The Official K.O.H.T. V2 Thread

[Jasonk282]

Says the guy who can only high squat 280 after 1 year of training...

Now THAT is a good comeback.

[EricKanevskiy]

Says the guy who can only high squat 280 after 1 year of training...

That's irrelevant, I don't train for strength. Meanwhile...

Join Date: October 2010

Stats: 5'9", 171 lbs

Do tell me more about how your training methods are more effective.

From teh mouth of Jim Wendler himself...


The Boring But Big assistance program is simple. After completing the strength work with the basic exercise (squat, press, bench press or deadlift), you perform 5 sets of 10 reps with a lighter weight. This might not seem like much work, but believe me, it'll lead to new gains in strength and hypertrophy, not to mention serious soreness.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...onth_challenge

You have not a clue.

Ok.

[Anthony21]

So just a slight increase in frequency is the adjustment right? Awesome progress though bro.

I know you get a lot of hate on this board but keep doing you man and stay strong.

[BSully90]

So just a slight increase in frequency is the adjustment right? Awesome progress though bro.

I know you get a lot of hate on this board but keep doing you man and stay strong.

Hes only getting hate on this board because of his ego and his mind set that every workout sucks except his.

[CamLeslie]

Hes only getting hate on this board because of his ego and his mind set that every workout sucks except his.

^^ This. The progress is cool. I like to see people achieving their goals. However...

Statements like, "The most optimal training program in history, created by the most optimal person in history." rub me the wrong way. Now I imagine there is a little hyperbole there but still, no need to be a ****ing asshat.

[BSully90]

^^ This. The progress is cool. I like to see people achieving their goals. However...

Statements like, "The most optimal training program in history, created by the most optimal person in history." rub me the wrong way. Now I imagine there is a little hyperbole there but still, no need to be a ****ing asshat.

amen

[Saintsqc]

That's irrelevant, I don't train for strength. Meanwhile...

Join Date: October 2010

Stats: 5'9", 171 lbs

Started @ 140 lbs >20% fat
Former overweight/obese...Since I started lifting weight, I've been cutting for longer than I've been bulking.

Never said my training methods are more effective btw.

[EricKanevskiy]

^^ This. The progress is cool. I like to see people achieving their goals. However...

Statements like, "The most optimal training program in history, created by the most optimal person in history." rub me the wrong way. Now I imagine there is a little hyperbole there but still, no need to be a ****ing asshat.

Haters gonna hate.

[Anthony21]

Hes only getting hate on this board because of his ego and his mind set that every workout sucks except his.

I'm 27 years old and he's 16. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with a 16 year old about his attitude. Can his attitude be adjusted and a bit more humble? Sure but I'm not his parents.

I don't want to steer away from what this thread was created for though.

[BSully90]

I'm 27 years old and he's 16. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with a 16 year old about his attitude. Can his attitude be adjusted and a bit more humble? Sure but I'm not his parents.

I don't want to steer away from what this thread was created for though.

2shay.

[RockCrab]

In b4 bicycle vs motorcycle vs product lifecycle vs optimal supplementation discussion.

[CamLeslie]

In b4 bicycle vs motorcycle vs product lifecycle vs optimal supplementation discussion.

That's a good point. What is your recommended supplementation plan for this workout program?

[bravo96]

LOL. I think Jim Wendler knows a hell of a lot more than you do about building a program.

BTW. a program optimal gains are determined by the trainees experience. While your program might and clearly(by your results) optimal for teens and noobs that have very fast recovery times. For a more advanced lifter(intermediate) your program is very flawed and will result in over training...fast.

And real life is not like a WWE promo...

you do realisze this kind of program is similar to how alot of good natty pros train. the amount of exercise is abit to much for me, but overall its a solid set up.

[DerekEt]

It's ok Kanevsky, people will continue refusing to train every body part 3x a week as a natural. Nothing you can do about it, trust me, I already learned lol.

[bravo96]

lol just looked over again it most days have under 30 working sets its not really that high volume.

[FeelTheFear]

LOL. I think Jim Wendler knows a hell of a lot more than you do about building a program.

BTW. a program optimal gains are determined by the trainees experience. While your program might and clearly(by your results) optimal for teens and noobs that have very fast recovery times. For a more advanced lifter(intermediate) your program is very flawed and will result in over training...fast.

And real life is not like a WWE promo...

Special K is right, 5/3/1 is a program based on boosting your big lifts. Yes you can modify it to make it more favorable for hypertrophy but it's still not a hypertrophy program. End of story.

also lol'd at overtraining

[acrawlingchaos]

The program could easily be called "The Kitchen Sink". IMO, the program has excessive volume in the strength range and excessive redundant movements. Nor does your program have any sort of progress scheme (is there one?).


Great progress either way.

[EricKanevskiy]

Nor does your program have any sort of progress scheme (is there one?).

The progression scheme is discussed in the video.

[acrawlingchaos]

The progression scheme is discussed in the video.

Linear progression (either reps or weight) in EVERY exercise? Every workout? All those exercises? For a natural athlete?

I stand by my initial assessment. Too much volume, too aggressive (especially in the strength range), for a natural novice. There are too many redundant movements that are typically reserved for bringing up lagging body parts. Novices don't have enough time under the bar to HAVE any lagging body parts.



EDIT:
When including warm up sets for strength movements, I can only imagine what the over volume must be, and why you are in the gym 2 hours a day, 5 days a week. Few people have that much time to spare for the gym, and trying to get a novice to commit to that sort of time will be near impossible.

[EricKanevskiy]

Linear progression (either reps or weight) in EVERY exercise? Every workout? All those exercises? For a natural athlete?

I stand by my initial assessment. Too much volume, too aggressive (especially in the strength range), for a natural novice. There are too many redundant movements that are typically reserved for bringing up lagging body parts. Novices don't have enough time under the bar to HAVE any lagging body parts.



EDIT:
When including warm up sets for strength movements, I can only imagine what the over volume must be, and why you are in the gym 2 hours a day, 5 days a week. Few people have that much time to spare for the gym, and trying to get a novice to commit to that sort of time will be near impossible.

I said that that's what you should aim for and you really should.

Which movements exactly do you believe are redundant? Each lift that is included serves a purpose; nothing is redundant.

Trust me, there are people who are willing to put in the time. I have two people that I'm coaching in real life running the program and I've been getting private messages on ******** from people on the day-lee telling me how much they're enjoying the program. Two hours a day, five days a week isn't even that much. If you don't want to put in the time, your results will be mediocre. You can really say that about any venture that you want to succeed in and bodybuilding is no different.

[Jasonk282]

Special K is right, 5/3/1 is a program based on boosting your big lifts. Yes you can modify it to make it more favorable for hypertrophy but it's still not a hypertrophy program. End of story.

also lol'd at overtraining

So getting your main compound lifts bigger and higher to handle more weight for more reps and finish it off with assistance isoloation won't build a big strong person...OK

[Jasonk282]

you do realisze this kind of program is similar to how alot of good natty pros train. the amount of exercise is abit to much for me, but overall its a solid set up.

Yes...doesn't mean that it's the most optimal program evar made and that you'll never want another program again and that everyone will get results on it.

I train for strength to get my big 4 lifts up and use assistance for 'muscle building". It's like Layne said...people who squat 500lbs don't have small legs. Get stronger in all rep ranges and you'll have a big strong body.

[timmzzy1]

Do tell me more about how your training methods are more effective.

Been training for a year.
Weighs 180lbs

Do tell me more about how your training methods are more effective than elite level athletes

[EricKanevskiy]

Yes...doesn't mean that it's the most optimal program evar made and that you'll never want another program again and that everyone will get results on it.

I train for strength to get my big 4 lifts up and use assistance for 'muscle building". It's like Layne said...people who squat 500lbs don't have small legs. Get stronger in all rep ranges and you'll have a big strong body.

Many powerlifters do. For example:



No hate to Martyn.

Been training for a year.
Weighs 180lbs

Do tell me more about how your training methods are more effective than elite level athletes

Pretty dumb comment and irrelevant to the discussion.

[greekmanman]

I have been following a similar routine to the one in the OP for over a year now; it's served me well. Volume can obviously be tapered if that is a concern for those who do not have adequate work capacity.

[ODoyle99]

Meh, It's a modified PHAT routine (and PHAT is supposed to be a template anyway).
Also, I know you said you like this exercise selection better than other PHAT routines, but I don't at all.

Also think the original PHAT routine would be better for hypertrophy as you can hit everything a lot harder and more thoroughly on hypertrophy days

[xSup3r]

would do after cut.

[batman37]

It isn't a bad routine per say. It has all the right idea. I just have a problem with all the variety... Leaves room for a lot of programming errors and mistakes for newbies. Also it is tougher to learn each core movement.

I think it is a great program, just not for a true novice.


Edit: For real just read it again, dafaq? WAY too much going on.

[MilkBender]

gonna get on dat KOHT V2 after I cut. I'm pretty excited srs

[EricKanevskiy]

In. Haven't made strength gains in who knows how long, will give this a go for 8 weeks.

would do after cut.

gonna get on dat KOHT V2 after I cut. I'm pretty excited srs

Glad to hear it!