Multiple-O Sessions

[psychodiver9]

Congrats on the pr but you really need to consider scaling back the training. You are running yourself into the ground. Maybe time for a deload week?

[simp3204]

But then she'll never wanna move to Florida and join the ***

[izzygrant]

Oh izzy, ye who never learns

Is the back pain just some kind of general injury/fatigue or do you think you tweaked it doing something?

I'm hoping more general. It feels the same as what happened to my left lat, in the same spot, over Christmas, and that resolved itself fairly quickly with a few days off. So this time I didn't take it as seriously and went on to PR my clean to 90 with it feeling iffy and likely did it some more damage. Sigh.

Congrats on the pr but you really need to consider scaling back the training. You are running yourself into the ground. Maybe time for a deload week?

What's that??... I mean yeah, the day before and workshop day I was just working with a bar and did nothing that counts, and I'm not able to do a lot of upper body with my back how it is so I'm being forced to deload somewhat right now.

[izzygrant]

Jan 30

Oly lifter chick is coming tomorrow instead. Definitely for the best; back is a bit improved but still not good. Squatted yesterday, and pretty much anything else I wanted to do involves lats to some degree so instead I went swimming and then fked around with my crew doing whatever random circuit they were doing.

Warmup
1/2 hour swimming
stretching in whirlpool, hnnngh jets massage on my poor abused back
foam rolling
dynamic band shoulder stretches

Random Stuff
face pulls 35lbs x10 x3
standing ab crunches 50lbs x10 x3
btn push presses in squat 15lbsx a bunch
static hold OH squat for 30s bar x5sets
barbell curls 40lbs x10 x3
good mornings 65 x12
yes machine 85 x12 x3
other stuff

Shoulder Rehab
band pull aparts
btn band pull aparts
band external rotation
shoulder dislocations

Mobility
glute/hammy/piri/quad/calf stretches and foam rolling
rolling out lats, upper back, chest and shoulder

Supps
AM: b complex, glucosamine, joint+
PWO: bcaa's, c4, creatine
PM: fish oil, CLA, antiox, inflaheal, multi

[FrmrHoss]

I appreciate that there is yes machine work, but no no machine work .

I've been having to do some high rep sets on the no machine myself lately.... don't know if it's an abductor issue or a hip flexor, but I have some real pain/tightness on the right hand side when it comes to opening up my hips.

[cactusflower]

I haven't been here in so long. I'm so sorry

I have missed you and the details of oly lifting.

I have been scattered the last few days.

Let's hope the scattering stops!

miss ya love ya

[BrotherWolf]

Jan 30

Oly lifter chick is coming tomorrow instead. Definitely for the best; back is a bit improved but still not good. Squatted yesterday, and pretty much anything else I wanted to do involves lats to some degree so instead I went swimming and then fked around with my crew doing whatever random circuit they were doing.

Have you considered an inversion table ? I just started using the decline bench last week between sets and after right before I hit the sauna
because I don't have access to a true inversion table the bench has a pretty steep decline , I just lay there for 5 minutes and the relief is immediate and it lasts
it's made a huge difference .

Besides decompressing the spine another big benefit is the blood that flows down into your spine
I am considering buying one to have at home but I will see a chiropractor first to make sure my condition is not going to be aggravated by it
there are 2 kinds of inversion tables one with bent knees and one with straight legs and having the wrong one can aggravate your inflammation depending on where the injury is

[wakechica]

Have you considered an inversion table ? I just started using the decline bench last week between sets and after right before I hit the sauna
because I don't have access to a true inversion table the bench has a pretty steep decline , I just lay there for 5 minutes and the relief is immediate and it lasts
it's made a huge difference .

Besides decompressing the spine another big benefit is the blood that flows down into your spine
I am considering buying one to have at home but I will see a chiropractor first to make sure my condition is not going to be aggravated by it
there are 2 kinds of inversion tables one with bent knees and one with straight legs and having the wrong one can aggravate your inflammation depending on where the injury is

My boyfriend has one... It's the weirdest (being upside down) but nicest (pain relief) feeling ever - it's near vertical; kinda scary as you don't think it's gonna hold!! Also ice your back as much as you can; helps a shed load.

[BrotherWolf]

My boyfriend has one... It's the weirdest (being upside down) but nicest (pain relief) feeling ever - it's near vertical; kinda scary as you don't think it's gonna hold!! Also ice your back as much as you can; helps a shed load.

Yeah they are weird lol

[arian11]

I went to a friend's house who had one and he had it adjusted for his short, top heavy body. Went on there and it didn't tip very much. Fat calves of peace. My upper body

[izzygrant]

I appreciate that there is yes machine work, but no no machine work .

I've been having to do some high rep sets on the no machine myself lately.... don't know if it's an abductor issue or a hip flexor, but I have some real pain/tightness on the right hand side when it comes to opening up my hips.

Well that's what happens when you let guys choose the workout

That region is so tricky when it comes to isolating a problem. There's so much interconnection and so many things that cause adhesion and tightness. Are you good about foam rolling a lot? That has helped me hugely, I used to have major piriformis and IT band tightness that caused adductor weakness. Also the exercises in the T Nation Glute Myth article are really good for hitting all of those muscles and rehabbing any imbalances. I can find that for you if you haven't seen.

I haven't been here in so long. I'm so sorry

I have missed you and the details of oly lifting.

I have been scattered the last few days.

Let's hope the scattering stops!

miss ya love ya

No worries doll! Life is busy, I know. I will wait patiently for you

Have you considered an inversion table ? I just started using the decline bench last week between sets and after right before I hit the sauna
because I don't have access to a true inversion table the bench has a pretty steep decline , I just lay there for 5 minutes and the relief is immediate and it lasts
it's made a huge difference .

Besides decompressing the spine another big benefit is the blood that flows down into your spine
I am considering buying one to have at home but I will see a chiropractor first to make sure my condition is not going to be aggravated by it
there are 2 kinds of inversion tables one with bent knees and one with straight legs and having the wrong one can aggravate your inflammation depending on where the injury is

My boyfriend has one... It's the weirdest (being upside down) but nicest (pain relief) feeling ever - it's near vertical; kinda scary as you don't think it's gonna hold!! Also ice your back as much as you can; helps a shed load.

Interesting... maybe I will go chill on the decline bench for a bit tonight. People are used to me doing weird sh!t in the gym, should be fine I don't think it goes very steep but I will experiment.

I went to a friend's house who had one and he had it adjusted for his short, top heavy body. Went on there and it didn't tip very much. Fat calves of peace. My upper body

Time for some klokov press and bicep curls then?

[izzygrant]

Jan 31

Worked with the Oly lifter I met at the workshop for a couple hours on my snatches and clean and jerks. She broke down my form and gave me some really helpful advice. Made some minor adjustments that fixed a lot of my problems especially with snatches. She's appalled by my program and putting me together some suggestions for a new one. I'm also going out to train with her club on Sunday.

Didn't have time for my squats. This has turned into pretty much completely a deload week. Back continuing to improve but still iffy. Been skipping cardio too.

Warmup
swimming, hot tub
stretching hammies/hip flexors
dynamic band shoulder stretches

Snatches
bar - hip snatches, snatch pull/hip snatch complex
some full snatches

Cleans
bar and 65, a bunch

Supps
AM: b complex, milk thistle, glucosamine, joint care+
PWO: Advil, bcaa's, C4, creatine
PM: fish oil, CLA, antiox, inflaheal, multi, glucosamine

[BrotherWolf]

I'm also going out to train with her club on Sunday.

Aww.. that's awesome

[FrmrHoss]

She's appalled by my program and putting me together some suggestions for a new one.

You don't say....

[arian11]

Did you do full snatches? With submaximal weight?

[izzygrant]

Aww.. that's awesome

Thanks! I'm excited for it. And nervous. They're really good.

You don't say....

Lol. Her biggest problem is that I do full snatches and clean & jerks most workouts. She wants me to split up the technical lifts most days - clean pulls, hang snatches, etc. She agrees I should squat every second day and she herself trains five days a week, and works up to daily maxes on usually two lifts/partials. So I suspect her fixes are by and large not what many people following this journal want to see. More of a change in the lifts I am doing.

Did you do full snatches? With submaximal weight?

Maybe. Just barely since my full snatch max is currently 50. What about it, *******?

[arian11]

Maybe. Just barely since my full snatch max is currently 50. What about it, *******?

Wanted to see how much she really knows. Because I've heard you shouldn't do full snatches with submaximal weight. It means you are purposely slowing down your second pull. Which is a no no.

[izzygrant]

Wanted to see how much she really knows. Because I've heard you shouldn't do full snatches with submaximal weight. It means you are purposely slowing down your second pull. Which is a no no.

When did you become a closet expert? At 5 lbs under max and with a back injury, there was no slowing of the second pull. Which is not nearly as defined right now as it should be - one of my problems was popping too low with the wrong angles and arching the bar out in front of me.

Granted I am probably strong enough to snatch more than 50. But such things are dangerous with no bumper plates when I miss the overhead lockout more than half the time.

edit: also that's ridiculous. you're supposed to do warm up sets with your max? strong trolling.

[BrotherWolf]

Lol. Her biggest problem is that I do full snatches and clean & jerks most workouts. She wants me to split up the technical lifts most days - clean pulls, hang snatches, etc. She agrees I should squat every second day and she herself trains five days a week, and works up to daily maxes on usually two lifts/partials. So I suspect her fixes are by and large not what many people following this journal want to see. More of a change in the lifts I am doing.

sounds reasonable .. fyi I was never opposed to the volume but your programming I suppose it's not the best as is
you'll make better progress with those changes for sure

[arian11]

When did you become a closet expert? At 5 lbs under max and with a back injury, there was no slowing of the second pull. Which is not nearly as defined right now as it should be - one of my problems was popping too low with the wrong angles and arching the bar out in front of me.

Granted I am probably strong enough to snatch more than 50. But such things are dangerous with no bumper plates when I miss the overhead lockout more than half the time.

edit: also that's ridiculous. you're supposed to do warm up sets with your max? strong trolling.

What if I told you there was this thing called muscle snatches and power snatches...

[izzygrant]

What if I told you there was this thing called muscle snatches and power snatches...

So Reza Zadeh is warming up just with muscle and power snatches in the back, right up until he walks on to the platform to do his competition lifts, hey? And I mean technically his first and second attempts aren't maxes, so he should be power snatching those too, right?

[austin.j.taylor]

What if I told you there was this thing called muscle snatches and power snatches...

I went out with her once and was scared and arroused all at the same time.

[austin.j.taylor]

So Reza Zadeh is warming up just with muscle and power snatches in the back, right up until he walks on to the platform to do his competition lifts, hey? And I mean technically his first and second attempts aren't maxes, so he should be power snatching those too, right?

Because you should totally be comparing yourself to the wr holder. Meanwhile I will set up my log pressing just like Zydrunas.

[arian11]

So Reza Zadeh is warming up just with muscle and power snatches in the back, right up until he walks on to the platform to do his competition lifts, hey? And I mean technically his first and second attempts aren't maxes, so he should be power snatching those too, right?

The reasoning why they have to do what they do may be different, but go to a powerlifting competition and watch an elite shirted bencher warm up. See how many times they actually touch their chest with the bar warming up. I bet you it is closer to 0, or 0, than the number you think.

EDIT:

More on this. Just like an elite shirted bencher might go from light weights on a 3 board to moderate weights with a 2 board to heavy weights with a 1 board to hopefully finally touching on the platform, an olympic lifter can go from muscle snatches with light weights to power snatches with moderate weight to full snatches with maximal weight. And while I have named them 3 different things, they aren't necessarily completely distinct entities. You can do a power snatch to a certain depth with 135 then a power snatch to slightly lower depth with 155 and so on and so on. The depth is dictated by the minimum distance needed to drop to finish the snatch. But the second pull is always maximum.

[izzygrant]

sounds reasonable .. fyi I was never opposed to the volume but your programming I suppose it's not the best as is
you'll make better progress with those changes for sure

I hope so. Not that progress has been bad, all things considered; but I'm impatient.

I went out with her once and was scared and arroused all at the same time.

strong = sexy

Because you should totally be comparing yourself to the wr holder. Meanwhile I will set up my log pressing just like Zydrunas.

Not at all. I was merely testing the logical coherence of arian's proposition by developing it through to its furthest conclusion.

The reasoning why they have to do what they do may be different, but go to a powerlifting competition and watch an elite shirted bencher warm up. See how many times they actually touch their chest with the bar warming up. I bet you it is closer to 0, or 0, than the number you think.

EDIT:

More on this. Just like an elite shirted bencher might go from light weights on a 3 board to moderate weights with a 2 board to heavy weights with a 1 board to hopefully finally touching on the platform, an olympic lifter can go from muscle snatches with light weights to power snatches with moderate weight to full snatches with maximal weight. And while I have named them 3 different things, they aren't necessarily completely distinct entities. You can do a power snatch to a certain depth with 135 then a power snatch to slightly lower depth with 155 and so on and so on. The depth is dictated by the minimum distance needed to drop to finish the snatch. But the second pull is always maximum.

I don't know anything about equipped powerlifting and assumed nothing about their warmup. Nor can I comment on the comparative validity of boards metaphor. It's true that you can perform a similar movement with varying catch heights between muscle, power and full snatch. But they are ultimately different lifts. And it's generally accepted that maximum speed on the second pull is reached when working with 85% of one's maximal weight on the full snatch (closer to 90% on power given the change in mechanics of the lift, and assuming we are talking about triple extension and not catapult). Of course, the novice lifter presents special problems because it's impossible to determine what 100% is when technique issues prevent complete lifts. Also, technique work with submaximal weight is often prescribed as the cure for a tendency to explode too early and cut the second pull short, a common problem and obviously one that has to be fixed before any concern with small variations in percentages of the speed of the second pull. You have to have one before you can make it faster.

Together, these two things dictate that 60-85% is the ideal weight range for learning the full snatch. At the lower range you catch it high and ride it down to learn the lift. Once you hit 85% you are second pulling at full speed. Is riding the lift down a bad habit for technically advanced weightlifters? Yep. Am I one yet? Nope. People are also a lot more up in arms about this than they used to be due to the advent of catapult and the subversive argument that too much extension is causing lifters to get caught high.

Finally, there's practical constraints. 85% for me would probably be about 40lbs. But I don't have access to a women's bar so I have to suck it up and work with 45, which hasn't helped my learning curve any. Would it be better for me to work with 60lbs? Well, it would force me to address some of my pull issues because I'd have to get under the bar rather than cheating it up. But then I'd miss lockout, drop it behind me, scare myself, and injure or kill myself/morons at the Y. So what I really should be doing is breaking down the lift into snatch deadlifts with heavy weight, snatch high pulls with slightly less heavy weight, and hang/hip snatches with light weight, plus OH squats and btn snatch grip presses in OH squat. Hence the orders to change my program. And that way, the amount of time the novice lifter spends actually performing the entire full snatch movement with weight under 85% is limited.

Inb4 tl;dr, no cliffs, op is a ******* - you asked.

[izzygrant]

Feb 1

So the issue with my back is likely transverse abdominis overuse/fatigue. Definitely should not have pushed it. It is improving but I will bail on Sunday if I'm not considerably better. The invitation is standing and it's not worth lowering my threshold for reinjury (any further).

Squats were disappointingly hard, given that I've hardly done any real lifting this week and cut out almost all my cardio. Cals have probably been about 2300/day. Really bad session.

Warmup
whirlpool, swimming
hammy, hip, glute stretches
dynamic band shoulder stretches

High Bar Back Squats
45 x8
65 x8
80 x8
95 x6 damn heavy
105 x5
115 x3 suspected high, watched video, confirmed parallel squats of peace fuuuuuuu
95 x8
95 x6

Front Squats
55 x6
65 x6
85 x4
95 x1 - hard and ugly as sh!t, might have been high, should not have done

Barbell Hip Thrusts
50 x30, 1 sec pauses at lockout

Lower Body Rehab
clamshells 12 x3
lying abduction 12 x3

Shoulder Rehab
band pull aparts
btn band pull aparts
band external rotation

Cardio & Mobility
3 miles easy pace
glute/hammy/piri/quad/calf stretches

Supps
AM: b complex, glucosamine, joint+
PWO: bcaa's, c4, creatine
PM: fish oil, CLA, antiox, inflaheal, multi

[arian11]

I don't know anything about equipped powerlifting and assumed nothing about their warmup. Nor can I comment on the comparative validity of boards metaphor. It's true that you can perform a similar movement with varying catch heights between muscle, power and full snatch. But they are ultimately different lifts. And it's generally accepted that maximum speed on the second pull is reached when working with 85% of one's maximal weight on the full snatch (closer to 90% on power given the change in mechanics of the lift, and assuming we are talking about triple extension and not catapult). Of course, the novice lifter presents special problems because it's impossible to determine what 100% is when technique issues prevent complete lifts. Also, technique work with submaximal weight is often prescribed as the cure for a tendency to explode too early and cut the second pull short, a common problem and obviously one that has to be fixed before any concern with small variations in percentages of the speed of the second pull. You have to have one before you can make it faster.

Together, these two things dictate that 60-85% is the ideal weight range for learning the full snatch. At the lower range you catch it high and ride it down to learn the lift. Once you hit 85% you are second pulling at full speed. Is riding the lift down a bad habit for technically advanced weightlifters? Yep. Am I one yet? Nope. People are also a lot more up in arms about this than they used to be due to the advent of catapult and the subversive argument that too much extension is causing lifters to get caught high.

Finally, there's practical constraints. 85% for me would probably be about 40lbs. But I don't have access to a women's bar so I have to suck it up and work with 45, which hasn't helped my learning curve any. Would it be better for me to work with 60lbs? Well, it would force me to address some of my pull issues because I'd have to get under the bar rather than cheating it up. But then I'd miss lockout, drop it behind me, scare myself, and injure or kill myself/morons at the Y. So what I really should be doing is breaking down the lift into snatch deadlifts with heavy weight, snatch high pulls with slightly less heavy weight, and hang/hip snatches with light weight, plus OH squats and btn snatch grip presses in OH squat. Hence the orders to change my program. And that way, the amount of time the novice lifter spends actually performing the entire full snatch movement with weight under 85% is limited.

Inb4 tl;dr, no cliffs, op is a ******* - you asked.

-Didn't say you were assuming about geared lifting, just using it as an example of a similar situation where one might warm up differently in the back room compared to what they do on the platform.
-Catching it high and riding it down is different than cutting your second pull in order to catch it in the bottom position.
-You need to find a better gym. You know, one with bumper plates. You can also look into buying your own women's bar and storing it in the gym. You can also see if there is a straight curl bar somewhere else in the gym that is usually 15-25lbs and see if it is long enough for your snatch grip.
-This is why I'm subscribed to wakechica's log and not yours.

[FrmrHoss]

Posts like those make me realize I don't know **** about oly lifting.....

[izzygrant]

-Didn't say you were assuming about geared lifting, just using it as an example of a similar situation where one might warm up differently in the back room compared to what they do on the platform.
-Catching it high and riding it down is different than cutting your second pull in order to catch it in the bottom position.
-You need to find a better gym. You know, one with bumper plates. You can also look into buying your own women's bar and storing it in the gym. You can also see if there is a straight curl bar somewhere else in the gym that is usually 15-25lbs and see if it is long enough for your snatch grip.
-This is why I'm subscribed to wakechica's log and not yours.

- ok.
- i thought you were complaining about purposely slowing down the second pull in order not to catch it high.
- i know. sure, that will go over well with the "squat racks and platforms are one piece of equipment" YMCA. no, they aren't long enough, I'm 5'9 not a womanlet.
- you're really mean. why are you so mean to me

[arian11]

- ok.
- i thought you were complaining about purposely slowing down the second pull in order not to catch it high.
- i know. sure, that will go over well with the "squat racks and platforms are one piece of equipment" YMCA. no, they aren't long enough, I'm 5'9 not a womanlet.
- you're really mean. why are you so mean to me

Yes. And making the 2nd pull as fast as possible, catching it high, then dropping down and doing an overhead squat is different than making the 2nd pull slow, and catching it in an overhead squat position at the bottom. What part do you not get blondie?