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  1. #931
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    Originally Posted by Kraken View Post
    The government enables this though. Did you know that when you figure out the dollar per hour of a person on full welfare, it comes out to $30 per hour or more!? The people on welfare would most likely never see anything over $15, so there is absolutely no incentive to come off. The only way to get people to get off of welfare is to make poverty uncomfortable, but we managed to make it a luxurious event.
    I figure you're probably deliberately exaggerating a little bit but poverty isn't luxurious. However it's now a reasonable balance between the activation barrier of going out and slinging burgers for minimum wage versus not having much but enough to get by and not having to do anything for it. It isn't the good life. It isn't glamorous. But, if you don't have many options, the self respect to do for yourself either because of your own personality or because of the one that evolved due to your environment, or are just a lazy POS then it's a reasonable way to sustain existence indefinitely. Personally it would be a death sentence for me. I can't imagine having either no motivation to get out or so little of a clue to know that there are ways out.

    I don't oppose the safety net exactly. It doesn't cost me much. I'd rather he be handled state by state but it is what it is. I don't like it being an agreeable end-point for anyone. I sure as sh*t don't like getting in line at the convenience store and seeing someone buy his snacks with the federal debit card and his lottery tickets and beer with cash.
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  2. #932
    Texas Crew Kraken's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mslman71 View Post
    I figure you're probably deliberately exaggerating a little bit but poverty isn't luxurious. However it's now a reasonable balance between the activation barrier of going out and slinging burgers for minimum wage versus not having much but enough to get by and not having to do anything for it. It isn't the good life. It isn't glamorous. But, if you don't have many options, the self respect to do for yourself either because of your own personality or because of the one that evolved due to your environment, or are just a lazy POS then it's a reasonable way to sustain existence indefinitely. Personally it would be a death sentence for me. I can't imagine having either no motivation to get out or so little of a clue to know that there are ways out.

    I don't oppose the safety net exactly. It doesn't cost me much. I'd rather he be handled state by state but it is what it is. I don't like it being an agreeable end-point for anyone. I sure as sh*t don't like getting in line at the convenience store and seeing someone buy his snacks with the federal debit card and his lottery tickets and beer with cash.
    Well, I was exaggerating a bit when I used the word "luxurious", but, I can tell you, that for several years I was living alone, making $10-12 per hour, and I was getting by. The thought of making an equivalent of $30 would have certainly made me feel like I was living the good life. It's all relative. Many of my friends who are paramedics, EMTs, and some firefighters, would LOVE to make that much money. I made just shy of $17 as a medic and I had a college degree.
    "When the government fears the people, there is liberty; when the people fear the government, there is tyranny." -Thomas Jefferson

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  3. #933
    sudo apt-get beer SP1966's Avatar
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    I keep waiting to hear that the Mayor is shutting down the NY Subway system. Waiting on the train can be hazardous to your health...
    "However widespread the desire to be free, it is wholly different from a desire to live in a society where others are free."

    - Thomas Sowell
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  4. #934
    Moderately neato GREENFEATHER's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Corbi View Post
    That's my one wish before I die is to get to fire a mini gun, never going to happen but I can still wish for it.
    You can shoot one at either the Knob Creek MG shoot or the North Country shoot. It's not cheap though.

    Originally Posted by Thywillbedone View Post
    Not British but anyway. Lots of well made points but it is hard for an outsider to understand the apparently honestly held belief of some Americans that they need to bear arms as there is a risk of (a) foreign invasion, or (b) the government turning against the people. It's just ludicrous! If not, can someone point to risk warning signs?
    History has shown that unarmed peoples of the world are easy targets for extermination, WW1 and W2 showed it recently.
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  5. #935
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    Originally Posted by GREENFEATHER View Post
    History has shown that unarmed peoples of the world are easy targets for extermination, WW1 and W2 showed it recently.
    But...but...but...this isn't back then! Even though history continues to repeat itself, to the chagrin of the ignorant, and even though tyrannical governments have never been banished forever and even grow in number......this could never, ever happen to us U.S. citizens. After all, we have a different species of human beings here that watch over us and protect us!

    [end sarcasm]

    I don't own a gun and don't feel the need to (at this point in time), but I damn well defend the right of others to.

    Generations - they think "old stuff" can't happen to them. Get off that new android tablet and smart phone and realize that you could be moments away from being in a fetal position.......................dumb $hits.
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  6. #936
    Banned dbx's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SP1966 View Post
    I keep waiting to hear that the Mayor is shutting down the NY Subway system. Waiting on the train can be hazardous to your health...
    No doubt that a sip of soda with a dash of salt right will force him to make such a decision.
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  7. #937
    Finally accused of juicin Corbi's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GREENFEATHER View Post
    You can shoot one at either the Knob Creek MG shoot or the North Country shoot. It's not cheap though.



    History has shown that unarmed peoples of the world are easy targets for extermination, WW1 and W2 showed it recently.
    I'm going to have to look those places up and see how $$$$$$$$$$$ it is.

    And regarding WW2, exactly. Think how different everything may have turned out if the jews had simply had the firepower to back them up?
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  8. #938
    H = T + V mslman71's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dbx View Post
    But...but...but...this isn't back then! Even though history continues to repeat itself, to the chagrin of the ignorant, and even though tyrannical governments have never been banished forever and even grow in number......this could never, ever happen to us U.S. citizens. After all, we have a different species of human beings here that watch over us and protect us!

    [end sarcasm]

    I don't own a gun and don't feel the need to (at this point in time), but I damn well defend the right of others to.

    Generations - they think "old stuff" can't happen to them. Get off that new android tablet and smart phone and realize that you could be moments away from being in a fetal position.......................dumb $hits.

    x2.

    These people should go back and read some commentary from the various periods, especially in the post industrial revolution to WWI range, and see how many people were sure they had figured out all there was to figure out and how society had advanced past all of those primitive ills that had plagued it in the past. 65 years is a blink of an eye in human history and while we've changed we're still the same animals we always have been.
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  9. #939
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    Originally Posted by Corbi View Post
    And regarding WW2, exactly. Think how different everything may have turned out if the jews had simply had the firepower to back them up?
    That's probably stretching it a bit...as we're talking ethnicity at this ^ point, not specific citizenry. And many forget how many Jews were killed in Russia and elsewhere, not just Germany. Every country has their own laws, and I respect that...depending, lol. But this is a U.S. based conversation and we should probably keep it as such.
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  10. #940
    sudo apt-get beer SP1966's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dbx View Post
    But...but...but...this isn't back then! Even though history continues to repeat itself, to the chagrin of the ignorant, and even though tyrannical governments have never been banished forever and even grow in number......this could never, ever happen to us U.S. citizens. After all, we have a different species of human beings here that watch over us and protect us!

    [end sarcasm]

    I don't own a gun and don't feel the need to (at this point in time), but I damn well defend the right of others to.

    Generations - they think "old stuff" can't happen to them. Get off that new android tablet and smart phone and realize that you could be moments away from being in a fetal position.......................dumb $hits.
    But the fifty or so percent of enlightened American's would disagree. Idiots.
    "However widespread the desire to be free, it is wholly different from a desire to live in a society where others are free."

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  11. #941
    Snatch the peebble.... Brackneyc's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dbx View Post
    But...but...but...this isn't back then! Even though history continues to repeat itself, to the chagrin of the ignorant, and even though tyrannical governments have never been banished forever and even grow in number......this could never, ever happen to us U.S. citizens. After all, we have a different species of human beings here that watch over us and protect us!

    [end sarcasm]

    I don't own a gun and don't feel the need to (at this point in time), but I damn well defend the right of others to.

    Generations - they think "old stuff" can't happen to them. Get off that new android tablet and smart phone and realize that you could be moments away from being in a fetal position.......................dumb $hits.
    How exactly will you defend the rights of others, if the one and only potential means to do so...is not in your hands at the time? No way in hell a decent argument is going to disarm the armed. Smiley....but 100% serious.
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  12. #942
    sudo apt-get beer SP1966's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Brackneyc View Post
    How exactly will you defend the rights of others, if the one and only potential means to do so...is not in your hands at the time? No way in hell a decent argument is going to disarm the armed. Smiley....but 100% serious.
    You mean to say when the Democrats try to take over they will be packing heat? Say it ain't so....
    "However widespread the desire to be free, it is wholly different from a desire to live in a society where others are free."

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  13. #943
    Crazy Ass Texan so-tex's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Brackneyc View Post
    How exactly will you defend the rights of others, if the one and only potential means to do so...is not in your hands at the time? No way in hell a decent argument is going to disarm the armed. Smiley....but 100% serious.


    Originally Posted by SP1966 View Post
    You mean to say when the Democrats try to take over they will be packing heat? Say it ain't so....
    I agree, not everybody needs to own, if they choose not to do so.
    I like to ride my horses and shoot my guns.
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    I thought my Puerto Rican brother was on just a one week ban! He's a crazy mother, for sure, but he's missed on the boards here!

    Just food for thought:

    What we face in our nation today is more like a cancer than a virus. Our society has turned on itself, and these mass murders are the shocking fruit. The perpetrators of these crimes now typically turn their weapons on themselves and have essentially become societal suicide bombers. As the military knows, there is no real defense against a suicide bomber who has reached such a point of desperation and delusion that his own life doesn't matter.

    Responding to this specific crisis with legislation would be a mistake that politicans will likely make.

    Responding to the root cause of the crisis would be a better way to go. And what is that root cause? The destruction of the family.

    I'm not discounting any other factors, but to address problems with our mental health institutions or virtual reality gaming or the drugging of our children or our gun laws or the media culture's glorification of such violence and not deal with the root cause of our societal decay are vain attepts to mask symptoms.

    The statistics back me up on the destruction of the family being at the center of our national crises, including violence.

    Before I cite the statistics, please do not take these numbers as a condemnation of single moms or dads. There is no condemnation. Many single parents are doing double duty and raising wonderful children.

    But the numbers are hard to overlook.

    OUR FAMILY CRISIS

    Consider what our family brokeness has done to society:

    3 in 10 children grow up in broken homes.

    In the African American community, it's far worse; two-thirds of black children grow up with one parent.

    More than half of all babies are conceived out of wedlock.

    Children from broken homes account for:

    63% of teen suicides.
    71% of teen pregnancies.
    90% of homeless and runaways.
    71% of highschool dropouts.
    75% 0f all drug users.
    85% of behavioral disorders.
    70% 0f those in juvenile detention.
    57% of all prison inmates.

    These stats come from grassfire.com

    I don't doubt them. I don't think it's 'rocket science.' It never has been! Moms and Dads. Just Moms and Dads. Am I stupid? So out of touch with reality?

    Edit: This whole post, other than the last several sentences, is from grassfire.com (Just wanted to clarify)
    Last edited by paolo59; 12-30-2012 at 09:18 AM.
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    Consider what our family brokeness has done to society

    ^^^^^ Root Cause exposed ^^^^^


    Very profound conclusion. I tend to agree.
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    Originally Posted by so-tex View Post


    I agree, not everybody needs to own, if they choose not to do so.
    I agree. If a person is afraid to participate in their own safety....it is better to let someone else do it for them.
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    Originally Posted by Brackneyc View Post
    How exactly will you defend the rights of others, if the one and only potential means to do so...is not in your hands at the time? No way in hell a decent argument is going to disarm the armed. Smiley....but 100% serious.
    Originally Posted by Brackneyc View Post
    I agree. If a person is afraid to participate in their own safety....it is better to let someone else do it for them.
    LOL, this ^ is really out of left field, as it apparently assumes that we're already in a situation where our citizenry is at war with the govt., and that I'm going to stand by and let others do my fighting

    My remarks were meant to imply a few things, all precluding an actual need to go buy firearms; that the pen is mightier than the sword (you know, like a vote can be more powerful than a weapon? ), that I've never felt the need or fear to have to own one based on the area(s) I've lived in. I grew up using guns (my father was an avid hunter) and enjoy shooting (targets), but I drifted away from that many years ago. I know how to use both, rifle and handguns and used to be a pretty accurate shooter. I just don't feel a need to have a gun these days. Btw, do you recall that I was burglarized several months back? Well, yeah, if I'd had a gun....it would have been stolen, as guns are one of the most sought after prize by most burglars, who almost always prey on empty homes, not occupied ones. But not to go too far off course here...........

    Do you have a better understanding of my earlier remarks, now?
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    Originally Posted by Brackneyc View Post
    I agree. If a person is afraid to participate in their own safety....it is better to let someone else do it for them.
    You can't force gun ownership on a person. If they choose not to own one, it is their business. I am an avid hunter and sportsman myself. I own over 40 guns, and yes, I do have several for home defense.
    I like to ride my horses and shoot my guns.
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    Originally Posted by dbx View Post
    LOL, this ^ is really out of left field, as it apparently assumes that we're already in a situation where our citizenry is at war with the govt., and that I'm going to stand by and let others do my fighting

    My remarks were meant to imply a few things, all precluding an actual need to go buy firearms; that the pen is mightier than the sword (you know, like a vote can be more powerful than a weapon? ), that I've never felt the need or fear to have to own one based on the area(s) I've lived in. I grew up using guns (my father was an avid hunter) and enjoy shooting (targets), but I drifted away from that many years ago. I know how to use both, rifle and handguns and used to be a pretty accurate shooter. I just don't feel a need to have a gun these days. Btw, do you recall that I was burglarized several months back? Well, yeah, if I'd had a gun....it would have been stolen, as guns are one of the most sought after prize by most burglars, who almost always prey on empty homes, not occupied ones. But not to go too far off course here...........

    Do you have a better understanding of my earlier remarks, now?
    I understand completely (I really do). Gun ownership (per my understanding) was born not of the idea of protecting yourself from your neighbor, but rather from your government. The idea that you never felt the need to own one based on your feeling "safe" in your neighborhood is great, but the issue (again, per my limited and perhaps misunderstanding of the right itself) is far larger than protecting yourself from a would-be robber.

    I doubt we will ever be taken over by our own government, and the fail safe that makes me feel that way is the fact that we have more guns than people in this country.
    Last edited by Brackneyc; 12-30-2012 at 10:05 AM.
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    Originally Posted by so-tex View Post
    You can't force gun ownership on a person. If they choose not to own one, it is their business. I am an avid hunter and sportsman myself. I own over 40 guns, and yes, I do have several for home defense.
    I am not suggesting that we do that. I am however suggesting that guns may well end up being illegal to own one day, even in Texas. What is to stop that from happening? Guys with guns, or guys with a strongly worded letter and some protest signs?
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    Originally Posted by Brackneyc View Post
    I am not suggesting that we do that. I am however suggesting that guns may well end up being illegal to own one day, even in Texas. What is to stop that from happening? Guys with guns, or guys with a strongly worded letter and some protest signs?
    I think that we are on the same page here. I simply stated that a person has the right to choose gun ownership. There are people out there like DBX, who chooses not to own, but defends our 2nd ammendment right.
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    Originally Posted by Brackneyc View Post
    I understand completely (I really do). Gun ownership (per my understanding) was born not of the idea of protecting yourself from your neighbor, but rather from your government.
    It was borne (from my understanding) from of a concept that we have the right to protect our own person and property....which of course, includes the mention of govt., above.

    And I think I understand your sentiments, so perhaps I should include this; my father has already offered to me, several of his firearms. I have insisted that he pass most of them on to his grandchildren (which he already has). However, there are a select few that I've called dibs on . IOW, I have no worries that I won't be able to gain access to firearms whenever I feel the need. And of course, as he's 80yrs old now, I am probably a short time away from receiving the aforementioned. I'm just not in a hurry, kwim? .
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    Originally Posted by so-tex View Post
    I think that we are on the same page here. I simply stated that a person has the right to choose gun ownership. There are people out there like DBX, who chooses not to own, but defends our 2nd ammendment right.

    For now.

    I live in the only state (of 50) where I cannot legally carry a gun, concealed or otherwise.

    There are two ways to support the 2nd amendment. You either buy/keep a gun, or you actively get involved when the right comes under pressure.

    Why is it "all but" illegal to smoke now? IMO, it was the lack of support from those who did "not" smoke. Smokers (like gun owners will be) were on their own to save their habit, and they got crushed. Even the tobacco producers were powerless to stop legislation. I understand that guns and smoking are two different things. The feeling towards them (by non-users) however is not that much different.

    Non-gun owners are not going to rally to save the 2nd amendment.
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    Originally Posted by dbx View Post
    It was borne (from my understanding) from of a concept that we have the right to protect our own person and property....which of course, includes the mention of govt., above.

    And I think I understand your sentiments, so perhaps I should include this; my father has already offered to me, several of his firearms. I have insisted that he pass most of them on to his grandchildren (which he already has). However, there are a select few that I've called dibs on . IOW, I have no worries that I won't be able to gain access to firearms whenever I feel the need. And of course, as he's 80yrs old now, I am probably a short time away from receiving the aforementioned. I'm just not in a hurry, kwim? .
    I will send you my address. If the time ever comes, I only have two hands. I'd rather have you on my side.
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    Originally Posted by Brackneyc View Post
    I will send you my address. If the time ever comes, I only have two hands. I'd rather have you on my side.
    Done deal
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    The 2nd amendment protects us from more than just a tyrant government or for self protection , read this!!!

    "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." is a quote by Isoroku Yamamoto, Commander-in-Chief of the Imperial Japanese Navy during World War 2

    This is why we will never have a "Red Dawn" type invasion here!!!
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    Originally Posted by Brackneyc View Post
    I am however suggesting that guns may well end up being illegal to own one day, even in Texas. What is to stop that from happening?
    So far, all the talk about Texas secession has been nothing but a bunch of gibberish with only a few extreme right wingers thinking it's a good thing. I predict that all of that would change if there was a serious effort to ban all firearms from the state.
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    I think the point is that responsible people can get a Class III firearm permit because they enjoy shooting as much as you enjoy deadlifting BH...The danger does not lie in ownership it lies in criminal conduct.

    Explosives such as pipe bombs should be something to fear... Anyone can make them and they are easy to conceal...

    Enjoy the freedom that our soldiers have died for
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    Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
    So far, all the talk about Texas secession has been nothing but a bunch of gibberish with only a few extreme right wingers thinking it's a good thing. I predict that all of that would change if there was a serious effort to ban all firearms from the state.
    By the time a ban was serious, it would be too late to organize a fight. The idea is to structure it so the very thought of it would be considered a bad idea. Not one of the 50 states strikes me as being off-limits to a weapons ban.
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    http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/

    Feinstein to Introduce Assault Weapons Bill

    “On the first day of the new Congress, I intend to introduce a bill stopping the sale, transfer, importation and manufacturing of assault weapons as well as large ammunition magazines, strips and drums that hold more than 10 rounds.”

    Following is a summary of the 2013 legislation:

    Bans the sale, transfer, importation, or manufacturing of:
    120 specifically-named firearms;
    Certain other semiautomatic rifles, handguns, shotguns that can accept a detachable magazine and have one or more military characteristics; and
    Semiautomatic rifles and handguns with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds.
    Strengthens the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and various state bans by:
    Moving from a 2-characteristic test to a 1-characteristic test;
    Eliminating the easy-to-remove bayonet mounts and flash suppressors from the characteristics test; and
    Banning firearms with “thumbhole stocks” and “bullet buttons” to address attempts to “work around” prior bans.
    Bans large-capacity ammunition feeding devices capable of accepting more than 10 rounds.
    Protects legitimate hunters and the rights of existing gun owners by:
    Grandfathering weapons legally possessed on the date of enactment;
    Exempting over 900 specifically-named weapons used for hunting or sporting purposes; and
    Exempting antique, manually-operated, and permanently disabled weapons.
    Requires that grandfathered weapons be registered under the National Firearms Act, to include:
    Background check of owner and any transferee;
    Type and serial number of the firearm;
    Positive identification, including photograph and fingerprint;
    Certification from local law enforcement of identity and that possession would not violate State or local law; and
    Dedicated funding for ATF to implement registration.
    A pdf of the bill summary is available here: http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/publ...2-ac8ca4359119

    Federal registration, fingerprinting, etc.

    Of course the dumb c*nt is going to aim high so there's not a snowball's chance in hell of this passing, but I'll contact my senators and reps and let them know what I think of it just to be sure.
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