (24-month follow-up period) are unlikely to predict long-term trends accurately."

    Charles F. Wellford, John V. Pepper, and Carol V. Petrie, "Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review," National Academy of Science, NAP 2004, 2005. pp. 96-97.


    The best Feinstein can do is state that since we can't say crime was reduced we can't say it wasn't reduced (go figure) and that the increasing cost of the weapons due to the ban likely had and would have had more impact if extended. Seriously, this is the best that the next bill's sponsor can do? Really, what difference does it make though? She is selling this to her choir who will believe anything so long as it is in line with what they want to hear, perhaps emphasizing that adding some sort of federal fingerprinting and registration system will somehow give it that little extra kick it needs to be measurably effective. How do these people have enough sense to remember to breath?
    Last edited by mslman71; 01-02-2013 at 08:05 PM.
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  24. #1014
    Finally accused of juicin Corbi's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by erinlee01 View Post
    And yet a 37 year woman took time to make a post to whine about negs on an internet forum.

    Too funny.
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  25. #1015
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    Originally Posted by Corbi View Post
    Internets is serious business.
    Apparently!
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    The initial reports stated that he used two handguns and the AR-15 was found in the trunk of the car, but the media jumped on the opportunity to state that the big scary assualt rifle was the weapon used. I tend to ignore most anything reported by the leftwing media outlets anymore. And if we should ban any weapons because they are dangerous, we need to take a look at the first amendment as well, lots of idiots should be banned from voicing their opinions, in my opinion
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    Originally Posted by lotusdeva View Post
    Oh, press lied about Columbine Also?
    That's not what I asked.
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  28. #1018
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    Originally Posted by erinlee01 View Post
    And yet a 37 year woman took time to make a post to whine about negs on an internet forum.

    Too funny.
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  29. #1019
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    Originally Posted by taf1968 View Post
    Implying? No. I justify owning guns because that's my clearly defined Constitutional right . . . which by definition means I am exercising my freedoms (and thus also protecting them).

    As for your notion about "sacrificing for the good of society" . . . I'll take a pass on that as the standard for allowing the govt to start chipping away at the Constitution. That's one of the last things some countries' citizens heard from their governments, right before they stomped on them and robbed them of what few rights they had. History is rife with that lesson. But we're the naive ones, right? Might want to read up a bit on where that line of reasoning was used--you don't have to go back very far.

    Also, with regard to the Patriot Act, I think you'll find that gun owners are/were among the most vocal critics of it . . . so I'm not sure what that whole canard is about. But since you are the one trumpeting about govt acting under the banner of the common good, I would think you would be all for the Patriot Act. Or are you in favor of the govt keeping its collective nose out of our/your business--as long as it doesn't involve scary guns?
    Clearly defined 200 years ago for the purposes to arm militia in case British decide to attack. We, as a society clearly changed, where we don't need to be armed with military style weapons. Government is more then capable, we have the best military/technology in the world. Paranoid much?
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  30. #1020
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    Originally Posted by lotusdeva View Post
    Clearly defined 200 years ago for the purposes to arm militia in case British attacked.
    The Federalist Papers.



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