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  1. #1
    Registered User BleedGreen20's Avatar
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    Stuff I should be doing for football?

    Recently I made a post about picking a lifting program and you guys recommended Bill Starr 5x5. So far so good although I'm a little concerned about there being only 3 lifts a day but that's another topic. Basically I want to put in the work but I just flat out don't know what to do. I've been jogging after lifts and working my core with crunches six inches etc. but all said and done I've been done lifting in only like 30 minutes and on my way home after 1 to 1.5 hours. I don't feel like I'm doing enough. I'm currently a sophomore in high school so I'd like to work real hard this off season and have a good junior year. I'm a wr/rb/cb I weigh 140 lbs I'm 5'5 I bench 145 squat 2 plates semi-easily (never tried my max squat) and clean 115 to 125 for 5x5. My 40 was timed perhaps inaccurately at 4.8 but I do play pretty fast so I'm not sure. I do parisi speed school in spring. I've been thinking of doing plyos but I'm not sure where I'd find a program.
    (Sorry for the lack of commas by the way my comma key is broken)
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  2. #2
    RollBreadNation RollTideNation's Avatar
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    There are several things to address...

    1. Stop jogging for football. It literally does no good. That is training a different energy system, which isn't needed for football. Jogging is aerobic and football is heavily alactic. Joe Defranco wrote a conditioning article a while back.
    2. For your program, I'd suggest either a 5x5 routine, westside for skinny bastards 3, Elliott Hulse strength/size template, or I can give you my current lifting routine. Just say the word and I'll post. You need to have some plyometrics in there as well as some dynamic stretching. Very important.
    3. For core work, I like roll outs, russian twists, planks, side planks, and hanging leg raises.
    4. You need to be eating a lot to keep the weight on and you might even need to gain some.
    5. Don't do 5x5 cleans. You will see better results from doing lower reps on explosive lifts.

    To get faster, you need to increase strength and rate of force development. Going heavy and progressing on the compounds is the key to strength. For RFD, you need to be doing explosive exercises like jumps, throws, med ball slams, olympic lifts, tire flips, anything that requires an explosion. I don't use olympic lifts very often because it can be difficult to master the form. Jumping, tire flipping, and med ball throws/slams are perfect. Easy to grasp the form yet extremely effective. You will also find that, you guessed it, sprinting will make you faster. Flat unresisted and also do some resisted sprints like hills, prowler, or sled.

    Start working on agility as well. Cone drills and ladders are my favorites.

    Lastly, work on footwork and technique. Hope this helps!
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  3. #3
    Registered User BleedGreen20's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RollTideNation View Post
    There are several things to address...

    1. Stop jogging for football. It literally does no good. That is training a different energy system, which isn't needed for football. Jogging is aerobic and football is heavily alactic. Joe Defranco wrote a conditioning article a while back.
    2. For your program, I'd suggest either a 5x5 routine, westside for skinny bastards 3, Elliott Hulse strength/size template, or I can give you my current lifting routine. Just say the word and I'll post. You need to have some plyometrics in there as well as some dynamic stretching. Very important.
    3. For core work, I like roll outs, russian twists, planks, side planks, and hanging leg raises.
    4. You need to be eating a lot to keep the weight on and you might even need to gain some.
    5. Don't do 5x5 cleans. You will see better results from doing lower reps on explosive lifts.

    To get faster, you need to increase strength and rate of force development. Going heavy and progressing on the compounds is the key to strength. For RFD, you need to be doing explosive exercises like jumps, throws, med ball slams, olympic lifts, tire flips, anything that requires an explosion. I don't use olympic lifts very often because it can be difficult to master the form. Jumping, tire flipping, and med ball throws/slams are perfect. Easy to grasp the form yet extremely effective. You will also find that, you guessed it, sprinting will make you faster. Flat unresisted and also do some resisted sprints like hills, prowler, or sled.

    Start working on agility as well. Cone drills and ladders are my favorites.

    Lastly, work on footwork and technique. Hope this helps!
    My conditioning routine isn't really "jogging," I run (fast pace) from my school to a parking garage which is no further than a mile away and mostly uphill, run up the staircase (8 or 16 floors depending on how you look at it) then down the parking garage the way cars go up and down, and repeat, then run at a fast pace back to my school a different route which is mostly uphill. Anyway, I'll try to jog less, the only reason I really run in the first place is to get to the parking garage and everywhere I run is uphill if that makes a difference. I guess this makes sense because I've always struggled with running long distances and even far sprints (I'm really bad at the 200m) but I can always make it through a football game playing corner and rb/wr both ways and on special teams with like no trouble at all. My mile time would be flat out garbage, though.
    For lifting I'm currently following Bill Starr's 5x5 pretty closely, including the 5x5 clean part. Would it be better for me to do like 3x3? When I 5x5, I use 35's on each side at the moment (was higher before football season), but when I 3x3 I use 45's or maybe a little more. I would appreciate if you could post your custom program so I'd have a little bit better of an idea of what you're recommending.
    I know I need plyometrics but I don't really know what I'm doing. That applies to everything else, too, I really have no clue what I'm doing. If you could direct me where to look for a plyo routine, I'd appreciate it.
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  4. #4
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    I agree with RollTideNation with jogging/running especially, yeah you can do it but focus on more sprints, plyos, cones type stuff and also work on sport specific drills that you always do but make you better. Include agility ladder if able works wonders for you.
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  5. #5
    RollBreadNation RollTideNation's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BleedGreen20 View Post
    My conditioning routine isn't really "jogging," I run (fast pace) from my school to a parking garage which is no further than a mile away and mostly uphill, run up the staircase (8 or 16 floors depending on how you look at it) then down the parking garage the way cars go up and down, and repeat, then run at a fast pace back to my school a different route which is mostly uphill. Anyway, I'll try to jog less, the only reason I really run in the first place is to get to the parking garage and everywhere I run is uphill if that makes a difference. I guess this makes sense because I've always struggled with running long distances and even far sprints (I'm really bad at the 200m) but I can always make it through a football game playing corner and rb/wr both ways and on special teams with like no trouble at all. My mile time would be flat out garbage, though.
    For lifting I'm currently following Bill Starr's 5x5 pretty closely, including the 5x5 clean part. Would it be better for me to do like 3x3? When I 5x5, I use 35's on each side at the moment (was higher before football season), but when I 3x3 I use 45's or maybe a little more. I would appreciate if you could post your custom program so I'd have a little bit better of an idea of what you're recommending.
    I know I need plyometrics but I don't really know what I'm doing. That applies to everything else, too, I really have no clue what I'm doing. If you could direct me where to look for a plyo routine, I'd appreciate it.
    Even if it's a fast paced run, you are still going lactic and it's possible you are entering the aerobic zone. Football is heavily alactic and sometimes hits the lactic zone but not often by any means. Alactic means you are doing intense work for less than 10sec. Sled drags, hills, prowlers, tire flips, intense sessions of sledgehammer GPP, and old fashioned sprints are your best friends. Running stairs is a good choice. No worries, I suck big time at anything over 100yds and my mile time would be difficult to even think about

    For simplicity, you should probably just stick with the ramped 5x5 cleans. If you want to, switch to like 6x2 or 5x3. Ramped as well.

    Here's my routine:
    2 workouts done on mon wed fri ABA BAB

    Workout A
    Box squat 3x3
    Bench 3x5
    DB shoulder press 3x8
    Horizontal pull (row) 5x6-12
    Posterior chain 3x5-10
    Shrugs 3x8
    Core 3 sets

    Workout B
    Deads 3x3
    Push press 4x3
    DB bench or weighted push ups 3x8/3x8-20 (for Rep Effort push ups)
    Chin/pull up 3x6-12
    Unilateral leg exercise 3x5
    Rear delt 3x8
    Core 3 sets

    I add in bicep, tricep, grip, and other work when I need to work on a weak link.

    Tues/thur is when I do plyo, agility, and conditioning. Plyo includes various jumps, med ball throws/slams, clap push ups, sandbag throws over shoulder, band punches, etc.

    For plyometrics, keep the reps low. I never go above 5. The key is to go as hard as possible, being fatigued keeps you from doing that. There is no best form of plyo... They will all make you more explosive. I would say the money exercises are jumps and throws.

    Hope this helps
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  6. #6
    Registered User BleedGreen20's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RollTideNation View Post
    Even if it's a fast paced run, you are still going lactic and it's possible you are entering the aerobic zone. Football is heavily alactic and sometimes hits the lactic zone but not often by any means. Alactic means you are doing intense work for less than 10sec. Sled drags, hills, prowlers, tire flips, intense sessions of sledgehammer GPP, and old fashioned sprints are your best friends. Running stairs is a good choice. No worries, I suck big time at anything over 100yds and my mile time would be difficult to even think about

    For simplicity, you should probably just stick with the ramped 5x5 cleans. If you want to, switch to like 6x2 or 5x3. Ramped as well.

    Here's my routine:
    2 workouts done on mon wed fri ABA BAB

    Workout A
    Box squat 3x3
    Bench 3x5
    DB shoulder press 3x8
    Horizontal pull (row) 5x6-12
    Posterior chain 3x5-10
    Shrugs 3x8
    Core 3 sets

    Workout B
    Deads 3x3
    Push press 4x3
    DB bench or weighted push ups 3x8/3x8-20 (for Rep Effort push ups)
    Chin/pull up 3x6-12
    Unilateral leg exercise 3x5
    Rear delt 3x8
    Core 3 sets

    I add in bicep, tricep, grip, and other work when I need to work on a weak link.

    Tues/thur is when I do plyo, agility, and conditioning. Plyo includes various jumps, med ball throws/slams, clap push ups, sandbag throws over shoulder, band punches, etc.

    For plyometrics, keep the reps low. I never go above 5. The key is to go as hard as possible, being fatigued keeps you from doing that. There is no best form of plyo... They will all make you more explosive. I would say the money exercises are jumps and throws.

    Hope this helps
    Ok, it does make sense and I have learned a little about aerobic vs anaerobic exercise from health class/biology class, I guess paying attention in biology was useful after all. Does ramped vs unramped make a huge different? I try to do my squats ramped (add 10 lbs each set) and bench ramped (add 5 lbs each set) but I keep my 5x5 cleans unramped. I guess I could try doing it ramped but I think I would end up failing on the 5th and even 4th set sometimes.

    I found this for a plyo workout and it seems like it matches what you say:
    biggerfasterstronger[dotcom]/uploads/Plyometric%20Program.pdf

    My school does the Bigger Faster Stronger lifting program in the summer so maybe it corresponds with that. Anyway, thanks for all of the help so far, I really appreciate it.
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  7. #7
    Registered User daxpwn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BleedGreen20 View Post
    Recently I made a post about picking a lifting program and you guys recommended Bill Starr 5x5. So far so good although I'm a little concerned about there being only 3 lifts a day but that's another topic. Basically I want to put in the work but I just flat out don't know what to do. I've been jogging after lifts and working my core with crunches six inches etc. but all said and done I've been done lifting in only like 30 minutes and on my way home after 1 to 1.5 hours. I don't feel like I'm doing enough. I'm currently a sophomore in high school so I'd like to work real hard this off season and have a good junior year. I'm a wr/rb/cb I weigh 140 lbs I'm 5'5 I bench 145 squat 2 plates semi-easily (never tried my max squat) and clean 115 to 125 for 5x5. My 40 was timed perhaps inaccurately at 4.8 but I do play pretty fast so I'm not sure. I do parisi speed school in spring. I've been thinking of doing plyos but I'm not sure where I'd find a program.
    (Sorry for the lack of commas by the way my comma key is broken)
    this is a great picture for what you're asking
    Attached Images
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  8. #8
    Registered User yettiatcpg's Avatar
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    as soon as football was over my son started training for track. he throws shot and disc and does the 4 x 100 relays. as an OL he is fast. he runs a 4:7 40 and has to keep fit by running. this year I expect him to set some records for his sophomore year. he was 6" short of making states last year in shot put. he is already throwing 7' past that.
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    the key is finding a mild hill 4-6% grade approx 300 feet each way. 1 set is two trips up and back with the plate in a different position each pass. switching side every other set on the start.
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  9. #9
    Registered User BleedGreen20's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by daxpwn View Post
    this is a great picture for what you're asking
    Sweet, so following that picture all of the exercises in the first 4 columns would help me the most. Good stuff.
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  10. #10
    Registered User BleedGreen20's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by yettiatcpg View Post
    as soon as football was over my son started training for track. he throws shot and disc and does the 4 x 100 relays. as an OL he is fast. he runs a 4:7 40 and has to keep fit by running. this year I expect him to set some records for his sophomore year. he was 6" short of making states last year in shot put. he is already throwing 7' past that.
    Damn, that's .1 faster than what I ran last summer and I'm a WR, and I'm one of the faster players on the team at that.

    ----

    At the moment, indoor track is practicing outdoors and using the football field, but once the field is open (as winter gets colder) I'm going to start my sprints. Does a warm-up dynamic stretch, 400m jog, then 10x10m, 8x40m, and 2x100m sound good?

    By the way, I really appreciate all of the help so far. I'll get my sprints in 2-3 times a week, plyos 4-6 times, and of course my lift 3 times. Lots of good info in this thread.
    Last edited by BleedGreen20; 12-06-2012 at 09:40 PM.
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  11. #11
    RollBreadNation RollTideNation's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BleedGreen20 View Post
    Ok, it does make sense and I have learned a little about aerobic vs anaerobic exercise from health class/biology class, I guess paying attention in biology was useful after all. Does ramped vs unramped make a huge different? I try to do my squats ramped (add 10 lbs each set) and bench ramped (add 5 lbs each set) but I keep my 5x5 cleans unramped. I guess I could try doing it ramped but I think I would end up failing on the 5th and even 4th set sometimes.

    I found this for a plyo workout and it seems like it matches what you say:
    biggerfasterstronger[dotcom]/uploads/Plyometric%20Program.pdf

    My school does the Bigger Faster Stronger lifting program in the summer so maybe it corresponds with that. Anyway, thanks for all of the help so far, I really appreciate it.
    No problem buddy. I think it really depends on the program regarding ramped or non ramped. Usually, beginner programs will have sets across and intermediate/advanced routines will have ramped sets. Starr's routine is ramped so I'd go with that. I have found that ramped sets are good for athletes.

    I'll check out BFS when I have the chance. On a phone right now and I can't view it.
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