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  1. #31
    Training For Chest Hair rdferguson's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by EdgarAllanPoe View Post
    That is the purpose of independent contractors really is to foot the bill. Contractors are not expected to be forever and thats the understanding from the start, that should be common knowledge in terms of a independent contractor. I don't get how thats a bad attitude or anything else, its business. It's a contractor vs employee.

    Negatory. The purpose of any additional trainers in a small PT business is for business growth. Let me explain this as clearly as possible. When someone becomes your subcontractor, they become YOUR SUBCONTRACTOR. They actually have a much bigger purpose than covering your bills, even though that may be a benefit of having them around. If you can't see or respect that, then you're going to drive potential contractors away. A contractor's business is your business. It's for this reason that the big franchise gyms (the ones that we generically frown upon for a lot of good reasons) all have managers who the subcontractors answer to and meet with once or twice a week to assess how they're going at building and retaining their business and what needs working on. It's why they do shadow PTing, roleplay, marketing etc with their trainers. They've already got your rental fee, so they don't directly need to lift a finger, but it's good for the PT's, which, in turn, is good for the gym.

    Any business whether large or small will try to keep overhead low and profits high.

    And that's fine. It's also not the point.

    If I can bring in a qualified trainer that isn't at risk of injuring people that will pay me $200-$300 rent and work with 5 clients.....or I can bring in the same qualified trainer to pay me 50% of the $200/month that his 5 clients pay him providing me with $500. Why would i take the $200-$300?

    Because sooner or later a split will reach the point where the trainer can get a better deal elsewhere. Like I said before, from a contractor POV, the best-case scenario that is mutually beneficial to you and the trainer is 50/50 starting out, to a limit equal to a fair rental deal. Where I live, most rental deals for trainers are about $200-300/wk, with a $1,000+ sign-up fee and a 12-month lock-in contract, which adds up to at least $11,400 over the first year, which they will have to pay regardless of whether or not they're successful. When I first became qualified, I contemplated entering into such a deal, and the cumulative rent and start-up fess would have cost me nearly $20,000 for one year, no ifs, buts, or maybes. If I'm coming in off the street with no guarantees about anything other than that this is going to cost me in excess of $10,000, I'm not going to be overly enticed. On the flipside, if I properly establish myself as a trainer in your facility and have good business going on a 50/50 split, I might earn $100,000 this year -- that's 25hr/wk at $80/hr, a reasonable rate and workload for a moderately successful PT with a life outside his career -- but I'll be giving $50,000 of that to you, and then there's all my other business expenses. Suddenly that's not looking very favourable, either, and I'll be inclined to take my business elsewhere if I have the opportunity. But, if I pay you 50% up to a max of $250/wk, that's a pretty safe bet for me, and you're not exactly losing out on anything.

    Yes, the reason I am bringing in trainers to my facility is to make myself more money

    As I said above, they have a bigger role than footing your bill. It's good to make money out of your trainers, but it can only be healthy for business to see them as something inherently greater than a weekly/fortnightly/monthly cheque.

    I'm friends with the current people i have in now but if I brought in someone that just came to work, trained clients, left and didn't say much of anything that would be perfectly fine too as long as the person was dependable, trustworthy, professional, responsible and didn't get clients hurt.
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  2. #32
    community gym PT KyleAaron's Avatar
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    rd, once he'd told us he'd had 10 different people come and go in a couple of years and thought this was normal and good, I didn't think it was worth saying anything more to him.
    Elite coaching is about getting the last 5% out of a person's performance, personal training is about getting the first 50%.

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  3. #33
    Registered User EdgarAllanPoe's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rdferguson View Post
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    you can't have any control over a contractor really. What you described could potentially get the business owner in a pickle assuming the contractor wants to come back and petition for "employee" status with the irs. "Training" a subcontractor is one of the big red flags.

    I do like the cap idea, i think thats realistic. However, I think people have been disregarding the fact that i'm looking for PART TIMERS..not full time 40/hr a week trainers....so all these negative responses towards me I believe people are thinking of a full time job and thats not an option for anyone in my place. So the 50/50 will never get to that point financially.... but either way, i do like the cap idea.

    Avoid Exercising Control Over Independent Contractors

    Once you have hired an independent contractor, there are a number of work habits you should avoid if you want the IRS and other agencies to respect that classification:

    Don't supervise the IC or his or her assistants. The IC should perform services without your direction.
    Don't let the IC work at your offices unless the nature of the services absolutely requires it.
    Don't give the IC employee handbooks or company policy manuals.
    Don't establish the IC's working hours.
    Avoid giving ICs so much work or such short deadlines that they have to work full time for you.
    Don't provide ongoing instructions or training.
    Don't provide the IC with equipment or materials unless absolutely necessary.
    Don't give an IC business cards or stationery to use that have your company name on them.
    Don't give an IC a title within your company.
    Don't pay the IC's travel or other business expenses directly.
    Don't give an IC employment benefits.
    Don't require an IC to give you formal written reports.
    Don't invite an IC to employee meetings or functions.
    Don't refer to an IC as an employee or to your company as the IC's employer.
    Don't pay ICs on a weekly, biweekly, or monthly basis as you pay employees. Instead, require ICs to submit invoices, and pay them at the same time you pay other outside vendors.
    Follow the terms of the IC agreement, including its termination provisions.
    Don't give the IC new work after the original project is completed without signing a new IC agreement.
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  4. #34
    Registered User EdgarAllanPoe's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KyleAaron View Post
    rd, once he'd told us he'd had 10 different people come and go in a couple of years and thought this was normal and good, I didn't think it was worth saying anything more to him.
    umm....no i didn't. I haven't even been searching for contractors but for about 3-4 months and the 3 I have have been with me from the start, aside from 1 that started a month ago paying the 50/50.

    you can communicate with people on this forum without being a sarcastic ass in majority of your posts...really unnecessary
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  5. #35
    Registered User SFT's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by EdgarAllanPoe View Post
    you can communicate with people on this forum without being a sarcastic ass in majority of your posts...really unnecessary
    I do have to agree with this strongly. To be honest it is a quality that I have tried to avoid because it makes people resent you and generally care less about what you have to say. This lesson took me 24 years to learn. Perhaps we all learn at different rates?
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  6. #36
    Omega Level RyouBakua's Avatar
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    interesting read


    havent read all of it but im going through it
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  7. #37
    Fitness Proprietor SageFit's Avatar
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    So here's my take as someone with a lot of experience in this situation.

    I've found your best bet in looking for trainers is trying to find appropriate personality as opposed to finding the guy who has the most training experience. I really do feel that you can't teach personality but you can absolutely teach personal training, given the person has some kind of background in fitness/working out.

    My best employee had 0 experience when I hired him. He was personable, outgoing and extremely approachable. He's jacked as hell but he had also never trained anyone before. When he started it was a little rough since he didn't know how to put together programs but little by little he came around. With help from me he's now my best employee by far. Not only is he an incredible trainer, only 1 year later, but he also happens to be SOOOOOO overachieving as an employee in other situations. Here's a great example. One of the chains broke on our rowing machine and before I even got into work for the day he had called the company and had them send a new one for free, he also repaired it when it arrived. Stuff like that isn't even part of his job discription.

    Well, I guess my opinion is that when you look for trainers look for the good person, the person you click with. Not necessarily the one with the most experience. Personality is EVERYTHING in this business.

    Before anyone jumps on me just remember that he IS a bodybuilder and has a great understanding of anatomy and movement. He just never trained anyone.

    EDIT: So I re-read your post and see your speaking more about independant workers as opposed to employees. If you're not giving them clients does it really even matter what they do? I could barely care about my 3 independants. It's my 6 employees I care about. Independants come and go, it's the guys you give clients to that matter. Either that or i'm not quite understand the way your studio works which may also be true.
    Last edited by SageFit; 01-05-2013 at 05:52 PM.
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