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Thread: Explosiveness?

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    Registered User nb19's Avatar
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    Explosiveness?

    How do I incorporate plyometrics/agility drills into my routine?Currently I'm doing legs twice a week.My leg day is 3 sets of 8 romanian deadlifts and 3 sets of 8 squats,followed by a core circuit.What I would do,is just do 3-6 sets of plyos before i lift,but i have 1 and a half to 2 and a half hours of PE daily in school,and we play a lot of full court basketball,and it kinda bothers my knees.I also occasionally go to the park for 2-4 hours on saturdays and play football or basketball.so,would adding the plyos be too much?or should i do them anyways,and then just take it easy in PE /skip the park when im feeling a little run down?thank you in advance
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    Registered User StickyDiva's Avatar
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    Would someone please help with this. I want to increase explosion for certain things too.
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    Registered User OneLastChance's Avatar
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    First, I will define explosiveness and then answer your question. All "explosiveness" is, is the ability to transfer force from the ground to your legs/body as quickly as possible. This can be in the form of anything from squats, sprinting, pushing someone, or lifting a couch. That being said, Plyo's are not going to go a long way to developing "explosiveness" like most people seem to want. When you look at guys like Trent Richardson, Calvin Johnson, Chris Johnson(Running back),Lebron James.. these are all extremely explosive people all in different ways. If you want to run faster, harder, knock defenders over, or drive down the court with lightning speed for the uncontested dunk or lay up - then there is only one solution; Start lifting heavier.


    Plyometrics(if done correctly) are great for developing jumping ability, coordination, and can provide a decent leg workout.

    But nothing is going to build speed, and explosiveness more than heavy explosive squats, lunges, deadlifts and leg press. If I could pick any 4 lower body exercises to give to anyone to build explosiveness it would be those. Drop the park football, and invite the guys to the gym instead and get a routine going based around those 4 lifts 2 times a week. As heavy as you go for 4 reps(forget about that 1 rep max BS). Do as much as you can with resistance training. Get a weighted vest, a sled or prowler(hell get both), and sprinting parachute, And get a big ass hill down some country road, and run up at full speed. THAT'S how you get explosive.


    The plyometrics should be done before the workout or between the days of that workout. And shouldn't be to taxing to where it messes with other's effectiveness. But honestly, plyo's are more effective for advanced guys because it's like filling in the cracks. If you don't have the bricks yet plyo's aren't going to anything, but make you "feel" faster. You will still lose in a race, you won't get off the line faster, and your not beating anyone to hoop just by doing plyo's.


    Spend the rest of the workout's you do getting big as hell. Because nothing is more imposing than someone who is physically bigger than you, and can run into you with his own body. That goes for being a DB or being a RB, doesn't matter. Even if you are a 5'11 SG being BIG with explosiveness is important. It's half the reason why guys like Lebron and Calvin Johnson are so feared on the field/court. Yes they are the best, but if they weren't that big then CB's and other PF's would easily be able to contest their plays.
    People say all of this crap about genetics this, genetics that. I will never let genetics tell me what I can and cannot do..
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    explosiveness tips

    you need to train explosively or what I outline as 'The gravity Edge principal 2 in my Underground Mass Secrets book.

    training heavier is not the answer here. training with strict control in an explosive manner is.

    How do you do this?

    This is a great wy to increase progress with body weight exercises so for demonstration Ill use a push up.

    IN a push up position, you would lower yourself slowly and in control preparing yourself mentally to explode as hard as you can when you get to the 'ground' position. Against gravity now push as hard as you can attempting to accelerate for the full distance of the repetition until you are at the top.

    you actually do not require to use any extra weight than your bodyweight if you actually are accelerating the full repetition.

    Instead of using weight as a gauge you actually use time under acceleration. or number of reps. As long as you are always accelerating as hard as you can you can apply this to all exercises and body part.

    As for actual programs , Im not egotisical enough to actually tell you I know your body and capabilities or muscle fibre breakdowns hormonal levels etc to tell you anything.

    The new way these days to really train at your peak and skip all the BS is to get a genetic test. you can save yourself years of trial and error thousands of dollars and head ache by getting one of these tests and train right out of the box to optimize your genetics instead of trial and error like pretty much every 'expert' sellign his book tries to tell you his 'best way….good luck….
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    Originally Posted by UMS View Post

    training heavier is not the answer here. training with strict control in an explosive manner is.



    you actually do not require to use any extra weight than your bodyweight if you actually are accelerating the full repetition.
    Do what? Bro, go tell ANY D1 athlete at any school in the nation for ANY sport and they will tell you to lift heavy for explosiveness. From football to tennis That is step number one to developing the correct power required to explode off the ground at high speeds. And by no means was I saying to become a powerlifter, I assumed it was already a given that you wanted to explode on the "up" part of the movement, and control on the down. Not trying to start any arguments or anything like that, but I felt like this part of the comment was just incorrect in my experience..

    Again ask any D1, JUCO, or D2-D3 athletes what program they use and you will see heavy lifts. Hell it is on google.
    People say all of this crap about genetics this, genetics that. I will never let genetics tell me what I can and cannot do..
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    I would be cautious telling a high school kid to lift heavy weight.

    Using only your body weight will generate more power than resistance exercises but they aren't always practical. Also, generating force is only half the battle. Before you can apply force you must first absorb force through eccentric muscle contraction.

    mobility>stability>strength in the order. First you need to make sure you can move through full ROM in all your exercises. Then you need to make sure your stabilizers are firing when you start adding load. You should look almost mechanically in your movement (if you're swaying back and forth you're not ready for weight). If you can't do a bodyweight squat, it make no sense to add a weighted barbell. If you're good with the first two, I would work with around 70% your 1RM for 3-5 reps, and do the exercises explosively.

    I've been in plenty of college weight rooms as a player and as a coach and honestly most small college strength coaches are clueless. Far too much weight and far too many injuries. Big time programs do some heavy lifts but they probably have a 5:1 player/coach ratio so they can watch them closely. You also have to realize that we only do a few heavy sets a workout and that is only for a few months out of the year. Strength training is probably only 25% of a workout and the rest is flexibility, agility, and "core" training.
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    Originally Posted by jonmd123 View Post
    I would be cautious telling a high school kid to lift heavy weight.

    Using only your body weight will generate more power than resistance exercises but they aren't always practical. Also, generating force is only half the battle. Before you can apply force you must first absorb force through eccentric muscle contraction.

    mobility>stability>strength in the order. First you need to make sure you can move through full ROM in all your exercises. Then you need to make sure your stabilizers are firing when you start adding load. You should look almost mechanically in your movement (if you're swaying back and forth you're not ready for weight). If you can't do a bodyweight squat, it make no sense to add a weighted barbell. If you're good with the first two, I would work with around 70% your 1RM for 3-5 reps, and do the exercises explosively.

    I've been in plenty of college weight rooms as a player and as a coach and honestly most small college strength coaches are clueless. Far too much weight and far too many injuries. Big time programs do some heavy lifts but they probably have a 5:1 player/coach ratio so they can watch them closely. You also have to realize that we only do a few heavy sets a workout and that is only for a few months out of the year. Strength training is probably only 25% of a workout and the rest is flexibility, agility, and "core" training.
    Exactly. As I was saying in my first paragraph. Building the blocks of using resistance is more important than anything. Which requires flexibility and general strength with bodyweight. Great post.
    People say all of this crap about genetics this, genetics that. I will never let genetics tell me what I can and cannot do..
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    MS,CSCS,CF-L1,USAW,WBB HamburgerTrain's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jonmd123 View Post
    I would be cautious telling a high school kid to lift heavy weight.
    Terrible advice. There are reams of research suggestioning that proper, heavy training is not only safe but reduces the risk of injury for youth athletes. There is also a ton of research that has found correlations between mximal strength, power, and playing time (comparisions of 1st vs 2nd team players, amatuer vs elite, etc.).

    I would put "kids shouldn't lift heavy" in the same realm of advice as "muscle turns into fat" and "creatine is steroids." F*cking wrong.

    From personal experience, I have coached 12 year olds that deadlift 300+ with perfect form. The only side effect was them wrecking kids in their givin sports. Those kids also jumped higher, ran faster, and picked up on new skills faster than anyone else. As maximal/absolute strength improves, so does the capacity for more work and skill development. To deny that facet of training is just not smart programming.
    "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats."
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    Take that power lifting junk somewhere else. The risk/reward is just not there. You cannot cause any adaption within the desired muscle while performing sets of 1-2 reps, while still using perfect form. In other words, you'll need a load so high it causes you to break form. Even if you use close to perfect form you're still causing tons of trauma to the body (usually lower back, shoulders, knees). If you want to workout 3 days a week and tell everyone how much you deadlift that's fine, but it doesn't fit in an athlete's routine.

    There is so many better options than telling a kid to do some max-outs on squat and giving them an ice pack when they walk out the gym. I don't have a problem working with 85-95% of their RM when I'm training an athlete that can handle the load, but you're suggesting to an athlete you have never met and know nothing about to lift heavy weight. If that is the case, you should fly out and train them to perform the exercises with good form and/or offer to pay for any medical bills they incur from injuries.

    Any coach that has half a clue knows that working mainly unilaterally and using loads in the 75-85% 1RM range while controlling the weight down and exploding up are incredibly safer and far superior in improving athletic performance.
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    Originally Posted by jonmd123 View Post
    Take that power lifting junk somewhere else. The risk/reward is just not there. You cannot cause any adaption within the desired muscle while performing sets of 1-2 reps, while still using perfect form. In other words, you'll need a load so high it causes you to break form. Even if you use close to perfect form you're still causing tons of trauma to the body (usually lower back, shoulders, knees). If you want to workout 3 days a week and tell everyone how much you deadlift that's fine, but it doesn't fit in an athlete's routine.

    There is so many better options than telling a kid to do some max-outs on squat and giving them an ice pack when they walk out the gym. I don't have a problem working with 85-95% of their RM when I'm training an athlete that can handle the load, but you're suggesting to an athlete you have never met and know nothing about to lift heavy weight. If that is the case, you should fly out and train them to perform the exercises with good form and/or offer to pay for any medical bills they incur from injuries.

    Any coach that has half a clue knows that working mainly unilaterally and using loads in the 75-85% 1RM range while controlling the weight down and exploding up are incredibly safer and far superior in improving athletic performance.
    A typical youth athlete will not be working with weights that are 4-6x their bodyweight. They experience those forces when sprinting, changing direction, and jumping. I would argue there is more trauma and less control of technique in those situations than there ever will be under a heavy squat.

    The instancce of serious injury in weightlifting out of 100 lifters is .003. The instance of serious injury of soccer players is 12 out of 100 participants.

    What you are describing is internet broscience to the worst degree.
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    S&C evolves fast. 5-10 years ago I would of agreed with you, but the good coaches don't train like that anymore. Bilateral 90-100% training is a thing of the past. Athletes don't move slowly and off 2 legs, they move fast off one leg. I don't care how much force you think you're producing, it doesn't carry over to the field.

    "A typical youth athlete will not be working with weights that are 4-6x their bodyweight. They experience those forces when sprinting, changing direction, and jumping. I would argue there is more trauma and less control of technique in those situations than there ever will be under a heavy squat."

    As far as this ^^^ it's not about the force, it's about where that force is coming from and the time under that force. I could do an ankle jump in my living room and experience the same force on my body as a 1RM squat. That's a ridiculous argument.

    Train the way you want but don't bring that in here with all the young athletes that read these.
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    Originally Posted by jonmd123 View Post
    S&C evolves fast. 5-10 years ago I would of agreed with you, but the good coaches don't train like that anymore. Bilateral 90-100% training is a thing of the past. Athletes don't move slowly and off 2 legs, they move fast off one leg. I don't care how much force you think you're producing, it doesn't carry over to the field.

    "A typical youth athlete will not be working with weights that are 4-6x their bodyweight. They experience those forces when sprinting, changing direction, and jumping. I would argue there is more trauma and less control of technique in those situations than there ever will be under a heavy squat."

    As far as this ^^^ it's not about the force, it's about where that force is coming from and the time under that force. I could do an ankle jump in my living room and experience the same force on my body as a 1RM squat. That's a ridiculous argument.

    Train the way you want but don't bring that in here with all the young athletes that read these.
    Like I said, I've trained hundreds of athletes both in the colliegiate setting as an S&C coach and in the private sector. Bad form on any lift is a result of bad coaching. Coaches who argue that heavy compound lifts are too "risky" either don't do their homework or are too lazy/don't know how to teach their clients/athlete how to do heavy weightroom work.

    Obivously no whole program is not built around max efforts, but they are a nessecary component of optimizing force development, if not the most important factor. Jumps, sprints, and speed work need to be done as well.

    It sounds like you have been "guru'ed" pretty good. Every method, modality, and program works for a short time. To completely dismiss any aspect of training, especially the most important to injury prevention, correlation to playing time, and maximizing gains from training (max efforts) is absolutely irresponsible.

    I get you are one of those unlateral training zealots. I understand you have some sort of point to prove. Speaking from real world experience, basing a program entirely around one legged/armed training is cheating your athletes out of maximizing their gains. Especially young athletes.
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    yeah
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