7 Months on Sheiko - A Report

[adamsz]

I ran Sheiko from the beginning of May until my first meet last Saturday, so about 7 months total. I ran 29-37-32, then 29-37-31-32.

Lifts increased as follows:

Squat: 350 --> 405

Bench Press: 310 --> 336

Deadlift: 475 --> 507

So an increase of 113lbs to my total.

Accessory Work

For the first 3 month cycle I tried to stick to the program as it was laid out as closely as possible, with the exception of taking out lunges because they pinch my lower back in a weird way. After becoming familiarized with the program and analyzing what seemed necessary and what wasn't, I started switching out certain exercises. For example, I switched cable flyes for DB flyes, and hyperextensions for good mornings simply because I liked those exercises better and felt they were more beneficial to me.

For most of the program I also would add in a 4th back/shoulders/biceps hypertrophy day since the program is particularly lacking in pulling movements besides deadlifts.

Deadlifts

The one thing Sheiko did not work for me was deadlifts. After doing the first 3 month cycle doing lots of paused deadlifts and rackpulls I only added 5lbs to my deadlift max (it should probably be noted however that I did rackpulls instead of deadlift from boxes because I didn't have any boxes at my gym - if I used deadlift from boxes as prescribed I wonder if the outcome would have been different). In general when I did deadlifts if I could get it up to at least mid-shin I could always finish the pull, so I figured my weakness was off the floor. So starting my 2nd 4-month block I dropped the paused deadlifts and just did them as regular deadlifts, and swapped rackpulls for deficit deadlifts. After 2 months of doing this my deadlift still didn't seem to be improving at all, so I consulted some people on the forums knowledgable of Sheiko (notably MISSINGLINK who followed ChaseTs Sheiko work here) he suggested just doing 5 sets of 3 at 80% (a common rep scheme from Sheiko) and then addressing your weaknesses as you see fit. So for Sheiko 31 I did the 5 sets of 3 at 80%, and then would do 4 sets of 315 x 3 deficit deadlifts to help address my weakness off the floor. Switching to this yielded a 27lb bump to my deadlift max in 2 months, and worked much better than the prescribed Sheiko work for deadlifts.

Bench Press

When I started Sheiko I had never really done a paused rep on bench press. Starting the program the benching portion was too easy, so I ended up pausing every rep to make it harder. The only time I wouldn't pause a rep would be occasionally on the huge pyramid sets where you end up doing sets of 10-12 on the bottom sets of the pyramid, and by then my chest would be so fatigued I would usually just do touch-and-go on those last couple sets. When it came time for my competition doing a paused rep was 2nd nature to me and I felt very prepared.

About 5 months in to Sheiko my shoulders started giving me greif from benching 3x a week, so as a result I slowly moved in my grip closer and closer until I was doing all my bench sets as CGBP. After taking some time off before the meet my shoulders now seem fine though.

Pros of Sheiko:
- tons of volume on the big 3 so it really helps to engrain good form
- helps build confidence in that you never do more than 85% of your 1RM so every set is definitely "doable" but you have those moments where you start to doubt yourself i.e. "crap there's no way I can do 7 sets of 245 on bench" but then you think about it and you're like yes it is definitely PHYSICALLY possible and you push through it (I only missed about 3 reps during my entire 7 months)
- great for conditioning because you're forced to do so much volume, and as a result your rest times become fairly low (on average it was 1-2 minute for bench and squat, and 2-4 minutes for deadlifts)

Cons of Sheiko:
- Definitely can get boring doing the same lifts day in and day out over and over
- workouts are LONG and HARD: my workouts (not including warming up and stretching/foam rolling after) averaged 2-2.5 hours. Throw in warming up and the stretching stuff, and we're talking 3-4 hours in the gym easy (yes strong life)
- no pulling movements in the program at all besides deadlift
- nothing to address postural imbalances created by so much benching

Thoughts

One thing to note though is that if you're a natty lifter it can definitely run you into the ground. By the end of my training block leading up to the meet I had a laundry list of nagging injuries: shoulders hurt, knees hurt, and my cubetal fossa (the area opposite of the elbow where you're forarm and bicep meet) starting hurting really bad: Sheiko can be hard as hell on the joints and tendons because it is so damn volume heavy. Part of this might have been than I ran 31 which is a more advanced/volume-heavy cycle than 29 and 37, but I think if you keep upping you're training maxes on any of the Sheiko cycles eventually you're going to get small injuries here and there which will add up and affect your training.

All that being said, overall Sheiko is a great program and I definitely would recommend it. Doing Sheiko helped me basically fully transition into powerlifting, which I am happy about (previous to Sheiko I ran 5/3/1 for 6 months but focused mainly on the bodybuilding accessory stuff).

EDIT

I think it is very important to note that I didn't really gain any weight during this 7 month period. I always hovered between 200-210. On average I wake up at 205 and am 210 by the end of the day, and it hasn't really changed for the most part during the last 7 months.

[slothguy]

Nice write up! As you said... I think the one thing that would kill me on Sheiko is the repetitiveness. Hitting heavy PRs, and trying out new exercises is something that keeps me motivated and wanting to be in the gym. I think I would find it very tough to muster up the motivation to stay consistent with Sheiko. Good on ya for doing it though!

[arian11]

So are you happy with your squat progress from 350 to 405 lbs in 7 months? I'm trying to remember how long it took me. I know I hit 304 in a meet and then 4 months later hit 380 in another meet. Then I believe I hit 400 after the base cycle of Smolov so another month.

[samsont]

So are you happy with your squat progress from 350 to 405 lbs in 7 months? I'm trying to remember how long it took me. I know I hit 304 in a meet and then 4 months later hit 380 in another meet. Then I believe I hit 400 after the base cycle of Smolov so another month.

dude he put pounds on his total, and that's awesome. some people go backwards in 7 months. how fast you hit 400 doesn't matter or have anything to do with anything.


GJ OP.

[arian11]

dude he put pounds on his total, and that's awesome. some people go backwards in 7 months. how fast you hit 400 doesn't matter or have anything to do with anything.


GJ OP.

I guess that makes sense. I know some fawker who maxed out on Friday and hit 405. His squat was at 350 a month ago.

[martin_mathers]

sheiko worked great for my bench and okay for my squat but not my deadlift. once i cut down the volume and focus on heavy singles my deadlift went up a ton

[xRequiem]

So are you happy with your squat progress from 350 to 405 lbs in 7 months? I'm trying to remember how long it took me. I know I hit 304 in a meet and then 4 months later hit 380 in another meet. Then I believe I hit 400 after the base cycle of Smolov so another month.

I agree, while progress is progess you could have probably made better gains on a weekly LP program. Especially since your young you shouldnt have a problem with Madcow or TM. Sheiko seems like too much work for such a small result(at our numbers).

[diefatty]

I've been told sheiko works great for bench. I'm hoping to use it myself pretty soon.

[BigLarge]

dude he put pounds on his total, and that's awesome. some people go backwards in 7 months. how fast you hit 400 doesn't matter or have anything to do with anything.


GJ OP.

this x10000, comparing your progress to others is meaningless

OP, I've run Sheiko for over a year now and have similar results to you. Once difference I have is the deadlift routine is working for me and I have not injured myself yet

[adamsz]

Nice write up! As you said... I think the one thing that would kill me on Sheiko is the repetitiveness. Hitting heavy PRs, and trying out new exercises is something that keeps me motivated and wanting to be in the gym. I think I would find it very tough to muster up the motivation to stay consistent with Sheiko. Good on ya for doing it though!

Thank you sir. It definitely got repetitive as hell, and pretty boring. But when you're doing it you know it's working and you're getting stronger so you just gotta stick with it and grind through the workouts.

So are you happy with your squat progress from 350 to 405 lbs in 7 months? I'm trying to remember how long it took me. I know I hit 304 in a meet and then 4 months later hit 380 in another meet. Then I believe I hit 400 after the base cycle of Smolov so another month.

Yes, I'm definitely happy with it. One thing I didn't mention in the OP is that during those 7 months I basically learned how to squat for powerlifting. Prior to that I squatted oly-style (high-bar, ATG) during my 6 months running 5/3/1, and didn't know how to squat for powerlifting. For the first 3 month cycle I used box squats to learn how to initiate the movement more with my hips instead of my knees and "sit back" into the squat instead of basically just dive-bombing it like I did when I oly-squatted. I then slowly transitioned to not using the box, and progress came. I think if I already knew how to squat PL-style prior to running Sheiko I would have got 70lbs+ on my squat in the same time period.

dude he put pounds on his total, and that's awesome. some people go backwards in 7 months. how fast you hit 400 doesn't matter or have anything to do with anything.

GJ OP.

Thanks man. Hitting 405 was a huge milestone for me in itself because it was one of the 4 main goals I had for 2012.

sheiko worked great for my bench and okay for my squat but not my deadlift. once i cut down the volume and focus on heavy singles my deadlift went up a ton

Ha looks like we had a pretty similar experience then. I think squatting 2x a week coupled with how much DL volume they have you do in that one day is just too much on the posterior chain if you're a natty lifter.

I agree, while progress is progess you could have probably made better gains on a weekly LP program. Especially since your young you shouldnt have a problem with Madcow or TM. Sheiko seems like too much work for such a small result(at our numbers).

113lbs in 7 months is a small result? not sure if srs...

I've been told sheiko works great for bench. I'm hoping to use it myself pretty soon.

I am definitely really happy with how much my bench progressed on Sheiko. I went from being benching body-builder style with no arch, touch-and-go, to benching with a good arch and having a great pause. Good luck if you try it out!

this x10000, comparing your progress to others is meaningless

OP, I've run Sheiko for over a year now and have similar results to you. Once difference I have is the deadlift routine is working for me and I have not injured myself yet

Yeah man I definitely remember you! I'm pretty sure I've made a few posts with questions regarding Sheiko and you've answered them. Thanks man.

That's funny you mention the deadlift routine is working for you - another user who posts mainly in the nut section, Phal, ran Sheiko for awhile and had awesome gains on his deadlifts and squats, but not on his bench. Funny how certain portions seem to work for some people and others don't.

In terms of not injuring yourself, how much mobility/prehab work do you do? I went from doing 5 minutes on the bike before lifting and a few minutes of foam rolling afterwards, to doing a 20 minute dynamic warmup before lifting, and 30-60 minutes of stretching, foam rolling, and mobility work after every workout. Also added in tons of rear delt prehab work. It just became more and more necessary as I increased the maxes in the spreadsheet and lifts became progressively harder, and as a result my body getting more beat up. Curious to see what it's been like for you.

[BigLarge]

In terms of not injuring yourself, how much mobility/prehab work do you do? I went from doing 5 minutes on the bike before lifting and a few minutes of foam rolling afterwards, to doing a 20 minute dynamic warmup before lifting, and 30-60 minutes of stretching, foam rolling, and mobility work after every workout. Also added in tons of rear delt prehab work. It just became more and more necessary as I increased the maxes in the spreadsheet and lifts became progressively harder, and as a result my body getting more beat up. Curious to see what it's been like for you.

Almost ZERO. I do maybe 5 minutes of dynamic stretching before my workout - generally consists of BW squats, dynamic hamstring stretching, and shoulder dislocates. Will probably bite me in the butt sooner or later. Im probably pretty lucky, but I always wear my Rehbands also.

Like you, i add a 4th day which focuses on upper back/rear delt hypertrophy.

[DerekEt]

Man, this was pretty disappointing to read. I got these same numbers in a MUCH shorter period of time following a much simpler programming (3x3,3x5) and didn't have any nagging injuries. I think 375->405 squat took 3 months or less, and I know people who do Smolov usually can get there faster(~1 month).Do you think Sheiko maybe just "doesn't work" very well for natural lifters? Maybe the volume and frequency was taking away from your recovery and strength?

Regardless, a 335/400+/500+ is something to be happy of, so keep up the good work : )

[adamsz]

Almost ZERO. I do maybe 5 minutes of dynamic stretching before my workout - generally consists of BW squats, dynamic hamstring stretching, and shoulder dislocates. Will probably bite me in the butt sooner or later. Im probably pretty lucky, but I always wear my Rehbands also.

Like you, i add a 4th day which focuses on upper back/rear delt hypertrophy.

Dude that's ridiculous... How you've managed to stay injury free is a miracle IMO lol. What cycles have you run so far?

Man, this was pretty disappointing to read. I got these same numbers in a MUCH shorter period of time following a much simpler programming (3x3,3x5) and didn't have any nagging injuries. I think 375->405 squat took 3 months or less, and I know people who do Smolov usually can get there faster(~1 month).Do you think Sheiko maybe just "doesn't work" very well for natural lifters? Maybe the volume and frequency was taking away from your recovery and strength?

Regardless, a 335/400+/500+ is something to be happy of, so keep up the good work : )

Tempted to neg you because you posted the exact same thing in my thread in the workout program section and didn't even respond to what I said there... Are you trying to show off or something?

Like I said in the other thread, That's pretty amazing if you achieved those same results in a shorter time frame with simpler programming IMO. I think there are a lot of variables to take into consideration like noobie stength gains, etc. Prior to doing Sheiko I had been lifting for about a year and a half, and my noobie strength gains were exhausted without a doubt. Before doing Sheiko I ran 5/3/1 for 6 months and finally plateaued on all the lifts on that program, which is what led me to getting on Sheiko. And I don't think there is anything "disappointing" about adding 100+lbs to the Big 3 in 7 months, considering in the 2 years I've been working out a commerical gym I'd say 90%+ of the people I've seen there for those 2 years haven't added on half of that in 2 whole years... It's all about perspective I think, and progress is progress

[PanzeR-]

Man, this was pretty disappointing to read. I got these same numbers in a MUCH shorter period of time following a much simpler programming (3x3,3x5) and didn't have any nagging injuries. I think 375->405 squat took 3 months or less, and I know people who do Smolov usually can get there faster(~1 month).Do you think Sheiko maybe just "doesn't work" very well for natural lifters? Maybe the volume and frequency was taking away from your recovery and strength?

Regardless, a 335/400+/500+ is something to be happy of, so keep up the good work : )

Went from 450-335-545 to 495-365-600 in 4 months of sheiko, and did 500-365-615 first comp. I then went to 540-375-625 in another 4 months.
Many of my friends ran Sheiko along with me and they all put decent poundage on their totals. Just pointing out it can be ran as a natural lifter with great success.

[DerekEt]

Went from 450-335-545 to 495-365-600 in 4 months of sheiko, and did 500-365-615 first comp. I then went to 540-375-625 in another 4 months.
Many of my friends ran Sheiko along with me and they all put decent poundage on their totals. Just pointing out it can be ran as a natural lifter with great success.

WOW. Now that is AMAZING progress! What Sheiko Programs did you use? =o

[Frankdaddy]

People are so quick to judge and not motivate anybody. The reason some of you have progress during a routine used to super compensate is because you ran it for short periods and then "peaked" or went in a state of super compensation that makes you stronger for a short period of time. People think they lose strength, but this is mostly false because a person can lift 105% of their max 100% of the time, thats like asking Andy Bolton to deadlift 1000lbs 2 weeks after he maxed the first time. In reality he probably could not pull 960-1000 because the body Peaked to lift 105% of their max. The body does not peak very easily, routines like smolov and sheiko do this, given short enough time using.

The reason this guy ran 7 months of sheiko, he put on some solid poundages, not some quick peaked numbers in a month because he ran a routine to imitate it.

Also he does have a low total # compared to advanced lifters, so the routine was not for him because anybody who needs sheiko before getting to a 500 squat or deadlift and 300+ bench then they ran it too soon and probably could have got their with simpler routines without ruining the first time effects of an advanced routine. So guys with slightly higher totals who busted tail for years with more novice strategies that are actually basic and work the best will get more results when they put their platuauing body through a super advanced routine for a short period.

[ilicet51]

Tempted to neg you because you posted the exact same thing in my thread in the workout program section and didn't even respond to what I said there... Are you trying to show off or something?

Like I said in the other thread, That's pretty amazing if you achieved those same results in a shorter time frame with simpler programming IMO. I think there are a lot of variables to take into consideration like noobie stength gains, etc. Prior to doing Sheiko I had been lifting for about a year and a half, and my noobie strength gains were exhausted without a doubt. Before doing Sheiko I ran 5/3/1 for 6 months and finally plateaued on all the lifts on that program, which is what led me to getting on Sheiko. And I don't think there is anything "disappointing" about adding 100+lbs to the Big 3 in 7 months, considering in the 2 years I've been working out a commerical gym I'd say 90%+ of the people I've seen there for those 2 years haven't added on half of that in 2 whole years... It's all about perspective I think, and progress is progress

100 lbs. to total in 7 months is nothing, it's a pittance. I add 100 lbs. to my total every three months.




My total is right around 7000 lbs.

[prodiboy]

I did sheiko based training for about 6 months. and I agree with most of the things that you do say. Just some thing I'd like to add to it. Yes it took my total from ~1000lbs-1260 in this span, but there are several things that I would think of as major cons. and I also learn sure this training my work for me physically, it leaves me mental drained and unable to function in everyday life

Cons:
Squat form is get alot better because of the volume if within the proper environment. When I ran it my squat form was utter **** and it stayed that way pretty much the entire time I did sheiko. At the end of it, It left me beat up and needing a change.

For me personally I push hard within my workouts and I would break up the sets +/-2.5% for the 6 sets, but a lot of the times I would get frustrated with the same weights week after week so I'd push it and it would leave me fatigued. And it ended up with me burning out and going a completely different direction from sheiko.

For someone starting with sheiko that doesn't have a strong base to begin with, there is an extremely high risk for injury. I was extremely surprised that I never got injured considering how hard I pushed my workouts. Also I started sheiko/prelipin based training only after 2 months of training after finding a group to train with. There is no upper back work within sheiko which is needed with the amount of volume.

People misinterpret how sheiko should be performed because so much of it was lost within the translation of sheiko book. another thing to keep in mind is sheiko was a coach and these are example of his work, and programs should be changed to fit your needs not change your needs to the program

[Torrtrefireto]

There should be some sort of general agreement from Sheikoers that its not wise to do if you pull conventional

At least for most of them

[PanzeR-]

WOW. Now that is AMAZING progress! What Sheiko Programs did you use? =o

29-37-32, 39-31-32, 29-40-cms-prep1-32 but did not finish.

Still on a sheiko oriented routine. Mixed it up with RTS.
Hardest of them all was cms-prep. Funniest was 31.
For my deadlift I do my block pulls in such a way that I'm weaker on those than on regular deadlift, even with a strong lockout. I press my shins into the bar and put my feet as far as i can under the bar. I'm then stuck pulling like a dead-start RDL

[klaery]

WHen I tried sheiko the deadlift was hell. Even using a pretend lower max I couldn't finish the deadlift sessions.

[customz]

That is great progress. Im on my 4th month of sheiko and have pr'd on bench and dead. Gains don't come easy for me any,ore, by this programming has worked the best for me.

[Liftamulti]

dude he put pounds on his total, and that's awesome. some people go backwards in 7 months. how fast you hit 400 doesn't matter or have anything to do with anything.


GJ OP.

Yea, but why not put pounds on your total as fast as possible?

[adamsz]

Went from 450-335-545 to 495-365-600 in 4 months of sheiko, and did 500-365-615 first comp. I then went to 540-375-625 in another 4 months.
Many of my friends ran Sheiko along with me and they all put decent poundage on their totals. Just pointing out it can be ran as a natural lifter with great success.

Awesome work man, that's impressive as hell IMO. How much time did you devote to prehab/mobility out of curiosity? Trying to get some consensus here and see if I was the only one who had to devote a chit ton of time to it...

People are so quick to judge and not motivate anybody. The reason some of you have progress during a routine used to super compensate is because you ran it for short periods and then "peaked" or went in a state of super compensation that makes you stronger for a short period of time. People think they lose strength, but this is mostly false because a person can lift 105% of their max 100% of the time, thats like asking Andy Bolton to deadlift 1000lbs 2 weeks after he maxed the first time. In reality he probably could not pull 960-1000 because the body Peaked to lift 105% of their max. The body does not peak very easily, routines like smolov and sheiko do this, given short enough time using.

The reason this guy ran 7 months of sheiko, he put on some solid poundages, not some quick peaked numbers in a month because he ran a routine to imitate it.

Also he does have a low total # compared to advanced lifters, so the routine was not for him because anybody who needs sheiko before getting to a 500 squat or deadlift and 300+ bench then they ran it too soon and probably could have got their with simpler routines without ruining the first time effects of an advanced routine. So guys with slightly higher totals who busted tail for years with more novice strategies that are actually basic and work the best will get more results when they put their platuauing body through a super advanced routine for a short period.

Best post in this thread, serious. People do seem to forget the difference between a peaked max for a meet and a day-to-day max you can hit in the gym. I'd say at my meet I was really conservative and left a lot in the tank. I went 8 for 9 and probably could have done 10-15lbs more on both bench and deadlift, but decided I wanted to play it safe.

100 lbs. to total in 7 months is nothing, it's a pittance. I add 100 lbs. to my total every three months.

My total is right around 7000 lbs.

lold

I did sheiko based training for about 6 months. and I agree with most of the things that you do say. Just some thing I'd like to add to it. Yes it took my total from ~1000lbs-1260 in this span, but there are several things that I would think of as major cons. and I also learn sure this training my work for me physically, it leaves me mental drained and unable to function in everyday life

Cons:
Squat form is get alot better because of the volume if within the proper environment. When I ran it my squat form was utter **** and it stayed that way pretty much the entire time I did sheiko. At the end of it, It left me beat up and needing a change.

For me personally I push hard within my workouts and I would break up the sets +/-2.5% for the 6 sets, but a lot of the times I would get frustrated with the same weights week after week so I'd push it and it would leave me fatigued. And it ended up with me burning out and going a completely different direction from sheiko.

For someone starting with sheiko that doesn't have a strong base to begin with, there is an extremely high risk for injury. I was extremely surprised that I never got injured considering how hard I pushed my workouts. Also I started sheiko/prelipin based training only after 2 months of training after finding a group to train with. There is no upper back work within sheiko which is needed with the amount of volume.

People misinterpret how sheiko should be performed because so much of it was lost within the translation of sheiko book. another thing to keep in mind is sheiko was a coach and these are example of his work, and programs should be changed to fit your needs not change your needs to the program

This last bolded part is a really important point for sure. I definitely had to do tons of research to even know what some of the core accessory lifts were and a lot of time there wasn't even really any consensus. And the advanced lifters like Ben Rice definitely take the program and tweak it to fit their needs and it seems to work well for them.

And I know what you mean about bumping up the weights for the sake of breaking up monotony. Almost always on bench if it was 265-270 I would always round it up to 275 because I just felt more badass doing that lol. But ya I would always feel like I had been through the ringer by the end of the workouts.

There should be some sort of general agreement from Sheikoers that its not wise to do if you pull conventional

At least for most of them

i guess I have heard this mentioned before - is there anyone who pulls conventional who can say otherwise?

WHen I tried sheiko the deadlift was hell. Even using a pretend lower max I couldn't finish the deadlift sessions.

This feel... I know it. Brb rack deads feeling like I'm bout to snap my chit up because my lower back is already so fatigued from the first round of deads.

That is great progress. Im on my 4th month of sheiko and have pr'd on bench and dead. Gains don't come easy for me any,ore, by this programming has worked the best for me.

That's awesome man. Do you pull sumo or conventional???

Yea, but why not put pounds on your total as fast as possible?

Read post 16

[BigLarge]

Dude that's ridiculous... How you've managed to stay injury free is a miracle IMO lol. What cycles have you run so far?

29-37-32 - twice, 37-30-32, and this week finishing a "sheiko" routine written by David Bates

Yea, but why not put pounds on your total as fast as possible?

You are missing the freaking point...

[phal]

I've had no problem with the deadlift portion (coupled with everything else) and I pull conventional.

[adamsz]

29-37-32 - twice, 37-30-32, and this week finishing a "sheiko" routine written by David Bates

So you ran 30 eh? How did that go? I considered running it but a lot of people advised against it saying it would completely run me into the ground. Any links for the Bates Sheiko routine?

I've had no problem with the deadlift portion (coupled with everything else) and I pull conventional.

ha I was just thinking about that. Do you have any stats on how much your DL increased on Sheiko in a certain time period?

[adamsz]

Something I forgot to mention in the OP:

I think it is very important to note that I didn't really gain any weight during this 7 month period. I always hovered between 200-210. On average I wake up at 205 and am 210 by the end of the day, and it hasn't really changed for the most part during the last 7 months.

[Liftamulti]

Read post 16

You are missing the freaking point...

TL;DR. The point is to get strong the most efficient way. I'm not saying that this way wasn't, maybe it was.

[martin_mathers]

TL;DR. The point is to get strong the most efficient way. I'm not saying that this way wasn't, maybe it was.

i agree with getting strong in an efficient way but that doesnt mean putting lbs on your total as fast as possible. gotta pace yourself if you wanna stay in the game for a long time or you're gonna stall and burn out nomsayin